Thou shalt not kill, except in a popular video game at church

[jaehwan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/us/07halo.html

The hypocrisy in mind-boggling. I don't even know what to say. Just when you think these militant evangelical fundies can't get any more hypocritical or disgusting, they outdo themselves once again.

I like this:

“It’s very pervasive,” Mr. Palmer said, more widespread on the coasts, less so in the South, where the Southern Baptist denomination takes a more cautious approach. The organization recently sent e-mail messages to 50,000 young people about how to share their faith using Halo 3. Among the tips: use the game’s themes as the basis for a discussion about good and evil.

What would you call this? "Halo evangelism?"

[nskripchun]

hahaha, sorry brother jaehwan, but I think your reaction to this is a bit too strong. Surely, you don't belong to the school of thought that playing video games turns kids into psychopathic killers?

Playing Halo is “no different than going on a camping trip,” said Kedrick Kenerly, founder of Christian Gamers Online, an Internet site whose central themes are video games and religion. “It’s a way to fellowship.”

I've run a couple of "HALO" nights with the high school guys at my church, and the whole point is to get the kids together, have fun in a safe environment, and build relationships. Of course, we have ground rules like getting your parents' permission, no cussing, etc. In the area where our church is located, I'd much rather have the neighborhood kids playing HALO than doing other things - underage drinking, gangbanging, etc.

As for the theological issues of "thou shall not kill", a better interpretation is "thou shall not murder"...

Of course, I can't speak for other 'Christian' churches. I sure the fundamentalist types probably like to draw sick analogies between real-life and the game like, "Master Chief is like Jesus! And his fight against aliens... that's like our fight against non-believers!"

Thankfully, my church doesn't engage in that silliness...

[nottyboy]

When I used to be religious, the preacher at my church was always referring to a spiritual battle between good and evil, and I think he literally meant angels and demons fighting over people's hearts. He never made any videogame analogies, but he did once use the Alien creature as an analogy for a demon.

The only other movie he used as an analogy was Braveheart, though he was ticked off that they "polluted an otherwise great movie with sexual immorality."

hahaha, sorry brother jaehwan, but I think your reaction to this is a bit too strong. Surely, you don't belong to the school of thought that playing video games turns kids into psychopathic killers?

I've run a couple of "HALO" nights with the high school guys at my church, and the whole point is to get the kids together, have fun in a safe environment, and build relationships. Of course, we have ground rules like getting your parents' permission, no cussing, etc. In the area where our church is located, I'd much rather have the neighborhood kids playing HALO than doing other things - underage drinking, gangbanging, etc.

As for the theological issues of "thou shall not kill", a better interpretation is "thou shall not murder"...

Of course, I can't speak for other 'Christian' churches. I sure the fundamentalist types probably like to draw sick analogies between real-life and the game like, "Master Chief is like Jesus! And his fight against aliens... that's like our fight against non-believers!"

Thankfully, my church doesn't engage in that silliness...

[jaehwan]

In the area where our church is located, I'd much rather have the neighborhood kids playing HALO than doing other things - underage drinking, gangbanging, etc.

As for the theological issues of "thou shall not kill", a better interpretation is "thou shall not murder"...

This is where Christian theology gets dicey.

1. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." If God really meant "thou shall not murder," why didn't he say that?

2. Nskripchun, you know that I'd love to kick it with you playing Halo when I'm up in Seattle, but I wouldn't want to do it in a church, and the reason is this: the actions contained within the game go DIRECTLY against what the church says that it is trying to teach.

See this quote from the article:

“If you want to connect with young teenage boys and drag them into church, free alcohol and pornographic movies would do it,” said James Tonkowich, president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, a nonprofit group that assesses denominational policies.

My view is exactly the same. If you're going to use violent video games, why not just bring in porn (alcohol too, but not for underage boys)? Or why not have pornographic video games? Is there really a difference between porn, which glorifies unattached sex, and Halo, which glorifies killing? Both glorify something which the church is supposed to be against.

[nskripchun]

jaehwan,

Ah, it's been awhile since I've busted out my internet debating skills, so go easy on me. Haha.

This is where Christian theology gets dicey.

1. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." If God really meant "thou shall not murder," why didn't he say that?

I'm not a Bible scholar, but from my understanding, the original "10 Commandments" were written in Hebrew, which has since been translated into a variety of languages, including English. "Thou shalt not kill" that is cited by most people originates from the Roman Catholic translation (note the archaic 'thou'). Most modern translations use "murder" as the more accurate term since Old Testament law does actually differentiate between killing in terms of murder, accidental death (manslaughter), execution of criminals, etc.

