Just Say ‘No’

[t-tocs]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2008/03/137_21064.html

By David Thiessen

Recently a small group of foreigners have taken it upon themselves to form an ``association'' to, as they say, represent native English teachers (NETs) against the ``abuses'' heaped upon them by their Korean employers.

They say they want to be ``the voice'' of the foreign English teacher by ``dialoguing'' with parents, negotiating with the employers as well as the Korean government. They have set up a website and filled it with different areas of life that the Net will face upon arrival.

Is this organization a good thing? Will it help the Net in the long run? Will it make a difference? Not really as its origin is rooted in arrogance, selfishness and all the other negative characteristics of life. It was not founded to help the industry or the Korean students but to impose the Western way on a country that is not Western and who have the right to determine how their industries will be run.

I looked at their website and not only was it rife with spelling mistakes but it contained exaggerations, false accusations, misinformation and bad advice (to name a few of their errors). It is not a proper website if one wants to be ``the voice'' of the teacher but in reality it is a website for those with superiority complexes, arrogance and an elitist attitude and provides just another avenue for the crooked NET to use to whine and unjustly complain.

One poster on their discussion forum described this ``association's'' actions as ``taking a page out of the Nazi handbook'' and he/she is right. Take a close look at what they are doing and saying as their actions and words have usurped the democratic process and their self-appointed is exactly what the Nazis and other dictators have done. That poster was immediately banned from the discussion forum, which shows that the people in charge will not tolerate dissent or objective and clear thinking.

This organization is clearly not for the benefit of the industry or the students as they wish to impose their restrictions on who can or cannot be employed by this industry, which they do not own. The have taken this position without proper procedures or authority which is another tactic used by those who wish to control others.

Clearly the foundation of this organization is not in the best interests of the NET as they will not have to pay the price if a teacher follows their advice and loses out on an opportunity. You do, not them and that is a risk that is not worth the gamble.

Yes the foundation in which this organization is not set in what is good, honest, or even what is right as they seek to ``right'' perceived wrongs and make all incidents the fault of the Korean people, government and employer. They paint a very one-sided picture, pointing the finger at the Koreans forgetting that approximately 80% of the problems faced by a NET has been brought on by the NET themselves.

This is because too many people who come here want everything to be like the West and they have this sense of entitlement that the Korean country owes them for simply showing up at the airport. The Koreans do not owe the Net anything; they are providing employment, benefits and proper channels to use when there are problems in exchange for teaching.

There is a big omission in the actions of this group and the majority of Nets in this country. They pursue retribution for the alleged violations against them, demand unjust and unfair pay raises, along with many other unrealistic demands as their greed and selfishness direct their behavior.

This omission is that they forget how immigrants were and are treated in their own land and instead of pursuing their goals with arrogance and vindictiveness, they should be humbled and learn a lesson they need to take back to their own countries. The NET here only gets a taste of what it was like for people of different races or ideas experienced when they first landed and lived in the west.

Before trying to change this country, take your lessons and return to your own country and improve the treatment of all people first. When you do that then you may have the right to try and change Korea. Until that happens, this association means nothing and is nothing but hypocritical at best. At worst it is neo-Nazism as ``superior'' foreigners think they can dictate to another country what they should or shouldn't do and that is just wrong.

So when someone asks you to join this ``association'' ― JUST SAY NO.

[nightshade]

I looked at their website and not only was it rife with spelling mistakes but it contained exaggerations, false accusations, misinformation and bad advice (to name a few of their errors). It is not a proper website if one wants to be ``the voice'' of the teacher but in reality it is a website for those with superiority complexes, arrogance and an elitist attitude and provides just another avenue for the crooked NET to use to whine and unjustly complain.

Haha, what a bunch of retards.

[Hater Depot]

JUST LIKE NAZIS ZOMG11!!1

Maybe the spelling errors etc. he mentions are on the forums but they're not on the main pages.

http://atek.or.kr/index.html

The international ESL industry sucks. Everybody knows that. It starts with the school owners who typically don't know shit about language learning and teaching and give even less of a shit about what kind of people they hire. It's pretty much the same at all levels.

[kimtae]

David Thiessen is archaeologist on the Pusanweb. Search his name and see how he's mocked and scorned. He's a complete idiot and a possible child molestor to boot; research his old topics there to see his position on criminal background checks for teachers and some odd stuff will com up. He also belongs to a divorced fathers advocacy group despite never having been married nor ever having had children and he once complained that life in Korea lacked the charm of life in Thailand where one can "get a prostitute for the same price as a large pizza in Korea". Quite a piece of humanity he is.

[ktkbs]

Most of the "English teachers" are very unqualified. It's true that a lot of the schools are run by incompetents looking to bilk ESL students who are enamored with Hollywood and all the other false faces of the Anglosphere.

