The root of 99.99% of the "race problems" Asians face..

[ktkbs]

Are due to Asians not being powerful enough. IMO most of the problems will go away once Asians are strong and independent. I'm not saying the idiots will stop being jackasses, but you just won't have to be near them anymore. So work hard, take care of yourself and buy stuff made by Asian people.

What do you think?

[nightshade]

Are due to Asians not being powerful enough. IMO most of the problems will go away once Asians are strong and independent. I'm not saying the idiots will stop being jackasses, but you just won't have to be near them anymore. So work hard, take care of yourself and buy stuff made by Asian people.

What do you think?

Just because you're weak, doesn't mean the rest of us are weak too.

[ktkbs]

Fight the man sister. Your spunk and take-no-shit-from-anyone (especially on the internet!) attitude is going to influence geopolitics and the world economy.

[nightshade]

Fight the man sister. Your spunk and take-no-shit-from-anyone (especially on the internet!) attitude is going to influence geopolitics and the world economy.

You're the one who came up with the whiny first post. I'm just holding you to standards that you set yourself, wherein you called other people out for being whiners.

[ktkbs]

... wow, suggesting economic common sense and self-improvement is whining now.

look, I have lots of e-cred on other websites and lots of posts so I'm automatically cool and awesome like you.

maybe I can get an avatar to increase my coolness so you can stop raising your blood pressure by being a douchebag on the internet?

[nightshade]

... wow, suggesting economic common sense and self-improvement is whining now.

look, I have lots of e-cred on other websites and lots of posts so I'm automatically cool and awesome like you.

maybe I can get an avatar to increase my coolness so you can stop raising your blood pressure by being a douchebag on the internet?

Actually, I have low blood pressure, so really, no raising of blood pressure here. And I love how you talk about the Internets on the Internets. How weaksauce.

No one is claiming to be cool but you. This is the fucking Internet and we're expressing opinions. I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt.

P.S. The whining was in your first post. Your second post in this thread is called sarcasm. Find the right terminology.

[ktkbs]

How dare you flaunt our unwritten rules and conventions, newcomer! Now I must put you in your place with expletives and angst. Hopefully someone with a bigger post count will happen by and reward me with delicious approval.

[nightshade]

How dare you flaunt our unwritten rules and conventions, newcomer! Now I must put you in your place with expletives and angst. Hopefully someone with a bigger post count will happen by and reward me with delicious approval.

See, there's the sarcasm again--you're getting quite good at it.

Are your putdowns so pathetic that they have to go back to talking about the Internets? Because that's just seriously pathetic. This is a forum, not some place to seek approval.

[Makulita]

... Can we all get off each other's e-nuts on our e-douchebaggery?

All that snobby snark about omg liek ur so perceptive taht u saw thru mai personalitee on teh internetz is fucking tired.

Here, here, look everyone:

Shit Everyone Fucking Knows Already

- The Internet makes you talk like an asshole

- The Internet can foster elitist hierarchies, especially on vB message boards.

- The Internet makes it harder for you to backpedal because all the shit you talk is saved in the cache.

- The Internet provides funny image macros and memes that can be used to substitute for typed out responses.

- "Arguing on the Internet is like being in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded." <--- If you've been "on the internet" for two years or circa 1990s this adage is fucking OLD but if you're losing your argument but haven't yet regressed to flinging insults as a last-ditch attempt don't fucking bring it up, weaksauce motherfuckers.

---

There, you bitches. No more fucking brownie points for pointing this shit out. Ooh, 44s has a social inner circle/cool kids/old guard-- who the fuck doesn't? And since we're talking oldschool, there have been many, many people who've pointed this shit out already in a wittier manner before any of us could even begin to misspell words intentionally. There, I've officially fucking ruined your shit, fucking biters.

[ktkbs]

Putdowns? I'm not here to pick a fight with someone I don't know anything about.

Shit Everyone Fucking Knows Already

You are gay and a virgin and live in your mother's basement!

[nightshade]

You are gay and a virgin and live in your mother's basement!

Haha, on that stellar note, I think I'll go back to work. Maybe eat some dinner. Sit on the back porch and have a martini.

[Makulita]

You are gay and a virgin and live in your mother's basement!

^ UR DOIN IT WRONG.

See, that's a meme response. btw fyi lol noob

[ktkbs]

oh yeah, you might have the larger post count but I am too busy dating supermodels

[ZhuBaJie]

what is this thread about?

