Tibet's protest -America's response

[Shadow_Reaper]

Source: Mainichi Japan:

During a visit to Paris on Friday, McCain said China's crackdown "is not correct" and, after a meeting with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, expressed hope Beijing would seek a peaceful resolution.

"The people there are being subjected to mistreatment that is not acceptable with the conduct of a world power, which China is," McCain said in response to a question by a Chinese reporter.

"There must be respect for human rights, and I would hope that the Chinese are actively seeking a peaceful resolution to this situation that exists which harms not only the human rights of the people there but also the image of China in the world," he said.

The crackdown has drawn attention to China's human rights record, threatening to overshadow Beijing's attempts to project an image of unity and prosperity ahead of the Aug. 8-24 Olympics.

On Friday, U.S. Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi lent her support to the Tibetan cause on a visit to the Dalai Lama at his headquarters in India, calling China's crackdown "a challenge to the conscience of the world."

Pelosi, long a fierce critic of China, called for an international investigation and dismissed Beijing's claim that the Dalai Lama was behind the fighting as making "no sense." The Dalai Lama, who received the 1989 Nobel Peace Prize, says he does not seek independence but wants genuine autonomy to protect Tibet's unique Buddhist culture.

Fighting back against the rising criticism, Beijing has begun releasing tallies of statements of support from foreign governments and trying to get its version of events before the international community.

"It is a clear proof that the international community is on the side of China", foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said, according to Xinhua, which reported that 100 governments have endorsed China's handling of the protests.

Without mentioning Pelosi by name, Qin said China opposes "any encouragement and support for the secessionist schemes of the Dalai clique."

On Friday, authorities intensified a manhunt for people accused of violence, posting their photos -- taken from video cameras and security footage -- on major Internet portals.

The 21 people are accused of endangering national security, and cited for beating, smashing, looting and arson. One suspect was shown wielding a long sword and another was a mustached man who had been shown on news programs slashing another with a foot-long blade.

Xinhua said two of the 21 suspects were arrested and a third turned himself in. Authorities offered rewards for information and promised anonymity to tipsters.

Police have arrested 24 people and another 183 turned themselves in, Xinhua said.

Outside of Lhasa, Beijing has deployed troops across a wide swath of western China where more than half of China's 5.4 million Tibetans live.

Moving from town to town, police set up blockades and checkpoints to keep Tibetans in and journalists out.

The mobilization was helping authorities reassert control after demonstrations flared in Sichuan, Qinghai and Gansu provinces, inspired by monks in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa last week.

In Lhasa on Friday, residents said police patrolled the streets but people were free to go where they wanted as long as they had identity cards. In ethnic Tibetan areas of Sichuan and Gansu, residents said security forces set up armed encampments and hundreds of troops were patrolling towns.

State television, in its first footage of the confrontation between protesters and police last Sunday in the Tibetan town of Aba, showed dozens of crimson-robed monks charging at a line of police standing behind plastic riot shields. Crowds of ordinary people hurled rocks and one threw a molotov cocktail as cars burned in the town ringed by snow-peaked mountains.

Xinhua said earlier that police opened fire on the crowd, wounding four and that protesters tried to break into the police armory to steal weapons. Tibet support groups say police killed at least eight and posted photos of bloody corpses on the Internet.

And this is coming from a country who violated HUMAN RIGHTS in the Iraqi war and the government didnt give a rats ass? But when China is in the spotlight the government raise their voice??

The police exercised necessary force to prevent a State of Emergency occuring. Its not like they are going to create a God damn massacre ffs. The goddamn western media is saying that:

1)China IS the source of the protest.
2)China used firing squads as a source of controlling the riot.

Doesnt that lead to a contradictory statement??

What pissed me off more is that the Pelosi fuk even said that the international community should "investigate" China. So she thinks China is going to open up its doors and allowed it to be screened inside out? Since when was China a "terrorist" country? Pfftt...

A "challenge conscious to the world?" So she is saying everyone gives a damn more about overseas politics then their family at home. Oh please...

And in my eyes the racist McCain still looks like an idiot to me and his statement made him look like more of an asshole when i think of the Iraq war.

The good thing is, like it is said in the article the international community is backing China. Except the British in BBC and im not too sure in terms of Germany since i saw their news report and it seems as if it was written by an American.

Sorry pplz gotta vent here. Been hearing this all day about the Pelosi ass and it pissed me off.

[minbo]

Not that I am a fan of the PRC, nor do I like what is happening in Tibet but I like hard unbiased first person reporting rather than biased first person or biased third person reporting.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/

Transcript: James Miles interview on Tibet

Story Highlights
James Miles, journalist with The Economist, was in Lhasa during violent protests
Says he witnessed violence against ethnic Han Chinese and Muslim Hui minority
Ethnic Tibetans involved in protests were "armed and very intimidating," he says
He says he did not see any evidence of any organized anti-Chinese activityBEIJING, China (CNN) -- James Miles, of The Economist, has just returned from Lhasa, Tibet. The following is a transcript of an interview he gave to CNN.
<snip>
Q. There was an official response to this. In some reporting, info coming from Tibetan exiles, there was keenness to report it as Tiananmen.
A. Well the Chinese response to this was very interesting. Because you would expect at the first sings of any unrest in Lhasa, which is a city on a knife-edge at the best of times. That the response would be immediate and decisive. That they would cordon off whatever section of the city involved, that they would grab the people involved in the unrest. In fact what we saw, and I was watching it at the earliest stages, was complete inaction on the part of the authorities. It seemed as if they were paralyzed by indecision over how to handle this. The rioting rapidly spread from Beijing Road, this main central thoroughfare of Lhasa, into the narrow alleyways of the old Tibetan quarter. But I didn't see any attempt in those early hours by the authorities to intervene. And I suspect again the Olympics were a factor there. That they were very worried that if they did move in decisively at that early stage of the unrest that bloodshed would ensue in their efforts to control it. And what they did instead was let the rioting run its course and it didn't really finish as far as I saw until the middle of the day on the following day on the Saturday, March the 15th. So in effect what they did was sacrifice the livelihoods of many, many ethnic Han Chinese in the city for the sake of letting the rioters vent their anger. And then being able to move in gradually with troops with rifles that they occasionally let off with single shots, apparently warning shots, in order to scare everybody back into their homes and put an end to this.
Q. Would be false to suggest there was heavy-handed security approach?
A. Well this was covering a vast area of the city and I was the only foreign journalist, at least accredited, to ... who was there to witness this. It was impossible to get a total picture. I did hear persistent rumors while I was there during this rioting of isolated clashes between the security forces and rioters. And rumors of occasional bloodshed involved in that. But I can do no more really on the basis of what I saw then say there was a probability that some ethnic Chinese were killed in this violence, and also a probability that some Tibetans, Tibetan rioters themselves were killed by members of the security forces. But it's impossible to get the kind of numbers or real first hand evidences necessary to back that up.
</snip>

