People who condone racist remarks

[Ike]

An open letter to people who condone racist remarks:

I am not okay with white people using the n-word, the s-word, the c-word, or any of those derogatory ethnic slurs. I am not okay with jokes perpetuating stereotypes of racial minorities. I will speak up and say that it is wrong, that I will not tolerate that kind of talk.

But then, why must you (as the minority that they are making fun of) laugh along and say that it's okay?

I understand that YOU don't mind being made fun of. I don't either. I waddle when I walk. I have atrocious fashion sense. I burp loudly after meals. I have a full-size spare tire. Go ahead and poke fun at me on any of those topics, and you will see that I do have a sense of humor.

But what you are doing is saying it's okay to make fun of ANYONE of your race, and you do not have the right to give the permission of others. You are saying that it's okay to assume that my best friend will steal your TV. You are saying that it's okay to ching-chong my mother. You are saying that it's okay to make fun of YOUR friends and YOUR family.

So please... stop laughing. Stop being such a tool. Stop telling me to lighten up and get a sense of humor. Start asserting that it's not okay to make derogatory comments about your race. I'll back you up.

[KHANartist]

An open letter to people who condone racist remarks:

I am not okay with white people using the n-word, the s-word, the c-word, or any of those derogatory ethnic slurs. I am not okay with jokes perpetuating stereotypes of racial minorities. I will speak up and say that it is wrong, that I will not tolerate that kind of talk.

But then, why must you (as the minority that they are making fun of) laugh along and say that it's okay?

I understand that YOU don't mind being made fun of. I don't either. I waddle when I walk. I have atrocious fashion sense. I burp loudly after meals. I have a full-size spare tire. Go ahead and poke fun at me on any of those topics, and you will see that I do have a sense of humor.

But what you are doing is saying it's okay to make fun of ANYONE of your race, and you do not have the right to give the permission of others. You are saying that it's okay to assume that my best friend will steal your TV. You are saying that it's okay to ching-chong my mother. You are saying that it's okay to make fun of YOUR friends and YOUR family.

So please... stop laughing. Stop being such a tool. Stop telling me to lighten up and get a sense of humor. Start asserting that it's not okay to make derogatory comments about your race. I'll back you up.

I totally agree that racial slurs are unacceptable and are grounds for a good beating. However, it doesn`t matter who makes them. If it`s a white person, an Asian guy like me, an East Asian/black/Hispanic, using racial slurs they should all be prepared for a fight. Nobody should have the special privilege of using them and expecting to get away with it. The same goes for sexist slurs targetting women.

[Ike]

I agree. The letter just said white people, because usually that's who makes them.

I wasn't saying anyone should be able to make racial slurs or jokes targeting any race. I was saying that I'm SICK OF people of COLOR who LAUGH and give others "permission" to make these remarks.

[Kuroyama]

While I find racist remarks to be hurtful and do not condone them... what I find more disturbing is one groups self-felt level of entitlement to determine what should or should not be offensive to another group. As a white person, if you crack a Black joke, and YOU dont think its hurtful... understand that since you ARENT Black you dont get to decide that. Black people do.

That goes for anyone of any race.

IMO that display of entitlement is deserving of a beatdown...but for the sake of my brothers of all colors, I dont advise giving them. Living well and being successful is far better revenge against those who would oppress you. Rather than giving a good beating and going to jail. Having a permanent record and all that entails.

How would you answer question that in a job search when your prospective employer is likely to be white? You could limit your searches to Asian owned companies... but now youre imposing limits on yourself... all because you could walk away from one knucklehead?

"See the future and it will be."

[Hadouken]

I agree. The letter just said white people, because usually that's who makes them.

I wasn't saying anyone should be able to make racial slurs or jokes targeting any race. I was saying that I'm SICK OF people of COLOR who LAUGH and give others "permission" to make these remarks.

But won't you get tired of turning every gaff into a confrontation? And what happens when one of your friends let slip a racist slur? Are you going to start policing every event and conversation? I'm just curious at how you're enforcing your stance without becoming the stick in the mud among your social circles.