[Makulita]

pwnage, mostly ktkbs' pwnage.

laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawlz

[King4aDay]

what is this thread about?

supermodels...

[nightshade]

supermodels...

I think it's supermodels, not burgers, that keep us segregated.

Like this chick. She's just making all of us look short.

http://i.models.com/model_culture/50topmodels/images/djn.i%20v.jpg

[ZhuBaJie]

supermodels...

in that case...
http://www.peoples.ru/art/fashion/mannequin/adriana_lima/lima_adriana2.jpg

[King4aDay]

[QUOTE=nightshade;43400]I think it's supermodels, not burgers, that keep us segregated.

Like this chick. She's just making all of us look short.


Damn them all!

The real "model" minority.

[ktkbs]

what is this thread about?

All I'm saying is that attempting to reconcile with not only whites but blacks and others is a waste of time in America. It's better to just self-segregate as much as possible.

Or maybe I am just deranged.

Halp me, wise ones.

[King4aDay]

All I'm saying is that attempting to reconcile with not only whites but blacks and others is a waste of time in America. It's better to just self-segregate as much as possible.

Or maybe I am just deranged.

Halp me, wise ones.

Do you not have any White, Black, or Hispanic friends?

[xian]

I feel dumber for having read this.

People of color share the same issues, they are just manifested differently. Self-segregating was tried for the first century and a half. That didn't work out so hot.

[mojorider]

sorry, i don't believe in self-segregation and being isolated. i'd much rather engage in the greater world around me. how can the greater world know us if you don't get out there and shatter stereotypes?

true, while we're not responsible for other people's education, the fact that we engage with the predominant culture at large goes a long way in destroying stereotypes when they find out your parents don't own a store or a restaurant, or that you don't speak an Asian language, you grew up speaking English, or that you were a liberal arts major and not a math and/or science major, that you participate in sports, etc...and even if some of the stereotypes are kind of true to your own life and family experience, hell, at least they can see you're MORE than just that, that you're a human being, worthy of respect and a decent life if you interact and they get to know you. By engaging, and letting people other than Asians know us, we show that we're just like anyone else.

[RebelAzn]

All I'm saying is that attempting to reconcile with not only whites but blacks and others is a waste of time in America. It's better to just self-segregate as much as possible.

Or maybe I am just deranged.

Halp me, wise ones.

Dude we live in America. Don't u think it is a little difficult to segregate since we are the minority?

Do you want China to take on that mentality? Do we want another Japanese style imperialism like WWII where they are the chosen race that should conquer earth? Do you think there might be easier ways to demand equality vs. many more death?

[nightshade]

sorry, i don't believe in self-segregation and being isolated. i'd much rather engage in the greater world around me. how can the greater world know us if you don't get out there and shatter stereotypes?

true, while we're not responsible for other people's education, the fact that we engage with the predominant culture at large goes a long way in destroying stereotypes when they find out your parents don't own a store or a restaurant, or that you don't speak an Asian language, you grew up speaking English, or that you were a liberal arts major and not a math and/or science major, that you participate in sports, etc...and even if some of the stereotypes are kind of true to your own life and family experience, hell, at least they can see you're MORE than just that, that you're a human being, worthy of respect and a decent life if you interact and they get to know you. By engaging, and letting people other than Asians know us, we show that we're just like anyone else.

While I agree that self-segregation is some stupid shit, the stuff that you listed is...well, kind of fucked up. How is it a good thing to be seen as "more than" someone who can speak an Asian language? And why do we have to prove anything to anyone? This sounds like a monkey dance for white people.

[jaehwan]

While I agree that self-segregation is some stupid shit, the stuff that you listed is...well, kind of fucked up. How is it a good thing to be seen as "more than" someone who can speak an Asian language? And why do we have to prove anything to anyone? This sounds like a monkey dance for white people.

I'd agree with mojo in this case. There is, of course, nothing wrong with speaking English, owning a restaurant, etc. But if you're interacting with people, it also does serve a good social function to show the diversity--not everyone fits into a certain category.

I remember reading about how Joe Louis's manager told him that he was never allowed to be photographed eating fried chicken or dating white women. It's extreme, but it makes a point. And let's look at it historically--using this method, Joe Louis was very effective at destroying the stereotypes of his time. He showed that he was more than the stereotypes by avoiding the stereotypes. It's somewhat related to the "Rule of the First":

http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/05/13/rule-of-the-first/

[nightshade]

OK, you guys can have the Jessica Alba WE DON'T SPEAK MEXICAN school of being American. I have to admit, I guess I just don't get it because I'm not American and I haven't had to face the pressure of being OMG NOES, I DON'T SPEAK AN ASIAN LANGUAGE BECAUSE I'M JUST LIKE YOUS.

