Asian family with a "dark" child

[redbutton]

Up until I was ten years old [maybe a few years less then that] I didnt know that I wasnt of asian decent... I grew up around people from different countries but the one family I spent the most time with was a Chinese family. They took care of me like I was one of their own children/siblings, spent more time with me then my own family and around the age of ten I noticed something was odd.

These people looked nothing like me.

Suddenly these feelings changed. I stopped calling them my brothers and sisters and mom. I started noticing small things such as people staring at us as if we were crazed [even the father of the house or relatives who would vist] when we walked together or when I recieved a kiss from their mom.

I practically lived with this family but I think as I grew the looks were more obvious and my ethnicity was starting to show. I never noticed or doubted my "race", I thought I was Chinese or atleast half[and they never told me differently].

When I hit my pre-teen years I stayed with my own family and still felt a bit confused about what I was. I wasnt the "average" looking black person. Light-skinned, light brown wavy/straight hair, slanted eyes...I was commonly mistaken for a "mixed" kid [white and black or black and asian].

The confusion started from the fact that I didnt look like other people of my race, and to this day i'm still trying to figure out what "race" I am [recently found out i'm not "black"].

- - - - -

So, [1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?
[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?
[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?







[sorry for the typos, grammar crap, and the fact that this was written in a hurry. just so you know, im doing a little project with a few friends thats dealing with race and identity...so answering this would be greatly appreciated]

[Scowl]

So,
[1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?
[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?
[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?

Is that your story, or were you just quoting someone else?

1) Yes, although if you're feeling like a race different from what you're supposed to be, it might not be healthy.
2) I think the entire world has trouble accepting people who don't look or fit in a certain group.
3) No fucking clue.

By the way, welcome to the boards.

[atlasien]

For number 3, that's an issue that pops up in both multiracial identity and transracial adoption... as far as I know, the key is to be very realistic and honest about race from as early an age as possible. You explain that race is kind of arbitrary, and you can't really control what race you are born into or viewed as by other people. Race is an insanely difficult concept for adults to grasp, much less kids, so I think very few parents can really do it well.

[redbutton]

Is that your story, or were you just quoting someone else?

1) Yes, although if you're feeling like a race different from what you're supposed to be, it might not be healthy.
2) I think the entire world has trouble accepting people who don't look or fit in a certain group.
3) No fucking clue.

By the way, welcome to the boards.
First off, yeah thats about me. I thought maybe a story or whatever might clear a question or two up. heh.


I know for me, when I was kid, I never felt "black"...mostly becuase they [my fmaily or friends] fit the sterotype. Not only did I not fit the sterotype but I didnt [and still dont] look "black". I grew up being told I wasnt good enough to be "black" [although who knew that years later i'd find out I wasnt?]. Now when I was little I didnt go around with the asian family trying to speak Chinese or dressing up in traditional clothing but I def. thought I was related to them.

For number two, my little "shocker" was when I realized people would ignore me and say rude comments to or about the family. The father wouldnt speak to me half the time. My question kinda springs from the one thing I heard from someone in my group. She said "They still dont take 'mixed' kids that well.....atleast darker ones" from there she named some story of a football player or something who was half asian and black, wether or not she got this froma reliable source is questionable...but fromthen we decided to start a "project" about differences in race/race relations/ identity.



Oh and thanks for the welcome.

[Anansasem]

I know the feeling well, my friend.

Tell me, are there times, for you, when you want to throw off all concepts of 'race?' Do you ever feel resentment for the times when it feels like 'race' is impressed on you whether you want it to be or not?

When your 'race' becomes such an issue with people that they ask you to explain yourself, what do you tell them? Will you try to give them an answer they would expect simply to diffuse the issue? Will you give a long explanation into your history, in the hope that somehow they will understand you? Or will you just brush it off?

By the way, do you know your 'race?' Do you know if you are Homogeneous (one 'race') or Heterogeneous ('mixed')?

I truly hate those terms when they are applied to people.

[Tyger Durden]

....im doing a little project with a few friends thats dealing with race and identity...so answering this would be greatly appreciated]

Soooo, you made up that "I'm-so-confused-who-am-I?" story just to get a response for your little project? LOL!

[Anansasem]

Tyger Durden, just shut it. You're an idiot.

