APB boot camp. [Archive] - Forums // The Fighting 44s

kwak76

Sep 28th, 2007, 10:52 AM

For those of you that don't really know me I'm going into my past history with women or lack of. A little bit about who I am. I'm Korean and grew up in a conservative Korean family. I was also Christian. I mentioned this because it tells little bit about my upbringing and the morals I learned.

I didn't date through out highschool. I had maybe two female friends from school but outside of that all I did was study and focus in gettting into college. My friends at that time were like me. I had only one friend who had a girlfriend but outside of that my other friends just stayed home on the weekends. You could say we were probably late bloomers.

In college I wanted to change. I wanted to start dating but realize every girl I tried to approach either made fun of me or just said no. I was 18 and awkward . I was also very shy and sensitive at that age.

I decided instead of trying to talk to girls in class it be easier if I joined a club to meet someone . At that time I was into Christianity so I joined the Korean Christian Fellowship. To be honest I regret it now. I think when it came to men- women inter-action Korean Christian fellowship does not develop that skill.

At least for me it didn't. If I talked to a girl people would gossip and the girl would stop talking to me thinking it would be bad for her reputation.
You have to understand to Korean Christian they don't believe in dating. When I went to church for the Young Adults they actually divided the guys from the girls thinking it be a distraction. I could understand you would do that for 12 years old but for someone who is 19.

So a part of me still wanted to get a girlfriend because I never had one. This was not about getting laid but about finding someone just to go to the movies with and do normal stuff with.

There was this one experience that still haunts me to this day. She was a cute Korean girl in my sociology class. It took me a whole semester just to get the nerve to say something to her. Her response was" Your not talking to me just because I'm Asian are you?" I was like what?? Let say that was my first of many ccb experience.

In college all was not lost. I did date only one girl but she came from a abusive family. Our relationship didn't last long because she had too many issues and being 20 at the time I wasn't ready for something like that.

I gaved up. Focus on finishing college and finding a job and do other things. This is when I started to lift weights. I had a new mistress and it was weights. Any time I felt bad hit the weights. Anytime I felt lonely to the squat rack I would go . Anytime I felt depress I would do power cleans.

I think from the age of 20-25 I probably dated 2 or 3 girls through out that time. Dated not girl friend. I was still a virgin but it wasn't about sex to me that was important it's about finding someone that I could care about and vice verser.

During this time my friends were in no better shape. I had one friend and all he did was work and never had a girlfriend yet alone date a girl. Another friend last girl friend was in high school and never was able to get one every since. I had another friend who actually turned to prostitute for female companion. Can you say we are all losers? Shit I even saw myself as a loser.

At this time I lived in Manhattan. I worked in downtown and lived in mid-town. After work I would walk home. I worked near St. Mark place which is CCB capital of the world.

Everyday I would see 20 WM/AF a day. Where ever I went I saw it . It depressed me. Couldn't get a girl and didn't know what to do and saw this every single fucking day. You could say this was the beginning of me going into depression. Started to see therapist. Saw maybe two different ones but were no help.

At the age of 25 or 26 I discovered Asianguy.com and realize I'm not the only one that feels this way. At the age of 27 I discovered the 44's and realize there are others too.

When I hit 28 things got better for me. My first real girlfriend but I met her in Korea when I stayed in Korea for 6 months . For ahwile I was like Winston Wu thinking that America sucks . I actually thought about living in Korea but had too many investment career wise that is in the USA.

I started to read fastseduction.com at the age of 28-29. I didn't take it serious at first but applied the 3 sec rule on a Korean girl I saw on the subway. We dated and almost got married.

Everysince I became a bit more confident and aggressive. Much is from reading PUA. Yes, I still get allot of rejection but I also dated more everysince.

Looking back my upbringing and being natural shy and sensitive was the cause of me not connecting with girls. It seems like I found some peace at the age of 30 and 31. My sister will get marry at the end of this month and I am happy for her.

I like to get married someday too but realize that girls don't knock on my door. I have to go out and get them. I know I need help in this area. You got to do what you got to do.

Harangue

Sep 28th, 2007, 05:01 PM

I also hope you find what you're looking for, but to be completely honest, if you had any kind of looks and/or personality, you should've been lured out of your shell now.

nightshade

Sep 28th, 2007, 05:42 PM

Hey, Harangue, no one asked for your opinion, whether it be honest or not.

Kwak, aza aza fighting!

VeryAngry

Sep 28th, 2007, 05:49 PM

Kwak, you have embarked on a journey that will test you much but in return teaches you things that common people will not even deign to learn.

Within two years your stature shall humble and overawe them.

Vahz

Sep 28th, 2007, 06:17 PM

I got an honest question.

We all know that most Asian Americans aren't viewing these types of boards on the internet but how many Asian women actually know that this is creating a horrible psychological effect on Asian men?

Are they even aware?

I had a "small" discussion about this with another Asian girl that was seeing a white guy at the time and she replied "Asian guys never ask me out and seem insecure." "Well, maybe it's because they constantly see you with white guys which causes them to be discouraged and insecure in the first place which causes you to date more white men. It's a horrible circle."

Thing is, how does one stop the circle? Who has to take the first step? I also think that white men are a huge part of the issue since they are overly aggressive when it comes to talking with Asian women. If white men were as interested in Asian women as, say, black women, it wouldn't be that much of an issue anyway since Asian men would eventually ask these same Asian women out.

Asian men aren't aggressive enough while white men are too aggressive. Even if Asian men were "normal," we'd still be at a loss.

VeryAngry

Sep 28th, 2007, 06:43 PM

I think that the first person that should give a fuck about this, is the man himself. And I mean really giving a thought to his life, and not just being a whiny bitch who is in the end unwilling to change anything.

At the very least, a man can still surround himself with quality people, and no matter what the odds are, if he looks hard enough he will always be able to find at least one quality woman to be with, and if he's living in Klan country even then there's always the option to get the hell out of there.

Now imagine what would happen when a man puts himself out there and learns to get to the heart of the mating game and "love", beyond the rules and ideas that people make for themselves to adhere to, and plunges into the realm of raw attraction and emotion?

Everything else pales to insignificance next to the role of the individual in choosing his own destiny.

ellencho

Sep 30th, 2007, 11:40 PM

With all the fucking free advertising APB gets on this board, he'd be a real fucktard to charge kwak full price for his bootcamp. In fact, APB should let him attend for free.

kwak76

Oct 1st, 2007, 01:20 AM

Vahz,

When I was younger I couldn't understand the dynamics of inter-racial relationship and why it was so one sided . As I gotten older I understand it better now.

Women like men with value. Higher the value the more the women like. Think of men who have high value. Men that are successful or accomplish. Women find these type of men attractive. Women do not find insecure men attractive.

If your an insecure Asian men. I think half the time the insecurities is what turns the women off. White men have higher value just because they are white. This make sense considering the fact that a white guy could go to Asia and would not have a hard time getting a local girlfriend. However, it doesn't work the other way for Asian men who goes to a western country.

Again it comes down to value in the sense of social classism. Asian men have to work harder but I believe that hard work can be rewarded.

I notice Asian men who are confident and aggressive will get girls. Being confident and aggressive is something anyone can do and change into.

Ellencho,

I guess thanks for the thought but I think it's fair for APB to charge me. I don't own the 44's site nor it's my site. Long before I even consider taking a boot camp I was reading PUA sites already and really consider taking a boot camp. I went for APB because I think he could relate with the racism that an Asian men will face in the dating world.

I do prefer Asian female and I know APB focuses more on inter-racial pick up because that's what most of his clients want. Just like SB1 would say there is always that racial element that an Asian person has to deal with in the dating/ marriage world. Not everyone will agree with APB but reading some of his blogs when it comes to the racial element he actually understands it.

His message is actually a positive message. His message is that there is racism out there but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be and even if it is bad you still have to win them with your skill. Skill is something that has no bearing with race.

kimtae

Oct 1st, 2007, 11:55 AM

Heli

Oct 1st, 2007, 01:37 PM

jaehwan

Oct 1st, 2007, 01:41 PM

Ellencho,

I guess thanks for the thought but I think it's fair for APB to charge me. I don't own the 44's site nor it's my site.

No, but everyone on this site is "paying" for your bootcamp when we read his ads. It's kind of like the old Netzero--agree to read their ads, and you get free internet. Same thing here--we read his ads, and someone should get something for free. I'd personally like a free dinner, but that might entail me hanging out with him, and I'd probably lose my appetite if I had to watch him in action.