[awong]

Source: Mainichi Japan:



And this is coming from a country who violated HUMAN RIGHTS in the Iraqi war and the government didnt give a rats ass? But when China is in the spotlight the government raise their voice??

The police exercised necessary force to prevent a State of Emergency occuring. Its not like they are going to create a God damn massacre ffs. The goddamn western media is saying that:

1)China IS the source of the protest.
2)China used firing squads as a source of controlling the riot.

Doesnt that lead to a contradictory statement??

What pissed me off more is that the Pelosi fuk even said that the international community should "investigate" China. So she thinks China is going to open up its doors and allowed it to be screened inside out? Since when was China a "terrorist" country? Pfftt...

A "challenge conscious to the world?" So she is saying everyone gives a damn more about overseas politics then their family at home. Oh please...

And in my eyes the racist McCain still looks like an idiot to me and his statement made him look like more of an asshole when i think of the Iraq war.

The good thing is, like it is said in the article the international community is backing China. Except the British in BBC and im not too sure in terms of Germany since i saw their news report and it seems as if it was written by an American.

Sorry pplz gotta vent here. Been hearing this all day about the Pelosi ass and it pissed me off.

tell that to the people who support the state of israel in the US, like cough cough scrotom head octa, they cant even take it back when its a similar situation...

[SamuraiJack]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-03/22/content_6557738.htm

I'm glad the Chinese government and the Chinese people are clueing in on the Western media bias. Hopefully they start to realize how far down the rabbit hole goes.... ie Hollywood, commercials, ads, magazines, and the white population in general.

[Shadow_Reaper]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-03/22/content_6557738.htm

I'm glad the Chinese government and the Chinese people are clueing in on the Western media bias. Hopefully they start to realize how far down the rabbit hole goes.... ie Hollywood, commercials, ads, magazines, and the white population in general.

They still dont have an effing clue.

Even HK media promote AF?WM relationships on TVB and Atv and it pisses me off on how they are blowing the asshole gweilo's ego.

[awong]

They still dont have an effing clue.

Even HK media promote AF?WM relationships on TVB and Atv and it pisses me off on how they are blowing the asshole gweilo's ego.

no they dont, you are blowing what you see out of proporation give me examples b/c I see the focus on the main characters with chinese people acting well like chinese people or are you that stupid to pay attention to every single scene in a show to spot any background relationships that ARENT relevant to the story?

[ZhuBaJie]

Even HK media promote AF?WM relationships on TVB and Atv and it pisses me off on how they are blowing the asshole gweilo's ego.

ah, it comes full circle. media bias in Tibet? Obama vs. Clinton? war and peace? world hunger? aliens from Mars? it all leads back to AF/WM relationships.

[nightshade]

ah, it comes full circle. media bias in Tibet? Obama vs. Clinton? war and peace? world hunger? aliens from Mars? it all leads back to AF/WM relationships.

Hahahaha. Amazing.

[awong]

ah, it comes full circle. media bias in Tibet? Obama vs. Clinton? war and peace? world hunger? aliens from Mars? it all leads back to AF/WM relationships.

of course, everyone of our problems leads to wm/af relationships hahahaha

[ZhuBaJie]

They still dont have an effing clue.

oh by the way:
http://www29.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=6724646

that's HK's most popular forum. take a look at what people are saying. here's one example: "好傻好天真既係外國人".

[ktkbs]

let me start by saying i hate what communism did to china more than almost anyone on the planet

but this is total BS

tibetans have a better standard of living than native americans and australian aborigines do.

[cattygurl]

tibetans have a better standard of living than native americans and australian aborigines do.

That's not saying much though...

[SamuraiJack]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/03/24/vo.greece.protestors.ap

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/03/24/vo.greece.olympic.protest.ap

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel disdain for these "protesters". Honestly, they seem very similar to the Falun Gong and they seem to be well-funded and thrive on Western media attention.

Here's a conspiracy theory, but perhaps the Western governments are actually funding these people. The Tibet movement, the Epoch Times, Falun Gong, etc... and in Tibet's case, coercing the people to think that they *are* being oppressed. I honestly don't see how they're treated worse than the average Chinese citizen.

By the way, the second video is actually a white guy.

[nskripchun]

Here's a conspiracy theory, but perhaps the Western governments are actually funding these people. The Tibet movement, the Epoch Times, Falun Gong, etc... and in Tibet's case, coercing the people to think that they *are* being oppressed. I honestly don't see how they're treated worse than the average Chinese citizen.



Asymmetrical warfare by the CIA perhaps?

I agree with people's observations that the PRC isn't exactly very nice with it comes to issues of freedom of Tibetan religious practice or more autonomous rule by the Tibetans. Compare this of course to Hong Kong, which because of its history / economic importance enjoys status as a special administrative region. Tibet gets no special dispensation, especially since the government of the PRC doesn't want to be seen as weak or caving into lobbying by the Dalai Lama.

On the other hand, it isn't hard to see how these protests have been carefully timed to mess with the upcoming Beijing Olympics and "spoil" Chinese prestige. Most mainstream Western media are all to eager to jump on to the Sinophobia train - it reminds me of the Japan-bashing in the 80s. Supposedly neutral newspaper articles get colored with nuanced words that always have a suggestive undercurrent that China is a brutal, culturally-backward, repressive, exotic country that is completely inferior to the West. It's probably the one thing that Republicans and Democrats in our country can agree on... TEH CHINAMEN R EVIL!