[kimtae]

Thiessen's biggest fear of a teachers' union has less to do with protecting korean sensibilities and more to do with his own fear that a group like NET will take away his own livelihood. I am actually in favor of a teachers' union in Korea as I believe it will make it easier to address certain abuses in the system including not only crooked language insititute owners who rip off students as well as teachers but also the problem of unqualified and often suspect teachers (Thiessen and his own attitudes on child molestation would certainly be challenged).

[sab]

Thiessen's biggest fear of a teachers' union has less to do with protecting korean sensibilities and more to do with his own fear that a group like NET will take away his own livelihood. I am actually in favor of a teachers' union in Korea as I believe it will make it easier to address certain abuses in the system including not only crooked language insititute owners who rip off students as well as teachers but also the problem of unqualified and often suspect teachers (Thiessen and his own attitudes on child molestation would certainly be challenged).

I can't believe I'm going to agree with Kimtae, lol.

A teachers union would be a good move for the English Hagwon industry if correctly ran. The move the Korean government (although a little ill planned) of requiring criminal background checks was a great move and hopefully it will eventually move to a more serious educatational requirement rather than the four year degree, pulse and a picture to get a job. If the teachers union was ran by professionals that actually cared about education and the students it would be a good balance with the government and in addition help alleviate unprofessional teachers and corrupt school owners.

[kwak76]

What stopping them from forming a teacher union in South Korea?

If a successfully teacher union was formed in South Korea other Asian Countries might follow and use them as a blue print.

If I remember correctly most ESL teachers in South Korea are YT travelers. They are usually there for a 2-3 years at most and really more for a good time than actually teaching.

[kimtae]

Kak, you just answered your own question. The transient nature of most english teachers has always been a stumbling block. I've heard of people wanting to form unions for the last 12 years and nothing has ever come of it. Believe it or not, another block has also come from other english teachers. You can guess which ones. People who are unqualified or have some hidden baggage and feel that they would be left out in the cold if a union were ever formed, like Thiessen.

[sab]

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/04/117_21836.html

I've been fairly impressed with moves the Korean gvmt has been making ever since last year. I'm not sure how far Rhee will be able to go with this move but it is interesting. Actually there are a number (small percentage mind you) of professional teachers that have made their home in South Korea. With this building block a teachers association could be made and it would actually encourage other professionals making South Korea their home. I know I would consider going back to Korea if I saw it as a long term place for myself and family.

[kwak76]

Only 4,000 ESL teachers in South Korea. I don't believe those numbers. It has to be much higher than that.

[dakotat]

Search his name and see how he's mocked and scorned. 2. He's a complete idiot and 1. a possible child molestor to boot; research his old topics there to see his position on 3. criminal background checks for teachers and some odd stuff will com up. 4. He also belongs to a divorced fathers advocacy group despite never having been married nor ever having had children and 5. he once complained that life in Korea lacked the charm of life in Thailand where one can "get a prostitute for the same price as a large pizza in Korea". Quite a piece of humanity he is.


this whole post is a complete lie and is the sole creation of the poster for his/her sick twisted humor.

1. he was never a child molester, nor even close to one. he wouldn't even touch his students let alone a child. that was an accusation made by an angry co-worker seeking to make trouble for him and it failed.

2. that's the poster's opinion which is not true.

3. criminal background checks are not worth it as a person is not supposed to be travelling internationally when they have a record. simple common sense.

4. this poster doesn't even know archie so how would he know if he was married or not or have childrenor not? archie does not belong to a divorced father's group and does not talk about his personal life so how would anyone know if he has kids or not? this guy is just lying and spreading false rumours.

5. this was said by steven schwertzer not archie on koreabridge. this poster can't even quote the right person. steve wrote the article 'i'm in charge of the classroom'. he has problems not archie.

[kimtae]

I see Archaeologist aka David Thiessen aka Dakotat has found his way here.
You're right. I got you and Schertzer confused on some things. Schertzer is the one that belongs to the divorced father's group but you do support allowing former conviceted pedophiles in the classroom with young children, no? You also falsely claim to have a doctorate.

[dakotat]

I see Archaeologist aka David Thiessen aka Dakotat has found his way here.

how do you know that i didn't ask archie's permission to use this i.d. to come in here and defend him?

You're right. I got you and Schertzer confused on some things

schwertzer is also the one who spoke of hookers in thailand.

but you do support allowing former conviceted pedophiles in the classroom with young children, no?

actually archie's words were taken out of context and as a christian archie does not share the same hatred as everyone else towards people. keep in mind that any comment he made on the subject was done in a christian context with the healing power of Christ involved. he is not responsible for the accusations and false charges leveled at him by those who do not understand what Christ can do for people.

also keep in mind, christians are to speak for all people not just the 'accepted' ones and justice must be applied to everyone or it is not justice.