Seeing your insensitivity makes me truly wish I could 'talk' to you face to face.

[Tyger Durden]

Tyger Durden, just shut it. You're an idiot.

Seeing your insensitivity makes me truly wish I could 'talk' to you face-to-face.

you're some sorta bully or something? Is his story even real or...is it your creation?

[Anansasem]

Yeah sure, that's it. Now shut up and leave.

[Tyger Durden]

Wow! Scared of you.

[Anansasem]

Outstanding.

I'm done with you, here. I don't want this guy's thread sent to the Shadow Galleries.

[Tyger Durden]

[1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?
[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?
[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?




[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto)
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto)

[Ike]

Have you considered the possibility that it's less about race than that you felt more of a kinship with people who were not your biological family?

I don't think people can feel like a certain race, because that would be implying that all people of a certain race naturally feel a certain way that is distinct from people of all other races.

I think it's important to separate your familial relationship with this Chinese family from their race.

[redbutton]

Okay i'm gonna try to answer a few things in one post.


First off, did I make up that story? No. I'm not trying to whine about my past or anything, but the story had something to do with the questions I was asked. This project i'm talking about [that me and my frineds are doing] are gonna describe the following: Race relations. Identity. Marriage Rates. Why some races are treated differently. Denial of your own "race". Junk like that.

LIke in the 50's or so there was this doll test. I cant think of the name exactly, but I know it was done again by a young black girl and made into a doc. Kinda proved the whole "america thinks white is right" theory.


And okay, with the Tyger Durden guy, well i'm not too sure how to reply to that "tragic mullato" reply.

As for everyone else, thanks for the reply.


Oh and Ike, I have seperated the two [my family and Chinese family] now. Myabe it had something to do with how young I was and that I didnt seem to fit in with my own "family"/"race". I talk to them whenever I can, only difference is I dont go around calling their mom "mom" anymore or feeling like family [we're still close, though].

[redbutton]

I know the feeling well, my friend.

Tell me, are there times, for you, when you want to throw off all concepts of 'race?' Do you ever feel resentment for the times when it feels like 'race' is impressed on you whether you want it to be or not?

When your 'race' becomes such an issue with people that they ask you to explain yourself, what do you tell them? Will you try to give them an answer they would expect simply to diffuse the issue? Will you give a long explanation into your history, in the hope that somehow they will understand you? Or will you just brush it off?

By the way, do you know your 'race?' Do you know if you are Homogeneous (one 'race') or Heterogeneous ('mixed')?

I truly hate those terms when they are applied to people.


Do you want me to actually answer all these questions or leave them seeming rhetorical?

I think everyone,well most people are "hetrogeneous". I usually just stick to syaing that i'm Black [but I know that isnt all I am, its just easier to answer with when you already knew that you were]....I still havent figure all of this crap out, I kinda stopped caring after awhile anyway.

And "race" was never an issue [when it came to saying what race you were] until I went in areas where there were big groups of minorites, atleast for me. Whenever I had to deal with people asking about the race I said the same thing everytime "Black" and would walk away [becuase usually something stupid followed]. I was lucky to be open to all cultures and races as a kid but not everyone saw everythign the same way.

But dont let me get all "woe is me" on you, besides, growing up in an area where there wasnt just one minoirty as the majority in that one place worked in my advantage in the end.




[sorry for typos, i've turned off my brain for today]

[kimtae]

Redbutton, this is the last place to be disingenuous. If you're working on a project then say so, but don't come here under false pretenses even if the basic story you have is true. People here don't put up with foolishness of that sort. This is overall a very intelligent group and though there are many varying viewpoints most people would reach out to you if you are genuine, but they'll very quickly turn on you if they feel they're being had. Get your story straight from the start next time.

[Yayagirl]

[
[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?


Without a doubt I feel that both communities have troublr accepting these type of children. People, in general, like to put people in racial categories and if you dont happen to fit in one, it makes them feel uncomfortable.Hopefully as more races mix, this will change.

[Ike]

What I meant to say was because you felt especially close to a family that is ethnically Chinese does not necessarily mean you felt close to them BECAUSE they were/are Chinese. So it doesn't have to mean that you feel like you're another race.