[Lum]

While at times racist, a lot of these remarks you hear are closer to irreverence and that's not going away anytime soon. Americans are an irreverent society. We have reason to be. It's when this behavior is taken as a ticket to use these terms liberally that I personally draw the line. Unless you want to spend every waking moment angry it is more important that you find a balance in yourself, be able to discern the intent behind words and stand up when the time is right.

I'm sure we've all heard people say there's a difference between n---er and n--ga. There really are two sides to this coin. For one thing, the desensitisation trend was largely helmed by the gay community in the 1980s to address the slang of sexual orientation. It wasn't a bad idea, but the results were marginal. Obviously no group is going to consent unanimously to any such representation, but still the concept branched out to the realm of ethnic slurs and generated even more controversy. Combine this with the popularity of hip-hop, comedians who carved out a niche in the cutting-edge and a country with political correctness on the table and you have the world as we know it today. Everyone reacting to everything is inevitably going to create extremes on both ends.

I have chosen not to ally myself. Decrying all slurs spoken by anyone in any context is a prospect I find way too debilitating and robs me of much of the richness of life. On the topic of comedians I would have to say that I'll never again laugh at the works of Dave Chappelle and the legendary Richard Pryor; a promise I would break almost immediately. In music I would have to swear off Public Enemy, a group that has actually helped me in fighting my own battles with racism so to that I say hell no. And for the whole of visual media I would have to live out the rest of my days as a hypocrite-artist, because there will always exist a tendency in me to see the world objectively.

Getting back to the n-word, there is to me a big difference in using it in context and taking it as a free pass. I was mentored in the jeweller trade by a black man 10 years my senior. His ways were a touch more old-fashioned than mine and he simply didn't want to hear the word. In 7 years under his tutelage I've heard him say it once in a hushed tone and completely in context. Do I tell him that times have changed and when I say it, it means something entirely different? Of course not. I respected his position and simply avoided it altogether. I've noticed that most people who make this arguement have no black friends to speak of. A white friend of mine brought this up saying that people know he doesn't mean anything harmful, to which I said okay, so should I invite some of my African American friends over so you can show me? Well that shut him up and quickly.

It's important to remember that nearly all of the cries of racial hypocrisy are spewed by the whites trying to instill doubt in our hearts and cause fighting amongst each other. There is use and there is abuse. My advice is to not fall prey, be of good humor and heart, and simply use your best judgement in determining intent. Racism may be sneaky, but it is about the farthest from being subtle.

[Ike]

But won't you get tired of turning every gaff into a confrontation? And what happens when one of your friends let slip a racist slur? Are you going to start policing every event and conversation? I'm just curious at how you're enforcing your stance without becoming the stick in the mud among your social circles.

I *am* the stick in the mud. That's why I don't have any friends, and I spend all my time on the F44 forums.

[KHANartist]

I agree. The letter just said white people, because usually that's who makes them.


Only because we live in societies where they are the majority. I`ve been called a P*** by white/Native/East Asian/black men and I always make it a point to rip them apart.

[kimtae]

Only because we live in societies where they are the majority. I`ve been called a P*** by white/Native/East Asian/black men and I always make it a point to rip them apart.

But never the white guy, just like a good lapdog.

[atlasien]

In college I was good friends with an Arab foreign student who loved to sit around the patio at lunch and sling racial insults. It was a diverse group there... no white or black Americans though. It was some pretty hilarious yet vicious stuff.

Race is kind of like sex or death. It's easy to hit a trigger with a joke, and cause a "I'm really pissed off" versus "that's really funny" reaction. Comedy isn't just jokes though, it's this incredibly complicated social performance matrix. It's the location, the media, the expression on the comedian's face, the inflection, the timing, the race of the comedian, the audience composition, the mood, the historical or contemporary context and a ton of other factors. It's impossible to establish absolute judgments for what's racist in comedy.

I don't think it's all totally relative either. One standard that's relatively easy to apply... is making fun of a subordinate group used to support cohesion of a dominant group? This is the main purpose of a lot of racist jokes. It's when the white people in the office notice none of the minorities are there so one of them looks around conspiratorially and starts cracking jokes.

A secondary purpose is direct attacking and belittling of the minority group while supporting cohesion of the dominant group. Those who have experienced "ching-chonging" in school immediately recognize this dynamic.