It'll be interesting to see how things play out over the next few weeks. Maybe Chinese baby adoptions will spike.

[ktkbs]

The CIA did fund the bloody 1959 uprisings iirc

All of these media outlets crow and bleat about the "racial purity" of Tibetans being spoiled by "filthy, backwards Han" but that's not going to stop them from going to Southeast Asia for sex with children.

[minbo]

It's not like the situation in Tibet is a zero sum morality game.

The PRC is without a doubt guilty of occupying Tibet, forcibly relocating populations, importing people more aligned with the PRC to live in the region, suppressing religious, political and personal freedoms, many times violently.

The Tibet protesters are being in funded by outsiders and their organization is being helped by outsiders. How many free Tibet collections and volunteers are floating around out there? Certainly the funding and organizational help from those sources are probably not intended for any sort of violent uprising, but none the less, it is financial and organizational backing. Other entities with more clandestine purposes in all likelyhood are also assisting and funding the protests to embarrass or otherwise cause grief to the PRC. Outside involvement, either direct or indirect does not in any way alleviate the PRC or the Tibet protesters of the merit and guilt associated with any of their actions.

[wuwei]

Western media's reporting on Tibet is about as yellow journalism as you can get.

[nskripchun]

Interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

I noticed several of these misreported photos too...

[SamuraiJack]

The PRC is without a doubt guilty of occupying Tibet, forcibly relocating populations, importing people more aligned with the PRC to live in the region, suppressing religious, political and personal freedoms, many times violently.

Except it's not an "occupation". Tibet was part of the Qing dynasty until the British came.

The PRC government does not view itself as an occupying power and has vehemently denied allegations of demographic swamping. The PRC also does not recognize Greater Tibet as claimed by the government of Tibet in Exile, saying that the idea was engineered by foreign imperialists as a plot to divide China amongst themselves, (Mongolia being a striking precedent, gaining independence with Soviet backing and subsequently aligning itself with the Soviet Union) and that those areas outside the TAR were not controlled by the Tibetan government before 1959 in the first place, having been administered instead by other surrounding provinces for centuries.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif

I concur that China has been relocating populations, but it does that with all it's citizens, not just Tibetans. They moved millions of people from the 3 gorges area to build a dam.

As for suppression of religious freedoms and all the other things you mention, I think you've been following the western media too much. If you have specific examples that it's been doing anything different than to the rest of the Chinese population, then please share.


Interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

I noticed several of these misreported photos too...

I've seen this before and it's great that Chinese people are being proactive about this. The Olympics are a source of pride for Chinese around the world, and seeing people complain about China is finally enough to irk them.

[ktkbs]

I don't really see the Olympics as a source of pride though. They shouldn't give a damn about what the rest of the world thinks about them; the less foreign influence the better.

[minbo]

Regardless of label for the action or any moral posturing for or against the action, an undisputed fact is that the PRC extended it's sovereignty over territory which has a significant percentage of the population that does not wish to be ruled by the PRC. I'm not going to get into a debate over subjective interpretation of the facts; if it constitutes as an "occupation" or not based upon whatever historical justification anyone has for or against this action, or if the result is better or worse for the population of that region.

I will say that on a similar note, I do believe that the US is similarly "occupying" a lot of land which belongs Native Americans, with past (and some present actions) including suppression of political and personal freedoms, suppression of religion, depopulation, forced ethnic relocations, etc. The main difference is just that US mostly finished their dirty business some 50 years earlier than China did with Tibet, and the US has a propensity to wag their fingers at other people's problems while ignoring their own. Specifically for the Black Hills area, much of South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming, the US occupation is patently illegal. Even so I do not support turning the Ft. Laramie treaty territory over to allow the creation of a separate country.

As for suppression of religion, I believe that the events surrounding the selection of panchen lama would qualify for many people. If not, the treatment of Biship Jia would also constitute as suppression of freedom of religion.

Edit to add:
By the way, that animated pic is really cool. I remember that a while ago someone posted a link to a similar one for Korea, I wish that I had bookmarked it...

[ktkbs]

That's not enough by the rioters' standards. They want to remove everyone that's not Tibetan in their "historic" area. If that's the case, everyone in Australia, Siberia, South America, United States, and Canada should be repatriated to their country of origin.

[RebelAzn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo&eurl=http://www.internetfreearcade.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=180

Bottom line is there is quite a bit of debate about whether Tibet belongs to China. Dali Lama has said Tibetans are as much as Chinese as Chinese are Tibetans. In other words, both are tied together and Tibetans are Chinese. Read the article below about Dali Lama. If the west chooses to support Tibet to go independent, then every white person in America needs to pack his/her bags and go back to Europe and hand over United States to Native Americans, the real Americans. Whenever you see China bashing in the media, please keep in it is in CIA and west's interest to weaken China as much as possible by creating civil unrest. China is the only nation in the world that can stand up against any western power head to head and many western powers are very scare of that. Rise of China is not a good thing for America and people need to keep that in mind when they watch western news. Would America support Iraq invasion if there was no WMD? Don't ever estimate power of the media and propaganda. Asian Americans of all people should be well aware how much media power has affected each and everyone of us in the USA.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Tibet-part-of-China-Dalai-Lama-agrees/2005/03/14/1110649129309.html

Tibet part of China, Dalai Lama agrees
By Hamish McDonald, Herald Correspondent in Beijing
March 15, 2005

The Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of Tibet.

Tibet's exiled leader, the Dalai Lama, has abandoned his longstanding position calling for Tibetans to rule their homeland within the Chinese communist republic, declaring Tibet to be within the tradition of China.

The shift in his position has emerged in a series of media interviews and a statement last Thursday marking the anniversary of the failed uprising by Tibetans against Chinese occupation in 1959, when the Buddhist monk-leader went into exile in India.

