Google's new web browser

[jaehwan]

So Google is releasing its own web browser (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/business/AP-Google-Browser.html), called "Chrome."

I'm on a Mac now and so I can't try it out, but if anyone else does, please let me know how it works. I haven't seen a bad Google product yet...

[minbo]

Google is getting a little to big to "do no evil". I use their stuff, but I'm starting to get antsy about how much personal information they can and are amassing. Even if they never purposefully do any evil, and have policies and procedures in place to prevent employee abuse, they still can get legally compelled to disclose or correlate information, as they did in that youtube case. Personally I am drawing a line and capping the google products I knowingly use until they tighten up their privacy policies. Just because I'm paranoid, does not mean that they (not necessarily Google per se, but rogue employees, fishing expiditions from FBI ISP letters, etc) are not out to get me!

If you use gmail, they know every single person you send email to and receive email from, and have copies of every single email and gchat IM. They have every ip address you access gmail from, can correlate with cookies or ip addresses with their advertising analytics to get a lot of websites you visit or search from their search page and search terms. If you use Orkut, then they have even more personal information if you fill out your profile and add friends. If you use their online productivity suite, they have all those docs to analyze. Use their news aggregator, they correlate that with your ip and cookies and know what news you like. What images you like, what locations you map and get directions from/to...

[awong]

I've been worried about google for a while now too. Same reason why I havent entirely opened up on google android

[awong]

btw are there any questionable things in the terms of use in the EULA for google's software? I havent had the time to sit and read through it. I guess maybe I should.

[minbo]

There is nothing which alone is of concern. It's just the confluence of data makes the entire package increasingly suspect.

For example, Google pioneered the use of immortal cookies. The cookies are the "personal identifiers" in the search logs. Now it is common for all search vendors to use permanent cookies for identifying information. Google retains full raw search logs for 24 months. To appease the EU, they changed it to 18 months. After 18 months, they purge the "personal identifier" to anonymize their logs. Privacy advocates, and the EU believe that they can shorten it to 6 months and not loose much if any research capability to improve their search product. 6 months, 18 months, the cookie ID seems innocuous enough, but if you create a Google login for any of their other tools, you enter in all sorts of personal identifiers, name, address, birthdate, bank account, credit card numbers. While these truly personal identifiers are not kept in the same logs as the cookies, they "reserve the right" to combine the data, of course to provide you with better service. The same goes for usage patterns and information from their other services, such as google mail, their mapping programs, news aggregators, video feeds, social networking, etc. individually seem innocuous (well gmail is scary by itself), but with the reserved right to combine data across the products, looking at it as a whole is worth more than casual consideration.

Google successfully resisted a Federal supoena for search data information when the government wanted the data to research anti-porn laws. Google lost the case to protect it's data from media companies in the copyright infringement case (though the media companies gracefully allowed Google to anonymize the data they fowarded, the media companies did not need to do this). We have no idea if Google has been subject to FBI letters as those come with a gag order, and if they have been subject to such letters, if they resisted successfully or unsuccessfully or if they complied. For that matter, we have no idea how often Google has been served with subpoenas by the government in general or by lawyers in private litigation, nor do we know how they responded, because Google refuses to say if/when/how many/what happened, because they hold that it is standard industry practice to keep such information secret. But we do know that they have been served, and they have complied, at least in the China dissenters cases.

I'm not saying for people not to use Google products, I use them. I just try to be mindful of the possibilities, and that is causing me to slowly and intentionally use less of their services if I can find comparable service somewhere else.

[jaehwan]

There is nothing which alone is of concern. It's just the confluence of data makes the entire package increasingly suspect.

For example, Google pioneered the use of immortal cookies. The cookies are the "personal identifiers" in the search logs. Now it is common for all search vendors to use permanent cookies for identifying information. Google retains full raw search logs for 24 months. To appease the EU, they changed it to 18 months. After 18 months, they purge the "personal identifier" to anonymize their logs. Privacy advocates, and the EU believe that they can shorten it to 6 months and not loose much if any research capability to improve their search product. 6 months, 18 months, the cookie ID seems innocuous enough, but if you create a Google login for any of their other tools, you enter in all sorts of personal identifiers, name, address, birthdate, bank account, credit card numbers. While these truly personal identifiers are not kept in the same logs as the cookies, they "reserve the right" to combine the data, of course to provide you with better service. The same goes for usage patterns and information from their other services, such as google mail, their mapping programs, news aggregators, video feeds, social networking, etc. individually seem innocuous (well gmail is scary by itself), but with the reserved right to combine data across the products, looking at it as a whole is worth more than casual consideration.

