Hapas and IR

[Ike]

Don't know what you two are talking about but I like meat on my bones. Maybe because I'm not full Asian.

Which brings me to ask a question about IR I've had for a while. What do hapas count as?

What are y'all's feelings toward the following?
-hapa guy / full Asian girl
-full Asian guy / hapa girl
-white guy / hapa girl
-hapa guy / white girl

Does it make a difference how "white" or "Asian" the person looks?

Does it make a difference whether he/she has a "white" or "Asian" last name?

Does it make a difference how the person identifies him/herself?

[Ike]

What are y'all's feelings toward the following?
-hapa guy / full Asian girl
-full Asian guy / hapa girl
-white guy / hapa girl
-hapa guy / white girl

Does it make a difference how "white" or "Asian" the person looks?

Does it make a difference whether he/she has a "white" or "Asian" last name?

Does it make a difference how the person identifies him/herself?

Okay I'm quoting myself to answer my questions.

I think a hapa guy / Asian girl couple is borderline WM/AF for the girl because she might think the guy is "almost" white and "not really" Asian. However, the guy probably doesn't fetishize the girl (who probably reminds him of his mother), and is quite likely to be proud of his Asian heritage (otherwise, he'd just go mainstream and date white).

Asian guy / hapa girl seems to be fine.

White guy / hapa girl might be problematic for the same reasons as WM/AF.

Hapa guy / white girl doesn't really have much to do with AAs at all because the guy probably passes as being white.

Yes, it makes a difference how Asian the person looks, because that's what this dating thing is all about, right? How it looks. I don't think the last name matters because, again, this comes back to how it looks, not what is actually going on. And it doesn't really matter how the person sees him/herself, for the same reasons.

However, that seems to be a really unfair stance to take, because plenty of hapa guys care about AA issues (seems like more than hapa girls do). So it kind of just seems like a lose/lose situation for them. (Thinking of DONKEY and CJF here...)

[CJF]

A thread started from a quote from me. I feel so special:o :p I'm guessing you live in an area with a lot of hapas Ike? No? Just guessing from your hapa threads or are you one yourself and I'm just confused like I was with your gender.

I don't know. I know there are a lot of Asian girls that want to get with hapas because they want to get a white boy without selling out.

Yet I can't recall too many Asian men obsessed with getting with hapa girls. Then again from what I heard, hapa girls are the hot things in Asia where the male movie stars are dating. Stephen Chow and Karen Mok. The dude from one of the police stories and Page.

But keep in mind that applies to the whiter looking hapas, which I'd say it doesn't apply to half of us. Jason Scott Lee is way more Asian looking than white, whereas Keauneau (wtf is his name so hard to spell) Reeves is more on the white side.

From hapa dating trends, hapa men tend to go more for Asian women, and hapa women tend to go for more white men. So the trend is similar to Asians. And it's funny because this very issue has divided Eurasiannation.com and has pretty much inspired a male member to create an unofficial EAN offshoot site particularly for men.

[CJF]

Which brings me to ask a question about IR I've had for a while. What do hapas count as?

What are y'all's feelings toward the following?
-hapa guy / full Asian girl
-full Asian guy / hapa girl
-white guy / hapa girl
-hapa guy / white girl

Does it make a difference how "white" or "Asian" the person looks?

Does it make a difference whether he/she has a "white" or "Asian" last name?

Does it make a difference how the person identifies him/herself?


Hapa guy/Asian gal- This is most of my relationships (I haven't been in that many though so don't hate. I'm the anti-pimp dammit). Hapa guys seem to connect more with their Asian side in general, and thus prefer an Asian girl. Asian girls get a white boy without selling out.

Full asian guy/hapa girl- Matters where you live. In Asia this seems like a trend for celebs. Like the black men and white women, it seems that some Asian men feel that to top off their success, they need a hapa girl. For the hapa girls in Asia, they are more in touch of their Asian roots and see all the whites their as bums.

In America, this seems like a very natural relationship. Though I do know of some Hapa girls who really hate their whiteness and especially want to get in touch of their Asian side, a lot like Asian men...sorta like me, lol.

White guy/hapa girl- This is like WM/AF to me though don't blame the Hapa girl as much as AF. Many hapa girls live in all white areas and have no choice. At the same time there are many hapa girls that are ashamed of their Asian side and seem to be obsessed of ridding their Asian genes. For white men, this is totally a fetish in most cases. They get a girl with Asian features. At the same time more acceptable to their parents. So it's the white mans version of getting an Asian girl that is more presentable to mommy since the quapa kids will look more white.

hapa guy/white girl- sort of like AM/WF. Some of the hapas relate to their white side more thus want a white girl. White girl is liberal enough to date a minority.



In conclusion, we are more complicated. Hapas are divided into 3 categories. More asian looking or more euro looking. So it's harder to have feelings for this.

[DONKEY]

hmm seems like most the hapa guys ive known did not date white or Asian for some reason. this may be because of my region.
the only hapa/hapa couple ive seen here were two dudes.

[inferno]

Jason Scott Lee is way more Asian looking than white
That is because his mother is Chinese and his father is Chinese-Hawaiian.

[maogirl]

nope, mixed race asians are considered better catches on the colonial ladder in asia than gweilos because unless that gweilo is a high-ranking person, there is still a whiff of prostitution that surrounds the relationship.

whereas mixed race people are "just asian enough" but with "good caucasian features" but more often than not, they are more easily integrated into the culture, which is still quite important for living in asia. being mixed race provides you with a lot of opportunities in a lot of fields and in day to day life, as well.

i suspect that if you ask, most men and women in asia would choose a mixed race partner over a gwei.



edited to add: incidentally, this is a retarded thread, but i couldn't let misconceptions like this pass without comment

[CJF]

That is because his mother is Chinese and his father is Chinese-Hawaiian.
Ah I see. I always thought he was because of the Lee in the end of his name thinking he had a white mom.

[CJF]

nope, mixed race asians are considered better catches on the colonial ladder in asia than gweilos because unless that gweilo is a high-ranking person, there is still a whiff of prostitution that surrounds the relationship.

whereas mixed race people are "just asian enough" but with "good caucasian features" but more often than not, they are more easily integrated into the culture, which is still quite important for living in asia. being mixed race provides you with a lot of opportunities in a lot of fields and in day to day life, as well.

i suspect that if you ask, most men and women in asia would choose a mixed race partner over a gwei.



edited to add: incidentally, this is a retarded thread, but i couldn't let misconceptions like this pass without commentWhat's retarded about it?

And I agree. In Malaysia most of the movie stars were not locals but mixed race.

And in the Phillipines, mixed race Mestizos who have spanish and native blood control politics and finance.

As for me, I don't see any benefits. Why do I always get screwed dammit.