[minbo]

A lot of confusion is in equating ethnic heritage with cultural heritage, and rolling the whole shebang into the artificial confines of "race". A Korean adoptee growing up in some WASP family may be ethnically Asian, but I'd give odds that culturally they will be mostly if not totally WASP.

So...

1) Yes - Culture is by definition is transferable and learned. By learned I don't mean just learning a language and extensive book knowledge.

2) Yes - Because they can't believe that someone who doesn't look the part by not having the "correct" ethnic heritage, for whatever reason can truly have been incultured.

3) If they were raised in America and felt American, or raised in Germany and believe that they are German, raised in Hong Kong and think they are Honger etc. I don't see why you would have to prevent it. If they are just born in the good US of A and are a 'phile, be it for Franko, Anglo, Japano, Sino, whatever then I do think that you should try to prevent it, but I have no idea how. Generous beatings till moral improves?

[redbutton]

Redbutton, this is the last place to be disingenuous. If you're working on a project then say so, but don't come here under false pretenses even if the basic story you have is true. People here don't put up with foolishness of that sort. This is overall a very intelligent group and though there are many varying viewpoints most people would reach out to you if you are genuine, but they'll very quickly turn on you if they feel they're being had. Get your story straight from the start next time.



I did say I was workign at the project. I didnt put it at the top of the page because it wasnt really the first thing on my mind, although I probably should so people knew. I havent come under false pretenses and this would be the last palce I'd do that. I had been to the site before and the main reason why i'm here now is because I thought it was a smart group of people with opinions.


But what part did I not have striaght? If I messed up I wanna clear it up.

[DryInk]

Up until I was ten years old [maybe a few years less then that] I didnt know that I wasnt of asian decent... I grew up around people from different countries but the one family I spent the most time with was a Chinese family. They took care of me like I was one of their own children/siblings, spent more time with me then my own family and around the age of ten I noticed something was odd.

These people looked nothing like me.

Suddenly these feelings changed. I stopped calling them my brothers and sisters and mom. I started noticing small things such as people staring at us as if we were crazed [even the father of the house or relatives who would vist] when we walked together or when I recieved a kiss from their mom.

I practically lived with this family but I think as I grew the looks were more obvious and my ethnicity was starting to show. I never noticed or doubted my "race", I thought I was Chinese or atleast half[and they never told me differently].

When I hit my pre-teen years I stayed with my own family and still felt a bit confused about what I was. I wasnt the "average" looking black person. Light-skinned, light brown wavy/straight hair, slanted eyes...I was commonly mistaken for a "mixed" kid [white and black or black and asian].

The confusion started from the fact that I didnt look like other people of my race, and to this day i'm still trying to figure out what "race" I am [recently found out i'm not "black"].

- - - - -

So, [1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?
[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?
[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?







[sorry for the typos, grammar crap, and the fact that this was written in a hurry. just so you know, im doing a little project with a few friends thats dealing with race and identity...so answering this would be greatly appreciated]
[1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?
- Maybe you can identify with one more then the other. Since I grew up in different communties [mostly minority] it would be easy for me to say that I feel like that race. I doubt I felt like that race but that I got acepted in the communtiy more then I did my own. Yet I dont go around claiming to be hispanic or asian or white [even if I may be mixed with them. Race is , to me, a very shallow concept.

[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?
- I remember gettign a few odd looks from old traditional aisan couples, but i think it was only because of past predjudices they had with darker kids. once they got to know me they gernerally had no problem with me. If there is someone they arent use to or use to being around, they may not be as welcome to being around you.

[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?
- Constantly remind the child of what they are. Tell them about their/your past and what your cutlture race went through and the awesome things they did. I grew up with ( as some may say) a string sence of self. My parents tought me alot about black "culture". The music we've made, great moments in history and then taught me about other people who have done great in the world, such as Ghandi (who later grew up to be a hero of mine, thogh I didnt know much about him). My parents stayed pretty diverse, hispanic fmailies would come over and teach me about their culture and i'd stay with them for awhile. Then asian families would do the same. Its a metter of staying blanced and making sure your kid has pride in where they come from. If you dont, how will they?

[averagejoette]

[I]
So, [1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?
[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?
[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?