The Dalai Lama, who turns 70 this year, appears to have accepted China's control over Tibet's political and economic affairs.

This is a distinct climbdown from the plan he has proposed up to now, first delivered in a speech at the European Parliament in Strasbourg in 1988, that Tibet should be a "self-governing democratic political entity" with Beijing responsible for its external defence and foreign affairs.

The Chinese Government has consistently dismissed the Dalai Lama's Strasbourg speech as "lacking sincerity" and a fitful dialogue between Beijing and the exiled Tibetan leadership has made little progress.
AdvertisementAdvertisement

No response came immediately to his new ideas, expressed in an interview with Hong Kong's South China Morning Post.

"This is the message I wish to deliver to China. I am not in favour of separation," the Dalai Lama was quoted yesterday as saying. "Tibet is a part of the People's Republic of China. It is an autonomous region of the People's Republic of China. Tibetan culture and Buddhism are part of Chinese culture. Many young Chinese like Tibetan culture as a tradition of China."

He said Tibet was underdeveloped and materially backward. "So, for our own interest, we are willing to be part of the People's Republic of China, to have it govern and guarantee to preserve our Tibetan culture, spirituality and our environment.

"But we can contribute to the spiritual side ... China will turn to its 5000-year history of tradition, of which Tibet is a part."

The Dalai Lama's formal statement last Thursday was more critical of dissatisfaction inside Tibet, and more vague about his "middle way" political proposals, which he said were gaining wider support, including from "certain quarters of the intellectual circle from within China".

Unless it emerges that the report has seriously distorted the Dalai Lama's views, the changed policy will cause anguish among many younger Tibetan exiles and their foreign supporters. The Dalai Lama recognised this. "The Tibetan youth organisation criticises me as taking this approach out of desperation," he said. "No, it comes out of a broader interest."

But the deal he is proposing - a bargain between a Tibet needing economic development, and a China in search of spiritual guidance - is also unlikely to cut ice with China's President, Hu Jintao, a materialist who promotes a "harmonious society" under unchallenged Communist Party leadership, and who has not so far mentioned a need for religion.

Along with the Dalai Lama meeting, the South China Morning Post has also gained the first foreign interview with the boy China installed eight years ago as the current Panchen Lama, Tibet's second-ranking Buddhist figure, after whisking away the candidate recognised by the Dalai Lama and most Tibetans as the genuine reincarnation.

Unsurprisingly, the 14-year-old has a message for Tibetan exiles. "I wish Tibetan people here and living abroad to love their country and home town, and put their efforts into economic development to raise living standards and development in their homeland," he was quoted as saying.

[minbo]

At least it is not all completely biased (against the PRC) journalism. Another article besides the one I linked to earlier...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/03/26/ST2008032603290.html

[RebelAzn]

At least it is not all completely biased (against the PRC) journalism. Another article besides the one I linked to earlier...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/03/26/ST2008032603290.html

There is absolutely no excuse for some of those rioters. The west's media likes to paint a picture where PLA was cracking down on bunch of helpless rioters. This is hardly the case. Do you think USA would stand by when bunch of anti-war rioters decided to burn down half of the NYC? I understand where some Tibetans are coming from, but burning innocent people's businesses and houses are not the way to convey their message. I understand rioters want to send a message before the Olympics. However, I think doubt most Tibetans support this "Free Tibet" message. West needs to judge itself first before trying to butt into China's business. Most of those people that go around blowing "Free Tibet" horns have no understanding of the history of the region nor do they care. Would white people ever get out of the USA and hand the land back to the original owners? If the answer is no then the west should judge themselves before China. China has claim to Tibet long before USA ever existed.

Who is to say Tibet should be freed and not belong to China? People forget China is a multi-culture society like the USA with 56 different minorities. There are Tibetan Chinese, Mongolian Chinese, Korean Chinese and many others.

[ZhuBaJie]

At least it is not all completely biased (against the PRC) journalism. Another article besides the one I linked to earlier...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/03/26/ST2008032603290.html

March 27th? The Australian reported the Kentwood story 9 days ago.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23401794-25837,00.html

and the Guardian reported eye witness accounts of violence as early as the 15th.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/15/tibet.china2

[lycheng]

Regardless of label for the action or any moral posturing for or against the action, an undisputed fact is that the PRC extended it's sovereignty over territory which has a significant percentage of the population that does not wish to be ruled by the PRC. I'm not going to get into a debate over subjective interpretation of the facts; if it constitutes as an "occupation" or not based upon whatever historical justification anyone has for or against this action, or if the result is better or worse for the population of that region.

Yes, the image is that we have a strong power extending it's sovereignty over a population who resent the "occupation". This is similar to the image of Israel "occupying" the Palestinian territories. (I put occupation in quotes as this is loaded word).

However, unlike the Israeli/Palistinian conflict, where the West often excuse Israel's use of force, no one would say China's use of force is justified. Is it because the image of the peaceful monk is often associated with Tibetans, whereas, violent terrorists are associated with your typical Palestinian?

[ktkbs]

which Tibetans consider a gesture of subjection

I like how these people always speak for Tibetans even though they, and these Canadian or American born so-called Tibetans (lol, did you look at Lhadon, she isn't Tibetan at all) have never been in Tibet in their lives.

[SamuraiJack]

Why they hate China...

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12585

[ktkbs]

After some deliberation I think I'm going to side with the white people because they know everything

[nskripchun]

Latest updates on the torch in SF... crazy.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/09/MNDS102IIM.DTL&tsp=1


Torch leaves San Francisco after surprise route designed to thwart protesters
By Rachel Gordon, Cecilia M. Vega, Wyatt Buchanan, Tanya Schevitz,Marisa Lagos, Chronicle Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 9, 2008

(04-09) 17:18 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- San Francisco leaders surprised thousands of supporters and protesters today by rerouting the Beijing Olympic torch run from its advertised route to a picturesque course that avoided the throngs of demonstrators along the Embarcadero.

The result was a much more low-key event than anticipated.