[afterdark]

Hapa guy/Asian gal- This is most of my relationships (I haven't been in that many though so don't hate. I'm the anti-pimp dammit). Hapa guys seem to connect more with their Asian side in general, and thus prefer an Asian girl. Asian girls get a white boy without selling out.

Full asian guy/hapa girl- Matters where you live. In Asia this seems like a trend for celebs. Like the black men and white women, it seems that some Asian men feel that to top off their success, they need a hapa girl. For the hapa girls in Asia, they are more in touch of their Asian roots and see all the whites their as bums.

In America, this seems like a very natural relationship. Though I do know of some Hapa girls who really hate their whiteness and especially want to get in touch of their Asian side, a lot like Asian men...sorta like me, lol.

White guy/hapa girl- This is like WM/AF to me though don't blame the Hapa girl as much as AF. Many hapa girls live in all white areas and have no choice. At the same time there are many hapa girls that are ashamed of their Asian side and seem to be obsessed of ridding their Asian genes. For white men, this is totally a fetish in most cases. They get a girl with Asian features. At the same time more acceptable to their parents. So it's the white mans version of getting an Asian girl that is more presentable to mommy since the quapa kids will look more white.

hapa guy/white girl- sort of like AM/WF. Some of the hapas relate to their white side more thus want a white girl. White girl is liberal enough to date a minority.

In conclusion, we are more complicated. Hapas are divided into 3 categories. More asian looking or more euro looking. So it's harder to have feelings for this.

I agree with CJF. And if I may add briefly:

I don’t consider hapa male/AF to be interracial especially if the male obviously looks mixed or more Asian than Caucasian. From my experience those men tend to identify more with their Asian heritage, and consider themselves Asian. They often deal with the same negative stereotypes that Asian men have to. My hapa friends have dated non-Asian women and as they’ve grown older they have expressed that they feel most comfortable with Asian women and have chosen to be in relationships with AFs. So, when I see a hapa male with an AF I assume, rightly or wrongly, that the hapa male wants to be with someone who can emphasize with his life experiences and share his concerns for the APA community. Though… I wouldn’t be surprised if a number of hapa men engaged in relationships with AFs did so because their part or full Asian appearance made it difficult for them to find non-Asian partners willing to date someone of Asian descent.

I know there are hapas that look more Caucasian than Asian and some who may even be able to pass as fully Caucasian, but in all my time I’ve personally never met one, even living in the Los Angeles area. If I were to come across such an individual with an AF I would assume it was your typical interracial coupling and feel that slight sting that some of us feel.

As for hapa women, I can’t say I know of any who have ever dated an Asian man. They either engage exclusively in relationships with Caucasian men or on very rare occasions with hapa men who share the same Asian ethnic heritage.

[Vahz]

It all comes down to what the hapa looks like. It's shallow but hey, race is based on how one is procieved. I also haven't known of any female hapa that have gone out with Asian men exclusively. I know of only one who's with an Asian guy but not real life friends with them.

[Ike]

One of my friends is a hapa woman who prefers dating Asian men. She's pretty white-looking, but very Asian-cultured.

I know of only one who's with an Asian guy but not real life friends with them.

So she's dating someone whom she's never met in real life?

[CJF]

It's kinda sad for the hapa community IMHO.At least for full Asians, the majority still date one another

But for the hapa community, hapa unions are very rare. The girls tend to want to be white. The men tend to want to be more Asian like myself.

The girls are accepted by white society easily since the white guys get an Asian girl who is westernized...while men are often shoved away and join Asian society which is more accepting.

Anyways, I don't get my hopes up for hooking up with a hapa girl...because the ones I do come across are too fucking white for me and I just don't feel too comfortable around white people.

[Ike]

Yeah but how do you feel about dating Asian women who really just want a white guy? (As explained in your own description of AF/.5M couples)

[wuwei]

Can we end this obsession with white people and their peripherals?

[RebelAzn]

I agree with Wuwei. Can we end this unhealthy obsession with white people in general? It is funny if we are to talk about hapas, we only talk about Asian/white ones.

Why does it surprise people we live in an Anglo-Saxon culture where white people control the media and always broadcast things that favor them? Either we do our best to deal with it or we can try to change our own behaviors in our daily lives. The most important thing is be aware of what's going and not being manipulated like a little puppet.

As for hapas, I have dated a couple. I thought mentally those girls were a little screwed up and that's why it did not last. I think it is dangerous for all of us to categorize all the hapas into some kind of category like all their behaviors are similar or something. I am pretty sure most hapas date based on their experiences. Some will reject their Asian side and some will not. I met one hapa girl who grew up in Oklahoma who told me she wishes she knew some Asian culture since her mother (one of those Korean war brides) never taught her anything about Korean culture even though her mother barely spoke English. She was somewhat interested in me at the time even though she had a white boyfriend when I met her.

One of my very good friends while growing up was a hapa guy. My friend always claimed his Chinese heritage more since he had a Chinese last name. I knew couple of hapa guys too. One was dating mostly Asian women even though he also dated white girls. The other one pretty much dated all white girls. Both had Asian fathers BTW. I would suspect most white looking hapas end up with white partners. I think it is already mess up enough to go through identity crisis as Asian Americans, it must be double being a hapa. Until this country accepts the fact that there are a ton of non Anglo-Saxon people are already living here and they promote more balanced media images of all the races, these identity and racial issues will always be there. It is really up to parents to instill culture value and pride in one's ethnicity or ethnicities.

[CJF]

Yeah but how do you feel about dating Asian women who really just want a white guy? (As explained in your own description of AF/.5M couples)

funny you mentioned that, because this one girl I was dating, thai/seasian mix said she always dreamed of having kids that were part white. I felt very uncomfortable about that.

[Ike]

Can we end this obsession with white people and their peripherals?

Well IR is mostly a problem involving white people. I've seen 2 AF/BM couples and 1 AM/BF couple in my (admittedly short) life, and I've only personally known 1 mixed black/Asian person.

[CJF]

Well IR is mostly a problem involving white people. I've seen 2 AF/BM couples and 1 AM/BF couple in my (admittedly short) life, and I've only personally known 1 mixed black/Asian person.

exactly. Most mixedasians in the US are overwhelmingly of Asian and white ancestry. And that is East and SE Asian, with very few arabian and Indians.

Though interestingly enough, I saw an AM/BF couple at my school at registration the other day. Both were hott :o

[RebelAzn]

exactly. Most mixedasians in the US are overwhelmingly of Asian and white ancestry. And that is East and SE Asian, with very few arabian and Indians.

Though interestingly enough, I saw an AM/BF couple at my school at registration the other day. Both were hott :o

There you go. Things can change. It would be so nice to actually see Asians date other people of color vs. only white. How about the concept we actually date people for who they are vs. what their skin colors are? What a concept eh? Some Asian women especially need to examine why they always fall for all the lies spread by white men controlled (ok, mostly Jewish men controlled) media. If there is one thing I can't stand is minorities who are not comfortable with who they are and somehow feel the need to associate with whites just for the sole purpose of "being accepted".

