Work shop on Asian male sexuality

[kwak76]

This past weekend (I did not attend) the guys from Fall out central did a work shop about Asian male sexuality at Wellesley which is a all women University in Boston. It was for the Asian Student Union and most of the audience were Asian female students.

Here is the link with some pics.
http://public.fotki.com/falloutcentral/wellesley-college-w/


They started out with free word association. For example they would write on the black board the word candy and what is the first word that comes into people head will write that word on the board.

They first started out with random words like candy or shoes for example.

They then also wrote the word black men , Latin Men and Asian men. Albert told me that when the word black men was written on the board the audience wrote allot of negative stereotypes about black men but also wrote the word tall , strong , and good dancer.

For Latin men the word association was player , salsa , suave and good lover.

When the word Asian men was written the audience said short, sexist , domineering , mama boy, unsuccessful.,etc. in other words all negative stereotypes about Asian men with out any positive sexual stereotypes.

The audience was actually surprise that they would say some of this stuff . The guys from fall out central did not force them to say anything but just guided them.

Albert told me that there was this one Asian girl that said Asian men should just be himself and ignore these stereotypes but when Albert or Will question her if an Asian man went up to her in a bar or a club and started to talk to her . How would she react ?

She said she knows how to make Asian guys feel uncomfortable. In other words she will give more shit test to an Asian guy than to a white guy because sub-consciously by giving more shit test to an Asian guy she wants to see if the Asian guy can over come these stereotypes. Where as a white guy gets a freebie.

I was not surprise by this outcome because this is pretty much what Asian American men deal with from Asian American women. The Asian women in the audience was actually surprise by how they think of Asian men.

On a side note there were a few non-Asian female participant and from what I heard they voice the same viewpoint that Asian female had about Asian men.

There were two Asian men in the audience and Albert told me they look really uncomfortable during the work shop. One of the Asian guys told the audience that he thinks his a cool guy with goals in life but he admits that he has to deal with these stereotypes which makes it so much harder to meet a girl.

The purpose of the work shop is to get people thinking of their own racism and to realize that this racism is something that is force fed to us. I told Albert that I imagine if that was a room full of FOBBY girls you may of have a different reaction and view point on Asian men.

[kwak76]

That work shop got me thinking. Lately on this forum there has been allot written on Asian American feminism.

To this day I have no idea what Asian American feminism is but what I do know about it is that Asian American feminism when I did encounter it wants to put the blame on Asian men and Asian culture for being oppressive.

I'm not going to defend the sexism within the Asian culture because we do have it but I remember my conversation with someone that this division within our community does not help us.


However, it goes both ways. For example log into Model minority and most of the male posters there are bitter angry Asian guys who blame it on the sell out whores as they term it. If your an Asian women who dates out to a white guy. You would be consider an enemy and a sell out . Asian women will say you don;t own me you sexist pig I have free choice. Asian guy will say in reply that is not free choice but your brain wash to go for white guys. Etc etc..it never ends.

What happens is we just end up pointing fingers at each other as if we are the enemy. What I liked about this work shop is that Asian men and Asian women have to communicate with each other and face each other bigotry that we have of each other.

I meet some Asian men that tell me that forget Asian women they sell out and care only about themselves.(I actually meet Asian guys that say this within the activist circle. ) Asian men has to carry the movement themselves.

Than you have the Asian American feminist and if we go by the Tans and Kingston of the world the message is Asian men are the problem.

In the end who benefits from this infighting ?

[jaehwan]

Interesting stuff.
http://falloutcentral.com/workshops/aa_male_sexuality/wellesley_4-5-08.jpg

I probably would have done it somewhat differently since it sounds like it may have been heavy in the identity-search department, but I'd still be interested in hearing what happened during the session.

Are they going to post a follow up?

[Scowl]

Here is the link with some pics.
http://public.fotki.com/falloutcentral/wellesley-college-w/

I see Ike!

[nightshade]

Interesting stuff.
http://falloutcentral.com/workshops/aa_male_sexuality/wellesley_4-5-08.jpg

I probably would have done it somewhat differently since it sounds like it may have been heavy in the identity-search department, but I'd still be interested in hearing what happened during the session.

Are they going to post a follow up?

Ugh, that poster may as well read, "Why do Asian guys secretly prefer white women over Asian women?"

Just like Asian American feminism, this uplifting of Asian American male sexuality is not going to work if it's all about dating white people. Dating white people is not the point. Sigh.