You also falsely claim to have a doctorate.

not true. he has an accredidated doctorate but he feels it is too weak and continues to study to make up for what he feels he has missed. he is also published and has just had a book published and another one at his editor.

archie is also a very private person who does not give out details or says more than he has to and if people assume the wrong things thenthey are at fault.

[nskripchun]

but you do support allowing former conviceted pedophiles in the classroom with young children, no?

actually archie's words were taken out of context and as a christian archie does not share the same hatred as everyone else towards people. keep in mind that any comment he made on the subject was done in a christian context with the healing power of Christ involved. he is not responsible for the accusations and false charges leveled at him by those who do not understand what Christ can do for people.

also keep in mind, christians are to speak for all people not just the 'accepted' ones and justice must be applied to everyone or it is not justice.

Reading what you wrote just made me sick.

Are you actually suggesting that people should take seriously the notion that any pedophile claiming conversion and healing by Christianity should be allowed to work with young children and have access to them?

Does "archie" also advocate that alcoholics work at liquor stores?

Yes, Christians do speak for the oppressed and hated, but even a "healed pedophile" who has not only been convicted of a crime, but has sinned horribly against innocents (children) needs to accept that as a consequence of his/her actions and temperament, he or she should NOT be working with children lest he/she fall into temptation again. Nearly every single reputable statistical study of pedophiles and child sex offenders shows that risk of recidivism (re-offending) is high.

Just as alcoholics who successfully combat their alcoholism realize that the only way they can stay sober is through willful, active, and constant denial of alcohol, any sane person dealing with a disorder as potentially destructive as pedophilia should know that THEY SHOULD STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ALL KIDS. Forgiven or not.

[kimtae]

Reading what you wrote just made me sick.

Are you actually suggesting that people should take seriously the notion that any pedophile claiming conversion and healing by Christianity should be allowed to work with young children and have access to them?

Does "archie" also advocate that alcoholics work at liquor stores?

Yes, Christians do speak for the oppressed and hated, but even a "healed pedophile" who has not only been convicted of a crime, but has sinned horribly against innocents (children) needs to accept that as a consequence of his/her actions and temperament, he or she should NOT be working with children lest he/she fall into temptation again. Nearly every single reputable statistical study of pedophiles and child sex offenders shows that risk of recidivism (re-offending) is high.

Just as alcoholics who successfully combat their alcoholism realize that the only way they can stay sober is through willful, active, and constant denial of alcohol, any sane person dealing with a disorder as potentially destructive as pedophilia should know that THEY SHOULD STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ALL KIDS. Forgiven or not.
Good luck, you'll get nowhere with this idiot.

Archie, it's you. Stop being such a loser and fess up. The writing style is all you or did you also borrow his way of never capitalizing?
As for your doctorate, you never did answer what exactly it's in or from where. We do know though that it's not from any accredited university. Tell me, just for laughs, is it a PhD, MD, DEng, ScD, DLitt, JD, MDDr, EdD, or what? What "school" did you get it from?

[kimtae]

Just so we all know a little more about Dakotat, here are some quotes of his (Archaeologist to be exact) as collected by his friend Rudolph Hucker at the pusanweb.
"i do not think that religious people have lower i.q.s i just don't think they gain enough knowledge nor are taught properly how to use what they have learned."

"i have never made a claim to objectivity nor did i say i was being objective"

"Dawkins isn't that intelligent"

"rational isn't the only alternative"

"western women don't know their place - they can vote and even be elected"

"homosexuals ARE NOT A MINORITY"

"you all may think hucker and the dalai lama are wonderful people"

"i know of women who have killed themselves while framing their husbands for the deed"These were only a small fraction of his lunatic quotes.

[nightshade]

Wow, within two posts we have the winner of sickest fucktard ever on the 44s. Congratulations, dakotat. Print this shit out and hang it on the wall next to your fake doctorate, bitch.

[dakotat]

Are you actually suggesting that people should take seriously the notion that any pedophile claiming conversion and healing by Christianity should be allowed to work with young children and have access to them

not claiming conversion, that is not conversion. the point is you all only got a portion of what was said and that was taken out of context. but i see hatred and discrimination in your words thus it would be pointless to try and explain here.

Nearly every single reputable statistical study of pedophiles and child sex offenders shows that risk of recidivism (re-offending) is high.


right, so by your logic, murderers should not be allowed near people anymore since they will kill again. they destroy innocent lives and affect children so i guess we should lock every killer up without a key and only the sinless get to walk the land.