IMO,Race is a socially constructed entity that many people use to try to generalize other people. I think culture is different because its based on the way someone is raised, while race is based on the way you look. Culture is much more specific than race. Race is often linked to culture many times to further an agenda (ex: the model minority myth).

1) I don't know about feel, but I think people can identify with certain cultures and races. Certain races have traits attatched to them (whether they be true or not), then I think that someone can identify with a race. I think identifying with a race purely by looks alone is superficial.

2) Yes. I think that there are prejudices against people who don't look like a certain race. Conformity is what people expect, and once you fall outside of that boundary there is no longer a unified sense of race.

3) I think that it goes toward the wider picture of the community, rather than that specific child. I think that the community has to be more understanding and accepting. I think raising awareness about race is a good start.

[little mixed girl]

i don't know if someone can "feel" like they are a certain race.

i think that if you live with a group of people then you adapt to their way of life and see yourself as one of them.

i don't think that a person could say that a african born and raised in japan is not japanese. if they are looking at japanese as a race, then ok, but if they are looking at it as a culture then that's another story.

the idea of "acting" a race is stupid. there's no certain way that asians, whites, blacks, etc etc are programmed to act. most people act in response to the environment in which they were raised.

i haven't met any kids that though they should be a different race.
if there is such a kid, they might be in a "thing" and grow out of it. there are kids that want to be different things when they are younger, but many of them grow out of it.

[Tyger Durden]

[1] Do you think someone can "feel" like a certain race?

[2] Do certain communties, such as the Asian-American community or African-American community, still have trouble accepting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group?

[3] How would you deal with a [fill in race] child who believes that she should be [fill in race] and how would you prevent this from happening?




[1] "Feeling" like a certain race may be due to intentional or unintentional Imprinting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_%28psychology%29).

[2] Yes, not only "certain" Communities, but ALL Communities have various degrees of accepting/rejecting kids who dont look or fit in a certain race or group. This stems from either Colorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorism) and/or Colonialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism) in History and may produce the Tragic Mullato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto) example (in a psychological sense) I brought up earlier. These conditions existed before you were born and may persist into the future because they can be Institutional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism) in nature depending on Nation and the locales/social classes within that Nation.

[3] Prevent it? Let them live and learn on their own. Some will realize it was just an "imprinting" (#1 above) phase while growing up, but sooner or later acts of "colorism" and "colonialism" (#2 above) will let them know real quick they are different and then they may mimic the role described in the Tragic Mulatto link (#2 above). That's the world we live in. Some of those who continue to think they are of another race/ethnicity, when they are in fact not, do so for artistic alienation, self-rebellion, role-playing, social experimenting or simply because they feel the race/ethnicity they belong to, or have been placed in by Society, is simply too inadequate for their self-image. Others who have avoided this phase did so because they did not depend on race/ethnicity for self-definition and they strived to be a strong Individual who happens to be of _______ race/ethnicity, which is just a group of individuals with certain traits to begin with.


Addendum: there is a difference between Race and Culture, and the term "Ethnicity" usually combines both aspects and properties, but let me add something regarding Culture as an aspect separate from Race: I'm sure they are people who have "adopted" or "imprinted" unto another Culture, but do NOT believe they are part of the "race" associated with that particular Culture in a hereditary/ancestral sense. On the other hand, I'm sure there are others that DO believe this, despite the phenotype (appearence) difference between them and the people of that Culture. I think people of this inclination would rely heavily on genetic research to defend/justify their inclusion as member of that group in a genetic sense, to supplement whatever circumstances led to their inclusion in that group in a cultural sense. It's either a very fine line or a huge one depending on your perspective, I suppose, and where you want to draw that line. Most of the time, whether or not that "line" should be drawn in the first place becomes an Emotional issue rather than a Scientific one.

[little mixed girl]

^ tyler, you have been obsessed with "tragic mulatto" for how long now?
is there some reason for this?

are you part-black and feel that "tragic mulatto" describes your situation?
or do you feel like being a jerk to any person on this page who is mixed? because that seems to be your track record.

since you're in a page with people that are trying to stop racism, discrimination, etc; you should take a look at the words that you use in regards to other people.

[Tyger Durden]

Obsessed? In the context of MY usage, the conditions that create the Tragic Mulatto/Mulatta pertains to anyone caught between two races, two ethnicities, two cultures as the Author of this Thread described him/herself to be.