[uRB4N]

I was reading a comment from 8Asians.com and this guy kept repeating that there is no division between Asian men and women. The fact that we even need a workshop like this proves otherwise.

[nskripchun]

As much as I might be tempted to knock something like this, I applaud Fallout Central and ASU for actually holding a workshop like this. Maybe it doesn't reach everybody, but at least it's an attempt to get some sort of open, honest community dialogue started.

So did the topic of PUA + the Asian American male community come up? I'm curious.

[jaehwan]

Ugh, that poster may as well read, "Why do Asian guys secretly prefer white women over Asian women?"

Just like Asian American feminism, this uplifting of Asian American male sexuality is not going to work if it's all about dating white people. Dating white people is not the point. Sigh.

I totally missed that. My bad. I saw the pictures, and virtually the whole audience was Asian American women, and so I just thought in terms of Asian women. I think most of the FC guys date Asian women themselves. But you do raise a good point about the wording of the poster. I was focusing mostly on the academic aspect of whether a focus on identity is a good thing, which means I'm either a book-nerd, or I need to see things more from a female perspective.

PS: Not that it excuses the wording of the poster--because I do see your point--but I'm wondering how they managed to fill that room with Asian women. If I had the ability to do that during college...

[nskripchun]

I totally missed that. My bad. I saw the pictures, and virtually the whole audience was Asian American women, and so I just thought in terms of Asian women. I think most of the FC guys date Asian women themselves. But you do raise a good point about the wording of the poster. I was focusing mostly on the academic aspect of whether a focus on identity is a good thing, which means I'm either a book-nerd, or I need to see things more from a female perspective.

PS: Not that it excuses the wording of the poster--because I do see your point--but I'm wondering how they managed to fill that room with Asian women. If I had the ability to do that during college...

Maybe because Wellesley is an all-girls school?

My cynical side says that if you were to hold this workshop at a co-ed university, the gender ratio would be skewed HEAVILY toward Asian American men. Like 70-30.

[nightshade]

So did the topic of PUA + the Asian American male community come up? I'm curious.

Oh, PUA--up until a few months ago I had no idea what it meant. Now it seems to pop up all the time.

I do love that the audience was 70% female. That's pretty rocking and makes me feel more optimistic about the state of the world.

[jaehwan]

Maybe because Wellesley is an all-girls school?

My cynical side says that if you were to hold this workshop at a co-ed university, the gender ratio would be skewed HEAVILY toward Asian American men. Like 70-30.

Haha...skrips, I don't know about you, but if I were to hold an event talking about Asian American male sexuality during my university days, I don't think women would show up. Even if I took it to Wellesley. :)

You do raise a good point though. If I were to hold this even at a big school like UC Berkeley, the gender ratio would be skewed and perhaps fewer women would show up. We should talk to FC about this to learn from their experiences.

Oh, PUA--up until a few months ago I had no idea what it meant. Now it seems to pop up all the time.

I do love that the audience was 70% female. That's pretty rocking and makes me feel more optimistic about the state of the world.

Totally rocking.

[kwak76]

Nightshade,

All the guys form the Fall Out central are with Asian women. In matter of fact they prefer Asian women. However, you do bring up a good point with the wording on the poster.


I think the reason (my guess) they use the word white is because from a social perspective Asian women and white men are socially acceptable in America

(this implies that Asian women are sexual beings because they are accepted albeit under white men terms which is not good )

but Asian men with white women are not. So I do agree the word does mislead that Asian men wants to hook up with white girls but that was not the purpose of the work shop.

The purpose of the work shop is to help define (identity politics ) if there is Asian "American" male sexuality. They focus on Asian American women because they wanted Asian women to face their own bigotry toward Asian American men.

Why use the word White? because many Asian Americans do not have identity and let the majority define who we are and in our taste.

This sounds sooo fucked up but if white women started to go after Asian men and give value to Asian men. I bet my bank account that Asian American women would start to chase after Asian men also. The reason why is that from my experience we base our value in what is cool from the majority view point.



This does sound fucked up and something I have to bring up to the guys with Fall Out central. I think I even know who worded on the poster.

[kwak76]

Jaehwan,

They wanted to do the same work shop at NYU this coming weekend but NYU ASU (bunch of pussies) didn't wanted it and instead had some other group do a presentation about gender politics. In other words let's not talk about it.