But seriously, that shit borders on self-hate, which is why I mentioned it as being fucked up.

[xian]

I see where you are coming from Mojo, but it's a lot more effective to emphasize WHERE the stereotypes come from and WHY they exist...

My family first came the U.S. 6 generations ago, but it's no coincidence that I'm only the second generation born here (my mother was born less than a week off the boat).

Or take professions--it's not like Asian Americans chose to only own restaurants and laundries--white folks weren't exactly setting up equal employment programs...

[ktkbs]

Do you not have any White, Black, or Hispanic friends?

Yeah, quite a few. Personally I would miss them, but on principle you can find friends of the same race too.

Self-segregating was tried for the first century and a half. That didn't work out so hot.

Things have changed since then.. theoretically you could live just fine never leaving the city you were born in now. That and minority populations were relatively smaller back then.

Do you want China to take on that mentality? Do we want another Japanese style imperialism like WWII where they are the chosen race that should conquer earth? Do you think there might be easier ways to demand equality vs. many more death?

False dichotomy imo. Not being multiracial =/= not being multicultural or being racist and imperialist. Modern day Japan does that alright, and despite the occasional sensationalist horror stories the racism isn't that bad there.

While I agree that self-segregation is some stupid shit

How though? Multiculturalism actually seems to work out the best when each component group has some kind of ethnic enclave they can retreat into when they're sick of dealing with another group's problems. This is what they have in Singapore to some extent; they do intermingle a bit but they are also not entirely "integrated".

[King4aDay]

Yeah, quite a few. Personally I would miss them, but on principle you can find friends of the same race too.

It depends on how you define friendship. None of my own friends can be replaced. And loosing all of my non-Black friends (on principle) would be personally disastrous to me.

Multiculturalism actually seems to work out the best when each component group has some kind of ethnic enclave they can retreat into when they're sick of dealing with another group's problems

Yes, but what do you do when you're sick of dealing with the problems of people with a shoe size larger than size 10? And how do you insulate yourself from the problems of people with long hair? How about a gender enclave, and one for every religion too? We'd need an enclave for tall people who are sick of dealing with the problems of short people and vice versa. One enclave for the educated and one for the ignorant. How about an enclave for the disabled???

You see my point? There are hundreds, if not thousands of ways for human beings to divide themselves into sub groups or "mini cultures." All Asians don't get along with each other, neither do all Whites, Blacks, or Hispanics.
But once you start drawing the lines, who gets to say where the divisions finally stop?

[ZhuBaJie]

ok, you can say what you will about self-segregation, but it already happens with Asians and Latinos. any city where there're large populations of Asians and Latinos, there are Asian neighbourhoods and Latino neighbourhoods. with blacks and whites, i suspect it has more to do with economics.

i don't know about anybody else, but i enjoy going to an Asian neighbourhood where all the stores and restaurants i like are there, where i can speak Chinese to get around, where i don't have to deal with white people.

[King4aDay]

Yeah, that's the thing... I enjoy it too (except that I don't speak Mandarin). And there's the rub, will the desegregation of peoples, customs, and thought, ultimately destroy the worldwide diversity of the cultures? I hope not.

I think that there must be a way to preserve both, but I confess that I'm not sure what it is. I do think that it's an important thing to work out, though.

[xian]

ok, you can say what you will about self-segregation, but it already happens with Asians and Latinos. any city where there're large populations of Asians and Latinos, there are Asian neighbourhoods and Latino neighbourhoods. with blacks and whites, i suspect it has more to do with economics.

i don't know about anybody else, but i enjoy going to an Asian neighbourhood where all the stores and restaurants i like are there, where i can speak Chinese to get around, where i don't have to deal with white people.

I agree with this almost entirely--I just think it's probably worth considering where ethnic enclaves began--enforced real estate and school discrimination along with racist immigration and citizenship laws that have broken down over the years, but still remain in some forms.

When someone chooses to live in Little Village, it's unclear where doing it to be around those who share their cultural background ends and where doing it to not be around those who would attack their cultural background in a bigoted way ends.