Kimtae is also right. You already have everything you need. I don't think it'll hurt if you go to APB, but if you want good advice, you could always pm Aznman and get a different perspective on what APB is offering.

Vahz

Oct 1st, 2007, 04:27 PM

Why is AZNman such a font of knowledge? Does he offer the same type of social classes?

VeryAngry

Oct 2nd, 2007, 03:58 AM

Yah, who is this Aznman? Does he have a website?

Scowl

Oct 2nd, 2007, 01:59 PM

I don't think boot camp is necessary for you, kwak, but good luck with that. Let us know how it goes.

And don't forget to bring your own pair of shades.

maogirl

Oct 3rd, 2007, 05:23 AM

Caveat emptor, Kwak. In APB's own admission, being a PUA only works for about 10% of guys. Since most people bullshit and exaggerate liberally, i'm guessing he really means 5%, probably less.
Kwak, you've got all the tools you need. You just have to stop internalizing so much of the bullshit that we all deal with daily.

exactly.

also, what i don't get is: kwak, for all your whining, you seem to meet and talk to a lot of chicks. it seems to me like that problem you have isn't wiht meeting women, but with finding the right chick who gets you.

do you really think learning PUA shit is gonna help you with that? if you want some chick who is down and politically aware and all that shit, i sincerely doubt that anything asian gayboy teaches you will help. i mean, can you imagine sidling up to someone like jade or nightshade and dropping those lines and tactics? yiii.

anyway, rather than constantly obsessign over getting a partner, maybe you should think about working on liking yourself.

incidentally, getting laid or getting a partner is not going to solve any issues of self-esteem or insecurity. anyone who derives confidence from fucking or being with someone deserves the STDs that they accumulate (hope you have good health insurance for your son, retardazn). jesus, that's just so fucking pathetic...you have to get validation from other people like that to feel good about yourself?

jesus weeps for people like this.

i'm so glad my parents raised me and my siblings to be badasses on our own.

kwak76

Oct 3rd, 2007, 09:39 PM

I'm trying to avoid this thread becoming a flame war. Some people don't agree with the PUA or even like APB. That's fine. I'm not here to argue about the pro's and con's of it . There is another thread about that already.

I started this thread to to talk about my future experience with the APB bootcamp. I decided to take the APB bootcamp a long time ago.

I'm doing this for myself. I'm looking for a real relationship but in order to get a relationship going you have to be able to attract a girl first. Can I do it on my own? Yeah, I dated girls in the past but after going through allot of rejection to find that one girl that will date me.

I have nothing to lose taking this boot camp . If I learn something thats great. If I don't learn anything than I know for sure it's not for me.

Regardless of what others think. I think there are some of you who are really curious about my meeting with APB boot camp.

Before others make snap judgement just read this as kwak adventure at PUA bootcamp for purely entertainment purpose only.

One things for sure I be honest with my experience and about APB. We already pm each other already and he doesn't mind me writing about this.

kimtae

Oct 3rd, 2007, 11:37 PM

I'm doing this for myself. I'm looking for a real relationship but in order to get a relationship going you have to be able to attract a girl first. Can I do it on my own? Yeah, I dated girls in the past but after going through allot of rejection to find that one girl that will date me.
It's all a numbers game, for some it's two out of three for others it's one out of a hundred but we all play that game. What do you think APB's method is grounded in? The more ho's you hit up, the more numbers you'll get. Duh.
The kind of girl you want, you'll never meet being a PUA. Think about it. Do you want a skank that can be gamed? Years later, as you tell people how you met, is that what you want to be able to say? That she was some random ho that played out? Like I siad, your only problem is that you internalize too much of the daily struggle that we all go through. Fuck a duck, man, lighten up, take your one shot a life, and find the one girl who will let you be yourself, not some artificial guy based on a persona assigned to you by some sleazoid with a herpe on his lip.

For those of you who might want to know what my problem with APB is, it's simple. He's a snake oil slaesman. He claims to have a one size fits all solution to "our problems." This is even as he slipped up in one post and admitted that his methods only work for 10% of guys (again, likely less than 5%) Even if it worked for all of us, really, how many of us want to live the lifestyle? Clubbing for drunk girls might be a fun diversion for many once in a while butis this what you want your life to centered around?
I also resent his constant hammering message that Asian guys need his special attention. Asian guys are like all other guys. Some are natural born players, others are nerds, and others are just "normal". Maybe to some lesser or greater degree than white or black guys, but certainly not nearly as many of us need APB's attentions as he would like to have us all believe.
As for his techniques, some of them are so obvious and rudimentary that it's criminal that he would charge money to tell you these things. A wing-man? Who needs someone to tell you that having a like-minded friend will help bolster your confidence? When approaching a mixed talbe not talking to the girl of your interest right off the bat? No shit, it's called not getting your ass kicked for being some random creep. Being cocky? Women have always like the cool, cocky guy (no, not the over-confident dick), any fool who's seen the Fonz in action knows that.

Kwak, do what you feel you must, but you know I always think well of you. In all honesty, you just need to unclench and stop being so serious about everything. You'll do much better and no amount of boot-camp BS is going to teach you how to do that. In fact, I'll wager that you're too smart for APB, that his BS will leave you even more uptight.
You just need to accept yourself for who you are, find the struggles in life that you can handle, forget the ones that threaten to swallow you up, and avoid the meager battles that drag you down. Get a dog, join a social club, take up the guitar, do some charity work, whatever can help you find some joy in your life, that'll change everything for you though maybe not as fast as getting the clap will.

angi

Oct 4th, 2007, 12:37 AM

With all the fucking free advertising APB gets on this board, he'd be a real fucktard to charge kwak full price for his bootcamp. In fact, APB should let him attend for free.

No shit...

No other comment other than Kwak, you're a sweet guy. Don't become a dick in the game of getting pussy.

SamuraiJack

Oct 4th, 2007, 01:18 AM

I think Jade Dragon mentioned this before, but much of the stuff can be downloaded off the Internet...

http://www.thefighting44s.com/forum/showthread.php?p=22284#post22284

I'd say some of it is useful, but mostly just the generic ideas, not the specifics, such as pick up lines.

ellencho

Oct 4th, 2007, 03:02 PM

If you're wondering why this thread isn't flaming anymore, it's because it's been split. Let's keep this thread kwak/apb related and let's keep the more entertaining posturing in the new thread (http://thefighting44s.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5476).

AZN MAN

Oct 5th, 2007, 03:38 AM

Kimtae is also right. You already have everything you need. I don't think it'll hurt if you go to APB, but if you want good advice, you could always pm Aznman and get a different perspective on what APB is offering.

Kwak - if you want to discuss, I'm more than happy to participate when I'm able to.

AZN MAN

Oct 5th, 2007, 04:13 AM

I commend Kwak for making the decision to change himself in a way that he personally feels will have a positive and beneficial effect for himself; without hurting others.

When I ended a long-term relationship, my male ego and self-defense mechanism kicked into high gear. I wanted to get laid as often as possible by as many women as I could get; it didn't work because I didn't know how to approach anymore and every woman I approached instantly sensed my emotional state.

Three techniques I employed soon thereafter marked the beginning of my own personal journey to a healthier emotional state.

1. I brought happiness back into my life. This was accomplished by challenging myself to laugh and to return to that humorous guy that I once was. I realized that women remember men who make them feel good about themselves and what better way to do that than with humor.

2. I forced myself to go out to public places with a lot of single women. Bars, nightclubs, coffee shops, parties, social events, etc. The key here is that I made a point not to approach any women; I was there solely to watch other men approach women. By studying this for a period of time, I was learning what worked and what didn't work, and why.

3. I had frequent discussions with women that I knew regarding men; what turned them on and what turned them off about them. Through these discussions I learned how to approach women using women-speak. This was a very powerful tool; it instantly garnered a woman's attention because they quickly became aware that I knew their "language".

While I understand what APB is doing and what he's all about, I myself have taken a much different path. While he's attempting to teach what he calls a "skill" in PUA, I've experienced what I believe Kwak would like to experience: In a general sense women tend to view me as relationship material rather than a fling. This in spite of my comments upfront that I have no expectations and am not specifically looking for a relationship.

I think this is where some of the older posters here believe that I differ from the PUA Instructor crowd. And as always, I do this for free because I have no agenda other than to help a brother out.

VeryAngry

Oct 5th, 2007, 06:15 AM

Thanks for sharing, Azn Man. This is important enough to be said. I'm occupied now but I'll pen some of my other thoughts down later.