Some protesters caught up to the run along its surprise route, but most stayed at Justin Herman Plaza, where a closing ceremony was planned. That ceremony was canceled in lieu of a quieter affair at San Francisco International Airport. The torch is expected to leave for Buenos Aires on a China Airways flight.

The torch was originally scheduled to head from McCovey Cove along the waterfront to Fisherman's Wharf and back to Justin Herman Plaza. But after an opening ceremony, the torch was instead driven from McCovey Cove to Van Ness Avenue, where pairs of runners - buffered by dozens of police officers - carried it north to Bay Street and Marina Boulevard and onto Doyle Drive near the Golden Gate Bridge. That route was originally discounted by city officials as being too high profile.

The torch finally headed out of the city around 3:30 p.m. and arrived at the airport at 4:15 p.m. The motorcade bearing the torch was immediately whisked to a parking area near the international terminal and quickly placed off limits to the half dozen protesters and a clutch of news crews. Airport officials said a chartered Air China plane was due to pull up to the terminal at 6 p.m.

The route changes allowed city officials to avoid the majority of protesters who interrupted recent runs in Paris and London, though some people sprinted to catch up with the convoy as it reached the Marina district today.

But as word filtered through the crowds at Justin Herman Plaza that there would be no ending ceremony after all, many reactions ranged from deflated to flat-out angry.

"I am very upset," said Rosie Salis, 51, who came in from Foster City to see the relay. "There were lots of people here with their kids. They had to wait for four or five hours, and it's very disappointing."

Demonstrators, including Harper Honan who brought a Tibetan flag to the Embarcadero, were also upset. Honan rode her bicycle to Van Ness Avenue to catch some of the run, but said the city should not have changed the route.

"They want to purposely thwart any organized protest that had been planned," she said.

City officials said this morning that they planned to cut the relay route short because of the large number of demonstrators, but never indicated that they would completely change the course. City Hall sources familiar with the police response said the current route had been the plan since at least this morning, something the mayor denied.

The bait-and-switch was immediately blasted by Board of Supervisors President Aaron Peskin, a vocal critic of Mayor Gavin Newsom's administration.

"Gavin Newsom runs San Francisco the way the premier of China runs his country - secrecy, lies, misinformation, lack of transparency and manipulating the populace," Peskin said. "He misled supporters and opponents of the run. People brought their families and their children, and (mayoral officials) hatched a cynical plan to please the Bush State Department and the Chinese government because of the incredible influence of money.

"He did it so China can report they had a great torch run," Peskin said. "It's the worst kind of government - government by deceit and misinformation."

The mayor, reached by phone near the end of the torch run, denied that city officials knew early this morning that the torch route would change.

Newsom said he met with torch runners shortly before the opening ceremony and asked them whether the route should be changed or the run canceled.

Newsom said he and Police Chief Heather Fong had decided to alter the route at 11 a.m., and changed it yet again when they realized throngs of people were massing in huge numbers - particularly around the ballpark, where the most intense clashes occurred.

"We felt it was in everyone's best interest that we augment the route," Newsom said. "I believe people were afforded the right to protest and support the torch. You saw that in the streets. They were not denied the ability to protest."

Peter Ueberroth, head of the U.S. Olympic Committee, was with the mayor during at least part of the torch run and praised the way the city handled event.

"The city of San Francisco, from a global perspective, will be applauded," he said.

The torch was lit at McCovey Cove around 1:20 p.m. and the first runner, surrounded by Chinese and American police, headed away from the crowd and into the Pier 48 building on the waterfront. About 20 minutes later, a convoy of vehicles, including vans and police on motorcycles, pulled out of the building and headed through downtown and the Tenderloin to Van Ness Avenue.

The convoy stopped at Van Ness Avenue and Pine Street and the torch - along with several runners - was unloaded from one of the cars. The runners, carrying the flame in pairs, then began to make their way north on Van Ness Avenue.

The torch was handed off every half-block or so to a new pair of runners.

As the route progressed, the crowds slowly grew. At one point, a knot of pro-Tibet demonstrators yelled, "Shame on China! How dare you represent China!" In return, a group of torch supporters yelled back: "They represent the U.S.!"

By the time the runners got to Broadway, the crowds were five people deep on the sidewalk, mostly screaming support and craning for good views beyond the police lines.

Nancy Chan of San Francisco, with her son Christian, 4, ran over to the route from her house two blocks away when she heard that the route was along Van Ness instead of the waterfront.

"This is a once-in-a-lifetime thing for us to see the torch," she said. "There is a lot of politics around it, but that is the great thing about America - the free speech."

Joan Woodaver, who works near Van Ness, saw on television that the route had altered, so she ran over with a sign reading "Free Tibet and Free Burma."

"I really admire the Dalai Lama, and I feel disturbed that the government of China treats people so poorly," said Woodaver, watching with her 12-year-old sons Jason and Jarron as the torch was trotted past her.

Thirty pro-Tibetan demonstrators caught up to the torch near Francisco Street, where several got in the way of one of the motorcycle police officers and were knocked over.

One woman in particular went down hard after a police officer was unable to steer away quickly enough and hit her with his front tire.

Early this morning, thousands of people gathered along the planned route on the Embarcadero, with pro-torch demonstrators facing off against protesters hoping to draw attention to the nation's human rights record. Many of the pro-torch demonstrators carried red Chinese flags and said they were bused in by the Chinese consulate and other pro-China groups, though others said they had come of their own accord.

Meanwhile, many of the protesters carried Tibetan flags and preached independence for the country. Others were on hand to support Burma or rail against China's backing of the Sudanese government in its war in Darfur.

Some of the most heated exchanges occurred in Willie Mays Plaza near the ballpark. But as it became clear that the torch would not be headed down the Embarcadero, tension also began to rise in the big crowd assembled in front of the Ferry Building.

Around 2:15 p.m., flag-waving pro-China demonstrators attacked a 7-foot-wide pro-Tibet sign hanging on the Ferry Building. A man tried to restore the sign, but a swarm of opponents surrounded him. Another man rushed from the crowd and grabbed one of the China flags from a protester, triggering a pushing match between the two sides. Eventually, the squabble dissipated and a pro-China man grabbed the Tibet sign and tore it clean off the wall.

