QOTD: Cults

[atlasien]

Some people say that there is no way to tell the difference between a cult and a religion, but I believe there are criteria that help establish a difference.
Here's one list:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader. (http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html)
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

I used to think that only naive and easily impressionable people joined cults. It's become sort of a hobby for me to read about them, and one of the first things I found out is, that idea isn't true. Cults often recruit young, strong-willed, idealistic people and give them an outlet for their energy. Then using simple effective techniques such as "love-bombing", exhaustion and reduced caloric intake, they indoctrinate them into cult life.

Some of my relatives are in a very controlling church that exhibits some signs of being a cult, but isn't really. Other than that, I don't have any personal experiences with cults... so the Q is, do you have any experiences with a cult, whether it's as a member yourself, a relative or friend, or experiences as a cult critic?

[maogirl]

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

wahahaha!

sounds like me, especially when i'm involved with someone.

join my cult, bitches!

[silkie]

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.


sounds more like architecture school to me...

[minbo]

Someone I knew in High School got sucked into a Yoga cult when she went to a Yoga retreat with them for a week. She was kidnapped by request of her parents and put through "deprogramming", but the deprogramming did not work and she went back to the cult. The incident with the kidnapping and de-programming actually made the papers. She ended up marrying the cult's lawyer who was over twice her age. Recently she got out and divorced the guy, still teaches Yoga though.

Another friend of mine was targeted by a cult once. He was volunteering for some non-profits. One was a front for a cult, they tried to get him sleep and calorie deprived by having him go to their "main office" to talk to him about their non-profit front after he got off his job. They tried to keep him there for a weekend, had someone stay with him and talk to him, but he was able to get out because his work ethic wouldn't let him miss work on Monday, even though he started to agree with him about how great the work that they were doing, how much they needed him, how he was such a good person and should spend more time helping them with their good work, etc. They wanted him to go back after immediately he got off of work, but he stopped by and chatted with me and my friends first. We tried to tell him it was a cult and not to go back. He would have gone back, but we were able to find the organization listed as a cult on some FBI list or something, which gave him enough caution to refuse to see them again for a few days after he had some food and sleep. It still took a week or two before he really believed us and repudiated the cult and what the did as an attempt to brain wash, but after he finally did kick them to the curb entirely, he was really, really pissed off at them, almost homicidal.

[averagejoette]

I have not been in contact with a cult. In high school, we use to joke around and say that journalism was a cult because of the excessive hours we spent there, but according to that list, we were far from being a cult.
Honestly, religious cults scare the shit out of me because they tend to have quite of bit of power over people's lives. I remember this one case, where the cult leader made everyone in his cult commit suicide.

[atlasien]

They tried to keep him there for a weekend, had someone stay with him and talk to him, but he was able to get out because his work ethic wouldn't let him miss work on Monday, even though he started to agree with him about how great the work that they were doing, how much they needed him, how he was such a good person and should spend more time helping them with their good work, etc.

It's terrifying how easy it is to brainwash someone.

Of course, the trick is keeping them brainwashed, which is where the cult control systems come into play.

I highly recommend the Murakami non-fiction book, Underground (http://www.amazon.com/Underground-Tokyo-Attack-Japanese-Psyche/dp/0375725806), which has lots of fascinating testimony from Aum Shinrikyo members.

[Vahz]

What was the old saying?

Oh, yea. A cult is just a religion with no political power.

[lopan]

When i was much younger I was almost roped into a cult. When i find some time, i'll write up a post on my experience. Luckily I had the emotional maturity to figure that something wasn't right, and i was able to disassociate myself from the organization.

[cattygurl]

Know some ex-scientologists, and worked with ex-extreme FLDS members (similar to warren jeffs clan), and also couple of former Quivers.

I consider them to be cultish, but that's just me.

[kikiandlala]

Still a cult has to see you as being of use to them, for them to want to recruit you. I remember this Sociology prof, who told us about this from his own personal experience. He was researching the Rajneeshi presence in London, UK. So he interviews one would-be member. The prof said, the guy was nice enough and he felt bad for thinking this, but the guy was such a social fuck-up and stumblingly inarticulate that he just blotted the guy out of his mind - in fact this guy desperately wanted to join the cult, just so he could have the chance to meet someone. Anyways the guy took the prof, to the Rajneeshi recruitment party. When the grand Poobah or whatever started calling out "Who wishes to be a member" and pointing out the chosen recruits, the poor nebbish guy was practically bursting out and waving his hand - hoping the Poobah would pick him. Well each time the Poobah, just kind of pointed past the guy and so in the end, not even the Rajneeshis wanted that poor bugger.

A cult would give their arm to have Tom Cruise as a member, but most wouldn't want to pick up the average bum off the streets. They're running cults not soup kitchens.

[lopan]

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.