Comedians who argue "I didn't mean to harm anyone, and anyway ___ person thought it was funny" are often perfectly sincere, but they're fooling themselves. They're putting all the judgment on a supposed target representative, when it's really more about the dominant group than it is about the target.

[KHANartist]

But never the white guy, just like a good lapdog.

You`re way too hung-up on skin colour. Is it because some white/black and Desi men are doing your sister on those rare occasions when your insecure head isn`t up their skirts? You need a girlfriend or maybe you fancy the boys I don`t know. You definitely need something though.

[kimtae]

You`re way too hung-up on skin colour. Is it because some white/black and Desi men are doing your sister on those rare occasions when your insecure head isn`t up their skirts? You need a girlfriend or maybe you fancy the boys I don`t know. You definitely need something though.

Pathetic little sellout whore.

[KHANartist]

Pathetic little sellout whore.

You desparately need a gf. Oh that`s right no woman would ever give you the time of day.

[redbutton]

I agree with Ike. And in my opinion, allowing racist remarks/laughing at them/ not saying anything makes you just as bad as the person who said them.

Its like in school when you would let someone cheat off of you you were told [mostly by teachers] that its the same thing as cheating....kinda like that, but different.


:/

[kimtae]

You desparately need a gf. Oh that`s right no woman would ever give you the time of day.

Owee, my fgeelings are hurt. The apologetic sell-out says I'm not popular. Boohoohoo, too bad I'm not white, he'd beg me to take his sister.

[Tyger Durden]

Race is kind of like sex or death. It's easy to hit a trigger with a joke, and cause a "I'm really pissed off" versus "that's really funny" reaction. Comedy isn't just jokes though, it's this incredibly complicated social performance matrix. It's the location, the media, the expression on the comedian's face, the inflection, the timing, the race of the comedian, the audience composition, the mood, the historical or contemporary context and a ton of other factors. It's impossible to establish absolute judgments for what's racist in comedy.

I don't think it's all totally relative either. One standard that's relatively easy to apply... is making fun of a subordinate group used to support cohesion of a dominant group? This is the main purpose of a lot of racist jokes. It's when the white people in the office notice none of the minorities are there so one of them looks around conspiratorially and starts cracking jokes.

A secondary purpose is direct attacking and belittling of the minority group while supporting cohesion of the dominant group. Those who have experienced "ching-chonging" in school immediately recognize this dynamic.

Comedians who argue "I didn't mean to harm anyone, and anyway ___ person thought it was funny" are often perfectly sincere, but they're fooling themselves. They're putting all the judgment on a supposed target representative, when it's really more about the dominant group than it is about the target.

great points. Well said.

Obviously, one can't do much about racist remarks on Internet forums because it will be defended as "Freedom of Speech" or something along those lines. It's up to Moderators and the Site Administrator to do the policing...if they in turn find it offensive.

However, in Real Life, I've been suspended from school a couple of times for beating someone up who directed the remark toward another person (when i felt heroic) or toward me (when i let it get to me on rare occassions).

As an adult, the remarks are usually made in jest toward me and/or toward others, as in "I'm only joking", but I try to make a quick remark back in joking fashion, time and situation permitting, as a way to retaliate even if i wasn't the target.

Ultimately, we all have our ways of dealing with it and there is more than one way. Actually "silence" may save your life in a threatening/violent situation. Just grin and bear it and live to fight another day.

[KHANartist]

Owee, my fgeelings are hurt. The apologetic sell-out says I'm not popular. Boohoohoo, too bad I'm not white, he'd beg me to take his sister.

I never met anybody who was more obsessed with whites. That`s extremely unhealthy. If you could take the peeling off that banana you could be the colour you`ve always fancied.

[kimtae]

I never met anybody who was more obsessed with whites. That`s extremely unhealthy. If you could take the peeling off that banana you could be the colour you`ve always fancied.

Funny, a coconut accusing others...

[Tyger Durden]

I never met anybody who was more obsessed with whites. That`s extremely unhealthy. If you could take the peeling off that banana you could be the colour you`ve always fancied.

Funny, a coconut accusing others...

I'm sure Coconut and Banana are derogatory terms around here. Y'all better chill out just in case.

[KHANartist]

I'm sure Coconut and Banana are derogatory terms around here. Y'all better chill out just in case.