[CJF]

Well, I think one problem is Asian parents discourage their kids from going black or mexican.

Actually, I know some East Asian parents who rather have their kids go white than SEAsian because they see SEAsian as lower class.

I think if we want to cure ourselves as Asians of white worship, the very first thing we have to do is stop it with this obsession with social class.

This doesn't seem to be as big a problem in the SEAsian community such as Khmer, Pinoy/Pinays, Laos, Hmong, Mien etc. as it is in the East Asian community. I see tons of Cambodians and Hmong with other races.

When I was in Fresno, I rarely saw Hmong girls dating outside Hmong men as a matter of fact.

[RebelAzn]

Well, I think one problem is Asian parents discourage their kids from going black or mexican.

Actually, I know some East Asian parents who rather have their kids go white than SEAsian because they see SEAsian as lower class.

I think if we want to cure ourselves as Asians of white worship, the very first thing we have to do is stop it with this obsession with social class.

This doesn't seem to be as big a problem in the SEAsian community such as Khmer, Pinoy/Pinays, Laos, Hmong, Mien etc. as it is in the East Asian community. I see tons of Cambodians and Hmong with other races.

When I was in Fresno, I rarely saw Hmong girls dating outside Hmong men as a matter of fact.

Well I don't know any Chinese parents who encourage their kids to marry white. I am sure there are some but most Chinese parents tend to want their kids to marry Chinese and Chinese only.

I think white worshiping is there because those people who do so are really really insecure of who they are. People need to realize it is much more of a mental thing than reality. Some white people only feel white supremacy because their own media constantly bashes other cultures or races and constantly try to put white on a pedestal like Hitler used to do. As a minority living in the good old USA, you need to be really really strong to have your own sense of value and confidence. Keep in mind if a white person think he/she is better because she/he is white, then that belief only exists in their perceived reality and it is not the actual reality. If you believe that too then it becomes their and your actual reality. If you don't believe it, then it is just a simple matter to change the frame of that reality. Bottom line is you have to have conviction in your beliefs and quiet confidence about it.

Just remember all these images of whites are mostly hype and far from reality. I see reality of white people on the streets of San Francisco every day. I see homeless people who are white all the time. There are many many down and out of luck white people in this country no one cares about. Media don't care about them but they would do 200000000000 stories on Paris Hilton and how she goes to bathroom. Just keep in mind actual reality is what you make of it and really really believe in it.

[Anansasem]

"Hapa?" Would any of you truly consider someone with any 'black' heritage this way? I doubt it, there is even a separate designation- blasian. Apparently, the 'one-drop-rule' remains prevalent in every way.

I'm Caribbean 'black,' Norwegian 'white,' and Japanese 'Asian.' Though, the 'black' is further divided from my great-grandfather's Trinidad origins into African, Asian Indian, Arawak American Indian, and possibly some Spanish.

'Black,' 'white,' 'Asian,' 'Desi,' 'Native American,' 'Mestizo,' 'Mulatto,' 'East Indian,' 'West Indian,' 'Latino,' 'Caribbean,' 'Blasian,' and now 'Hapa.'

I almost wish I never looked into my family history. Heritage from all of these, yet none of them can apply to me, can I accept, or be accepted into them. I've been accepted as 'mixed' black to some extent when I was younger, though now I'm commonly perceived as anything from South American to Middle Eastern. I'm more 'white' than anything else, fully 50% Norwegian on my mother's side. Though, 'white?' I can guess how that will go over.

Let me ask you a question, is any relationship I enter interracial or not? I'll be of the same 'race' as almost anyone, but also of a different 'race' than almost anyone? I haven't been able to answer it yet, myself.

CJF, I live with a large number of Hmong in my community (my sister, in all but blood, is Hmong), and I've noticed that the darker skin-toned Asians/S/SE will more commonly integrate with other minorities while the lighter ones (Chinese, Korean, etc.) will stick to either their own or 'whites.' Seem like this to you?

[CJF]

Do you live in Fresno or Minneapolis? LOL.

I notice the same thing. I see tons of Cambodians with blacks and mexicans. But again this is mostly the girls whereas the guys usually stick to their own kind.

[CJF]

Well I don't know any Chinese parents who encourage their kids to marry white. I am sure there are some but most Chinese parents tend to want their kids to marry Chinese and Chinese only.

I think white worshiping is there because those people who do so are really really insecure of who they are. People need to realize it is much more of a mental thing than reality. Some white people only feel white supremacy because their own media constantly bashes other cultures or races and constantly try to put white on a pedestal like Hitler used to do. As a minority living in the good old USA, you need to be really really strong to have your own sense of value and confidence. Keep in mind if a white person think he/she is better because she/he is white, then that belief only exists in their perceived reality and it is not the actual reality. If you believe that too then it becomes their and your actual reality. If you don't believe it, then it is just a simple matter to change the frame of that reality. Bottom line is you have to have conviction in your beliefs and quiet confidence about it.

Just remember all these images of whites are mostly hype and far from reality. I see reality of white people on the streets of San Francisco every day. I see homeless people who are white all the time. There are many many down and out of luck white people in this country no one cares about. Media don't care about them but they would do 200000000000 stories on Paris Hilton and how she goes to bathroom. Just keep in mind actual reality is what you make of it and really really believe in it.
You are right in that Asian families don't encourage their kids to go white. At the same time, they do encourage their kids to gain status and wealth. Social status is very important in many East Asian families. And many times, the girl gets a message that to get good social status, they must integrate with white society. Even though that is not the intention of the parents.

I think that explains why it's East Asians that seem to go with whites at a higher rate than the darker Asians.

[Anansasem]

CJF, Southern Wisconsin. Madison and Milwaukee to be specific, the Hmong aren't required to be in Fresno or Minneapolis . Here, they tend to clash with 'whites' more than any other minority group.

[CJF]

CJF, Southern Wisconsin. Madison and Milwaukee to be specific, the Hmong aren't required to be in Fresno or Minneapolis . Here, they tend to clash with 'whites' more than any other minority group.
Oh I know. But I just know that Fresno has one of the highest Hmong populations in the US. I think 100K hmong live there.

I heard there are bumper stickers that go "Why hunt a deer if you can hunt a hmong"

[nekohead]

"CJF, I live with a large number of Hmong in my community (my sister, in all but blood, is Hmong), and I've noticed that the darker skin-toned Asians/S/SE will more commonly integrate with other minorities while the lighter ones (Chinese, Korean, etc.) will stick to either their own or 'whites.' Seem like this to you?


Not all True. My Pale as Heck hubby is with my Tan butt.
But, I do have to say You have a point.
Where you BEEN?
I am Not calling you anymore because you never answer!!!