Issue like this has to be communicated between Asian American men and women. It's a start and needs more patch work but we DO need this. I always go to different Asian message forum and all I see is either flame wars or accusation that the other is a sell out or the other is sexist.

The reason why i think this past work shop worked out fine is because the audience was the one actually defining the issue. The guys form FOC was just moderating it and guiding it. All they did was present " what's an Asian American guy " by word and pictures association.

The audience realize that did have negative stereotypes toward Asian American men . I think the first step is to realize our own view of how we see each other. The second step is why do we see each other this way.

I think the second step is most important. The third step is awareness and overcoming it.

The reason why we have gender division in our community is because white people fucked our heads so much.

[Ike]

I was not surprise by this outcome because this is pretty much what Asian American men deal with from Asian American women. The Asian women in the audience was actually surprise by how they think of Asian men.

I attended the workshop, and I was very surprised. I thought the attendees would be mostly women who understood that stereotypes contribute to desexualizing Asian American men, and I thought the goal of the workshop would be to find solutions.

I see Ike!

You see Vince and Alvin too. =P

[kwak76]

ike,

Boy do we live in small world. Now I do regret not going. In my daily encounters with Asian American women I deal with racial stereotypes from Asian American women.

Will and I agree that some Asian American women give more hard time to Asian American guys than to white guys just because of these stereotypes. It's sad but very true.

Solutions will be great but the problem with our community is that so many of us still don't recognize the problem. We have to first admit we have problems. I know this may sound extreme but the state of Asian America is pretty sad with no real direction. Once we admit we have issues with our own racial self and with each other than we can progress to the next goal which is finding solution and healing.

I still meet allot of Asian American women in NYC of all places that blames me for the negative stereotypes . What they don't realize is that they brought into the matrix and can't see out of it.


This is where I disagree with some of the guys from FOC. There position is that Asian men has to carry the cross and the burden and Asian women will do jack shit. Asian women buy into the stereotype and not realize it's just the fucking matrix that was force fed them. So , therefore Asian women are of no help. Asian men has to help themselves because this is really Asian men problem. To certain degree I agree.

However, I have a problem with this view point because it doesn't help heal our community and just create further division in our community. It's just another way of pointing the finger.

Not to attack on Asian women but yeah..the guys from FOC and I both agree when it comes to issues it appears that Asian American women don't see it.

I think Albert told me there was one girl in the audience that said is this all about just getting laid. (God I wish I was there because I would of told her my mind.)

Yes, and no. Quick answer is yes . Who wouldn't want to get laid but it's more than that. The no part is that it comes down to how people value you and see you.

If you have no value you are of no consequence. In other words since Asian men have low value they have no cocks and therefore are of no consequence.

Sex part is really the least of it. The problem is the position of how society judge us and how quickly we embrace that view point.

Asian women are judge in a hyper-sexual light and Asian men are judge as cock-less. What people don't realize is that we are connected because we are define not by us but outside group. In back handed way they are controlling us through the thought pattens.

I remember SB1 told me that Asian American are mentally enslaved by white America. This is one proof of it. This is the real problem.

Yes, sex is important because if we can't see each other as sexual being it's because we don't see each other as competent being.

[Scowl]

You see Vince and Alvin too. =P

Yeah, but no one else is gonna know what I'm talking about.

I wish I coulda been there.

[evil_FUX]

^Haha so according to kwak's recanting, which one was the most uncomfortable?

ETA: nm. Ike you look so bored.

[nskripchun]

So is there gonna be a part 2 to the workshop?

[uRB4N]

Kwak,

You don't need to "bet" anything. What you said is 100% true. Women will find you even more attractive depending on whether or not other women find you attractive. It's a fact. The theory that if non-Asian women find Asian men attractive, it *will* cause Asian women to think the same.

There is a direct correlation.

I honestly don't know why it's so surprising. As always, the personal is politcal. As long as it doesn't affect someone personally, no one really gives a rat's ass.

Asian men will always care more about emasculation and play down sexism. Asian women will always care about sexism and play down Asian men emasculation. Every single time there is a topic like this, it *always* gets warped into "but what does this do for ME?"

There is a poster on 8Asians.com called "Bo" and she always plays this angle. She'll always add that Asian women are dating and marrying out more often simply because of sexism in Asian America and she dismisses and plays off any fault coming from Asian American women and Asian male emasculation. If you bring that up, she spins it into "but it all revolves around Asian male sexism." I mean, she's 2 arguments away from blaming global warming as a result of Asian American sexism.