[ktkbs]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of ways for human beings to divide themselves into sub groups or "mini cultures."

That's essentially the story of modern nationhood.

[King4aDay]

That's essentially the story of modern nationhood.

Alas that has been.

But again, there are some differences in the world today. The fact that you and I are able to even have this discussion in this way is progress. I pay my internet fee of $22.00 per month and I can talk to any english speaker around the world. I can visit websites and gain information from real people (not government officials). Not only that, but the relative cost of travel is much lower than it had been for recent generations. I can visit Patagonia, I can fly to Madagascar, my Grandfather couldn't. He couldn't afford it.

These are not "small changes." The world is much smaller than it has ever been and the amount of interaction is much more prevalent. There simply is no way to go back to time when we were all listening to "our own" music and reading "our own" books, or watching "our own films." etc.

Worldwide cultural interaction is out of the proverbial box and in my humble opinion, it will be better to acclimate to the new environment as fully as possible rather than withdrawing into the old safer environment. Not a judgement, just an opinion, mind you.

[ktkbs]

I pay my internet fee of $22.00 per month and I can talk to any english speaker around the world.

What's funny is that the internet is exactly what makes me doubt multiculturalism and this so-called "global culture" (more like mass produced crap seen through a white worldview).

Without it I wouldn't have access to so many damning statistics.

[King4aDay]

What's funny is that the internet is exactly what makes me doubt multiculturalism and this so-called "global culture" (more like mass produced crap seen through a white worldview).

Without it I wouldn't have access to so many damning statistics.

Haha... Just think of it as a University library. It just depends on where you look.

[ZhuBaJie]

Yeah, that's the thing... I enjoy it too (except that I don't speak Mandarin). And there's the rub, will the desegregation of peoples, customs, and thought, ultimately destroy the worldwide diversity of the cultures? I hope not.

I think that there must be a way to preserve both, but I confess that I'm not sure what it is. I do think that it's an important thing to work out, though.

personally, to me, it's not about being best buddies with the next person that's not of your own race. it's more about mutual respect. not that i'm saying i'm only willing to be friends with other Chinese people, but i tend to connect with Chinese and Asian people more easily.

i think a lot of people have a naturally negative reaction to segregation. but the segregation of today is not the segregation of yesterday. legal segregation in the past meant that blacks and other minorities were legally not allowed access to the rich resources of whites. but segregation today, at least with Asians and Latinos, has more to do with them wanting to be with people from the same backgrounds. this is not a bad thing.

[ZhuBaJie]

I agree with this almost entirely--I just think it's probably worth considering where ethnic enclaves began--enforced real estate and school discrimination along with racist immigration and citizenship laws that have broken down over the years, but still remain in some forms.

When someone chooses to live in Little Village, it's unclear where doing it to be around those who share their cultural background ends and where doing it to not be around those who would attack their cultural background in a bigoted way ends.

sure. but desegregation isn't going to make racism go away. self-segregation would be a consequence of racism if we consider those factors, not the cause of racism. what's bad here is the racism, not the self-segregation.

[THX1138]

The debate here is confused over the actual political nature of principles like segregation, integration, colorblindness, or diversity.

In fact, segregationism and integrationism are actually two sides of the same coin.

They're two sides of the same coin because they are ultimately both just tactics for maintaining White supremacy and American capitalism.

Historically, segregation in the form of American Jim Crow apartheid was based upon the exclusion of various minorities from the US mainstream ... in order to defend White power and capital.

Today, integrationism (and related ideas like Colorblindness and diversity) is based upon the assimilation of minorities into the US mainstream ... in order to serve (and thus defend) White power and capital.

People like Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Michelle Malkin, Bobby Jindal, and even Barack Obama are all examples of how integrationism does NOT quite equal social, economic, or racial justice.

Instead of having a segregated all-White political class implement policies of inequality or oppression at home and imperialist American wars of aggression abroad, now you have a diverse integrated political class ... implement policies of inequality or oppression at home and imperialist American wars of aggression abroad.

Colored faces in high places fundamentally changes nothing. It's old wine in new bottles.

In short, what you're seeing in America is the historical emergence of a new form of White supremacist racism--what Eduardo Bonilla-Silva terms "Colorblind Racism."

"Racism Without Racists- an analysis"
http://whitestudiesblackstudies.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/racism-without-racists-an-analysis/

[King4aDay]

The debate here is confused over the actual political nature of principles like segregation, integration, colorblindness, or diversity.