VeryAngry

Oct 5th, 2007, 02:35 PM

I changed my mind. :o

kwak76

Oct 6th, 2007, 11:11 AM

First night in bootcamp. I actually miss the first 2 -3 hours of lecture because of work. The boot camp started at 4 PM but I just had too many things to be done that I couldn't leave earlier. My job comes before boot camp.

Anyway, I showed up late . I'm not going into every detail out of respect for the other guys who decided to take the boot camp nor will I go into details what APB teaches. Allot of stuff he teaches you could find it on his blog.

My first impression. Hmm....I'm like OK this is APB ??? I mean I seen his pictures on the net I guess I was more like "wow" not in the sense I was shocked or surprise but I was OK his APB. It's kind of hard to describe. I guess because of his reputation I viewed him with some bias where as if I didn't know nothing about him I be like what so special about him.

What do I think about the first day of class? Well, to be honest I came in late(my fault). So far I think it was good what I learned. THere were things that I suspected that I had problems with but needed an objective person to point it out .

One of my problem is my facial expression. APB said I'm a decent looking guy with decent built but it means nothing if you can't express your face the right way. I had the dreaded Asian poker face. I'm also stiff. Need to loosen my back more and don't slouch. Move slower.

We went over some drills things you have to practice on your own to get better at. Allot of times for guys we don't know how we actually look like when we talk to a girls. Sometimes we fidget or look around the room or look too serious . Even if you have confidence it means nothing because you could look weird talking to a girl and lose her interest. THese drills you do in front of a mirror. Facial expression .etc..etc.

Night out. I don't know who picked the first bar because it sucked. We were in there for 10 mins jetted out. THe second club was much better. Again I'm not going to talk about what the other guys done out of respect for them.

THe goal was to open up 10 sets. I only got up to 6 sets. Out of 6 sets I got one number and got blown away 4 times and one time I ejected myself. THe night was getting late and I follow some of APB advice in how to approach. To be honest my mind went blank and I just went back to my natural state.

After the night out we all went back to one of the guys home to discuss what we did wrong . I was surprise by what APB said about me.

APB : He thinks I'm not a bad looking guy with a decent built. My approach is not that bad. I need to loosen up more with more facial expression. He said if I approach girls I'm not attracted to I win them over because I couldn't careless what those girls think of me because I don't find them attractive. In other words I'm more relax and have fun with the approach. I show more of my personality. He also thinks because I'm not bad looking he thinks it's my looks that got the girls in the past. .....I'm like I don't know.

He said I'm too much in my comfort zone. I have to risk more if I want the girls that I want . He is right. If I approach a really attractive I assume she will reject me so I do my approach thinking she will reject me anyway. APB advice is get in there and fight. Push how far I can go. Approach her the way I would approach a girl thinking I could get her and I don't give a shit about it.

In other words inner game.

What do I think of APB as the teacher ? I think he does care about his student. He expects his student to do their part by approaching and at least trying. If you don't then he will get on you. None of the guys had hard time approaching.
They would observe you and tell you what you did wrong after wards on an approach.

THe only thing that sucked was sometimes we get lost in the club and you ended up approach on your own and no one will tell you what you did wrong.

What do I think of APB as a person? ??????????????????????????? He is unique. Interesting and to be honest I don't know him. I don't know if I'm talking to the real APB or not. His hard to read. I don't know if he has the mask on or what.

I don't know if I agree with his views. We spoked a bit about woman and life. In general aspect I would agree with him on other aspect I don't.

This is just my first day. I write more late..and please guys don't flame. This is just me being observing and writing from my own experience.

VeryAngry

Oct 6th, 2007, 06:57 PM

Trust your instincts and intuition, bro.

One thing I hesitate in even saying, but feel I must because people sometimes forget, is that there isn't any shortage of people who will treat you with respect and care.

xian

Oct 6th, 2007, 10:11 PM

Thanks for taking the time and reporting. Investigation is key!

kwak76

Oct 7th, 2007, 08:16 AM

2nd day of bootcamp.

I was there for the whole lecture and it feels like information overload. Just to give you some ideas it was 4 hours of lectures and some drills. Allot of this stuff I feel that you have to go home and practice yourself but after the lecture we went to a night club.

Some stuff I learned. More body language. How to approach a set sitting down? allot of stuff that I have to re-read and have it sink in.

Ok for the fun part . We went to a night club. Had our own table. The goal today is get the girl back to the table and create comfort and something else. To be honest I am writing this at 6:47 AM and just got back from the city and feel tired.

I approach 5 or 6 sets. This time got two numbers. Ok ....I did things that I would never every have done before tonight. APB got piss at me because he thinks I'm not digging deep. He doesn't think I am committing.

I'm like what do you want me to do. I'm approaching girls and I actually brought back 3 or 4 sets back to our table. A week ago I would never every have been able to pull this.

One negative aspect which does not sit well with me. APB goals for his student is to get a one night lay if possible. I'm not against people wanting to have sex or if people wants one night lay. Up to them.

I guess I'm a bit conservative. I never had a one night lay nor am I ashamed to admit it. Not something I'm used to nor is it important for me to do this. APB wanted to push me to my limit. This is where he became more like a drill sergeant.

So there was this one Korean girl who was sitting down in our group. I found out she has a boyfriend. A white boyfriend. In the past I be fuck her and find someone else. But to be honest I figure let see if I could game her. I kino her and started to talk about who see is.

Some fluff talk mix with joking around. I'm not used to the cocky funny aspect. Long story short I got her number. Tried to kiss her but couldn't. I push myself to point where in the past I wouldn't have gone. Why? One she has a white boy friend but I was like fuck it let me see if I could steal this Asian girl from a white guy. ....I didn't succeeded because I didn't fuck her but to me that was not a failure because I kept gaming her and push myself. I don't know if APB notice that or not.

Another example. I went to the dance floor. There were two cute Chinese girls dancing. Went up to them directly but almost got AMOG. I found out later that guy was married to one of the Chinese girl. He was a white guy.

In the past I be fucking ccbs and walk away but fuck no. Instead I was like "what ups" didn't know that was your wife. His like "cool" and told me her friend is single. So I started to game the other chinese girl. Didn't go far but again I kept pushing myself.

After the night club we went back to talk about what we did wrong and how to improve.

APB is not too happy with my progress. He doesn't think I believe in his stuff and fall back to my old habits. He also thinks I don't have enough faith in myself. His right.

In other words I have to think I'm attractive and that women want me. I'm more humble and well I have hard time thinking all women want me but APB is like if you think like that you won't go far. Another aspect is I'm not committed.

In other words no matter who the girl is be committed to what you do and how you treat her. My problem is I don't show that passion. Another thing is I don't open enough in the sense I am not connecting with people. So these are again internal issues I have to work on.

Like him or hate him when it comes to human interaction his very sharp. Stuff he said about me was spot on. I thought I was working as hard as I can but I was not committing myself hard enough.

At the same time I can't picture myself as this sexual stud. His like if you can't see yourself that way why would a woman want to sleep with you than?

Also I don't open up. I was with APB and my fellow students and I guess I kept private with who I am. APB felt like if you can't connect with your fellow students or instructor and you been with them for more than 24 hours. How the hell can you connect with a women in 3-4 hours when you are trying to game her in a club?

His right.

To be fair allot of these clubs we went to were mix -clubs. I told APB that I prefer Asian women. Not too interested in non-Asian women. His advice is don't limit yourself. Women are women.

His view on Asian women is this and it's pretty extreme. He told me that Asian women will fuck white guys for sport because they can but will bring home an Asian guy to her family and probably marry. In some sense his kind of right but kind of extreme.

This is when I realize APB mind set. Extreme, driven, and intense. He hides some of it but you sense it.

xian

Oct 7th, 2007, 10:08 AM

Thanks for your write-up when you were so exhausted.
A few reflections:
I think that you have been ehlped by the experience. As you said, you have picked up skills and been able to do things that you couldn't before. That's a big gain. Also, you are reflecting on your actoins and results from the night.
You are making your own moral decisions. Don't let anyone do that for you.

In short, you are better than him. You need to continue to learn how to get people to see that. But don't lose what makes you better.

As you said, you aren't judging others' choices, you are just making your own. He is right--you shouldn't limit yourself on either the one-night issue or on who you consider.

However, you should make your own thoughtful decision in the moment. What do I gain with this choice and what do I lose from this choice. Perhaps you'll meet someone who is both a first night sexual encounter AND is that long-time relationship. But that'll only work if you are you. Let him push you to be better, but don't let him take away what makes you good.

After all, how many of the people that APB has had a one-night stand with do you think would want to spend the rest of their lives with him?