Police said clashes related to the protests had been minor. But the situation was tense for hours before the run, and at least one person was detained in front of the ballpark this morning. A few hours later, a confrontation between the two sides escalated to a physical violence, when a San Francisco man named Kevin Johnson, 48, walked into a crowd of torch supporters and began yelling, "Communists!"

The crowd encircled Johnson and the confrontation escalated when Johnson pulled a Chinese flag off a man's backpack. Then, someone grabbed Johnson's throat and another person punched him in the face before police intervened and walked him to safety.

Earlier, pro-Tibetan protesters in the area complained that they had been pepper sprayed, although they didn't know who did it. San Francisco resident Matt Winger, 22, flushed his red eyes with water and said, "It stings like hell."

There were some questions this morning about whether police were allowing protesters to access Justin Herman Plaza, but officials said they were simply warning people that they could not guarantee their safety because of the large number of pro-torch demonstrators gathered there.

[blockthebox]

Unbelievable. Morons who don't have a single original thought just running amuck on the streets of San Francisco. Sigh.

[ZhuBaJie]

bitches are angry they didn't get a chance to snatch the torch and put out the flame. boo hoo.

[DONKEY]

Unbelievable. Morons who don't have a single original thought just running amuck on the streets of San Francisco. Sigh.
yeah but isn't that pretty much any normal day in san francisco? not that i hate SF, but it seems to be a magnet for that type of shit.

[CJF]

oops, missed this thread

here's another post of what I wrote on EAN:

Most of you guys are failing to see the historical significance of these events. These white people aren't protesting for Tibet. They're protesting AGAINST China.

The Olympic games coming to China is symbolically the beginning of the end of Western patriarchy in Asia. A new power has arisen, and white people are scared. They are used to seeing Asians as week cowardly people, and they cannot stand seeing 6'3, 200 lb Chinese para troopers running through the streets of their cities.

They see Tibet and Burma as their last hopes towards reinstalling some new common wealth's in the nation. In Tibet, they want to install the Dalai Lama who would be getting aid from Western nations due to how resource poor the region is. In Burma they want to install the white washed daughter of a former king.

Western colonies are dwindling in Asia. Islam is spreading more as a nationalistic movement in Thailand, with people sick of Westerners treating the nation like a whore house. Islam is spreading in the Phillipines, sick of EA's controlling all the power. I'm not saying this will be the century of Asia. But it definately won't be a century of Western domination.

[wuwei]

lol, it seems like they sent some of those Military guys along with the torch.

These guys are not civilians, they dont give a shit about local officals, the press, or bleeding heart liberals. They probably got an executive order to guard the torch, and they know if they fail, their life is basically ruined. Do you honestly think these protesters have a chance against these guys?

It sounds like these white assholes just got owned and are crying like little bitches.

[nskripchun]

lol, it seems like they sent some of those Military guys along with the torch.

These guys are not civilians, they dont give a shit about local officals, the press, or bleeding heart liberals. They probably got an executive order to guard the torch, and they know if they fail, their life is basically ruined. Do you honestly think these protesters have a chance against these guys?

It sounds like these white assholes just got owned and are crying like little bitches.

Supposedly the blue guys are the equivalent to Chinese special forces or SWAT.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/questions-raised-over-mysterious-men-in-blue-805747.html

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/pomfretschina/2008/04/who_are_the_guys_in_the_blue_t.html

Get outta the way suckas.

[RebelAzn]

Supposedly the blue guys are the equivalent to Chinese special forces or SWAT.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/questions-raised-over-mysterious-men-in-blue-805747.html

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/pomfretschina/2008/04/who_are_the_guys_in_the_blue_t.html

Get outta the way suckas.

You mean like these guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDrho-1A6M

[DONKEY]

who is that pot-bellied dude carrying the torch in that photo in the second article? he doesn't look like an athlete. that's weird.
anyways i find the torch ceremony a bit ridiculous and unnecessary. we all know about the olympics, the torch isn't gonna bring extra people out to watch the games. anyways how much are tickets for the events going to cost?
and right now there are private "security contractors" hanging out in a few different countries, armed to the teeth, who don't really have any problem with shooting down unarmed civilians in Iraq so the torch guards seem pretty mild in comparison.

[badwill]

Some white protester who can't find Tibet on a Map:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUMz3Z2ChYM

Great article on the situation:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/99feb/tibet.htm

Oh yeah, Western demonizations of Chinese secruity guards (Damn I hope people in Asia will get with the program and be come more united, Western countries at the core are jus racist):

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/4963


If I put myself in an ignorant white person's shoes, I would probably join the Free Tibet too.

You pretty much have two choices. You have the Free, Democracy, Human Rights team, and you have Communist Country stealing our jobs with cheap labor team. It is pretty obvious.

I mean they have the banner that say Free, Democracy, Human Rights. All that sounds good. Iraqis Freedom, Democracy for Iraqs, Human Rights for Iraq...they all sounds good.

<>>>

God I hate these white people. Western powers have hijacked these words to the point that their meanings are diminished. Now they put them on every single cause and it justifies everything, even going to war and killing people. In the end, they all say that it was for "their good". It's like being in the colonial day with a modern version of the "White man's burden".

[SamuraiJack]

Thirty pro-Tibetan demonstrators caught up to the torch near Francisco Street, where several got in the way of one of the motorcycle police officers and were knocked over.

One woman in particular went down hard after a police officer was unable to steer away quickly enough and hit her with his front tire.

An excellent example of the government brutality that exists against peaceful protesters in this country.

[nskripchun]

You mean like these guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDrho-1A6M

Cool to see more photos of the Chinese soldiers rocking the QBZ-95 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95)...

[RebelAzn]

Great read: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/elle/march_2008/myth_and_reality_of_tibet.htm

I am more convinced than ever people here that cry Free Tibet has zero clue on anything to do with Tibet historical wise.