In fact, segregationism and integrationism are actually two sides of the same coin.

They're two sides of the same coin because they are ultimately both just tactics for maintaining White supremacy and American capitalism.

Historically, segregation in the form of American Jim Crow apartheid was based upon the exclusion of various minorities from the US mainstream ... in order to defend White power and capital.

Today, integrationism (and related ideas like Colorblindness and diversity) is based upon the assimilation of minorities into the US mainstream ... in order to serve (and thus defend) White power and capital.

People like Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Michelle Malkin, Bobby Jindal, and even Barack Obama are all examples of how integrationism does NOT quite equal social, economic, or racial justice.

Instead of having a segregated all-White political class implement policies of inequality or oppression at home and imperialist American wars of aggression abroad, now you have a diverse integrated political class ... implement policies of inequality or oppression at home and imperialist American wars of aggression abroad.

Colored faces in high places fundamentally changes nothing. It's old wine in new bottles.

In short, what you're seeing in America is the historical emergence of a new form of White supremacist racism--what Eduardo Bonilla-Silva terms "Colorblind Racism."

"Racism Without Racists- an analysis"
http://whitestudiesblackstudies.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/racism-without-racists-an-analysis/

Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, what that says is that it doesn't matter how integrated the Country/World/Universe becomes—It won't ever be really "integrated" until my own world view is espoused by them.

[THX1138]

Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, what that says is that it doesn't matter how integrated the Country/World/Universe becomes—It won't ever be really "integrated" until my own world view is espoused by them.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Integration and segregation are merely different tactics to achieve the same political ends: maintaining White dominance in the American Empire.

The older form of White supremacy was the Jim Crow apartheid system based upon socio-political and cultural segregration.

As a result of many different factors such as the rebellions of the 1960s and the changing requirements of American capitalism, a new form of White supremacy has emerged based upon--not segregation--but assimilation of minorities into the US system. This new racism is legitimized by slogans like "colorblindness," "diversity," and "integration"--even as racial and socio-economic inequality continue unabated.

This is the new Colorblind Racism.

[buttermilkwiseman]

sure. but desegregation isn't going to make racism go away. self-segregation would be a consequence of racism if we consider those factors, not the cause of racism.

Which came first the chicken or the egg? It's a question that can never be answered.

what's bad here is the racism, not the self-segregation.

I agree on the desegragation bit since it might not change anything, but i'd like to elaborate on your statement of racism being the bad.

To be more precise, the real problem is not racism itself, it is the internal process of applying a value judgement that causes all the problems; feeling the need to assign a value of superiority and inferiority to an exterior form. It all stems from one's own sense of pride and vanity.

Racism will never end until people cut it at it's root and stop judging each other (which we all know is impossible), because if race weren't the issue then value based discrimination can take place on any other infinite plane. Although I am only referencing individual human suffering, not anything else on a macro or political level.

[ZhuBaJie]

Which came first the chicken or the egg? It's a question that can never be answered.

what the hell are you talking about? it's not a chicken or egg issue. learn your history, segregation happened because of racism.

[King4aDay]

personally, to me, it's not about being best buddies with the next person that's not of your own race. it's more about mutual respect. not that i'm saying i'm only willing to be friends with other Chinese people, but i tend to connect with Chinese and Asian people more easily.

i think a lot of people have a naturally negative reaction to segregation. but the segregation of today is not the segregation of yesterday. legal segregation in the past meant that blacks and other minorities were legally not allowed access to the rich resources of whites. but segregation today, at least with Asians and Latinos, has more to do with them wanting to be with people from the same backgrounds. this is not a bad thing.

Well, I might have to give the enclave idea more thought. It could work if the separation wasn't too severe. And in any case, if you take the Chinatown example, the majority of Chinese people in most cities don't actually live in Chinatown. Chinatowns are Chinese, but they aren't all-encompassing. I think that it's important to preserve these little ethnic neighborhoods as cultural centers for the group... I haven't worked out my thoughts about it all to a successful conclusion.

But the problems that I see with an enforced enclave or "ethnic island" mentality still trouble me. One of the problems would be real estate sales laws. How will we maintain these enclaves, by legally forbidding all but a certain race to buy property in certain areas? So, we'll have special All White Zones and Black Only zones and Japanese Zones?.