Candide

Oct 7th, 2007, 11:22 AM

Thanks for taking the time to write about the experience, kwak, after I heard about some other interesting recent development related to this...

This is my opinion on ONS. If you attract the woman enough, to the extent that an ONS is highly possible - i.e there's plenty of passion and sparks between you two - you can always *choose* NOT to do it that night, take it slow with her and try to turn it into a relationship. Whether you sleep with her or not, you know her attraction is high. Better find out about that sooner than being strung along for a series of expensive dates only to find out that you've been used as a provider and she's been screwing out some other guy(s) on the side (one of worst case scenarios).

kwak76

Oct 7th, 2007, 12:40 PM

Ok ..woked up and just got 4 hours asleep. My mind is still little tired but I think I know what APB is doing. He pushes his student beyond their comfort zone. He wants his student to go above and beyond and that's why he wants his student to be committed to what they do.

In a sense I was holding back because I didn't have 100% faith behind all of his stuff. He senses that. APB is very sharp in reading people. He is hard to read but the more I spend time with him I think I understand why he does what he does.

Things that I need to work on. He calls it emotional intelligence. I miss the first 2-3 hours of lecture when he went over this. What I understand of this is that if I think I'm hot and women want me. I project that belief.

Even if I go up to a girl who may not at first like me but because I think I'm hot my behavior and action around her will some how influence her behavior into liking me. I'm weak in this area because I still have some insecurities with myself.

APB keeps telling me I'm attractive looking guy but I don't believe that in myself. He is correct. I do need to improve on this. If I can't get past this none of his stuff will work.

Being committed. PUA is skill and just like any skill you have to give 100% to it. Even if you fuck up or get rejection you keeping going and improve your skill. It could be a slow process for some. He saw how I did my pick up and allot of times I forget my canned material and go back to my natural state.

APB is like that's not improvement. Your just doing what you were doing before. Every girl I should go up to is a chance to improve my ability.

I don't know, There is so much shit I need time to ingest this.

Does PUA work? Yes, ....I didn't want to reveal what the other students did but here is some results. On the first night out. One of my fellow student got a one night lay. The first time in his life. He stuck to what APB told him to do and got the girl back to his home. She was no skank but a decent girl. I knew because I winged him and ended up with the other girl for half the night. No the I didn't sleep or do anything with the other girl but APB told me on first night that girl was into me but I was not into her.

Another fellow student. His Asian and fobby looking. Short and not the best looking guy around. First night out got a number from a 5'10 hot white girl.

Ok..like I said information overload with what he teaches me. I need to work on my inner self too.

kwak76

Oct 7th, 2007, 12:59 PM

xain,

Your right. I have my moral standards that I stick to but I think I understand why APB is doing what he is doing. He wants his student to have the option of having a one night lay. In other words your so good at this I want to get laid today so I' m going out and I will.

He wants his student to get that good. He doesn't see that in me. It's like my moral upbringing is like you can't do that to the girl. APB is like why not? if the girl is that into you. You succeeded in getting her interested in you.

The goal is not too much of the one night lay but getting her into you. I don't have to sleep with her if I CHOOSE not to but I have that CHOICE. The goal is getting that girl into you. That's developing attraction.

Like I said I 'm weak in this area. I need to re-read the material. Meet up with my fellow students and practice the drills and go out together and practice together.

My goals are not to be some great PUA. I think allot of those guys are extreme. My goals is to better myself.

(side note)

Some people are curious about APB like how he dresses. At first when I saw how he dress I was like "you got to be kidding me?". Well, on second night I brought back a set of girls to the table. Two white girls and one Indian girl. The Indian girl was attractive and she saw how APB dressed and started to ask him questions. I could tell she was into him. Maybe it's peacocking but I could tell that the way he dresses works to his advantage. I know some of you may have a hard time believing this.

Another aspect of APB because of his experience which is extreme. He does hold an extreme view point on inter-racial relationship , Asian women and white men.

He thinks Asian men should not limit themselves. Go out and date with any women. He realizes that Asian men do have dis-advantage because of race and it is real but you just keep going.

He thinks Asian women will do what's best for Asian women not for Asian people. In other words Asian female will do what's right for them but not for Asian men . I actually agree with him here.

On white men. He sees that white guys do have an advantage and allot of times white guys use their race to get girls. He doesn't like it but that's what it is. I think deep down inside he resents it. He loves to AMOG white guys that why I think this way.

jaehwan

Oct 7th, 2007, 02:08 PM

Kwak,

Thanks for posting. I still stick by my original statement that you really don't need APB and that you already knew all this stuff, but it sounds like you're having a good time, and it's interesting to hear your thoughts on the PUA thing.

RebelAzn

Oct 7th, 2007, 02:23 PM

Kwak - great report. I think what APB teaches is get you out of your comfort zone and push yourself. I think you are beginning to understand yourself better which is a HUGE improvement before the class. Basically, he is saying every Asian guy has the potential beyond whatever fucked beliefs we have instilled in ourselves due to this society or whatever. I see this deprogramming can be applied all other aspects of life, not just dating.

Like I said before, if you have confidence you can have confidence in anything you do. How you use your PUA skills is up to you. If you have the mentality that you can get laid if you want to, then you have inner game. Bottom line is have the belief you can do it and it is your option whether you do it or not.

APB is right about all women and Asian men should not limit ourselves. Most Asian men don't even try to get out of their comfort zone and that's the major problem. Based on my own experience, women of other races are much easier to approach in many cases than Asian women in social settings.

xian

Oct 7th, 2007, 03:46 PM

Well, he may be right that in the status quo the majority of people of any identity group will act in self-interest. But that doesn't mean that you have to accept that or give them respect for that.

If we all go out for ourselves, white dudes win. Period.

But anyway, I'm glad you are enjoying yourself and growing, and hope you will continue to do so long after you are done paying our friend.

kwak76

Oct 7th, 2007, 11:34 PM

3rd and last day of boot camp.

I feel like this is one of my longest weekends and yes I did spend a fair amount for this boot camp. I didn't go to the night club because I have to work tomorrow. I just did the fashion segment and the lecture.

We started with fashion. Yes, fashion. I think you have to have a look of certain kind to be notice more in the night club venues. Nothing really outlandish. Just brought myself a blazer , a new collar shirt and dark jeans. Normally I wouldn't well this stuff but this is only for nightclub venues. Went back one of the students apartment and went over the last day of lecture.

Some positive and negatives of the boot camp.

Positive: If you compare APB boot camp prices to other boot camp he is cheaper so that's bit of a benefit. APB is aware of Asian male issues. He knows about what an Asian guy may have to deal with racism.
Social networking. You meet other guys who want to improve also. You network among each other as a support. This is probably one of the biggest benefit.

Con: If your a bitter angry Asian guy who hasn't found some peace you may not be ready for boot camp. APB is not a psychologist. You have to reach a certain level of peace with yourself before taking this boot camp.

I personally think the really bitter Asian guys need the help the most but before anything happens they have to help themselves. It's different from let say an Asian guy who is geek or has no social skills but is willingly to learn. Guys like that would be great for this boot camp.

Would I recommend this boot camp to my fellow Asian brothers. Yes, I would.

Why? I gone out two nights in row and saw a fair number of Asian women with white men. I saw white men hitting on Asian women. The Asian women were hooking up with white guys.

I'm not strong in AMOGing yet but seeing those couples didn't bother me as before because i was more worried about what I had to do.

If Asian guys decided to say fuck it ..Asian girls are going to do what ever the fuck they want and fuck them and if Asian guys decided to say I'm going to get a girl for myself and it doesn't matter what race. You probably have allot less bitter Asian men.

kimtae

Oct 8th, 2007, 01:19 AM

I wonder how much was due to the bootcamp and how much was due to you just deciding to let things go. As a numbers game, I always thought you should be able to pull more than your share but in the past you never put yourself in the situation or position. So how much value did APB bring and how much was already there, just lurking under alot of self-inflicted angst.
As for networking, wouldn't you rather have friends?

RebelAzn

Oct 8th, 2007, 02:19 AM

If Asian guys decided to say fuck it ..Asian girls are going to do what ever the fuck they want and fuck them and if Asian guys decided to say I'm going to get a girl for myself and it doesn't matter what race. You probably have allot less bitter Asian men.

Kwak - good report. Glad you shared the report with many people here. I think it is hard for any guy to get out of their comfort zone and realize many limitations most guys put on themselves are all in their mind. Sometimes you need someone else to push you to get out of that comfort zone and realize the world is not out to get you.