[RebelAzn]

I was reading SF Chronicle and one of the articles claimed all the pro China supporters were sent there by the Chinese government. Anyway, one poster from China summarized the situation pretty well:

When We were labeled the Sick man of Asia, We were called The Peril; Then We are billed to be the next Superpower, you called us The threat. When We closed our doors, You smuggled Opium and forced Open our Market; Then We Embraced Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs. When We were weak and falling apart, You marched in with your troops and occupied your dirty concessions where Chinese and Dogs were not allowed; Then We tried putting the broken pieces back together, Free Tibet you screamed, it was an invasion! (Even Woodrow Wilson Couldnt give back Birth Place of Confucius to Us, But He did buy a ticket for the Famine Relief Ball for us.) So, We tried Communism and self-reliance, You hated us for being Communists; Then We embraced Capitalism and self-enrichment, You hate us for being Capitalists. When We have a Billion People, you said we were destroying the planet; Then We tried to limit our numbers, you said We have no human rights.

When We were Poor, You treated us like dogs (Chinese and Dogs, remember); Then We Loan you money, You blame us for Your debts. When We build our industries, You called us Polluters; When we sell you goods, You blame us for global warming. When We buy oil, You called that Exploitation and Genocide; When You sent troop to fight for oil, You called that Awe and Shock, it was Liberation.

When We were mired in Cultural Revolution, You cackled and said there should be Rules of Law for us. When We uphold law and order against Violence, You called that Brutal Suppression. When Your city got burnt, you call them terrorists; When our City got burnt, you called them the Oppressed. When We were silent, You said you want us to have Free Speech; When We are silent no more, You say we are Brainwashed-Xenophobic. Why do you hate us so much? We asked. No, You Answered, We dont hate You. Well, We dont Hate You either, But do You understand Us? Of course We do, You said, after all We have NYT, CNN, and BBC. I GIVE Up!

[SamuraiJack]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/ffximage/2008/04/10/oly10a,0.jpg
A Tibetan supporter, right, argues with a Chinese supporter at a rally for China's Olympic torch at the Ferry Plaza in San Francisco.

[kekekekyle]

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/20/20534_large.jpg
hehe

[RebelAzn]

Read below:

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12585

This article kind of summarized the whole situation quite nicely.

[Shadow_Reaper]

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2008/04/09/olympictorchpro-cp-4651194.jpg
A Tibetan supporter, right, argues with a Chinese supporter at a rally for China's Olympic torch at the Ferry Plaza in San Francisco.

I wonder does that asscap on the right know where Tibet is without saying "It's on the border between india and the Himalayas".

[nskripchun]

When We were labeled the Sick man of Asia, We were called The Peril; Then We are billed to be the next Superpower, you called us The threat. When We closed our doors, You smuggled Opium and forced Open our Market; Then We Embraced Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs. When We were weak and falling apart, You marched in with your troops and occupied your dirty concessions where Chinese and Dogs were not allowed; Then We tried putting the broken pieces back together, Free Tibet you screamed, it was an invasion! (Even Woodrow Wilson Couldnt give back Birth Place of Confucius to Us, But He did buy a ticket for the Famine Relief Ball for us.) So, We tried Communism and self-reliance, You hated us for being Communists; Then We embraced Capitalism and self-enrichment, You hate us for being Capitalists. When We have a Billion People, you said we were destroying the planet; Then We tried to limit our numbers, you said We have no human rights.

When We were Poor, You treated us like dogs (Chinese and Dogs, remember); Then We Loan you money, You blame us for Your debts. When We build our industries, You called us Polluters; When we sell you goods, You blame us for global warming. When We buy oil, You called that Exploitation and Genocide; When You sent troop to fight for oil, You called that Awe and Shock, it was Liberation.

When We were mired in Cultural Revolution, You cackled and said there should be Rules of Law for us. When We uphold law and order against Violence, You called that Brutal Suppression. When Your city got burnt, you call them terrorists; When our City got burnt, you called them the Oppressed. When We were silent, You said you want us to have Free Speech; When We are silent no more, You say we are Brainwashed-Xenophobic. Why do you hate us so much? We asked. No, You Answered, We dont hate You. Well, We dont Hate You either, But do You understand Us? Of course We do, You said, after all We have NYT, CNN, and BBC. I GIVE Up!

Nice quote find, RA.

[SamuraiJack]

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/20/20534_large.jpg
hehe

They forgot one thing:


<<< <<< <<< <<< <<< Land taken from Native Americans >>> >>> >> >> >>>
VV V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V

[zhangfei]

Great read: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/elle/march_2008/myth_and_reality_of_tibet.htm

I am more convinced than ever people here that cry Free Tibet has zero clue on anything to do with Tibet historical wise.

No, Tibetan culture is not dead; it is flourishing as never before..

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/elle/march_2008/myth_and_reality_of_tibet.htm

I was in Tibet a year and half ago. the trip changed the way I looked at tibet. it wasn't a horrible place. i supported/support tibet independent movement, but i realized most of what i read from mainstream media in the US was bs.

[nskripchun]

The now infamous Tibet protester assault on the handicap girl in the wheelchair...

Video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NDLfj8cKmc0

Pics:
http://www.firmamenter.com/archives/639

[Shadow_Reaper]

^Disgusting behaviour. My God dont they have any civility in them at all?

[kekekekyle]

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/oddballs/article.html?in_article_id=143026&in_page_id=46

This made me laugh, go Jackie!

[nightshade]

Some chick from the PRC who attends Duke is being called a traitor on the Internets.

Oh, and I want to slap the Free Tibet protester in the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/17student.html?pagewanted=1&hp



Chinese Student in U.S. Is Caught in Confrontation
By SHAILA DEWAN
Published: April 17, 2008

DURHAM, N.C. — On the day the Olympic torch was carried through San Francisco last week, Grace Wang, a Chinese freshman at Duke University, came out of her dining hall to find a handful of students gathered for a pro-Tibet vigil facing off with a much larger pro-China counterdemonstration.