[Makulita]

Oh I know. But I just know that Fresno has one of the highest Hmong populations in the US. I think 100K hmong live there.

I heard there are bumper stickers that go "Why hunt a deer if you can hunt a hmong"

That's due to a case where a Hmong hunter, Chai Soua Vang I think his name was, was out in the woods hunting when... blah blah blah, I forget exactly what went on to cause it but he ended up killing some white boys by accident. Then, naturally, he got arrested because you can't be killing people in 5 in the morning covered in deer piss deep in the woods.

Then, y'know how the story goes. O noes colred person kilt sum whait folkz, must durect zinofobia onto Veng!!!11!!!1!!!!

[Anansasem]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people#The_Americas http://www.uwec.edu/econ/research/hmong/index.htm
CJF, I doubt it's anywhere near that many. Granted this is seven years old, but there were less than 100,000 Hmong in all of California and I doubt they've all migrated to Fresno. Granted they replace 'blacks' as the undesirables here in Wisconsin, though they generally do better here than in the other two Hmong concentrated states.

Makulita, be quiet, you're irritating.

Here's the story. There was a shooting death of a Hmong hunter by 'white' hunters prior to this, culminating in the murder of six 'white' hunters at the hands of a Hmong. Now, it almost seems as though they're having an unofficial armed conflict.
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2004/11/23/0411230408.php
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2007/02/15/0702150309.php

Nekohead, I keep telling you. With the time difference, you're always calling me at 2-3 in the morning!

[CJF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people#The_Americas http://www.uwec.edu/econ/research/hmong/index.htm
CJF, I doubt it's anywhere near that many. Granted this is seven years old, but there were less than 100,000 Hmong in all of California and I doubt they've all migrated to Fresno. Granted they replace 'blacks' as the undesirables here in Wisconsin, though they generally do better here than in the other two Hmong concentrated states.

Makulita, be quiet, you're irritating.

Here's the story. There was a shooting death of a Hmong hunter by 'white' hunters prior to this, and it almost seems as though they're having an unofficial armed conflict. http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2007/02/15/0702150309.php

Well, just recently Fresno hit the 1 million population mark (told by a friend who works for city planning and development), and I understand that Fresno is about 10% Asian which is mostly Hmong. So that's where I'm getting the 100K figure.

If it is not that much then it is probably close IMO. Fresno recently elected a hmong to a pretty high seat in office.

[Anansasem]

I'm not trying to argue with you or disprove you, but:
http://www.hmongcenter.org/hmonpop.html
California - 70,000-85,000 Hmong including 25,000 in Fresno, 13,000 in Sacramento, 12,000 in Merced, 7,000 in Stockton, 4,000 in Marysville and 3,500-4,000 in Modesto.

[Makulita]

... Yak Yak Yak Yak Yak Yak Yak.

[Anansasem]

Annoying little brat.

[Makulita]

... Ironic.

[Ike]

Hey guys, stop messing up my thread! More discussion of whether it's worse for hapas to date Asians or whites!

[RebelAzn]

Hey guys, stop messing up my thread! More discussion of whether it's worse for hapas to date Asians or whites!

Ike - There is no answer to that. It really depends on the person and their experiences. I can understand someone dating someone because they have similar cultural values, similar way of dealing with in-laws, understanding in-laws and similar way of raising kids etc., but dating someone solely for the purpose of being accepted into the white society is pretty messed up. People who think dating white is the answer to acceptance in the racist USA is probably pretty messed up and insecure with many other things. I used to do that simple test with girls I dated. If I find out the girl is insecure and not proud of who she is, I move on quickly knowing it would be a long process trying to educate that girl. Insecure people in general have many other issues and not just dating.

For hapas, it will all come down to what is important to them. I understand it is super difficult to be a hapa and not some "great setup" like other people make it out to be, but each hapa also needs to realize he/she is who he/she believes to be. In other words, you create your own reality and don't let other people dictate to you what reality you should have. I hope each hapa can learn the balance to accept each of his/her ethnicity without having to choose one of another. That being said, I think hapas also need to realize whites in this country will do whatever they can do control the media and broadcast only from their perspective and not care about plight of Asian Americans.

[Anansasem]

As long as you propagate an ethnocentric Asian American community, you're going to force Hapas to choose one or the other whether intentionally or not. You cannot be 'black' and 'white,' you're simply a 'mixed' 'black.' I suppose, Hapas at least have some choice in a way.

Even so, do you really expect them to be able to have a healthy mindset that incorporates both their heritages while shooting off phrases like, "those white people... why are white people always so... Asian American unity..." Combine this with the way 'whites' will talk from the 'other side.' How would you believe they could maintain a mindset that allows them to incorporate both of their 'racial' heritages, with such divisive statements and outlooks fired from both sides? It's even apparent in the way many here describe them in their posts; "They follow the white crowd when they can... they're more in touch with their Asian roots... they'd rather be white... rather be Asian?" How rare is it to hear of a family with children that accept and incorporate both 'races,' speak both languages, are equally involved with both cultures, and are accepted by both sides of the family? It sounds almost as though they're forced to walk a razors edge until they fall on one side or the other. Ethnocentrism, of any variation, will not allow multiracial or multicultural people or accept them to the same extent.

If you continue with the perception that 'races' are inexorably independent and isolated entities, how can they be both? They're forced to choose a side, no? Probably the one that they are most readily perceived as. Maybe they don't have much of a choice after all?

Makulita, yes it is ironic that someone older is acting with such juvenile dispassion and irreverence. Whatever your age, you're a child.

[Makulita]

As for my view on Hapas and IR, its already been said about five ways to Sunday by now. It depends on how the Hapa identifies, how the Hapa looks and all that other miscellaneous shit that's been chewed to soup about IRs in the first place.

---

Dear, precious Anansasem,

Boohoo, boo-fucking-hoo, I didn't pull out links from news sites explaining the Chai Soua Vang case, and instead summarized it to a cynical, (obviously painful to you) simplified explanation of whatthefuckever could have caused CJF's initial inquiry about why a bumper sticker reading "Save a Deer, Shoot a Hmong" could have possibly sprouted from.

Me personally, I don't fucking care if I'm acting as a child. I'm not going to post around this forum with the pretentious collegiate "I-use-5-point-SAT-words-in-regular-discourse" stick jammed up my ass. Dialectic, the rest of the founders and the other senior members can debate, discuss, rant and rave all they want about issues within the Asian American community with their proper, grammatically correct English, few if any cursewords and calm demeanors because there are some people out there who'll understand them.
I, on the other hand, am a fucking lazy bitch. So if I don't feel like going all the fucking way out of my own way to say something about anything, I'm not going to.

You were the one who chose to get all butthurt and cry over the fact I didn't bother to give a "proper" explanation to CJF. If you want to take it as a callous offense to the troubles of the Hmong community and act as Knight Protector of the Hmong People, you go on with that then.