It's selfishness. Pure and simple.

[Ike]

^Haha so according to kwak's recanting, which one was the most uncomfortable?

ETA: nm. Ike you look so bored.

There were actually 3 AAMs there, as you can see here: http://public.fotki.com/falloutcentral/wellesley-college-w/img0453.html.

I wasn't really paying attention to the reactions of the guy on the left, because I didn't know him too well (friend of the guy in the middle). The guy in the middle looked PISSED the whole time. And the guy on the right (that's my boyfriend, I'm sitting on the other side of him, but I'm hidden in the picture) just looked sad.

I wasn't bored, I was miserable and exasperated while attempting to be polite.

Imagine you're in a room full of women making racist statements about your boyfriend... /facepalm

[nightshade]

Nightshade,

All the guys form the Fall Out central are with Asian women. In matter of fact they prefer Asian women. However, you do bring up a good point with the wording on the poster.


I think the reason (my guess) they use the word white is because from a social perspective Asian women and white men are socially acceptable in America

(this implies that Asian women are sexual beings because they are accepted albeit under white men terms which is not good )

but Asian men with white women are not. So I do agree the word does mislead that Asian men wants to hook up with white girls but that was not the purpose of the work shop.

The purpose of the work shop is to help define (identity politics ) if there is Asian "American" male sexuality. They focus on Asian American women because they wanted Asian women to face their own bigotry toward Asian American men.

Why use the word White? because many Asian Americans do not have identity and let the majority define who we are and in our taste.

This sounds sooo fucked up but if white women started to go after Asian men and give value to Asian men. I bet my bank account that Asian American women would start to chase after Asian men also. The reason why is that from my experience we base our value in what is cool from the majority view point.

This does sound fucked up and something I have to bring up to the guys with Fall Out central. I think I even know who worded on the poster.

Yeah, the last thing we need is for the dudes in the Asian American community to also base their activism around white people. We don't need another tainted and retarded movement. And we really don't need white approval. We need each other.

[CJF]

I've read a few boards with white girls complaining that Asian men don't make themselves available to them.

IMO, Asian guys shouldn't limit themselves to Asian women. If whitewashed Asian women don't appreciate, you aren't going to change their mind. You will write paragraphs and paragraphs, and they'll just tell you 'get laid' or 'you can't control me!'

They are right though. Asian men cannot control the actions of Asian female community. Sure, talks a great, but the talks seem to go nowhere in the end. The girls will go to the forum enlightened, then turn on the TV, and watch Lucy Liu dryhumping Hugh Heffner.

IMO, Asian men shouldn't limit themselves to Asian women. IMO, this is a HUGE reason why a lot of Asian girls aren't going for Asians, because they know that they got a bunch waiting for them. But if Asian men start outdating, it counters the effect. They get a bit jealous, and they will come back.

This does not mean of course just go for white and mexican and black women. This means, go for whoever you can get and whoever appreciate you for who you are. In the end, we'll be happier, than sitting around writing diatribes about some stupid whitewashed ho.

[jaehwan]

Jaehwan,

They wanted to do the same work shop at NYU this coming weekend but NYU ASU (bunch of pussies) didn't wanted it and instead had some other group do a presentation about gender politics. In other words let's not talk about it.


Yeah, that's what I figured most places would do. They'd take a good effort and they'd amytanize it.

Man, Kwak, even though I'm ambivalent on the identity-search thing, I must say that I'm really impressed that they were able to arrange this and pack the house. I do organizing myself, and I know how hard it is to get something like this going. It's inspirational.

[RebelAzn]

And there are still people out there doubt the power of media image and stereotypes. Man Asian Americans are really in some sort of sad state. I am scared to find out what the next generation will be like. It is like we are being white out the way things are going.

Got to give guys at Fall Central for putting a workshop like this together though. This is much needed and in order for anything to get done, we have to understand why we see things the way they are ourselves first.

[groinpull]

i can understand why some of the asian guys would be embarrassed/uncomfortable.

i wonder if any asian girls walked away from the workshopped having learned anything, or did they just think 'hmm, interesting' and just went back to their old ways? i don't think one little event like that is enough to change anyone's minds imo. maybe they'll take away a few objective facts about asian american man, but it's unlikely to have stirred any internal emotions.

edit: anyone find it kinda funny that jenn fang is a part of fall out central? i don't know why i just think think it's kind of ironic to see her face amongst the other asian guys(for some reason)

edit2: Does anyone listen to fall out central's pod cast? I think they do an OUTSTANDING job. I was listening to the Wilson Chu episode and it just blew my mind. I wish they did more.