It does NOT have to describe the racial/biological mixture that applies to you yourself, it can describe an existential or psychological condition. You would know this if you bothered to read the link it corresponds to.

Ironically, it is your well-chronicled obsession over anything-Asian (through imprinting? cultural-appropriation? dissatisfaction with your own races/cultures?) that has lead you to question my usage of a historically non-Asian term to describe a existential/psychological condition that may affect anybody regardless of race/ethnicity/culture.

Judging from your reaction, I will not rule out that your reaction has to do with the distinct possibility that you fit one of the descriptions given in my previous post here.

If you have an issue with the word Mulatto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto#_note-1), I suggest you follow the etymology of the term and take it up with the Spanish, Portuguese, and possibly Arabic people who created the term in the first place.

[atlasien]

The Tragic Mulatto is a stereotype that has occasionally been used in the service of anti-miscegenation arguments. It's not a full-fledged theory of multiracial identity. I don't think it's an entirely worthless concept, but I certainly don't feel it describes my reality either.

It's useful as the description of a problem or set of adverse conditions... but counterproductive when taken to apply to all multiracial individuals. It can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Tyger Durden]

The Tragic Mulatto is a stereotype that has occasionally been used in the service of anti-miscegenation arguments. It's not a full-fledged theory of multiracial identity. I don't think it's an entirely worthless concept, but I certainly don't feel it describes my reality either.

It's useful as the description of a problem or set of adverse conditions... but counterproductive when taken to apply to all multiracial individuals. It can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.


The situation at hand is a person describing him/herself as a "black" person dealing with a non-Black (Asian) family while growing up and meeting disapproval of (he/she was not clear on this, by Whites? Blacks? Asians?) of other people. I could've used a Tarzan or The Ugly Duckling examples as metaphors to describe aspects of the situation, but that was between two Species and I'm sure it would've met with disbelief, shock and outrage. So I used the Historical example of the Tragic Mulatto.

After some thinking, I believe that maladjustment is a better word than the terms "existential" or "psychological" I used earlier. Until there is a term that describes the conditions of maladjustment between any combination of two or more "races", I'll continue to use the the TM example because it has historical precedence in America going back nearly 200 hundred years. Because of it's historical precedence, I consider the example wholly "generic", as in "belonging to a genre" or a very broad category until it there are more "specific" terms created. Those who don't know their History are doomed to repeat it.

And since America seems to always revolve around Blacks and Whites, while other Ethnicities are marginalized and forced to choose between the two as "examples" most of the time, using a Black/White term would make the most sense until the creation of other examples that would describe a person of other ethnicities caught between specific ethnicities e.g. a Tragic Eurasian or something.

Whether or not such terms would imply anti-miscegenation and lead to self-fulfilling prophecies in the Present Era is entirely relative given the numerous Forums, resources, IR marriage rates out there that promote it.

[little mixed girl]

Obsessed? In the context of MY usage, the conditions that create the Tragic Mulatto/Mulatta pertains to anyone caught between two races, two ethnicities, two cultures as the Author of this Thread described him/herself to be.

It does NOT have to describe the racial/biological mixture that applies to you yourself, it can describe an existential or psychological condition. You would know this if you bothered to read the link it corresponds to.

Ironically, it is your well-chronicled obsession over anything-Asian (through imprinting? cultural-appropriation? dissatisfaction with your own races/cultures?) that has lead you to question my usage of a historically non-Asian term to describe a existential/psychological condition that may affect anybody regardless of race/ethnicity/culture.

Judging from your reaction, I will not rule out that your reaction has to do with the distinct possibility that you fit one of the descriptions given in my previous post here.

If you have an issue with the word Mulatto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulatto#_note-1), I suggest you follow the etymology of the term and take it up with the Spanish, Portuguese, and possibly Arabic people who created the term in the first place.
you should explain YOUR usage of the word which is different from the original usage of the word which is derogatory.
since you seem to be reading books or websites that talk about that word, you should know how offensive it is.

a term that refers to someone trapped between two races, hated by both, belonging to none. how can that not be offensive?

it doesn't seem to help any discussion if you decide to pick an offensive word and give it a spin of your own, which seems to be what you are doing.

none of the people that you are attacking with those words has offended you personally, and i believe i have told you before that "mulatto" is derogatory, so...why do you continue?

of course, you tend to see only what you want to see.