I know I'm goading you. Go ahead, call one of the mods to split our argument and move it to a different forum. I don't care about how that makes me look like either. Frankly I tired out from gregmanders early, but I'm ready for another round of aimless bashing.

But to keep with at least a nodding acquaintance to the 44s, I'll bring out heritage into this if you want. I'm 22, 5'2", I got Visayan Filipino from my father, Tagalog Filipino and Mexican from my mother and according to her I've also got some Cherokee blood but that fraction doesn't fucking matter because it doesn't show up on me at all since I identify as Filipino first and foremost. The only acknowledgement I have about my 1/4 Mexican blood is my failing Spanish 120 to try and help me talk to my grandmother before she dies alone in her old folks' home apartment.

I got issues with my skin color just for the fact that lighter skin will hide my stretch scars and everything below my breasts is stark white compared to how medium to crispy brown my upperbody is and I don't wanna look like a fucking example of a sepia color spectrum. I used to desperately want to be Japanese because I was one of those early 90s anime nerds, and I disliked being Filipino because at the time I believed we had no culture whatsoever because the Spanish fucked it and Christianized it out of us. Then I disliked myself because I started to wake the fuck up but hated how didn't look definitively Asian, then I realized that just because my people didn't run around in cheongsams or kimonos, and that we didn't come in pastel banana yellow and some of us didn't have eyes that looked like almonds or lines across our cheeks didn't make us any less Asian; that Filipinos do have culture despite the saddeningly efficient ass-reaming White America and Spain gave us. I can't seem to go a day without getting mad at something to do with Anti-Asian racism because knowing shit like this fucks you up and its a long time coming before you ever, ever make peace with shit that huge. Because of all that I usually lash out with self-righteous vigor at ignorant, apologistic fucking pieces of shit like Millerboy and gregmanders...

...And now we're here, in this forum, in this thread with me bitching out at you. <3

[Anansasem]

You're the one that seems upset, Makulita. I'm not going to bash you, and I wasn't 'hurt' by the way you phrased it, only 'irritated.'

I can see you have your own baggage to work through, sorry if I added to it. You have a different way and a different outlook, I can respect that.

[Makulita]

See, that's ironic, I got irritated at your irritation and your consequent trying to snark on me for it.

Bet your ass you're sorry for "adding to my baggage", but goddamn if I feel better about my issues than yours; last I saw you posting you got more of a slew of mixed blood problems than I do so good luck with that.

[RebelAzn]

As long as you propagate an ethnocentric Asian American community, you're going to force Hapas to choose one or the other whether intentionally or not. You cannot be 'black' and 'white,' you're simply a 'mixed' 'black.' I suppose, Hapas at least have some choice in a way.

Even so, do you really expect them to be able to have a healthy mindset that incorporates both their heritages while shooting off phrases like, "those white people... why are white people always so... Asian American unity..." Combine this with the way 'whites' will talk from the 'other side.' How would you believe they could maintain a mindset that allows them to incorporate both of their 'racial' heritages, with such divisive statements and outlooks fired from both sides? It's even apparent in the way many here describe them in their posts; "They follow the white crowd when they can... they're more in touch with their Asian roots... they'd rather be white... rather be Asian?" How rare is it to hear of a family with children that accept and incorporate both 'races,' speak both languages, are equally involved with both cultures, and are accepted by both sides of the family? It sounds almost as though they're forced to walk a razors edge until they fall on one side or the other. Ethnocentrism, of any variation, will not allow multiracial or multicultural people or accept them to the same extent.

If you continue with the perception that 'races' are inexorably independent and isolated entities, how can they be both? They're forced to choose a side, no? Probably the one that they are most readily perceived as. Maybe they don't have much of a choice after all?

Makulita, yes it is ironic that someone older is acting with such juvenile dispassion and irreverence. Whatever your age, you're a child.

I think you do make a good point. I think it would be difficult with the current situation. Many Asian Americans who know what's going on right now might have a negative view of interracial relationships due to the fact all the negative perceptions with it. Unfortunately, love is not color blind and white men in this country have created a system where they are on the pedestal while suppressing minorities with negative stereotypes left and right. Until that is fixed, people who see the bigger picture will have have some kind of negative connotations towards certain interracial pairings like WM/AF.

I think when there are more hapas around, perhaps they will form their own identity and new racial group all on their own.

[Makulita]

The last part I believe will happen when America closes its borders to everyone and the choices for Hapas to opt out grow fewer and fewer until there are only other hapas to hook up with. But as long as people from all over are still immigrating to this country, there's still gonna be some "pure"-blooded white/non-Asian boys'n girls and "pure"-blooded Asian boys'n girls for Hapas to choose between, and to also perpetuate hapa children.

[nekohead]

Sorry Anansasem
:(

[little mixed girl]

mixed people can date whoever the hell they want...same with non-mixed people.

but, i must say that mixed doesn't automatically mean that a person is half white...

second, if a person is half white, why should it matter if they want to date a white person? it's not "selling out" by any stretch.

my opinion is that we can't make a whole encompassing list of all racial groups and rank who it's acceptable to date, and in what conditions forbidden combos are allowed.

[Ike]

As long as you propagate an ethnocentric Asian American community, you're going to force Hapas to choose one or the other whether intentionally or not.

It's not just the Asian Americans. In this country, in this time, you really do have to choose sides.

[CJF]

It's not just the Asian Americans. In this country, in this time, you really do have to choose sides.
So right.

It reminds me of Obama. Obama was raised in whiter neighborhoods his whole life by his white mother. Yet he is forced to identify himself as a black man.

How many times does he mention he's mixed? Non, because the moronic American majority doesn't understand mixed people. Mixed relationships, they do understand...as long as the man is white. But mixed people or white women with a minority guy? No.

As Obama said, "when I try to hail a cab in New York City or get service at a hotel, that's when I know I'm a black man"

[CJF]

mixed people can date whoever the hell they want...same with non-mixed people.

but, i must say that mixed doesn't automatically mean that a person is half white...

second, if a person is half white, why should it matter if they want to date a white person? it's not "selling out" by any stretch.

my opinion is that we can't make a whole encompassing list of all racial groups and rank who it's acceptable to date, and in what conditions forbidden combos are allowed.
Well, it kinda is selling out. That person who is half white is still perceived as a minority in this one drop rule nation.

Many hapas who date white (not all) admit that it comes from an insecurity of their life for being labeled Asian...so that they don't want their kids to suffer from this.

Of course many hapas live in all white neighborhoods and have no choice. But you should see the hostility hapa girls have towards Asian men to prove my hypothesis. One bad experience with an Asian allows them to label the entire race, but whites get a free pass. That is one of hte reasons why I quit one of the boards, because of their eugenic attitudes of wanting to rid Asian out of their blood, and because of their white supremacist BS.