Ms. Wang, who had friends on both sides, tried to get the two groups to talk, participants said. She began traversing what she called “the middle ground,” asking the groups’ leaders to meet and making bargains. She said she agreed to write “Free Tibet, Save Tibet” on one student’s back only if he would speak with pro-Chinese demonstrators. She pleaded and lectured. In one photo, she is walking toward a phalanx of Chinese flags and banners, her arms overhead in a “timeout” T.

But the would-be referee went unheeded. With Chinese anger stoked by disruption of the Olympic torch relays and criticism of government policy toward Tibet, what was once a favorite campus cause — the Dalai Lama’s people — had become a dangerous flash point, as Ms. Wang was soon to find out.

The next day, a photo appeared on an Internet forum for Chinese students with a photo of Ms. Wang and the words “traitor to your country” emblazoned in Chinese across her forehead. Ms. Wang’s Chinese name, identification number and contact information were posted, along with directions to her parents’ apartment in Qingdao, a Chinese port city.

Salted with ugly rumors and manipulated photographs, the story of the young woman who was said to have taken sides with Tibet spread through China’s most popular Web sites, at each stop generating hundreds or thousands of raging, derogatory posts, some even suggesting that Ms. Wang — a slight, rosy 20-year-old — be burned in oil. Someone posted a photo of what was purported to be a bucket of feces emptied on the doorstep of her parents, who had gone into hiding.

“If you return to China, your dead corpse will be chopped into 10,000 pieces,” one person wrote in an e-mail message to Ms. Wang. “Call the human flesh search engines!” another threatened, using an Internet phrase that implies physical, as opposed to virtual, action.

In an interview Wednesday, Ms. Wang said she had been needlessly vilified.

“If traitors are people who want to harm China, then I’m not part of it,” she said. “Those people who attack me so severely were the ones who hurt China’s image even more.”

She added: “They don’t know what do they mean by ‘loving China.’ It’s not depriving others of their right to speak; it’s not asking me or other people to shut up.”

In a flattering profile in 2006, Ms. Wang was described in a Qingdao newspaper as believing she was “born for politics.” She writes poetry in classical Chinese, plays a traditional string instrument called the guzheng, and participated in democracy discussion boards back home, she said.

Ms. Wang said she was not in favor of Tibetan independence, but she said problems could be reduced if the two sides understood each other better.

Since riots in Tibet broke out last month, campuses including Cornell, the University of Washington and the University of California, Irvine, have seen a wave of counterdemonstrations.

When Ms. Wang encountered the two demonstrations last week, the Chinese students seemed to expect her to join them, she said. But she hesitated.

“They were really shocked to see that I was deciding, because the Chinese side thought I shouldn’t even decide at all,” she said. “In the end I decided not to be on either side, because they were too extreme.”

Daniel R. Cordero, a member of the Duke Human Rights Coalition and an organizer of the pro-Tibet vigil, said he was handing out literature when Ms. Wang came up and pointed to the counterprotesters.

“She was like, ‘Why are you focusing on the Duke students? Let’s have a dialogue with these people,’ ” he said. “And I’m thinking, oh come on, seriously, that’s not going to help anything.”

Some of Ms. Wang’s efforts to mediate were met by insults and obscenities from the Chinese students.

“She stood her ground; she’s a really brave girl,” said Adam Weiss, the student on whose back Ms. Wang wrote “Free Tibet.” “You have 200 of your own fellow nationalists yelling at you and calling you a traitor and even threatening to kill you.”

At Ms. Wang’s behest, he ultimately spoke to some of the Chinese contingent, finding, he said, that “we could compromise and say we all wanted increased human rights for all Chinese, and especially for Tibetans.”

Sherry, a Chinese graduate student who declined to give her last name for fear of being harassed, had a less heroic view.

“She claimed she wanted to make communications between both sides, but actually she did nothing before that night. She didn’t communicate with any organizers and actually was just performing,” Sherry said. But she called the backlash against Ms. Wang “horrible.”

“There are a few students that are very angry at her,” she said, “but there are many others who try to protect her, try to speak for her. Actually, the majority didn’t think she did so wrong to be treated like that.”

She said Ms. Wang had squandered some sympathy when, in an article in The Duke Chronicle, she blamed the Duke Chinese Students and Scholars Association for helping to release her information through its e-mail list.

This week, three officers of the association explained in an open letter that the mailing list was public and called the verbal attacks on Ms. Wang “troubling and heinous.” Her personal information and other offensive posts were removed “once they were brought to our attention,” the letter said. Student groups criticized the association for allowing them to be posted at all.

Zhizong Li, the president of the association, referred most questions to the university but said that only about a third of the pro-China demonstrators were association members. Duke has just over 500 Chinese students.

Ms. Wang, who has retained a lawyer, said pulling her personal information off the Web was not enough. “I will be seen as a traitor forever, and they can still harm my parents,” she said.

But for a woman under threat of dismemberment, she seemed remarkably sanguine — even upbeat.

“My parents are very tolerant to me,” she explained. “They were really disappointed in me for a long time, and I persuaded them to think differently.

“If I can change my parents, I can probably change others.”

[Shadow_Reaper]

Some chick from the PRC who attends Duke is being called a traitor on the Internets.

Oh, and I want to slap the Free Tibet protester in the article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/us/17student.html?pagewanted=1&hp

obviously the bitch has been brainwashed by the media.


I really hope she would get maimed, tortured, stabbed, mutilated and hacked to death b4 she dies xD

[ZhuBaJie]

yeah awesome. those pro-Tibet dumbasses are setting a precedent on being disruptive to the Olympics.

[RebelAzn]

Here is a site from UK that discusses all this anti-China protests and the hidden racism behind the whole thing. There are a ton of articles. BTW, this is not China propaganda but a take from people in England who actually see some of things as they actually are.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/issues/C136/

[zhangfei]

i am in australia now. picking up a local newspaper today. there was an opinion piece about tibet and the olympics. blah, blah, then hitler's name appeared, which cracked me up. i knew soon or later someone would invoke his name because white people love to compare everything with hitler.

[Subwaybrum]

When white countries host the olympics, the torch relay is about peace across borders and cultures.

When China hosts the olympics, they're like hitler cause hitler did it to show off the power of his country...