[Tyger Durden]

You are like a broken record, over and over again.

It never fails how Asians, MixedAsians, Asiatics, the Asian-centric and the Latinos have to tip-toe around Blacks and Whites and their mixes because they may get their precious feelings hurt.

Please feel free to conduct your witchhunt and post any of your concerns here: http://www.mulatto.org/ (http://www.mulatto.org/)

I'm sure they would be happy to address any of your issues.

[little mixed girl]

and you don't know how to read.

if you came up with some kind of debate that made sense, then no one would have an issue with you.

people are getting pissed because you act like a little bitch, throw out derogatory words then whine about your opponent.

there is no tip-toeing around on this site by asians, unless i am missing something.
and get off your obession with blacks and whites, and if you are asian do something positive for your community. damn.

[Tyger Durden]

Have you posted your concerns that Mulatto is a possibly a derogatory word to the members of Mulatto.org (http://www.mulatto.org) yet?

If not, you have no argument against me...except for possibly lame attention-seeking on your part...and that's why you've slipped into emotional name-calling and cursing once again.

In fact, you've clearly lost this argument because Mulatto is NOT used as a derogatory term by members of that site.

You do know how to use the Internet, right? Go join that site and start a thread about the usage of Mulatto. I'll be checking up over there once in a while to see if you have the courage to do so.

I doubt it though. I think you'll be in over your head over there. They have some very intelligent members that would defend it's usage.

[Anansasem]

little mixed girl, ignore this fool, please. Don't even bother placing him on ignore. Personally, I've completely lost interest in him after wasting so much time attempting to reach an understanding. I have newfound sympathy for the Greek character Sisyphus condemned to a futile effort of pushing a rock up a hill only to see it stubbornly return to it's place. Hah.

By the way, can I asked the exact formula in your 'mix?' I'm the product of a Norwegian mother and an African/Japanese American father. I'm almost always curios about other bi/multiracial people.

[minbo]

A person's feeling of being insulted or denigrated doesn't disappear just because you can find some one or some group of people who are not offended by whatever verbiage is being used.

Certainly you may not feel that the term is offensive, and by the definition or standards you use, it may not be offensive, but once you have been made aware that someone you are having a discussion with prefers not to have the term used, is it really that hard to stop using it?

It's not tiptoeing around people, or succumbing to over active PC police, it's about courtesy and respect for others.

Or we can just go the Rosie or JV and Elvis route, claim that since they didn't think it was offensive, did not intend it to be offensive, by their private definition it is not offensive, and that because they can find some token Asian person who was not offended, it's OK to make ching chong jokes.

[Tyger Durden]

little mixed girl, ignore this fool, please. Don't even bother placing him on ignore. Personally, I've completely lost interest in him after wasting so much time attempting to reach an understanding. I have newfound sympathy for the Greek character Sisyphus condemned to a futile effort of pushing a rock up a hill only to see it stubbornly return to it's place. Hah.

So you know of Greek Myths, yet refuse to speculate on Blacks getting Egyptian tattoos?

Dude, I said it before and I'll say it again: you're a phony. You just photocopy genetic info, see symbolism in bad Sci-Fi movies and if people refuse to acknowledge your sham of genius or give you sympathy for your racially-confused childhood, you threaten to beat them up or use violence against them because you grew up a bully by virtue of being bigger than everyone else.



...Certainly you may not feel that the term is offensive, and by the definition or standards you use, it may not be offensive, but once you have been made aware that someone you are having a discussion with prefers not to have the term used, is it really that hard to stop using it?

And that's where you're wrong pal. It was NOT directed at her, but to the TOPIC of this thread....so yeah, you're playing PC Police and arresting the wrong minority here. Move along, Officer.

Since she is of half-Black and half-White admixture she is the perfect person to have a discussion with the people of Mullato.org (http://www.mulatto.org) and tell them why she feels it's offensive instead of starting Flame Wars elsewhere and playing victim on Asian-based Forums (more than one forum and more than one incident).