[RebelAzn]

It's not just the Asian Americans. In this country, in this time, you really do have to choose sides.

Unfortunately that is true in this country. We are all labeled whether we like it or not. I know it will be tough for hapas but you will be Asian even if you look slightly Asian. White people never gave people who are half black/half white a free pass, so they will bot for any other mixes with white either.

[Harangue]

Asians are too uptight about racial purity. Look at Blacks: they accept everybody from Tiger Woods to Mariah Carey as their own. Look at Jews: they accept anybody with matrilineal Jewish heritage as one of their own, which leads to people like Scarlett Johansson identifying herself as Jewish (nobody even knows what a "real" Jew looks like anymore). Look at Latinos: they accept everybody from Salma Hayek to Guillermo del Toro to Eva Longoria.

But Asians? Not likely. I've heard some Asians proclaim that Kristin Kreuk looks pure White. Or Daniel Henney looks mostly White. Or Maggie Q. Some Asians are just so entrenched in their own stereotyped images of themselves that anything that seems to differ slightly from the West-bestowed image of the Asian is regarded as foreign and/or White.

[Ike]

From what I've seen: Asian-Americans accept (white) hapas more than hapas accept their Asian-ness.

[CJF]

hmm since my dating sample is low, in terms of friendships, I notice that my likelyhood of choosing a friend is based more on economic and educational level than racial.

My friend range from hispanic to asian to black. Only a few whites.

[CJF]

From what I've seen: Asian-Americans accept (white) hapas more than hapas accept their Asian-ness.

sometimes it's weird being around some Asians. SOME is the key word, because they always ask the same quiestion

The first part is understandable "what is your race"

The second part though "Whose Asian?"

i sometimes get the feeling that when I say my mom, they think lower of me...and that I'm some colonial product:( :( :(

[RebelAzn]

sometimes it's weird being around some Asians. SOME is the key word, because they always ask the same quiestion

The first part is understandable "what is your race"

The second part though "Whose Asian?"

i sometimes get the feeling that when I say my mom, they think lower of me...and that I'm some colonial product:( :( :(

I think you are right on that part. The problem is most Asian Americans perceive children of WM/AF to be pretty much white since they think most of these AFs that marry white men are sellouts. It is unfair and it is totally ridiculous to judge hapa children. I personally have met a few hapas where they told me their Asian mothers did not teach them a thing about Asian culture even though their mothers barely speak English. The problem is with all these war brides and mail order brides etc., many Asians don't exactly have such favorable view of these relationships. It is also common knowledge white men hook up with prostitutes and gold diggers in Asia. Many of these marriages are marriage of convenience. Again, these are general perceptions.

Asian men with white women are different in that most Asian men in these relationships in America are usually Americanized Asian men. Their relationships with white women are usually against all stereotypes from society etc. If these couples did not care about each other truly, I doubt their relationships would last.

I think it is great hapas learn their Asian root.

[Ike]

Yet another white privilege: No one cares why your parents are together, and no one judges you by their relationship.

[xian]

Yeah, we all got that "How did THEY meet?!??" bullshit. But I kind of like it, it helps me know who to avoid without having to talk to them much.

[little mixed girl]

It's not just the Asian Americans. In this country, in this time, you really do have to choose sides.

i disagree with this, and the sentiments that followed your post that basically say, "well, people are labeled, so, get over it".

most people don't go through life thinking that there are "sides".

and i think it's pitiful to say that because someone judges you by your appearance you should just go with it.

it's especially irritating when it comes from minorities who hate being judged on their physical appearance, dress or way of talking. but those same minorities feel that it's fine to tell mixed people that "if you look X, then you're X".

=/

[CJF]

i disagree with this, and the sentiments that followed your post that basically say, "well, people are labeled, so, get over it".

most people don't go through life thinking that there are "sides".

and i think it's pitiful to say that because someone judges you by your appearance you should just go with it.

it's especially irritating when it comes from minorities who hate being judged on their physical appearance, dress or way of talking. but those same minorities feel that it's fine to tell mixed people that "if you look X, then you're X".

=/

Sure, we can learn about our white side all we want...but in the end, us hapas are still "Ch1nks" in the US. We are still belittled as men. The women are still fetishized by white men if not more than ful Asian girls.

If we look like X, it doesn't mean we only appreciate x. It means that we should sympathize more with X's dilemma's.

If we look X, we are not X, but we are treated as X. That's the huge problem.

[Ike]

most people don't go through life thinking that there are "sides".

I beg to differ. I think Americans are taught a very us vs them mentality. Black vs white. Good vs evil. Red vs Blue. Alliance vs Horde. You're either with us or with the terrorists.

So when it comes down to race, there is "my race" and "other races that are not mine". And then people's perceptions of you change how they think of you and treat you.

Just think of the difference between how society views someone who is half-Asian half-Black, and someone who is half-Asian half-White.

[Vahz]

Hence the term "ethnic claiming."

[CJF]

I beg to differ. I think Americans are taught a very us vs them mentality. Black vs white. Good vs evil. Red vs Blue. Alliance vs Horde. You're either with us or with the terrorists.

So when it comes down to race, there is "my race" and "other races that are not mine". And then people's perceptions of you change how they think of you and treat you.

Just think of the difference between how society views someone who is half-Asian half-Black, and someone who is half-Asian half-White.

It's the one drop rule. If you have one drop of minority blood, you are that minority.

Look at Obama. He was raised by his white mom. Equally white and black. Yet he is never seen as equally that. He is seen as black. He has NEVER been seen as white.

In the words of him "When I try to hail a taxi cab, i KNOW I'm a black man"

[little mixed girl]

Sure, we can learn about our white side all we want...but in the end, us hapas are still "Ch1nks" in the US. We are still belittled as men. The women are still fetishized by white men if not more than ful Asian girls.

If we look like X, it doesn't mean we only appreciate x. It means that we should sympathize more with X's dilemma's.

If we look X, we are not X, but we are treated as X. That's the huge problem.
i'm not talking about "learning about your white side".

i'm talking about people being comfortable with what they are, and not trying to go to one side or the other because people tell them that they have to "choose one".

because the flip-side of what you posted, is that those that look (or are perceived to be) more white looking should identify as white and just go along with it because that's what people think they are.

or that a person that's minority/minority mixed should just go with one side over the other because people say that they have to choose one.

I beg to differ. I think Americans are taught a very us vs them mentality. Black vs white. Good vs evil. Red vs Blue. Alliance vs Horde. You're either with us or with the terrorists.

So when it comes down to race, there is "my race" and "other races that are not mine". And then people's perceptions of you change how they think of you and treat you.