When I was 17 I’d become disillusioned with my former karate school and began looking at other martial arts schools in the area; in particular, I was interested at the time in learning Wushu and picking up weapons knowledge. I did look at a number of schools, but one of them stuck out; their sales pitch was astounding, and as an impressionable young teenager, I was roped in instantly. That school (though I’m ashamed to admit it) was known as “Temple Kung Fu”. Google it now and you’ll find forums populated by ex-members of the school who discuss their experience like something out of an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. They were “survivors”.

I’ll go through the various criteria for cults and relate it back to Temple Kung Fu, as their policy and culture was so close to cultish it was unreal. That’s how they kept their membership.

1. Absolute Authoritarianism. The head and founder of the school was a man named “Grand Master Simon”. He made outrageous claims at how, a short time during or after WWII, he found himself somewhere in the middle of China away from his German troop. He came across a “shaolin” temple, which taught this obscure style known as the “Moh” system. He became a student there and eventually rose to become a figure equivalent to the head of a religious organization. Indeed, he called himself the “Dalai Seng Shi”, or his “Holiness” as the “World Leader” of a (entirely fictional) organization known as the Neo Ch’an Buddhist Temple. This was how he was referred to within the school and he was revered as some sort of heroic leader. When he made visits to the school (and he did show up every now and then to hold “seminars” – which were elaborate farces staged for him to fleece more money from him membership) he was worshipped without question.

2. No tolerance for critical inquiry and the protection of information. The manner in which we were taught was extremely structured. They guarded knowledge so closely, and in order to progress one had to pass a series of tests that went above and beyond physical skills test (as one would normally find at a regular martial arts school). There were always two training areas; a private area and the so-called “Grand Hall”. At our branch, in order for the men to get to the men’s changeroom, we had to walk through the private training area and through the grand hall. WHEN WE DID THIS, we were instructed to KEEP OUR HEADS DOWN so as not to see what more advanced students were learning at the time. Have you ever been to a martial arts school where junior members were forbidden to even SEE what senior members were doing? Unheard of, but it was all part of the system of control, and the tests served as a system of intiation that served to commit members even more fully to the organization.


3. No meaningful financial disclosure. Not that businesses often discose their financial statements to their members, but Temple Kung Fu was constantly in need of money. At every opportunity they imposed dues and fees, and often at unreasonable amounts. An example was the so-called “Kung Fu” club. I’d like to preface this story by saying that I didn’t get too far in the system (I was already a 9th kyu brown belt in shotokan when I joined, and started all over as a white belt at Temple). Anyhow, I’d only been there for a few months when they approached me with an offer to join the EXCLUSIVE “Kung Fu” club, which allowed me to learn more advanced techniques. This wasn’t really a choice, as NOONE was able to advance past Orange belt without joining the Kung Fu club. Furthermore, in order to “join” this “exclusive” club, I had an 8-member panel interview with senior members where they DIDN’T test my physical skills, but my personal disposition. I had to write an essay. I had to submit a resume. Surprisingly, one of the things they pointed out of my CV was my involvement in so many extra curriculars (I was a high performer in highschool and was leader of a number of key student clubs/organizations). They brought this to attention and used it to question my ability to commit my time to the “kung fu” club. In retrospect, I think the fact that I was a leader in school worried them as it would be harder to indoctrinate me as a result. Long story short, I passed the test. I was happy; now I could learn new techniques. And then they hit me with money. At that point they wanted a 3-year commitment to the school, plus a downpayment of a few thousand dollars. When I declined, they brought my commitment to kung fu and to MYSELF into question; it was a tough thing to navigate as a 17 year old boy.

4. Unreasonable Fear of the Outside World. They told me right out that as a member of Temple, I was not allowed to learn from any other school. Doing so would force the school to expel me. Obviously, Temple’s kung fu was the best and there was no reason to learn from arts elsewhere as that would taint my “pure” kung fu at Temple. The way we learned was ridiculous; for example, we all had to buy these “pads” for our forearms and shins that were little more than foam with Velcro. Not surprisingly, they were very expernsive to purchase. But the rationale behind this was that – unlike other arts which were “dangerous” to students, Temple was safe. Those pads helped foster stronger bones WITHOUT inflicting damage to the forearms and shins from contact during practice. Completely bogus (they didn’t work worth a damn), but everyone believed that what they were doing was safe, and anything else was unnecessarily dangerous. Similarly, sparring was discouraged, and was only allowed at some of the highest levels of learning within the school (which is counter to almost any martial arts school around, which stress combat as quickly as possible). Again, anything else was unnecessarily dangerous.