It's oxymoronic to find someone who may have REJECTED others of her ilk, yet find the term used by them with pride for group-identification offensive. If she does NOT identify with that group, then why complain about terms they and others have adopted or commodified? They and others don't need her permission to use it or not use it.

Furthermore, while we're on this subject, maybe you have some thoughts on Blacks and their ironic usage of the N-word as well? Maybe you can enlighten me on the subject.


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[minbo]

However, in Real Life, I've been suspended from school a couple of times for beating someone up who directed the remark toward another person (when i felt heroic) or toward me (when i let it get to me on rare occassions).

And that's where you're wrong pal. It was NOT directed at her, but to the TOPIC of this thread....so yeah, you're playing PC Police and arresting the wrong minority here. Move along, Officer.

Since she is of half-Black and half-White admixture she is the perfect person to have a discussion with the people of Mullato.org (http://www.mulatto.org) and tell them why she feels it's offensive instead of starting Flame Wars elsewhere and playing victim on Asian-based Forums (more than one forum and more than one incident).

Why do these points seem in direct opposition to each other? Was Rosie directing her ching chong statements directly to you? Was JV and Elvis calling your store?

As for the mullato.org site you keep on trotting out, they acknowledge that mullato, to some, is a charged term with negative connotations. Their moderators are very vigilant about deleting any posts and threads on the topic, constraining the the debate to one or two threads. They discuss why they chose the term and why they chose to define Mullato the way they did. They don't call the people who dislike the terms PC police or crybabies.

I do not view Mullato as an offensive term. I don't think that using it automatically makes you racist or a bigot, but if you know that a term you use upsets someone, you don't care and you purposefully keep on using it in front of them, defending it in an antagonistic fashion while calling them crybabies to boot, at the very least you are an asshole. A big gigantic gummy bear oozing goatse asshole.

It's not being a PC Police, it's called respecting your fellow human beings. If someone was telling you that you can't use the term "red headed stepchild" because it's offensive to red heads, or you can't use "black sheep of the family" because the black sheep are getting esteem problems, then yeah, that's an instance of overboard PC policing.

As for the N word, why is it OK for gay people to call each other fags but it not OK for gay bashers to do it? Because insulting someone not only takes into account verbage, but the intent and the person using it. A Jewish person making Jew jokes goes over a lot better than some redneck KKK member saying the same joke.

[Tyger Durden]

Originally Posted by Tyger Durden http://www.thefighting44s.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefighting44s.com/forum/showthread.php?p=25793#post25793)
However, in Real Life, I've been suspended from school a couple of times for beating someone up who directed the remark toward another person (when i felt heroic) or toward me (when i let it get to me on rare occassions).
Why do these points seem in direct opposition to each other? Was Rosie directing her ching chong statements directly to you? Was JV and Elvis calling your store?

because you've taken it out of context. I was comparing my experience as a teen-ager with my experience as an adult and how I react/reacted to racial remarks, as you would know if you bothered to read the ENTIRE passage of what I've wrote.

Amateurish mistake on your part. I expected better.

... As for the mullato.org site you keep on trotting out, they acknowledge that mullato, to some, is a charged term with negative connotations. Their moderators are very vigilant about deleting any posts and threads on the topic, constraining the the debate to one or two threads. They discuss why they chose the term and why they chose to define Mullato the way they did. They don't call the people who dislike the terms PC police or crybabies...

obviously, you've never been to that site or you would realize that they do have a Debate Forum. On their Positive Forum they may censor it, but they allow the discussion on their Debate Forum. The links are right there in front of their site.

You really, really are grasping for straws, huh?

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[minbo]

Yes, but of course, you've won. The points you raise in your rejoinder are so substantive, obvious and compelling.

I'm just an amateur crybaby PC policeman while you are a big gummy bear oozing goatse asshole.

I did the horrible crime of mixing up your teenager experience refusing to tolerate racist remarks that were not directed at yourself with your adult actions of purposefully utilizing a term someone has told you outright they were offended by, antagonisticly defending your continued use while belittling them. I can't believe that I had the temerity to grasp for straws by referencing what the moderators at your precious site have stated in various threads on the subject. Of course before doing so I never bothered to goto the site, read their posting guidelines, nor did I care to actually read a few threads they had on the subject.