If you look at the way the Hebrew has been translated in various English versions, I think the meaning is pretty clear (a few samples):

-"You shall not murder." (New International Version (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:13;&version=31;), New American Standard (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:13;&version=49;))

-"No murder." (The Message (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:13;&version=65;))

-"Do not murder." (Contemporary English Version (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:13;&version=46;))

-"You must not murder." (New Living Translation (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:13;&version=51;))

2. Nskripchun, you know that I'd love to kick it with you playing Halo when I'm up in Seattle, but I wouldn't want to do it in a church, and the reason is this: the actions contained within the game go DIRECTLY against what the church says that it is trying to teach.

See this quote from the article:

My view is exactly the same. If you're going to use violent video games, why not just bring in porn (alcohol too, but not for underage boys)? Or why not have pornographic video games? Is there really a difference between porn, which glorifies unattached sex, and Halo, which glorifies killing? Both glorify something which the church is supposed to be against.

I don't think alcohol or porn are good parallels to video games, as they are both illegal for high school boys to possess. It's perfectly legal and it's quite widespread for high school boys to play video games.

As for the argument that "HALO glorifies killing", we might have to agree to disagree. I think most high school boys are mature enough to handle the nature of HALO the same as if they were to play the boardgame "RISK" - it's merely a fantasy-type scenario through which guys can compete and have fun against each other. High schoolers who are already handling Shakespeare (murder! sucide! murder-suicide!), AP calculus, etc. can handle that HALO is just a game.

I've (thankfully) yet to see a single one of the high school guys who've played HALO go out and start spraying their families / classrooms / our church with bullets because of a video game. I view group video games like HALO as healthy outlet for adolescent guys' needs for competition, camaraderie, and friendship.

Are we really debating the effects of HALO as a medium that turns kids into violent killers? Because I don't believe the evidence is there empirically to support that theory, unless you and I both happen to take this guy seriously (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_%28attorney%29). Video games are merely being slung into the same scapegoat role as other things in the past - hip hop culture, rock' n' roll music, comic books, paperback novels, etc.

If on the otherhand, if we're debating whether or not HALO is "Christian"... well, I guess that's certainly open to a lot of interpretation since they didn't spend a lot of time in the 1st century enjoying flat-screen TVs and XBox 360s... ;)

[jaehwan]

jaehwan,

Ah, it's been awhile since I've busted out my internet debating skills, so go easy on me. Haha.

Haha...no probs. My postings are going to be sporadic for the next couple of weeks, so if you want to kick my arse, go ahead.

I think we need a Hebrew scholar to differentiate between "murder" and "kill." Maybe Hebrew doesn't even differentiate between the two. I do know that some translations of the Bible are purposely too liberal in order to liberalize Christianity.
I don't think alcohol or porn are good parallels to video games, as they are both illegal for high school boys to possess. It's perfectly legal and it's quite widespread for high school boys to play video games.

I purposely left out alcohol in my own comments because it's illegal for boys to have, but porn is not. A cop could see a fourteen year old looking at porn, and there is no charge that he could use to arrest the kid.

So why not use porn in the church?

Maybe you can share your opinion on this. When I was younger, I went to church, and some preacher told me that it was wrong to even think about having sex with a woman. Lust was a sin because if you even thought about doing it, you were truly doing it in your heart.

Couldn't the same be true of a lust for violence? i.e. thinking of killing means you are truly doing it in your heart?

[SO_ANGRY]

A lot of gamers don't play games to escape the world and just kill people. There's also a difference between GTA and Halo. There's also a difference between killing a sentient creature vs killing a pixelated bad guy.

Halo, though violent, is targeted towards a broad audience. It's also considered a competitive (although a bad competitive game by hardcore gamer standards, especially to FPS heads) game. You team up with guys, grab the best weapons first, keep the timer in your head for it to respawn, or you try to find ways to get to the opponent's flag. When you play a halo with people, it's a party game. This is what kids do instead of playing chess these days.

And in the Halo story, the line blurs between good and evil. It tries to make a pseudo intellectual attempt at good and evil, to religious extremism. Who really is the good guy in Halo? The line is blurred here.

If you make porn a group activity, that's not fun. Too many dicks in the room man. It's also not very clean if they...you know.

And beer is illegal for kids, and I wouldn't be surprised if churches give the o.k. to adults drinking beer at church social events.