5. No legitimate reason to leave. When you begin to express dissent and begin to slow down in frequency at the school, they bring you into their office and talk to you personally. They try to get you to take more private classes (they always ensure to schedule your “next” session, so you don’t have a chance to get away). When I told them I wanted to leave, they hit me with every cult technique designed to impose guilt and rope the membership back towards the organization. “Don’t you want to continue your kung fu?” they asked. “Don’t you want to continue to better yourself? If you believe so much in your kung fu training, why would you want to leave here? Do you understand that if you leave now, you will NEVER be able to return to the Temple Kung Fu school? Do you realize that you are not allowed to learn from other schools/disciplines, and that if you do, you forfeit your membership here?” They called my house every other day trying to get me to sign up for this absurd “Kung fu” club and show my commitment to the school, Dalai Seng Shi, and my colleagues.

6. Former members relate stories of abuse. Go online and Google “Temple Kung Fu” and you’ll find ex members talking about their experiences. The school is all over North America, and their system of indoctrination is the same everywhere. “Grand Master” Simon worked the system down to a science – and come to think of it, he probably learned it from the Nazis.

7. Documentation of abuses. Look online. It’s all there. Look up “Grand Master O.E. Simon”. But back then, when I was younger, the internet was in its infancy and we didn’t have the same level of access to this information. I think the internet has done a good job in killing the business for Temple as more and more ex members come forward to voice their concerns of this cult-like organization.

ETA: Simon was actually taken to court for fraud. You can find transcripts of his court proceedings online, where he publicly aknowledges making everything up. He also demonstrates how crafty he is, by deftly evading questions by the prosecution.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15898

8. Followers feel they can never be good enough. There was always another level, another club, more tests, and you were NEVER able to see what senior students were learning. You did not know what you didn’t know; it was a big mystery, and the school knew that if you didn’t’ know what you didn’t know, you would be more inclined to stick around to find out. All of this only underlined the fact that, as a student, you really knew nothing.

9. The group/leader is always right. No one questioned the “Dalai Seng Shi”. He was worshipped and revered. Ridiculous stories of how he was able to defend against knife attacks – using techniques that would get ANYONE slashed up – were completely believed. Not to mention his ridiculous past that I’m certain was completely fabricated. Senior students worked hard to quell dissent and to encourage absolute obedience.

10. The leader has possession of exclusive truth. Obviously. He’s the “Dalai Seng Shi” of the “Neo Ch’an Buddhist Temple”! As a religious figure, he must be in possession of the absolute truth.

[lopan]

I only lasted 8 months at the school, and only because I wanted to get the most out of the dues I’d already given them. What I was learning was NOT kung fu. It was little more than some sort of converted version of Karate, yet they gave everything very esoteric sounding names. I was something of a black sheep at the school; other students looked at me with disdain (especially some of the senior students). At one of my private sessions, one of my instructors went outside of policy and asked to spar with me (I was a “white belt”) as he knew I was a brown belt. I was all for it. I remember landing a HUGE sidekick on the guy that knocked him back a few feet (I’ve got a deadly fast and powerful right side kick). Rattled, he came back, and tried for a “hard” kick himself. He touched me, and pushed me (instead of making impact). I stepped back a bit from the force. He looked at me and smirked, “See? I can go hard too!”. I remember thinking at what a huge joke that was.

The school’s policy was that they didn’t normally take students younger than 18. I found later that this policy was a result of control, as once you’re 18, you have authority over your own finances. Because I was 17 at the time, I often fell back to “my mom won’t let me” when they approached me for more money. And lo and behold, when I turned 18 (they knew exactly when my bday was), they called me up and pitched me again. When I used the “my parents wouldn’t’ allow it”, they pulled the “but you’re a man now. You should be able to make your own decisions. Don’t you want to be a man?” How do you answer something like that?

The school was such a scam. Obviously, student members were fleeced. But even the instructors were not immune to the system; teaching for the Temple was considered a “privilege”. They would be teaching all day, and all week, and many were often relocated by the school to cities where they were needed, uprooting their lives. In fact many instructors quit very decent jobs to be poorly paid “temple kung fu” instructors. I can imagine the pitch that was made to them, “Don’t you want to continue with your kung fu? Don’t you want to share all this knowledge that has been imparted on you?” From the forums I’ve read, it seems that the average instructor was paid only CDN$25,000 – just under the poverty line. Instructors were also under heavy pressure to meet quotes (they were salesmen!). Apparently they needed to sign up at least 2 students per week!

The culture at the school was incredibly solemn and serious. There was no sense of comraderie. We were like a herd. We were all referred to by our last names. I was “Mr. Lee”. I didn’t’ know anyone’s first names. And of course, I never saw people training together outside of class (where friendships are made) – it was forbidden. At the end of each class, we all lined up and signed the register so that the school had a record of our attendance.

Obviously, things didn’t work out for me. I joined because I expected certain things – I was promised that I would learn weapons (which I didn’t learn), and I was sold on the “private session” format of the school (which was little more than a series of one-on-one sales pitches). I should have known immediately that something was wrong. And my mom called me on it, when I told her I was the only Chinese guy there. She said, “It’s a kung fu school, and no one is Chinese – or Asian? Something’s not right.”