I am humbled by your overarching logic, knowledge, your stunning grasps of the facts. I must kowtow to your obvious intellectual superiority, your dauntingly expansive cultural and interpersonal sensitivity.

[Tyger Durden]

That is quite refreshing to see ^

Your ignorance of what the "Free Speech" part means in their Debate And Free Speech Message Board (http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/mulattodebate) of Mulatto.org is rather shocking because Free Speech would be the ULTIMATE guideline and can be used in defense of your posts over there.

But maybe you should be forgiven. Admitting your wrong-doing and false-accusations is the first step in your recovery toward being a better human being, not the hypocritical one the World wants you to be in order to accept all of It's contradictions. Confessions are always good start.

Please put away your books and get out and meet the people you defend on the Internet where they are mere "abstracts". It's a very eye-opening experience to deal, live and talk with them as real people.

Whatever the results. I wish you the best of luck in your current attempt at reformation, Minbo.

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[little mixed girl]

Have you posted your concerns that Mulatto is a possibly a derogatory word to the members of Mulatto.org (http://www.mulatto.org) yet?

If not, you have no argument against me...except for possibly lame attention-seeking on your part...and that's why you've slipped into emotional name-calling and cursing once again.

In fact, you've clearly lost this argument because Mulatto is NOT used as a derogatory term by members of that site.

You do know how to use the Internet, right? Go join that site and start a thread about the usage of Mulatto. I'll be checking up over there once in a while to see if you have the courage to do so.

I doubt it though. I think you'll be in over your head over there. They have some very intelligent members that would defend it's usage.
i post on another site for mixed people that also has members or that site on it. and whenever someone on the forum i go to uses that word, i point out that it is offensive.

most of the people that i know that are black/white mixes find the word offensive, are their opinions negated by the fact that they don't have a website?

becuase there is a website, that means that no one is offended by that word?

at another forum i go to, asians say things like "i've got ch*nky eyes", so because they say those types of words and find no offense with them, i should also be allowed to use them freely?

i'm sure that i can find intellegent people that would defend the use of other words that are offensive to others. heck, i've been saying "that's gay" since high school, but i know that gays and others find it offensive, so i have curbed my use of the word.

saying that i have "lost the argument because mulatto is not offensive to people on the site" is like me saying "well i go to a site where asians call each other j*p and ch*nk, so that means that those words are not offensive either".

i know that you are mixed, so why don't you state your mix?

i am not half black, half white; as i believe i have said before my dad is white, and my mom is native american and black.

you talk alot about mixed people, but jump on anyone that might say anything that you disagree with.

again, state your mix so that i and others can see what's up with you.

[Tyger Durden]

I believe I've already challenged you to perform a task for me to clear up this matter: Have you yet joined Mulatto.org (http://www.mulatto.org/) and voiced your concerns to the Members of that particular site?

I recognize them as de facto spokespeople for that particular Ethnic Mix, no matter what you've said elsewhere. I will not marginalize and belittle their stance and beliefs in using that term to identify themselves with because YOU as a single person feels offended by it. In a way, I'm recognizing and respecting them as a Political entity that speaks on their own behalf and others like them and are very qualified to defend the usage of the term Mulatto.

Until you join their site and address your concerns to them about it's possible derogatory nature (I've yet to see a dictionary definition that denotes/connotes such, if so point it out), your argument against me in using it to describe a psychological state (which I have made abundantly clear) and NOT a racial or ethnic one for people dealing with two Ethnicities is a moot one. In the case of this Thread Topic, it's a person identifying with "Black" caught between his own world and an Asian one.

Once again, I'm looking forward to your debate against the Members of that site and will monitor that site every now and then to see if you will do so. Feel free to ask if the term Tragic Mulatto can or cannot be used to describe a psychological state for people dealing with two Ethnicities and not necessarily a racial/ethnic state.

Until you have garnered answers from THEM, you can think of me as a Knight of the Ku Klux Klan for all I care.

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[Tyger Durden]

Food for thought from the eloquent Minbo, most aptly fitting the latest developments of the current thread--

...Our thought patterns are just slaves of language, which is why people fight over stupid terminology...

Sorry if I took it out of context, but since I don't have a handy thesaurus like yours laying around to explain myself, I took the liberty of pulling this great quote from what you said elsewhere around here. Hope you don't mind. It's very fitting.