Just think of the difference between how society views someone who is half-Asian half-Black, and someone who is half-Asian half-White.
i agree that people are very much stuck in a black/white mentality, but why should you contribute to it?

the way to change the black/white, us vs. them, etc way of thinking is to stop thinking that way yourself. and then pass that way of thought onto others through your actions.

my position is not that mixed people who are half-white shouldn't care about their minority side.
it's that mixed people in general should be able to, and have the right to, be comfortable with themselves as mixed people without being challenged.

a group can't push away mixed people and expect them to count themselves exclusively as a member of that group.

tiger woods has said many times that he is mixed. and his first big interview with oprah, he said just that. and after he said that, blacks got mad at him because he didn't automatically claim himself as black.

but the reverse of that is that asian-americans didn't seem eager to claim him as one of theirs.

the "pick one" seems to be a quick solution. so, do we only judge by looks, or what?

[RebelAzn]

tiger woods has said many times that he is mixed. and his first big interview with oprah, he said just that. and after he said that, blacks got mad at him because he didn't automatically claim himself as black.

but the reverse of that is that asian-americans didn't seem eager to claim him as one of theirs.

Well I think Tiger's dad was like 1/4 American Indian or something. If you count American Indian as part of the Asian race, then Tiger is more Asian than black. You are right though, I did not see many Asian Americans going out to claim him as one of their own. He did get great receptions in Thailand though.

the "pick one" seems to be a quick solution. so, do we only judge by looks, or what?

That pretty much boils down to it. Americans aren't exactly bright. Check out the YOUTUBE video below:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZaN6Rx8X6_I

http://youtube.com/watch?v=04f2UJOPJfQ

[Harangue]

tiger woods has said many times that he is mixed. and his first big interview with oprah, he said just that. and after he said that, blacks got mad at him because he didn't automatically claim himself as black.

but the reverse of that is that asian-americans didn't seem eager to claim him as one of theirs.

Tiger Woods has done a commendable job to not succumbing to the culture of the One-Drop Rule. It would've been very easy for him to just say he's Black because he mostly looks Black (even though he has more Asian ancestry).

[tkguy]

I consider hapa to be its own ethnic group. It's a sub group of asians. All this talk about getting rid of the ethnic groups does not fit into the way world have been operating since the beginning of time. I believe many of the ethnic groups we know today are actually a mixture of other groups. No, that does not mean we should get rid of the notion of ethnic grouping.

When hapa dates non-hapas that are part of their ethnic makeup, I think this is still probably an ir. Hapas are not in irs when they date other hapas, with the same ethnic makeup. IMO the best possible mate for a hapa person is another hapa. Saddly, I find that this happens very rarely.

[kimtae]

Blacks accept Tiger as Black? Since when?
Tiger ain't Black (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2zk-I9QJg9w)

[DONKEY]

how about dating yrself. this can be cool.
no need to get dressed up. take yrself out and buy yrself dinner. get a 40 drink it with yrself. then whatever happens at the end of the date is nobody's business. and yrself wont care if you cant remember your name in the morning.

[Harangue]

Blacks accept Tiger as Black? Since when?

Early in his stardom, Tiger Woods explicitly identified himself as a mixed person (on Oprah), which caused a small controversy in the Black community. Maybe ever since then, the Black community has learned to share him with the world.

[tkguy]

how about dating yrself. this can be cool.
no need to get dressed up. take yrself out and buy yrself dinner. get a 40 drink it with yrself. then whatever happens at the end of the date is nobody's business. and yrself wont care if you cant remember your name in the morning.

If you are being sarcastic then I think your post reminds me of the great white Televangelist's pearl of wisdom.

Uh, since when does my girlfriend "share my beliefs and values" simply because she's dating me?

If anything, wouldn't she be less likely to than the average person? Dating someone who agrees with you about everything would be incredibly boring.

[dszykulski]

It's the one drop rule. If you have one drop of minority blood, you are that minority.

Look at Obama. He was raised by his white mom. Equally white and black. Yet he is never seen as equally that. He is seen as black. He has NEVER been seen as white.

In the words of him "When I try to hail a taxi cab, i KNOW I'm a black man"

If you look more one race than the other that`s how the average person will see you. My African heritage is clearly more visible than my European side. When I lived in China, the average Chinese guy classified me as just another black monkey too.

[SamuraiJack]

If you look more one race than the other that`s how the average person will see you. My African heritage is clearly more visible than my European side. When I lived in China, the average Chinese guy classified me as just another black monkey too.

Blame the western media for instilling that hierarchy into the minds of Asian people, although it's gotten better w/ many Asians idolizing black athletes these days. On the other hand, black people are pretty damn racist to Asians in America because of all the negative depictions of Asians in the media. Of course, they make an exception when they want to have sex with Asian women.

I agree with you though, it's true that whatever you look more like, you'll be treated as such. That's why Tiger is generally treated and viewed as black by most of the population. Keanu Reeves is white. etc...

[VeryAngry]

Is it really a good idea for Chinese people anywhere to admire black people because of athletes or Fifty Cent? How about instead of importing culture, actually making the effort to work with, getting to know people and building lives together?

This isn't going to be easy but the alternative is only cosmetically better. Ergo all those stories you hear about black men being typecast into the role of hypersexual beasts good for ravaging white pussy, but being discriminated socially and in the job market.

[thmilin]

i agree, pretty much, with little mixed girl on this.

CJF (and all those lamenting the supposed mental state of asian/white hapas): go to hawaii. do it NOW. mingle among the variations of hapas and embrace the many mixes. realize there are plenty of asian/white hapa girls who are ASHAMED of their whiteness and prefer to be seen as asian and who are not afraid to run around in the sun and get tan. shocking, i know.

i personally feel this child should embrace both her asian and her white culture. this is because the child is both white and asian. thus, she should not negate one half of herself to please this forum, the Asian American community, white folks, or the world at large.

if she is visibly asian, she should not be afraid or ashamed to admit to her whiteness. if she is visibly white, she should not be afraid or ashamed to admit to her asianness.

this pleases no one, but the child herself, and is therefore the best result.

in the long run, accepting ALL your culture/ethnic parts and teaching your children to do the same will result in the ideal that many of us know is lacking - the breaking down of white privilege, the empowerment of present minorities in the states, and more respect and acceptance across racial lines.

you may not want that, but i do. if you don't want to melt in the melting pot with the rest of the food and spices, maybe you should reconsider being in the pot in the first place. (don't get me wrong, being attracted to only or mostly your own ethnic group because of your cultural upbringing is fine. insisting all of your ethnic group only date within its own ethnic group is just another form of racism, to me.)

--

as for the ubiquitous "white variation only" discussion of the interracial asian mix:

I'm going to post something more detailed in a thread all it's own, but yes: i agree with comments in this thread - asian/white mixes aren't the ONLY ONES!

