Asian Father & Son's Big Mistake

[lycheng]

I’m a recreational scuba diver so I sometimes read an internet forum called ScubaBoard (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums.php). It’s a pretty good site – lots of tips on everything scuba.
While checking out the site today, I found a thread called “If you’re going to poach, why tell anyone” (http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=196642).

The thread is about this picture: http://yourscene.latimes.com/mycapture/photos/Image.aspx?ImageID=81570&EventID=139195&CategoryID=18062&CollectionID=0&Sort=

If you open the link, you’ll see an Asian father and his son holding a big lobster with the caption:
Off the the malibu pier, we caught a 10lbs/20inch lobster...with a fishing pole. My dad said "today was perfect". The picture was submitted to the latime.com on June 17, 2007 for their “My Father’s Day Present” feature. It appears the father and son went fishing on Father's day and they ended up accidentally catching a huge lobster.

So what you ask? Well it turns out lobster season in California is over making it illegal to catch lobsters on Father's day. Clearly the father and son team didn’t know this and kept the lobster, Being proud of their accidental catch off the pier, they decided to send this picture to latimes.com.

Catching the lobster was a mistake, but announcing their catch on the internet was a bigger mistake because someone on ScubaBoard decided to take their anti-poaching anger out on these poor guys.

Now I’m not condoning people fishing or hunting out of season, but man, those guys just made a simple mistake. Yeah ignorance of the law is no excuse, but do they deserve people calling them “idiots” or “morons”? Is the label poaching even appropriate here? Real lobster poachers don't catch lobsters off a pier with a fishing line.

Of course there’s the fact that they’re Asian, which makes me think there are racial undertones.

Any comments?

BTW: Posting this on the Identity section. Mods: Feel free to move it.

[theme]

I went through the first page and half of the second page, but nothing seems to indicate racism there. Whether they deserve to be called idiots and morons, I dunno, that's first amendments territory.

[lycheng]

Well, I didn't say people were being overtly racist. I said possible racial overtones.

How about when RikRaeder in post #9 basically said those guys probably weren't "sneaking around hunting for lobster", Leejnd, who obviously read RikRaeder's profile location replied:
By the way, I wouldn't expect you to know when it's lobster season in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA...given that you seem to live in...JAPAN??

Now bringing up Japan isn't racist of course, but Leejnd's attitude seems awfully xenophobic.

[nskripchun]

Yeah, the comments were bit harsh... but it's hard to make a strict judgment that calling them "idiots" is purely out of racial prejudice... but I wouldn't rule it completely out either, though.

As a kid, when I went out sea fishing with one of my "uncles" (a college fisheries science professor, so he definitely wasn't a nub), he had more than a few stories of racist encounters with other people who were out fishing while he was just minding his own business - people making comments about "all gooks are poachers" or that "chinks will eat anything they catch raw".

[theme]

I read that comment and what was wrong with it? That sounds like something I or anyone else would say in a situation like this. I think you're letting the ethnicity of the father and son cloud your judgement somewhat.

BTW-Can you be certain that many of those posters aren't Asians or non-Whites? They could be any body. Personally, I don't think the comments were that bad but maybe that's because I'm abrasive myself. But I do know that from going to Sherdog a lot that sometimes things are misconstrued as racism.

[lycheng]

I read that comment and what was wrong with it? That sounds like something I or anyone else would say in a situation like this. I think you're letting the ethnicity of the father and son cloud your judgement somewhat.

Hmmm.... not sure if it clouded my judgment. In fact, I said I wasn't condoning the act in question. I would, however, reserve harsh criticism because by all appearances, this was an honest mistake.

They were ignorant of the law. But I certainly wouldn't classify them as poachers.

The "you're in Japan" comment is xenophobic because the poster used it to dismiss views that didn't agree with her. From reading later posts, it turns out the person "in Japan" is originally from California, so they had experience with California fishing laws.

BTW-Can you be certain that many of those posters aren't Asians or non-Whites? They could be any body. Personally, I don't think the comments were that bad but maybe that's because I'm abrasive myself. But I do know that from going to Sherdog a lot that sometimes things are misconstrued as racism.

Good point... I don't know the racial makeup of the posters. But even fellow Asians can have a prejudice against other Asians. In any event, I think the internet environment tends to invite harsh criticism, racially motivated or not.

[theme]

Hmmm.... not sure if it clouded my judgment. In fact, I said I wasn't condoning the act in question. I would, however, reserve harsh criticism because by all appearances, this was an honest mistake.

What I meant was that the fact that the 'poachers' are Asian might have elicited more sympathy than would normally be expected if they weren't Asian. Not that you were condoning their actions or anything.


They were ignorant of the law. But I certainly wouldn't classify them as poachers.

Pretty much subjective boss. Their act by legal definition is poaching. I don't really know how mens rea and actus rea applies to this specific situation but like you said "ignorance of the law is no excuse".


The "you're in Japan" comment is xenophobic because the poster used it to dismiss views that didn't agree with her. From reading later posts, it turns out the person "in Japan" is originally from California, so they had experience with California fishing laws.


I don't understand how that comment is xenophobic. This Leejnd person seems like a real hard-ass type of personality, but she's just getting the person 'from Japan' to defer to someone who actually lives in the State of California. It's the type of comment that would get a chuckle from quite a few people IMO. No harm done.

[minbo]

I stopped reading Scubaboard a few years ago, but when I was reading it, that kind of reaction to poaching is not unusual. If you go to the tech diving section and start posting stroke stories, you will get even more abusive insults heaped upon whatever hapless stroke you pointed out.

You should go to The Deco Stop, I think that it's a better board, though it is much more focused upon tech diving.

Fishing/hunting out of season, irregardless of if you are willful or knowledgeable about hunting/fishing laws is still poaching. That said, if I accidentally caught a 20 lb lobster while fishing for something else, if I didn't know about the lobster season (and I don't) I'll be damned if I throw it back. That sucker is lunch.

[awong]

Fishing/hunting out of season, irregardless of if you are willful or knowledgeable about hunting/fishing laws is still poaching. That said, if I accidentally caught a 20 lb lobster while fishing for something else, if I didn't know about the lobster season (and I don't) I'll be damned if I throw it back. That sucker is lunch.

just dont show off about it and tell everyone :P

[KHANartist]

I’m a recreational scuba diver so I sometimes read an Catching the lobster was a mistake, but announcing their catch on the internet was a bigger mistake because someone on ScubaBoard decided to take their anti-poaching anger out on these poor guys.

Now I’m not condoning people fishing or hunting out of season, but man, those guys just made a simple mistake. Yeah ignorance of the law is no excuse, but do they deserve people calling them “idiots” or “morons”? Is the label poaching even appropriate here? Real lobster poachers don't catch lobsters off a pier with a fishing line.

Of course there’s the fact that they’re Asian, which makes me think there are racial undertones.

Any comments?

BTW: Posting this on the Identity section. Mods: Feel free to move it.

Yes, the people who were calling them thick were a pack of pedantic, anal do-gooders with far too much time on their hands. However, suggesting this could be racial is a bit too paranoid.

[DONKEY]

i dunno about up there but down in the Gulf region there is definitely this kind of hostility towards Asians in fishing. there is a difference between the accidental poacher who just takes the wrong size or number of fish from the lake and the criminal poachers who knowingly break the law and throw out their nets to score a profit. yes both types are illegal but its the latter who are destructive.
ive never had any bad experiences with game wardens (SO FAR) but then i almost never meet them because im usually out of the way and not fishing with a big group of people so i dont attract attention. i have heard lots of racist comments from other dumbasses who were fishing and i think its those people who are the problem and not really the law enforcement.