For me personally, I grew up in a totally white community and that actually helped me. In my teens, I was forced to develop the game by working it with non-Asian women since there were no Asian women. Of course, I was also totally ignorant of many racial politics back then. I had success with non-Asian women so I don't use that as a barrier. When I moved to CA, there were many more Asian women so I used the same game on them. It works just as well. I mean to me it is just another way to meet girls. If you want a long term relationship, you still need to meet the girl in the first place.

I do agree with APB that most Asian girls could careless about what most young Asian men are going through. I mean they got their own issues so why would they try to understand Asian men. After all, they are being hit on by random guys so they will make decisions on which to go with. For Asian guys, they have to make the 1st move so situation is totally different. I only wish some Asian women would wake up and realize if their own sons someday will go through the same crap. As for you want to date other Asian females, there is nothing wrong with that and definitely go with Asian girls that are in touch with their roots.

Also, if a man can always get girls, it will make that man a lot more attractive to other women, his girlfriend or wife. She will realize you choose her because she is the one and the one you settled for because you have choices. I hope more Asian men will open their eyes and not let this society beat them down. If they have to develop themselves by taking a course such as the one from AFB, then they should just go do it cause it will help their confidence with everything else in life as well.

nskripchun

Oct 8th, 2007, 02:40 AM

nice report, kwak... but I definitely agree with some of the posters here when they say that you're already a "great guy". Yeah, you've got some insecurities, but who the hell doesn't? Dude, I've been married for less than a year, and the biggest things I've learned about myself as a "married guy" is that I'm hung up on a lot of my imperfections.

I think the fact that you're honest with yourself about your insecurities is a great first step - now the next step is not letting those insecurities limit you while you're working on improving them.

As jaehwan mentioned, maybe your "success" has more to do with you saying "f it" and getting yourself in a place to meet people rather than purely just whatever PUA knowledge you picked up? It also sounds to me like the kind of girl you'd like to meet wouldn't be hanging around a club - try a coffee shop or a book store. Haha.

VeryAngry

Oct 8th, 2007, 03:04 AM

I agree with all the guys here. You took a bootcamp, but the primary significance of it is that you pushed yourself into a new environment of not just location, but also experience, and behavior. APB may have pushed you hard, but make no mistake, it is YOU that accomplishes whatever, and you're not so much as learning or adopting something as you are bringing it out of yourself. It isnt just tactics or skills or whatever. A lot of it will become instinct and understanding.

For you to grow you will have to continually push yourself into new environments, new experiences and new ways of the "self" in order to effect paradigm shifts. I hope you don't get stuck at the "bootcamp" and nightclub game stage for too long, but it'll take as long as it'll need to. :)

I agree with the guys here that say you're a good guy. Few people have the honor of people vouching for them in such a manner! :eek:
Even so, the new experiences and things about human nature you will learn may challenge many things you believe in. I personally don't believe in morality, but I do believe in consequences, so if you're ever in doubt of anything, just pay a thought to the raw basics of consequences, and I hope that'll tide you over for the meantime. Surround yourself with good people and positive influences!

Well, good luck bro! :)

Candide

Oct 8th, 2007, 08:38 AM

A good guy sometimes needs a good kick up the arse so that he can get out there and thrive to BE his best self. :)

kwak76

Oct 8th, 2007, 09:38 AM

Kimtae,

Your more right than wrong about me. I think what APB notice about me was my comfort zone. His pretty good at reading that. He wanted me to push myself harder. To be honest if I hadn't taken that boot camp I don't think I would of. I think for some guys they need that.

When it comes to social networking I do agree it is better to have friends but the guys I met at the boot camp are interesting lot. I don't think they are bad guys . Just not that aware social in how to interact with women.

xian

Oct 8th, 2007, 11:04 AM

Well, it's not really that different from most personal growth. I think online course are pretty worthless, but I have a lot of friends who need that online class--no matter its quality to push them to do the work. For me, I need the in-the-classroom interaction to push me.

But that doesn't mean that the instructor was good. It just means that I'm not to the point that I can self-teach on everything in the world, and sometimes I need that push.

SamuraiJack

Oct 8th, 2007, 11:09 AM

It also sounds to me like the kind of girl you'd like to meet wouldn't be hanging around a club - try a coffee shop or a book store. Haha.

I think there's a misconception of girls that are into clubbing. Also, many girls that aren't into clubbing get pulled into clubs by their friends. Kwak can use his "pick up" skills in other situations as well, not just the club.

Asian Playboy should have a field exercise where they pick up girls at a bookstore hehe... or maybe crash a wedding or something ;)

nottyboy

Oct 8th, 2007, 12:13 PM

I think the cliche is accurate most of the time though, from my experience. A couple of friends of mine who are chick magnets have said the same thing. It's a low percentage way of finding the kind of woman who is wifey material.

Like you said, though, what you learn in the club is useful outside as well.

I think there's a misconception of girls that are into clubbing. Also, many girls that aren't into clubbing get pulled into clubs by their friends. Kwak can use his "pick up" skills in other situations as well, not just the club.

Asian Playboy should have a field exercise where they pick up girls at a bookstore hehe... or maybe crash a wedding or something ;)

nottyboy

Oct 8th, 2007, 12:32 PM

Sounds like you had a good experience. Do you feel you got your money's worth out of it?

People are probably right that you already had everything that you needed already inside you, but I'm sure you at least learned a few tips here and there from APB that will also help you.

It's also true that a lot of this information is available for free on the internet, and way cheaper on hundreds of books, but some people learn better by having a real live person coach them. I've yet to see a substantial amount of guys who took workshops come out feeling unsatisfied.

By the way, it's great to have friends, but you'll find that sometimes your friends are not interested in self-improvement for their own reasons. That's why it can also be a positive thing to meet and make friends with other people who are commited to similar goals as yours.

It sounds like you'll be alright. Good luck.

There would be a boot camp between Oct 5-7. I signed up for it. Some of you that remeber me from the beginning will be like yeah Kwak probably needs it where as others will be like "why?".

The reason why I signed up for it is because I think I have some weakness when it comes to approaching woman. In the few times that I was able to connect with woman I think it was a combination of luck and timing. I just want more control over this situation in my life.

I'm not going to debate about the pro or con about the PUA because that has been done in another thread. I'm just going to write about my experience and see what kind of changes if any happened.

xian

Oct 8th, 2007, 12:59 PM

I'm certainly not biased against the club atmosphere. Maybe against the American club atmosphere, but whatever.

The point is that you go into approaches often knowing very little about the person you are approaching (or being approached by) unless you are super perceptive and empathetic. If you are those two things, you probably don't need much help.

If you know little, you are better off making sure the little you do know about the person is good. If you want someone who is deep and consistent and will be honest with you, it doesn't disqualify them if they sleep with you on your first meeting, but it's probably not a good sign in itself.

If you meet them helping kids or educating themselves or helping others, that's not a guarantee by any means either, but it's a good start.

kwak76

Oct 8th, 2007, 01:05 PM

In retrospect I think I should of asked more question to APB and his other instructor.

I think I got my money worth.

When it comes to the actually PUA skill I learned it was allot. I have to review my notes to have it sink in. I think the class room setting is important. You could try to learn on your own but have bad habits and not know about it.

For example I have an Asian poker face where I don't smile that much. It doesn't mean I'm not angry or unfriendly but first impression counts. A smile could go so far. I do have a hard time smiling.

I decided to do some facial exercises but I needed an instructor to tell me some of my problems. I think my biggest is internal. I have to start thinking girls can like me. I internalize allot of self-hate because I actually believe in allot of the American racist bullshit that was force fed to me since I was a kid.

stroy telling is something else I need to work on. Why story telling? Well, I never noticed it but when you first meet a girl she doesn't know anything about you. You can tell her about yourself by good story telling that has important elements in it. Allot of times I go up to a girl and I blank out. So I think it is important to remeber key points. There is a structure that you have to follow.

Sure, you can go online and find allot of PUA skills or download an ebook that could give you an outline. But that's like me downloading a how to guide in the art of kick boxing? I mean you can learn some tech. from the how to guide but it's bit different from classroom setting.

How is APB as a teacher? I think for Asian guys he is good because he could relate with us. If he was let say Juggler who is some other PUA instructor I don't think it be the same. I don't think I could learn or relate to a 6 foot tall white guy.

Allot of PUA are white guys who are fairly good looking and tall. Looks does help but given a choice I prefer skills. When it comes to these little details that I wasn't aware of APB is very good at it . He has more tricks up his sleeves but it would just be information overload for the new students.