Google successfully resisted a Federal supoena for search data information when the government wanted the data to research anti-porn laws. Google lost the case to protect it's data from media companies in the copyright infringement case (though the media companies gracefully allowed Google to anonymize the data they fowarded, the media companies did not need to do this). We have no idea if Google has been subject to FBI letters as those come with a gag order, and if they have been subject to such letters, if they resisted successfully or unsuccessfully or if they complied. For that matter, we have no idea how often Google has been served with subpoenas by the government in general or by lawyers in private litigation, nor do we know how they responded, because Google refuses to say if/when/how many/what happened, because they hold that it is standard industry practice to keep such information secret. But we do know that they have been served, and they have complied, at least in the China dissenters cases.

I'm not saying for people not to use Google products, I use them. I just try to be mindful of the possibilities, and that is causing me to slowly and intentionally use less of their services if I can find comparable service somewhere else.

That is some scary, scary stuff. That's actually why I stuck with yahoo mail, even though I got my first choice name with my google account. I also use yahoogroups, rather than Google's version.

The problem is, of course, that yahoo mail sucks. The search function, for example, pales in comparison to that of gmail. It's terrible. Sometimes I'll find stuff myself by sifting through my e-mail manually, and I'll wonder why the yahoo algorithm doesn't pick up the obvious. I don't think they've made any changes to yahoo mail for at least the past two or three years.

Google is definitely the dark shadow in the room. So good points, minbo. Even if I were not on Mac, I'd still stick with Firefox.

[minbo]

Speaking of gathering more information while improving service...

Picasa Refresh Brings Facial Recognition

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/02/AR2008090200873.html

I know some people love tagging things, but I don't want to or need to give Google any more personal networking info beyond email contacts!

[minbo]

Thought that this link was a humorous representation of why even though I do believe that Google still tries to follow their "do no evil" philosophy I'm increasingly wary of their monolithic data collection practices.

Yes, I do believe also that they do not have anything that can be remotely considered spyware in Android or Chrome, so they should be fairly innocuous to use.

http://gizmodo.com/5052578/how-android-will-help-google-profile-you

[jaehwan]

So I was interested in setting up Feedburner for my new personal blog, but I went to the Feedburner website and noticed that Google has acquired it. It may be the best RSS program out there, but still, it's Google. Am I being paranoid? I guess my old site was with blogger, which is also owned by Google, and so they probably already know everything about me. I also watch youtube all the time, which is also owned by Google. Shit, the more I think about it, the more I think the web is owned by Google...

Minbo, do you see any consequences from going through Feedburner? Google already has pictures of my house (and everyone else's house) on Google Maps, plus their cache has probably recorded everything that I've ever written on the web, so I'm wondering if they already have all the info on me that they need.

[nskripchun]

I already use Google Reader.

Guess I've sold my soul to Google, duh-dum!

[dage]

So I was interested in setting up Feedburner for my new personal blog, but I went to the Feedburner website and noticed that Google has acquired it. It may be the best RSS program out there, but still, it's Google. Am I being paranoid?

I feel the same way. I'm a little hesitant to let Google know that much about me.

I know they say they anonymize the IP and stuff but I remember the EU recently said that Google wasn't doing enough.

Also, I didn't like how Chrome installs an auto-update process that runs on startup. And besides, without my Firefox plugins there's no way Chrome would work for me.

If you just want to test it out, use Altiris SVS to install it as a virtual layer. Then you can play around with it all you want without worrying about the junk it installs on your system.

[jaehwan]

Okay, they're using users' searches to predict flu outbreaks. The takeover has advanced one more step:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/technology/internet/12flu.html

Oh, and I'm guilty of aiding and abeting because because I now have Google Analytics AND Feedburner on my personal blog...