Just as alcoholics who successfully combat their alcoholism realize that the only way they can stay sober is through willful, active, and constant denial of alcohol, any sane person dealing with a disorder as potentially destructive as pedophilia should know that THEY SHOULD STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ALL KIDS. Forgiven or not.

really, i know of alcoholics who stay sober solely based upon the healing power of Christ, nothing else.

As for your doctorate, you never did answer what exactly it's in or from where. We do know though that it's not from any accredited university. Tell me, just for laughs, is it a PhD, MD, DEng, ScD, DLitt, JD, MDDr, EdD, or what? What "school" did you get it from?

this is on a need to know and you don't need to know. he knows what happens to personal information, your lies are one good example, so nothing gets posted on the web. you have left some off your list as well. people like you, and i imagine you are hucker, can't be trusted so you will never know.

Just so we all know a little more about Dakotat, here are some quotes of his (Archaeologist to be exact) as collected by his friend Rudolph Hucker at the pusanweb.

all such quotes were taken out of context with the intent to ruin someone's reputation. nothing in there displays anything but the intent of the person doing the quoting.

Archie, it's you. Stop being such a loser and fess up. The writing style is all you or did you also borrow his way of never capitalizing?


i guess you will never know now will you....

[dakotat]

Wow, within two posts we have the winner of sickest fucktard ever on the 44s. Congratulations, dakotat. Print this shit out and hang it on the wall next to your fake doctorate, bitch.

a very good example of the difference between archie and you

but then you do not realize what discussion is as it entails many facets which too many people tend to eliminate because a topic includes subject matter they find rehensible and cannot overcome.

it has always amazed me that, in my many years of participation in forums, how so many people , who claim to know the english language or teach english do not fully understand nor have the ability to discern the many different ways the english language can be used.

the limitedness of 'english teachers' here is appalling as they fail to grasp the very language they say they teach.

[nightshade]

Learn how to spell, you passive aggressive bitch.

[kimtae]

Archie, this isn't the Pusanweb. You seem to be getting your forums mixed up and I am not Hucker. I am ...wait for it...wait for it...drddunks. I know you inside and out. You can't spread your lies here so give it up.

Nightshade, your admonishments to Archie won't work because as a "western" woman, you've been corrupted by things like, oh say, freedom of speech, the equal rights to men, an education beyond 6th grade, and no longer being banished to a menstruation hut (something he once posted as being a custom we should bring back, and not as a joke). You are right though that he is the most twisted asshole to ever post here.

[dakotat]

I know you inside and out.

since you have never met archie, this is a false claim

you've been corrupted by things like, oh say, freedom of speech, the equal rights to men, an education beyond 6th grade, and no longer being banished to a menstruation hut (something he once posted as being a custom we should bring back, and not as a joke).

archie never said anything like this either. for someone who claims to know him inside and out, you sure get a lot wrong. i guess you are the most twisted person to post here as you lie way too much.

Learn how to spell, you passive aggressive bitch.

i see insulting is allowed here, too bad means the people who practice that aren't worth gettingto know.

[dakotat]

nope, i was wrong. just checked the rules and insulting, name calling etc are not on the accepted things to post. well i guess exceptions are always made...

[nightshade]

Well, since you are a passive aggressive bitch, it's not an insult to call you one. I'm just telling the truth.

[krnbboyprd]

Nightshade it's not worth it. Sometimes it really like talking to a brick wall. I will admit, it sure is entertaining to read. :D

[kwak76]

You telling me this idiot is actually lives in South Korea?

Does he also teach in South Korea as an ESL teacher?

[dakotat]

you do not have toworry about me as i am not sticking around. just wanted to set the record straight about archie and since no one knows him in south korea, all you are hearing are lies and misrepresentations meant to hurt someone who has done nothing to you or anybody else.

judging from the amount of false accusations and false rumors along with the comments made here, it is easy to see that the character of the foreigners in korea are nothing to be proud of nor boast about.

too bad this forum is like every other one, attack the good ignore the evil so it can continue to hurt innocent people.

[nightshade]

you do not have toworry about me as i am not sticking around. just wanted to set the record straight about archie and since no one knows him in south korea, all you are hearing are lies and misrepresentations meant to hurt someone who has done nothing to you or anybody else.

judging from the amount of false accusations and false rumors along with the comments made here, it is easy to see that the character of the foreigners in korea are nothing to be proud of nor boast about.

too bad this forum is like every other one, attack the good ignore the evil so it can continue to hurt innocent people.

dakotat's reading comprehension test results:


FAIL.

[krnbboyprd]

dakotat don't be all butt hurt. It's really hard to cure stupidity. I know you can cure this disease, it's possible. ;)