What he teaches you in the boot camp is just the basics but it's enough to do well in the field. As you advance there are more tech.

When it comes to morality or ethics that's a whole different topic.

nightshade

Oct 8th, 2007, 04:33 PM

For example I have an Asian poker face where I don't smile that much. It doesn't mean I'm not angry or unfriendly but first impression counts. A smile could go so far. I do have a hard time smiling.

So now, do you have an Asian poke-her face? Sorry, just teasing. Thank you for being so candid and sharing your experience with us. You sell APB much better than he sells himself.

I'm glad that you had a breakthrough. You've been struggling and working hard and so earnest.

My only advice for you is: don't think about whether a girl likes Asian guys or not. Think about why she should like you and why she's lucky to be interacting with you--the fate of the world isn't resting on your shoulders, so you shouldn't be worried about anything besides the moment when you're approaching a girl.

Good luck!

nottyboy

Oct 8th, 2007, 04:41 PM

3. I had frequent discussions with women that I knew regarding men; what turned them on and what turned them off about them. Through these discussions I learned how to approach women using women-speak. This was a very powerful tool; it instantly garnered a woman's attention because they quickly became aware that I knew their "language".

If you have time, could you expand on this [maybe on a different thread]. A friend of mine used to call it "womanese" :), and though I'm pretty sure it's the same idea, maybe you have a different take or angle on it on how you bring it to life.

RebelAzn

Oct 8th, 2007, 05:16 PM

My only advice for you is: don't think about whether a girl likes Asian guys or not. Think about why she should like you and why she's lucky to be interacting with you--the fate of the world isn't resting on your shoulders, so you shouldn't be worried about anything besides the moment when you're approaching a girl.

Good luck!

Good advice Nightshade. I think the biggest hangup for many young Asian men are the fact that they automatically assume many women won't date them because they are Asian. That's the biggest hangup. These CCBs, certain celebrities with their negative comments about Asians and constant negative stereotyping of Asian men by the media all contribute to this inner belief it is a handicap being an Asian man in this country. Yes, discussing negative stereotypes and rehash it a thousand times on the Internet is not positive either. Many guys internalize this and don't even try when it comes to women. I also think the most damaging are stereotypical comments from Asian women about Asian men. As a result, many guys never grow out of the shell and they developed many social issues. Many of these guys are nice guys, but they are terrible when it comes to interacting with women. After attending some Asian parties here and there, I think many Asian men need help in this area big time whether it comes to Asian women or not.

Also, many guys automatic assume if they go into an interracial relationship with a white girl or black girl it will never work so they don't bother to try that either. Sure, there are many racists out there who will give you a hard time, but reality is there are also women out there who are not racists and would be open to date a nice guy. I have personally experienced this too. There are some insecure guys from other races out there that will try to give you shit but remember it is your life and not theirs. Guys need confidence. If you got the balls to date a hot black chick and know how to handle all the homeboys that try to give you a hard time, then you got confidence and that's probably the most attractive thing to a girl. Trust me on this, there are many women who are open than you think. I have dated many non-Asian women and many it was their first time dating an Asian man. After me, I am sure they will be more open to other Asian men. Why is it their first time? Cause Asian men just don't approach them due to all the social hangups they have developed due to negative social programming many have experienced since they are young.

All I got to say thank god I got some good experience with women early on. I had my first real girlfriend when I was 16. Ok, I had one when I was 5 but I was too young to know better back then. Anyway, early success with women certainly helped my confidence and developed my game. Also, growing up in all white neighborhood and developed the game on non-Asian women helped that more in a way.

Also, people think reading books and watching videos will do the trick are just wrong. This is like anything else, you got to be forced to be out of your comfort zone. Have a coach like AFB will help a ton. Seriously, I think we need a ton of these dating coaches for Asian men. Hopefully, there will be more of those APB coaches out there helping some of the guys out. I really think if you can develop the social aspects of yourself, it can go a long way in life. I wish more Asians would go into Sales/Marketing vs. Engineering/medical. I always tell my sales reps to smile when they talk to clients on the phone. Attitude and how you talk to someone is WAY more important than what you say most of the time.

RebelAzn

Oct 8th, 2007, 05:22 PM

If you have time, could you expand on this [maybe on a different thread]. A friend of mine used to call it "womanese" :), and though I'm pretty sure it's the same idea, maybe you have a different take or angle on it on how you bring it to life.

Here are some things I learned throughout my own dating experience:

1. Women love to share. They love to share their feelings with the guy who listens to them. After a long day, they just want to sit there and talk with their boyfriend/husband on their day. They don't need you to tell them what to do or give them advice, they just want you to listen and PAY ATTENTION to them. If you ever wonder how girls can gossip for like 10 hours straight, well they are just sharing cause the other girl is willing to listen to bunch of nonsense. If guys can learn to listen to a woman, it will go a long way.

2. Women love sweet talk. Even if it is fake, they just want to feel they are appreciated. I think it is great to be affectionate. I know Asian cultures don't promote that, but that's something to learn. At end of the day, it is all about HOW THEY FEEL. If they feel good around you, then they will want to be with you more.

3. Women love shoes. Ok, only gay dudes know about women shoes but if you can talk intelligently with them about this, it might keep their attention.

4. Oh yeah, if you know you can attract another woman anytime it will make you 10x times more attractive to your current GF cause she knows you are with her because you choose to be with her.

Perhaps few women on the forum can share their thoughts in a non-bashing manner. I am sure it is better to hear from their point of view vs. only from other guys.

Ike

Oct 8th, 2007, 08:24 PM

5. Women are individuals. Don't get stuck in the mindset of what women like or dislike. It's good for attracting women at first when you don't know them so well, but to keep a woman, you should find out what SHE likes and wants.

AsianPlayboy

Oct 11th, 2007, 03:16 AM

PART 1 - Response & Critique (up to post #32 & misc)

In answer to some questions and comments from both Kwak and others...

You sell APB much better than he sells himself.

Heh, that's because I don't use the 44s forum as a commercial outlet (anything close I've always cleared with a 44 mod). Kwak knows my real opinion, but the overall ambiance- and I could be mistaken- is one more conducive to Keyboard Jockeying theorists...

Caveat emptor, Kwak. In APB's own admission, being a PUA only works for about 10% of guys. Since most people bullshit and exaggerate liberally, i'm guessing he really means 5%, probably less.

It actually comes from the failure rate of startup businesses but you are absolutely correct. The old 90/10 rule applies to any human worthwhile human endeavor.

Being a PUA is an EXTREME LIFESTYLE that MANY will fail at.

HOWEVER...

Becoming a man GOOD WITH WOMEN is within the capability of EVERY Asian male. THAT is something 100% of AMs can achieve.

For ahwile I was like Winston Wu thinking that America sucks . I actually thought about living in Korea but had too many investment career wise that is in the USA.

You should talk to your fellow student Will aka MC. He had the EXACT same thoughts and was actually in the process of hunting down apartments in Asia...

Now, the Winston Wu thing CAN work... but I find the concept of running away with one's tail between one's legs as- for lack of a more gentle term- a hallmark of cowardice. But hey, it CAN work if you can live with yourself.

With all the fucking free advertising APB gets on this board, he'd be a real fucktard to charge kwak full price for his bootcamp. In fact, APB should let him attend for free.

To me, the proof is in the pudding...

Ask Kwak if he thinks the time and work we put in was worth the money invested.

No, but everyone on this site is "paying" for your bootcamp when we read his ads.

Then I suggest you take it up with the 44 mods. I've ALWAYS asked permission first before posting anything remotely resembling pure commercialism versus me just poking the anthill known as The 44s.

anyway, rather than constantly obsessign over getting a partner, maybe you should think about working on liking yourself.

Dismissing the ad hominen attacks, I actually agree with you. As I tell all my clients, if you want the woman of your dreams, you have to become the MAN of her's.

It's all a numbers game, for some it's two out of three for others it's one out of a hundred but we all play that game. What do you think APB's method is grounded in? The more ho's you hit up, the more numbers you'll get.

Yes and no.

It is a number's game I will agree with you. But it's also about not only putting your best foot forward, but being your best expressive self in order to IMPROVE your chances.

And for many guys, it's simply a jumpstart. As Wayne Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

This is even as he slipped up in one post and admitted that his methods only work for 10% of guys (again, likely less than 5%)

Actually, I never slipped up. It's something I've stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN both online and in person and in multiple venues.

PU is a difficult endeavor and I don't encourage the belief that simply learning this skill gives you "Jedi mind powers" over women. It's simply a form of applied practical social skills training.