Then, of course, there's the problem of how many of these zones there should be, because once one group has a legal ethnic enclave, you can be sure that every other group (no matter how small) will want one, sheerly as a matter of national pride and fairness. To be honest, I can imagine that once all of these zones have been parceled out, in a diverse urban center, that there might be very little city left for non-ethnic concerns.

And finally, the more that people cluster together in groups of sameness, the easier it is for the old tribal behavior to click in. Rumors of how other ethnicities behave go unchecked because nobody in the your enclave really knows what's going on in the other ethnic enclaves. And in the absence of first-hand information, the tribal imagination and exaggeration machine kicks in.

These are only a few of my concerns as I think this idea through. In the end, I fear that we cannot escape the conditioning of our surroundings. We can either learn (and teach our children) to live together or we can learn and reinforce the idea of living apart.

[King4aDay]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Integration and segregation are merely different tactics to achieve the same political ends: maintaining White dominance in the American Empire.

The older form of White supremacy was the Jim Crow apartheid system based upon socio-political and cultural segregration.

As a result of many different factors such as the rebellions of the 1960s and the changing requirements of American capitalism, a new form of White supremacy has emerged based upon--not segregation--but assimilation of minorities into the US system. This new racism is legitimized by slogans like "colorblindness," "diversity," and "integration"--even as racial and socio-economic inequality continue unabated.

This is the new Colorblind Racism.

Well, I do understand the subtleties of what you are asserting, but it seems to leave us with a no win situation. It's kind of like saying that Slavery and Freedom are both just tools of capitalist oppression.

One could make the case that as long as you have a job, working in the "capitalist system" that you're never "truly free" and therefore you are no better off than a Sudanese slave girl. However, that statement would be incorrect. It is far better to be an insurance agent in Dayton Ohio, than to be a slave in Darfur.

The fact that both positions require work and that neither one provides absolute and total freedom to do whatever you want do not make the two circumstances equivalent.

I'd say that it's the same with Segregation and Integration. When we had segregated schools, by law, in this country, things were worse than they are now. When we had "Whites Only" water fountains and lunch counters, things were much worse than they are now. The integration that we see today is progress. It's not perfect, but it's not equivalent to Segregation, which is why it had to be fought for so intensely and why it was so intensely opposed.

[ZhuBaJie]

oh i am in no way suggesting using the law to enforce segregation in any sense. the ethnic enclaves of today, at least for the Asian and Latino ones, come into existence because people of the same backgrounds choose to congregate. if somebody chooses to live and/or socialise in an ethnic enclave that is not of his or her race, then this person should be entirely allowed to do so.

[Tyger Durden]

Yeah, that's the thing... I enjoy it too (except that I don't speak Mandarin). And there's the rub, will the desegregation of peoples, customs, and thought, ultimately destroy the worldwide diversity of the cultures? I hope not.

I think that there must be a way to preserve both, but I confess that I'm not sure what it is. I do think that it's an important thing to work out, though.


Yeah, it's called Cultural Pluralism, when small groups within a larger society maintain their unique cultural identities. I can agree with that motivation.

On the other hand, the danger with being a Multiculturalist is that they try to unite everybody based on the lowest common denominators.

[ZhuBaJie]

One could make the case that as long as you have a job, working in the "capitalist system" that you're never "truly free" and therefore you are no better off than a Sudanese slave girl. However, that statement would be incorrect. It is far better to be an insurance agent in Dayton Ohio, than to be a slave in Darfur.

yeah but when you take the semantics that far, you're basically equating freedom to living your life without even working. :-p

[King4aDay]

yeah but when you take the semantics that far, you're basically equating freedom to living your life without even working. :-p

Which is my dream :D

[ZhuBaJie]

Which is my dream :D

oh believe me, i have dreamt long and hard about what i would do if i suddenly won the lottery.

would be better if i can someday achieve such financial success with business and investments, but studies have shown that the class divide in the US has gotten increasingly difficult to cross.

[buttermilkwiseman]

what the hell are you talking about? it's not a chicken or egg issue. learn your history, segregation happened because of racism.


I should have phrased my response in a less antaganostic way so no hard feelings alright?

Xian said and I agree with him on this "When someone chooses to live in Little Village, it's unclear where doing it to be around those who share their cultural background ends and where doing it to not be around those who would attack their cultural background in a bigoted way ends."

You didn't address his point well enough, you just simply said segregation happened because of racism, just stating it that way is simplistic by comparison especially in a situation where a person is given free choice.