[groinpull]

We need each other.

:(

all joking aside, it's so sad that asian men and women just can't seem to get along.

[CJF]

:(

all joking aside, it's so sad that asian men and women just can't seem to get along.

In my school which is 40% Asian, there doesn't seem to be THAT big of a disparity and they get along fine.

But of course, there are always those 25% Asian girls who will hang out with all White people.

[RebelAzn]

After watching the Olympic torch run in SF yesterday, it struck me that how much pride many Chinese and Chinese Americans have in their home country. After reading feedback from the workshop, it almost makes you wonder which one is better off socially and mentally?

1) A Chinese citizen living in China. The west will say all the Chinese are brainwashed by the communist government etc. or

2) Living in America where there is freedom of speech. However, that freedom of speech resulted on media promoting mostly "white is right" agenda and minimize anything dealing with minorities other than stereotypes. As a result, America is brainwashing many young Asian Americans who hate themselves and are obsessed with "white is right" point of view while totally downplaying anything to do with Asian culture. Is this the future we are looking for?

So which country is the one doing real damage to Asians mentally and socially? Got to make you wonder...

[nightshade]

:(

all joking aside, it's so sad that asian men and women just can't seem to get along.

I think it's just the fake feminists and emotionally stunted dudes who don't get along.

RebelAzn: dude, for the last time, the media is just a symptom of the illness. No one is saying that the media doesn't have shitty effects on our community, but media doesn't just grow out of someone's ass--people create media for consumption. And until we can get those people to wake the fuck up, or to make a power grab and get our people into companies to make big decisions on entertainment and news, no token casting is going to save us.

We need to educate, and we need our people to be better read, better spoken, and willing to stand up for shit.

[groinpull]

i want to ask someonoe who listens to the podcast regularly. does anyone know who the guys are? i know the main guys are albert and will, albert's the one with the deep voice. but there's two other guys, one is george, who speaks with an accent, but there's another guy there. is it telly? or something like it? he usually makes really inappropriate, bitter comments usually about wm/af. trying to figure out his name is. i think albert and will really picks up the slack cause the other guy justs sounds rude all the time.

[HurricaneSteve]

That workshop sounds like it would have been quite interesting to go to. It's really sad to see such a gender divide in the AA community and there really is no quick fix but I think one thing that might help things is for both sides to get away from the Asian-American label and simply be themselves. I liken it to a family, when you're living with your folks you feel like you're forced to be someone that you're not so while you really do care about them deep down, you just can't stand to be around them (if your family is nothing like this, skip ahead!). Once everyone is doing their own thing, relations tend to get better and all is right with the world.

This doesn't mean trashing your heritage and background but being AA shouldn't define who we are, but rather just one of many qualities that we possess. If there's one thing I've learned growing up in a state that's 99% white, it's that while there will always be those who hold antiquated prejudices, any semi-intelligent person that's worth the time will see you as an individual if you allow yourself to be one. In this day in age a strong, confident person who is able to adapt their surroundings simply cannot be held down regardless of where they are from and how they look. It's an uphill battle at times but if stereotypes aren't true, then the ones perpetuating them will look end up looking like fools.

By the way Ike, which one are you in the photos?

[CJF]

After watching the Olympic torch run in SF yesterday, it struck me that how much pride many Chinese and Chinese Americans have in their home country. After reading feedback from the workshop, it almost makes you wonder which one is better off socially and mentally?

1) A Chinese citizen living in China. The west will say all the Chinese are brainwashed by the communist government etc. or

2) Living in America where there is freedom of speech. However, that freedom of speech resulted on media promoting mostly "white is right" agenda and minimize anything dealing with minorities other than stereotypes. As a result, America is brainwashing many young Asian Americans who hate themselves and are obsessed with "white is right" point of view while totally downplaying anything to do with Asian culture. Is this the future we are looking for?

So which country is the one doing real damage to Asians mentally and socially? Got to make you wonder...

For me, the shit I go through with white people, and I'm half white myself mind you, makes my nationalism for China even more deep. I don't see how they could ever make me hate myself, but rather live a life where I have to get on top.