It's just a lot of hard work, self-examination, self-improvement, experience, practice, and a hardy ego.

They can do so WITHOUT paying a single dime too. Which I wrote about YEARS ago about how people can do this without paying for a bootcamp.

APB got piss at me because he thinks I'm not digging deep. He doesn't think I am committing.

Actually, I was far from pissed because I knew you were pushing outside your comfort zone. There's no easy answer for "fixing" Inner Game, confidence, et al.

Sometimes I forget how hard it was being a newbie. And since I don't do group cry-out, I prod/push/encourage/kick people out of their comfort zone. I don't call it a bootcamp for nothing...

Other than making you ACT (versus simply reacting) and having you EXAMINE yourself, I don't have a magic pill for fixing emotional turmoil.

One negative aspect which does not sit well with me. APB goals for his student is to get a one night lay if possible. I'm not against people wanting to have sex or if people wants one night lay. Up to them.

I guess that's one of the funny things... To you and others, it's not morally condoned. But at the same time one of the things that didn't sit well with ME and I believe one of the things I talked to you about that's holding you back, is what you asked me to do for you over the cell phone (ie speaking Korean...).

Don't take this as an attack, because it isn't, just the constructive comments I hope will be useful in becoming more than who you are now. You might consider talking to Albert- NYC alumnus and podcaster- because I talked to him about that very subject Tues night because he's in a similar bind.

I don't teach ethics and I let every man decide for himself as to what kind of moral compass he should follow. I have my own standards of ethics that I don't impose on others.

You are making your own moral decisions. Don't let anyone do that for you... After all, how many of the people that APB has had a one-night stand with do you think would want to spend the rest of their lives with him?

Xian, you can ask Kwak whether I hold myself to a standard of integrity. I may sleep around, but I did NOT go around lying to women that weekend (well, a little glossing here and there). Nor do I lie to any woman I'm with about my intentions or long term goals.

I didn't succeeded because I didn't fuck her but to me that was not a failure because I kept gaming her and push myself. I don't know if APB notice that or not.

Actually I did notice you in that set, you were off to the side and hugging her.

I mean, it was a positive experience because you isolated her, initiated lots of kino, more expressive, etc.

I just wrote her off immediately because:
1) She had a boyfriend
2) She had a white boyfriend
3) She had lots of other girlfriends

Unless I'm feeling like an asshole, the entire husband-boyfriend thing is a morally gray quandary that- sometimes- is more trouble than it's worth when there are so many other attractive, single women around.

APB is not too happy with my progress. He doesn't think I believe in his stuff and fall back to my old habits.

To clarify, if I may, you made plenty of progress, but it's not the skillset you should worry about (well, a little).

The technical skills are easy enough for you to master with some practice, but it's the MENTAL GAME (ie confidence) that I feel is/was holding you back.

You have the potential to do a LOT better than you were/are doing. I mean a LOT BETTER.

So it's simply a little frustrating seeing potential going untapped because of certain things you've setup in yourself.

AsianPlayboy

Oct 11th, 2007, 07:29 AM

PART 2

In a sense I was holding back because I didn't have 100% faith behind all of his stuff...

Even if you fuck up or get rejection you keeping going and improve your skill. It could be a slow process for some. He saw how I did my pick up and allot of times I forget my canned material and go back to my natural state.

APB is like that's not improvement. Your just doing what you were doing before. Every girl I should go up to is a chance to improve my ability.

I don't know, There is so much shit I need time to ingest this.

The "process" is simply social training.

If you keep on depending on old habits, you'll get the same results. Technical wise, I'd say the top three things you should work on is conveying:
1) a full range of emotions (remember how we ranked your top three emotions?),
2) learn to naturally generate spontaneous & genuine stories (the exercises we did),
3) and be more physically expressive.

Inner Game wise, will, I think we talked about that for many hours.

He doesn't see that in me. It's like my moral upbringing is like you can't do that to the girl.

See, I don't see the question of morality being the problem.

Or, to put it more accurately, you are:
1) Comfortable (if not happy) in complacency
2) You have ambiguous relationships
3) You're "natural" when average/cute girls are attracted to you
4) You seem to "lock up" with more attractive girls

Every man chooses how he lives. It's not enough to HAVE the skills. You can practice PU your entire life, but trying to just keep one foot in the safety zone will only hold you back.

Would I recommend this boot camp to my fellow Asian brothers. Yes, I would.

Thank you.

So how much value did APB bring and how much was already there, just lurking under alot of self-inflicted angst.

Of course. A teacher is only as good as his students.

My suggestions are:

1) Surround yourself with people who want you to succeed
2) Clear up your relationship status
3) Take salsa lessons
4) Take public speaking like Toastmasters
5) Balance your play and work time
6) Examine your life and package the best elements for conversations
7) Force yourself to engage attractive women
8) Divorce yourself from the outcome
9) Believe and WANT that you deserve/are better
10) Smile more!

ellencho

Oct 11th, 2007, 09:24 AM

To me, the proof is in the pudding...

Ask Kwak if he thinks the time and work we put in was worth the money invested.

Then I suggest you take it up with the 44 mods. I've ALWAYS asked permission first before posting anything remotely resembling pure commercialism versus me just poking the anthill known as The 44s.

I'm still not convinced you're not a fucktard. Everyone knows kwak is way too much of a nice and humble of a guy to suggest a discount from you. Dialectic has been incredibly nice about allowing you to advertise on this forum and you don't cut a brother a break, but hey, I understand, you need that 1200 to spend on mole polishing cream, that's cool.

What's not cool is that you've called this place an "anthill". While I have no illusions as to the scope of this forum, what you said was just plain disrespectful. I'd normally say that this is biting the hand that feeds you, but since it's you, it's more like you've given the hand that feeds you herpes.

xian

Oct 11th, 2007, 11:15 PM

Ewww! The guy I thought was a monkey in a spacesuit gave us manual herpes! Ewww!

AZN MAN

Oct 14th, 2007, 04:48 PM

If you have time, could you expand on this [maybe on a different thread]. A friend of mine used to call it "womanese" :), and though I'm pretty sure it's the same idea, maybe you have a different take or angle on it on how you bring it to life.

I like your hair; you really know how to style it so that it brings out the natural accents of your face.
Man's Translation: Your face is jamming.

You have a flair for fashion, you know how to select clothing that highlights your physical attributes. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you.
Man's Translation: Your body's slamming, now open your book and let's get to ramming.

nottyboy

Oct 18th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Got it. Thanks!

I like your hair; you really know how to style it so that it brings out the natural accents of your face.
Man's Translation: Your face is jamming.

You have a flair for fashion, you know how to select clothing that highlights your physical attributes. I'm sure I could learn a lot from you.
Man's Translation: Your body's slamming, now open your book and let's get to ramming.

nottyboy

Oct 18th, 2007, 10:38 AM

Here are some things I learned throughout my own dating experience:

2. Women love sweet talk. Even if it is fake, they just want to feel they are appreciated. I think it is great to be affectionate. I know Asian cultures don't promote that, but that's something to learn. At end of the day, it is all about HOW THEY FEEL. If they feel good around you, then they will want to be with you more.

I think in my culture we have the opposite problem. We're bombarded with outright sappy stuff all year long. Well, I can only speak for myself, because that's the stuff I used to listen to. :)

3. Women love shoes. Ok, only gay dudes know about women shoes but if you can talk intelligently with them about this, it might keep their attention.

:lol: They sure do notice, but I still don't get why some styles appeal so much to them. My friend, for example, has these pair of boots that are very similar in look to some ostrich skin Gucci boots, and he gets looks and compliments all the time, even when he wears them with something that doesn't match. To me, no matter how expensive they look, they're just ugly ass boots; women love them, though. :)

VeryAngry

Oct 19th, 2007, 05:57 PM

Please do not talk about women's shoes. Do not even pay women's shoes any attention whatsoever. If you do, you deserve to have your scrotum cut out and made into a purse.

You know why? It is because you are your own person, so you should explore your own passions fully and speak of them with pride. If your passion is World of Warcraft then you are in trouble, but I trust that this is not the case.

I like all the other suggestions though.

angi

Oct 19th, 2007, 09:40 PM

So, without reading this massive thread, did kwak ever get laid?

kwak76

Oct 20th, 2007, 04:56 AM

HAHAHAHA..

Love you angi..I took this boot camp to be better around girls not for the sole purpose of getting laid. I think if somebody really wants to get laid it's not that hard but it is hard to develop a relationship with a girl.

My problem was I didn't feel that I have enough options in life when it comes to girls. In order to have more options in life I have to meet more girls. I have to meet them and develop attraction. Getting laid is a whole different matter.