That and I am assuming you are referring to self-segregation that happens in modern communities by voluntary choice, and not the kind imposed upon by white people back in the Jim Crow days. I brought up the chicken and the egg analogy, because like King4aday and I think others have pointed out; liviing in ethnic enclaves also have the possibility of fostering bigotry and prejudice in the absence of knowledge in other communities (ie: racism).

[buttermilkwiseman]

I'd say that it's the same with Segregation and Integration. When we had segregated schools, by law, in this country, things were worse than they are now. When we had "Whites Only" water fountains and lunch counters, things were much worse than they are now. The integration that we see today is progress. It's not perfect, but it's not equivalent to Segregation, which is why it had to be fought for so intensely and why it was so intensely opposed.

Yeah I agree with this and the other things you have to say in your posts, but i'd like to add in THX's defense the new problems which benefit the dominant majority and marginalize people of color are more elusive and harder to establish legitimacy. (ie: IR disparity)

[King4aDay]

Yeah I agree with this and the other things you have to say in your posts, but i'd like to add in THX's defense the new problems which benefit the dominant majority and marginalize people of color are more elusive and harder to establish legitimacy. (ie: IR disparity)

Yes, on that we can both agree.

[King4aDay]

On the other hand, the danger with being a Multiculturalist is that they try to unite everybody based on the lowest common denominators.

I hadn't heard of this idea before. How does it work?

[Tyger Durden]

I hadn't heard of this idea before. How does it work?


It's an idea based on this Aussie's blog (http://ker-plunk.blogspot.com/2007/05/pluralism-vs-multiculturalism.html) I stumbled upon one day. I think he/she makes a lot of sense...at least to me.

[tkguy]

These are only a few of my concerns as I think this idea through. In the end, I fear that we cannot escape the conditioning of our surroundings. We can either learn (and teach our children) to live together or we can learn and reinforce the idea of living apart.

obviously you are not an asiaphile with a hidden agenda. people are too model minority polite here.

[King4aDay]

people are too model minority polite here.

Yes, I've noticed that too.

I appreciate your honesty, freckles. Your honesty shines a light on the lies on this forum...

[Tyger Durden]

How dare you flaunt our unwritten rules and conventions, newcomer! Now I must put you in your place with expletives and angst. Hopefully someone with a bigger post count will happen by and reward me with delicious approval.


man, I'll give you approval. The first two pages are ROTFLMAO material...;)

[tkguy]

Yes, I've noticed that too.

That was an act fool. And I admitted that too.

so you pretty much admitted that you have a hidden agenda. but I already knew that.

The difference here is that I am not taking advantage of asians here. you are.

[King4aDay]

That was an act fool. And I admitted that too.

so you pretty much admitted that you have a hidden agenda. but I already knew that.

The difference here is that I am not taking advantage of asians here. you are.

An act?

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahaha!!

Wow, so you weren't really serious... O.K.

But TK, why don't you just admit that you are a "whitewashed" anglophile, with no sense of pride?
You'll feel much better for it. :)

[tkguy]

An act?

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahaha!!

Wow, so you weren't really serious... O.K.

But TK, why don't you just admit that you are a "whitewashed" anglophile, with no sense of pride?
You'll feel much better for it. :)

this actually can be seen as your own subconscious admission. which is where the true hilarity lies.

[buttermilkwiseman]

man, I'll give you approval. The first two pages are ROTFLMAO material...;)

Dude let me congratulate you, not too many people on this forum including myself are brave enough to admit being shaden-freudes.

[King4aDay]

this actually can be seen as your own subconscious admission. which is where the true hilarity lies.

Took the words right out of my mouth.
Good night TK, until next time.

[Tyger Durden]

Dude let me congratulate you, not too many people on this forum including myself are brave enough to admit being shaden-freudes.


"Life is suffering." - the Buddha

"Perhaps I know best why it is man alone who laughs; he alone suffers so deeply that he had to invent laughter." - Friedrich Nietzsche

"When I look at the smiles on all the children's faces, I just know they're about to jab me with something." - Homer Simpson

[ktkbs]

but studies have shown that the class divide in the US has gotten increasingly difficult to cross.

Luckily the U.S is heading for a financial implosion that will force them to rethink the system.

Racism will never end until people cut it at it's root

Yes- one of the main roots is white people having too much power globally. Military, economic, political, cultural. To be frank they simply haven't earned their position.

Luckily, the rest of the world is developing now so that no one ever has to buy anything from white people ever again. Not until they deserve your money.