Did anybody else get teary eyed when they saw the torch being run through San Francisco, London and Paris, with these 6'3 paratroopers holding their heads high, not taking crap from anybody?

This really is to me, the symbol of the end of Western imperialism in Asia. It may not be completely gone now, but with China's emergence, it sure is getting there.

[Ike]

By the way Ike, which one are you in the photos?

I'm the girl with the mullet, sitting next to the guy with the faux hawk. Yay for iffy hairstyle choices. ^.^

[groinpull]

kwak are u john kwak from fall out central?

and can u tell me the guys who were at the workshop. i see that albert is there, and i guess william is there, and then there's one other guy. can u tell me which is william and who the other guy is?

[kwak76]

grionpull ,

I PM ed you

[ZhuBaJie]

i can't say i personally identify with what went on in the seminar or the discussion here so far about how Asian men and women "don't get along" - most Asian women i know either only or mostly date Asian men. but i must say, for a topic that can easily turn into a tool for vindication by a lot of MM.com type Asian dudes, the discussion here has been pretty good so far.

one thing i would say about the seminar, i wish they reciprocated on how Asian men view Asian women. many Asian women have a skewed view of Asian men, but conversely, do Asian men feel a sense of entitlement to Asian women being available to them? that's a question that's often explored by Asian women, but how often do Asian guys ask themselves that question?

i ask this because i'm the type of guy that feels that if you're an average looking guy and you're not willing to really stick your neck out, be outgoing and approachable around women, then you shouldn't expect women to be giving you the time of day anyway and you shouldn't bitch.

[luckythirteen]

I think it's just the fake feminists and emotionally stunted dudes who don't get along.

RebelAzn: dude, for the last time, the media is just a symptom of the illness. No one is saying that the media doesn't have shitty effects on our community, but media doesn't just grow out of someone's ass--people create media for consumption. And until we can get those people to wake the fuck up, or to make a power grab and get our people into companies to make big decisions on entertainment and news, no token casting is going to save us.

We need to educate, and we need our people to be better read, better spoken, and willing to stand up for shit.

I totally agree with you. The lack of representation of Asian males in the media is nothing but a symptom of the power hierarchy in this country and is not a cause. What's the point of worrying about the symptom when you don't threat the disease? I hear this typical argument that Asian males make a lot of money and are smart so they should receive the same treatment as white males. Yeah, but are Asian males well represented in all branches of the government, come from old money and well connected to the powerhouses in America? Whenever I hear this argument about the media keeping down Asian males, I always picture that scene in Braveheart where William Wallace says "You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshank's table that you've missed your God given right to something better." It's time to reach for bigger things than trying to get a date.

[SamuraiJack]

I think it's just the fake feminists and emotionally stunted dudes who don't get along.

RebelAzn: dude, for the last time, the media is just a symptom of the illness. No one is saying that the media doesn't have shitty effects on our community, but media doesn't just grow out of someone's ass--people create media for consumption. And until we can get those people to wake the fuck up, or to make a power grab and get our people into companies to make big decisions on entertainment and news, no token casting is going to save us.

We need to educate, and we need our people to be better read, better spoken, and willing to stand up for shit.

The media is a symptom and a cause of the illness. You can say that people's stereotypes don't come from nowhere, and that media influences them to a large degree. In fact, the only exposure to Asians for the majority of white people is through the media.

However, I am starting to see the benefits of grass-roots education of these issues to our community. I've actually switched my position to agree that education is where it needs to start, rather than just trying to get more Asian faces in the media.

I think it needs to start at a young age and continue through to adulthood, rather than starting in college where many people's minds have already been set.

[CJF]

I totally agree with you. The lack of representation of Asian males in the media is nothing but a symptom of the power hierarchy in this country and is not a cause. What's the point of worrying about the symptom when you don't threat the disease? I hear this typical argument that Asian males make a lot of money and are smart so they should receive the same treatment as white males. Yeah, but are Asian males well represented in all branches of the government, come from old money and well connected to the powerhouses in America? Whenever I hear this argument about the media keeping down Asian males, I always picture that scene in Braveheart where William Wallace says "You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshank's table that you've missed your God given right to something better." It's time to reach for bigger things than trying to get a date.

Keep in mind...it ain't fair, but nothing is going to be handed to Asian males either.

On a bright (or maybe not) note, the guy who wrote all the torure laws for Bush was a Korean American! :o