It's been two weeks after I took the boot camp. The best part of the boot camp is the social network. I meet other guys who are in my shoes but may have different goals from me. Other guys may just want to get laid or others want to find that special someone. In any case you have to meet a girl and develop attraction.

Since it been two weeks I been field testing some of the stuff I learned. It's not easy. It's like that martial arts analogy I made before. You learn a self -defense move and you know it works because your instructor demo. it for you but you have to practice it in order to get better. You mess up you may forget you moves but you still have to practice and slowly but surely you will improve. That's PUA for you.

kwak76

Oct 20th, 2007, 06:42 AM

I have to add I usually don't approach white girls. I prefer Asian and mostly Koreans however, as a social experiment I just wanted to see how it feels like approaching and chatting with white women.

Let me say that for the few that I did they were rather very cold. At least when I got rejected by Asian women they had a smile on their face but with white women it's like I don't exist.

I really commend Asian men who approach and date white women consistently . It's really tough.

Vahz

Oct 20th, 2007, 12:50 PM

I think you've just had bad luck with those white women because I've had the opposite experience. All the non-Asian women were really nice and it was the Asian girls that seem to give me the virtual finger.

xian

Oct 20th, 2007, 05:00 PM

Then you should virtually finger them back. Oh wait, uh, nevermind.

Candide

Oct 21st, 2007, 07:27 AM

kwak76

Oct 21st, 2007, 07:51 PM

kimtae

Oct 21st, 2007, 10:39 PM

whosyourdaddy

Oct 21st, 2007, 11:27 PM

hello kwak. it seems like you had an interesting experience attending APB's bootcamp. At the same time you could have just watched VH1's reality series that basically just shows you basically what happens, and most of what you were talking about is on APB's site or elsewhere on the net.

The thing is, you really didn't prepare for your boot camp. This is the worst thing. It is like when you take an SAT prep class and you don't do any preparation, do any of the exercises or any of the homework.

What you really need is a lot of time to think about, practice, change and work on the issues that were discussed and return to try again, which is when the real improvement will occur. This is just the first step.

Although many people here seem to be against the idea, why not try it? what exactly do you have to lose, besides a little time? If it is not for you, you can always choose not to continue.

That said, although you DO need improvement in many areas in how you deal with women, I feel that perhaps APB's boot camps may not be the best path for you.

Judging from your posts, you seem to be a very Koreanized person who specifically seeks Korean girls. Personally, i think your time would be better spent learning these things, learning the ropes, dating women and having relationships in Korea.

Judging from your posts, you spend too much energy and effort on the few Korean girls you are able to meet in NYC. (and spend the rest of your time agonizing about it)

Things can be very different in Korea. To say that all Asian men suffer or have problems with women in general is simply not the case.

Now i know that you can't just hop a plane and fly to korea tommorow. You have a job and responsibilities.

As absurd as this may sound, you should really get to know Korea and korean women better, as that is your ultimate goal.

You should check out K-dramas that almost always involve relationships and romance. If you want to see K-men who are very successful with women, check out "let's go to school, sang doo" (starring Rain), "we are dating" (starring kwon sang soo) and friends, a joint korea/japan venture starring won bin.

most women in korea prefer serious, committed relationships, although that is not to say that casual ones are not uncommon either.

However, what you also see in K-dramas, is that there are also many guys who are NOT very good with women. This is an area in which you can improve.

In the event that your korean is poor, pm me and i can email you a site where you can view k-dramas with english subtitles.

whosyourdaddy

Oct 21st, 2007, 11:33 PM

just wanted to add that just simple confidence and cockiness isn't what gets women, and in particular, quality women. Guys who are shy can be great with women and have many admirers.

what you need to focus upon is not just the aspect of picking up women, but rather what makes you attractive to them, and your interaction, expressions and yes confidence without being too arrogant.

this is where PUA stuff leaves off. It teaches you the beginning parts, i.e. how to get a woman. But the more important part--- HOW TO KEEP A WOMAN...!

Candide

Oct 22nd, 2007, 01:25 AM

Guys who are shy can be great with women and have many admirers.

I have never met the first type of shy guys, but have heard of them from movies and novels. I know there are shy guys who have many admirers, but I think they prefer having their admirers in bed with them than standing afar off. :D

Candide,

I think your right about that. When it comes to vibe I'm not sure how you turn it on or off. It's like energy that you give off . It can be positive or negative. People either feed on it or are repel by it. I need to work on that "vibe".

Have an pointers in improving on it?

You do a fair bit of fitness training, IIRC? You know how great it feels after a good workout session, right? That buzzing energy is what you want yourself to have when interacting with others, because it will create that awesome vibe that attracts people. When you have that energy flowing through you, it doesn't really matter what you say or how you approach a set.

Of course you don't have to pump iron like a mad man everytime before going out. :D You just need a way to "switch on" that feeling or energy flow when you need it. I assume that you've read some materials and are familiar with NLP and kino? Perform them on yourself. You know how music stirs up memories and emotions in people, right? Same concept here, and you can use that to your advantage. When you know you're having that energy, try associating your feeling at that time with a song, a dance step, a touch, a chant, or whatever works for you. Practice it often enough and you'll be able to recall it (or a large part of it) almost at will and be very subtle at that.

Scowl

Oct 22nd, 2007, 01:31 AM

It kinda sounds like you're suggesting to kwak that he choke the chicken before hitting the club.

nottyboy

Oct 22nd, 2007, 08:39 AM

It kinda sounds like you're suggesting to kwak that he choke the chicken before hitting the club.

They did it in Something About Mary. ;-)

Kwak,

This link could help: http://www.nlp-hypnosis.ws/nlp_anchoring.htm

sab

Oct 25th, 2007, 03:06 PM

nightshade

Oct 25th, 2007, 03:37 PM

if you are thinking about a vibe you are already lost. be yourself and see who is still with you at the end of the night. repeat till something ends up in your bed.

Something? Fuck, this is exactly why women are hating on the whole language of PUA.

ellencho

Oct 25th, 2007, 05:59 PM

Something? Fuck, this is exactly why women are hating on the whole language of PUA.
It's better they fuck "something" than an actual woman. There are plenty of watermelons with holes cut in them who need love too you know.

Candide

Oct 25th, 2007, 09:18 PM

Something? Fuck, this is exactly why women are hating on the whole language of PUA.

"Be yourself" (and the "something ends up in your bed" - that's just rude) isn't something a PUA would say, as it's a lazy advice that people give to others just so that they don't sound clueless when asked. If you girls want to be condescending, make sure you have the right target first.

AsianPlayboy

Nov 26th, 2007, 09:39 AM

Candide,

I think your right about that. When it comes to vibe I'm not sure how you turn it on or off. It's like energy that you give off . It can be positive or negative. People either feed on it or are repel by it. I need to work on that "vibe".

Have an pointers in improving on it?

My own little two cents.

Having felt much renewed from my sabbatical having taught in Australia (where one of our Asian brothers is now seriously dating a woman long term post-bootcamp) and this weekend teaching two Asian FOBs with the heart of LIONS, I feel that Kwak- despite or because of having the PHYSICAL advantages- and in all due respect, becomes complacent.

It's too easy to fall into a rut or the easy path until we (and I as this weekend I re-learned) are reminded that familiarity and complacency is not always the best lifestyle choice.

Or, in other words, Kwak is already in a decent place to begin with.

I believe that while Kwak WANTS to become better, but he has yet to PUSH himself to become better.

As I always say on the last day and firmly believe, "If you want the woman of your dreams, you need to be the MAN of her dreams."

But that's a choice HE has to make. Not me. Not you. Not anyone else. But Kwak, the man himself, has to choose for himself.

And after this weekend and rest period, damn, I feel good.

Seeing two Asian FOBs- despite their cultural ignorance- standing up for themselves by successfully picking up women but ALSO standing up for themselves and their girl in the face of hostile Asian haters...

It does this old, jaded man proud.

I think the 44s serve a purpose and I've admitted to Dialetic that I love injecting polemic comments just to rile things up, but to see once timid Asian boys grow up before my very eyes over three days and three nights not only in terms of pick up but also with regards to joining a support network that helps out ALL men of color, living up to a high level of conduct, and not backing the fuck down in the face of intimidation and white privilege...

Well, I just fucking love my job.

Here's to Kwak, who's got what it takes, and here's to my fellow Asian brothers with the heart of the FOBBY lion.

I'd back them up against any damn fool lucky enough to be born with a silver spoon and/or color of skin.