--

but um, yeah, also, CJF, i'm concerned you haven't been around a lot of hapas, or enough hapas, to have a positive sense of hapa identity. i worry that you might be ascribing the prevalent "asian females hate their race" issue to hapas, which could be in play but may not be entirely. because if you're talking a full asian female hates herself, that's one thing, she's learned it in a certain climate. a white hapa girl may or may not be raised as her ethnic parent's ethnicity, and note that not ALL white hapa girls come from asian moms/white dads, but could come from asian dads/white moms.

so, a white hapa girl could LOVE her asian self, or be as loving of asian men as white, get my drift? it depends on her asian parent, what that asian parent taught her, and what her WHITE parent taught her. what if her mom WAS asian, and self hating, but her father loved his wife's culture and made it clear that his daughter should love, respect, and preserve it (and he practiced the same)? what theN?


---

pity: don't pity hapas, especially if you are one. this is bad juju.

we have been dealt complicated baggage, but everyone gets it, we just have 2x the baggage. it just makes us far more understanding of things one specific ethnicity can't fathom. you can be aware of some struggles, for example, of a white hapa girl, but because of your own position and biases you may completely lose sight of others struggles, or discount them altogether.

do not assume "we can't find love among our own kind." we can find love with both our ethnicities and with new ethnicities and with hapa mixes of other kinds or mixes of the same kind. whatever we want, we find. our simple existince drives us to do it.

i'm not saying there aren't identity-challenged hapas out there. we all start out that way. yes, some end up "choosing a side."

but no, you do NOT have to choose a side. the goal is in fact, NOT to choose a side. to be proud and live a full life as BOTH ethnicities, regardless of whether your ethnic groups accept you or not. i don't care if you do accept me, it's what i am, so it's what i am. you have no right to tell me what i am or am not, regardless of what I look like to you. no one declared you (this is general) racial evaluator for our race, thus, i've got a gazillion people's ideas of what my "asianness" is to contend with - or just mine. guess who's idea of it i'm going to choose?

i believe with hapas there is an ATTRACTION to both (or all) ethnicities you are made of, or at least a WILLINGNESS to be attracted or consider relationships with both (or all) ethnicities. and on top of that, i think there's a strong lean to being attracted to OTHER mixes, ie, hapa + any mix, whether it's asian or not. you may not know of any but they're out there. again, i bring up hawaii.

just as with any other group, hapas feel other hapas understand them, reflect their values in some way, share their concerns and issues. there are books out there on this. we are growing as a national/world identity, and we're going to get louder.

--


ike, CJF, Rebel - ok, i may need to go get some numbers, i don't even know if they're out there, but at this point i frankly don't believe there is THAT huge of a gap between white/asian and black/asian mixes any more.

yes, there's a gap, but i feel it's minor. i've encountered enough mixes and i'm one myself and my full-blooded black brother just had a baby with his a filipina-american wife making two blackapinas now in the family including me so, this is growing people! things are changing!

yes i've seen more of the former, HOWEVER the number has been increasing heavily over the years and the issue is just where the kids are. maybe where you live isn't racially integrated and everyone's in their own pockets. maybe people don't go around clearly saying their ethnicity to you. maybe you only hang out with 100% asians and asian/white mixes and therefore are blissfully unaware of the other mixes out there. do you hang out with a lot of latinos? do you hang out with a lotta black folks? it's about who you're around, where you live, and where you've travelled.

a lot of the couples/kids are military, too. they come and go and move around and you just may not be crossing paths.

plus, if you look at a black kid in passing how is your butt going to know they're black and asian unless they TELL you?

does tiger woods look asian to you? no!

and yes, tiger woods is a shining example of refusing to accept the ethnic rules of society. you may be snark at him that he went and married a white girl, but, ironically, i am not, and i'm half black. i've got a first cousin (black) who married a german woman. they had two awesome kids. i'm not going to care one way or the other whether those kids marry white, asian, black, or latino. doesn't matter.

back to tiger - he has had to play his cards very carefully, and obama is doing the same right now. he takes a risk, but only a small one. he let's his skin speak for itself, and declares all his ethnicities, and refuses to omit asian from the list, even in the face of oprah.

this is because his butt is a self loving, proud hapa, the way he should be.

obama wants the presidency, he can't claim the asian card, he has to claim the disrespected black pity card cuz otherwise white america won't vote for him, and white america is the majority. he has to use them at their own game - make them feel superior to him so they vote for his ass! smart move.

one day, a long day away, it'll be okay to claim multiple ethnicities in the race for presidency. (no pun intended)

(more to come ...)

[thmilin]

back to the original question of this thread - ike, i've been reading some of your posts, and they all generally make sense to me and don't offend me and i'm cool with you and what you have to say.

but i raise little mixed girl's point that the question you present here is way bad juju.

when i read this thread i literally had no idea what you were talking about.i was seriously like, oh my god, is he asking people to break down the math of an interracial mix? like, who DOES THAT? it was like, amazing to me. shocking.

and then it turned sad and bad. it's because - and maybe i'm wrong - you're 100% asian asking people on the board, who seem to be mostly 100% asian, how THEY feel about this final math! you are asking them - non hapas - to DEFINE what hapas and hapa IR COUNT AS! holy schmoly.

i don't even think you should be asking the "what's it count as" question, let alone the "what do hapa mixes count as" question, by the way.

would you like me to list out ways to determine how American you are and what you "count as"? or how Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc. you are, or would be, should you intermarry, or your children intermarry?

i know you're not being malicious, you just wanted to know, but come on. if you are reaching for a world that praises and embraces asian americans then please, praise and embrace asian americans of all kinds, including hapas, and those they choose to love (for nonfetish/racist reasons). have some respect. i get who the board audience is but it DOES invite all asian americans and it CAN be found with a google search by innocent hapas.

don't break us down like this. that undermines the goal. (my goal, anyway, if it isn't yours, so nyah!)

this is so why on every app or form i've ever had to check my identity box in i check multiple boxes and write nasty comments in. i recognize not everyone's on board, but dang.

if this forum is truly not about "ensuring asians stick 100% to each other whether they're activists or not" and is truly, as it purports, totally down with intermixing, then a post like this totally undermines.

It also totally undermines the psychocultural development of hapas because you are literally, in writing, asking the majority asian group on here to break their racial math down for a subminority group.

unless you're a scientist testing DNA and genes for the breakdown of what happens between a hapa guy and a full asian, these questions should not be asked. it is dependent on the personal cultural definiton the hapa creates for themselves, and the cultural definition of the person they partner with. that is just not something i think this forum can even hope to respond to unless they were all in hapa relationships, or hapas themselves.

i recognize you all answered cuz the majority of you AREN'T hapa and you were asked to evaluate hapa mixes to see how these would break down. but honestly how many of you have had enough interaction with all variations of hapas to get a sense of the right answers here?

anyway. i had to break this out cuz i was so ... put off. again, i'm not angry. i think ... disappointed is the better word.

so ... please, for my people (ha) i ask you to have more sensitivity and awareness when you discuss IR relationships and identity.

thanks.