Something was not right indeed.

[lopan]

Apparently Simon created his "neo ch'an" religion as a means to evade paying taxes. Here's a post from one of the forums that continues to keep track of Temple Kung Fu's transgressions:

http://groups.google.ca/group/realkungfu/browse_thread/thread/17b9ac8ae97e7fcc
This was posted by "The Book Keeper" - Jan 31, '06 on the Temple Kung
Fu Techniques forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/364002/thread/1138373976/last-11387208...

Simon's Pai Hui Shi\ Neo Chan cash grab
January 31 2006, 7:20 AM

Here is a technique that Simon uses to get tax free money: Start a
religion and then use the kung fu club to recruit new members.

Here is how the progression at TKF works:

Sil Lum Pai
Introduction- 3 months-
Kung fu club\ brown belt training (usually after one month of being
there)
Sparring club
Activity pass or whatever they soak you for now.

After 4-5 years you're at brown belt level and you can ONLY progress to
new knowledge if you join the Pai Hui Shi "brotherhood" (where you'll
learn the real way to punch). Remember, this is AFTER you have spent
$3000 plus for a brown belt membership.

Here is the catch: You can only join Pai Hui Shi if you join the Neo
Chan Buddhist temple, Simon's self-invented religion.

The new price of entry (this comes from current members:
1st year $1500
2nd year $850
3rd year $650

As well you are STRONGLY advised to make an annual $100 or more
"donation" to Neo Chan as well.

All Pai Hui Shi memberships are treated as "donations", not
memberships, and as such are tax-free to Simon, the club does not see
$1 of this revenue. This is why Sparrow and company have created the
"activity" fee of $89 per month.

Many may not be aware of this but starting next month all Pai Hui Shi
donations are being annualized so any and all donations are made in
March of each year. ALL donations hitting the coffer at the same time
(just before RRSP season I might add, a time when mutual funds usually
have a spike in performance).

But it doesn't stop there. For many years the Pai Hui Shi membership
did not go up in price. This didn't sit well with Simon so he has
decided that the Senior Pai Hui Shi members were getting a free ride by
only paying $450 per year. So how did he solve this ghastly oversight?
Welcome to "Leveling".

Leveling is a retro-active means of charging the senior members over
the course of 3 years, taking into account the 2005 "donation". As
a result they raised the fee in 2005 and split the following 3 years
into a progressive scale of escalation. Here is an actual example for 1
member:

End Date: 2005 Dec-2004
Over due $0
Dues 2005 $650
Pro-rate months
(months to Feb. 06) 2
ProRate -
Amount to Feb 2006 $108.33
ProRate -
Months From March 2006 0
ProRate -
Amount From March 2006 $0.0
Amount Due To Feb 2006 $758.33
Amount Paid - 2006 $0.0
Overdue $758.33
Dues 2006 $450
Adjust Increase $200
Amount Due 2007 $1408.33
Amount Paid 2007 $0.0
Over due $1408.33
Amount Due 2008 $650.00
Adjusted Increase $200
Amount Due- 2008 $2,258.00

Add 3 $100 donations and you have $2,558.00. SOme of the 2008 amounts
due were way higher.

Include an Activity pass of $89 per month: $1,068 plus $650 plus $100 =
$1,818.00 per year for a senior PHS member (this excludes the leveling)

So let's do some projections\ estimates for tax free donations (to
simplify let's exclude the "Leveling" of loyal members bank
accounts).

Current # of TKF clubs = 11 (U.S. and Canada)

New Pai Hui Shi members 2006:
10 members = $15,000 plus $100 Neo Chan donation = $1000

2nd year: 10 members =$8,500 plus Neo Chan = $1000

3rd and existing: 20 members = $13,00 plus Neo Chan = $2,000

Grand Total per club = $40,500 x 11 clubs = $445,500

So every March Simon and is going to receive approx. $445,000 TAX Free!
This does not include Mediation seminars, uniforms (all made in the
Simon sweat shop in Grand Forks), books, or any other crap the
instructors can guilt you into buying, or MOST importantly, the monthly
franchise fee each studio has to pay to Simon. It also doesn't
include the loss of members coming to their senses and escaping into
the real world of reality.

It should be interesting to see how many PHS members leave next month.

If you pro-TKF supporters think Simon isn't pulling each and every
string that runs this franchise you are deluded.

And does anyone want to guess the reaction of the TKF cult leaders when
they got a negative response to this "Leveling"? Guilt, ungrateful,
anyone that leaves is a loser, etc.

This concludes "Accounting 101" of Temple Cult Fu. Start saving
Anon1!

[maogirl]

*takes notes*

i've always wanted to be some kind of cult leader. seriously. i just need an angle.