Yes, indeed they are as well as being immature. I`ll drop the name-calling if kimtae is man enough to do the same. What do you say kimtae, are you going to be a boy or a man? Other members have had enough of both of us.

[kimtae]

Yes, indeed they are as well as being immature. I`ll drop the name-calling if kimtae is man enough to do the same. What do you say kimtae, are you going to be a boy or a man? Other members have had enough of both of us.

No, mostly they've just had enough of you. Just make it simple and be gone. You have nothing constructive to add here.

[jaehwan]

Yes, indeed they are as well as being immature. I`ll drop the name-calling if kimtae is man enough to do the same. What do you say kimtae, are you going to be a boy or a man? Other members have had enough of both of us.

I usually don't get involved with stuff like this, but KHANartist, I agree with kimtae. You never add anything constructive, you pollute the board with your nonsense, and you're just here to rile people up. I think you'd be happier elsewhere. And no hard feelings, but I think most people here would be happier with you elsewhere.

[atlasien]

Etymological detour question...

Why are words for racial traitors always food items?

And why are they always sweet?

[Scowl]

Well, racial discourse in the US is at the highest comfort level for all involved when the discussion is about ethnic food, so maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe it's because it's just funnier.

Besides, what other stuff has a white filling that everyone knows about? Although that does bring up the question of who is responsible for creating food that has a white filling...... hmm......

[jaehwan]

Etymological detour question...

Why are words for racial traitors always food items?

And why are they always sweet?

What about "Uncle Tom?"

What about "Eggplant?" (A food item, but not very sweet.)

[.:hanbox3r]

Etymological detour question...

Why are words for racial traitors always food items?

And why are they always sweet?

a pretty common occurrence (in my neck of the woods) is "egg"... white guy who's yellow on the inside. So, the theory of all racial traitor terms being sweet tasting is disproved - but you do have something on the topic of them being food items.

[nottyboy]

a pretty common occurrence (in my neck of the woods) is "egg"... white guy who's yellow on the inside. So, the theory of all racial traitor terms being sweet tasting is disproved - but you do have something on the topic of them being food items.

The first such term I'd ever heard was "oreo". Not sure if there are older terms like that, but maybe that started things rolling in a certain direction.

I've also heard things like that in local politics back home. Some people were called 'watermelons' because they professed Independence party allegiance (green), but always voted for the commonwealth party (red) so the statehood party wouldn't win.

[.:hanbox3r]

The first such term I'd ever heard was "oreo". Not sure if there are older terms like that, but maybe that started things rolling in a certain direction.

I've also heard things like that in local politics back home. Some people were called 'watermelons' because they professed Independence party allegiance (green), but always voted for the commonwealth party (red) so the statehood party wouldn't win.

My guess with the usage of food items, is that it they are so distant from the actual subject they are describing, that upon initially hearing it, a person would automatically associate it as a clever remark.

Or maybe Freud was wrong and the phallus is not in fact our central focus, but rather, food. :S

[KHANartist]

No, mostly they've just had enough of you. Just make it simple and be gone. You have nothing constructive to add here.

I`m sorry you feel that way. However, I really don`t see anything constructive in puerile name-calling.

[Scowl]

a pretty common occurrence (in my neck of the woods) is "egg"... white guy who's yellow on the inside. So, the theory of all racial traitor terms being sweet tasting is disproved - but you do have something on the topic of them being food items.

I dunno about the "egg" thing, I don't think there is such a thing as a white person who is yellow on the inside.

[theme]

Why would there be an oreo, a twinkie, a wigger, but not an egg?

Of course there are such things as 'eggs'. Just because you mostly hear of Asians wanting to be whites doesn't mean that there aren't whites who want to be Asian. They may have different reasons than Twinkies for wanting it but the result is the same.

[Scowl]

I don't think there are "wiggers" in the truest sense, either. I just don't think that white people would ever truly want to be anything other than white.

Sure, you've got the "I should have been born Japanese" losers, but in them I see fetishization taken to an extreme rather than a real desire to give up their whiteness. They don't want to get past the exotic fantasy. You've also got all the white people who say, "It's better to be black than it is to be white in this country," but does anyone really think that any of them would actually turn black if given the chance?

Perhaps I should amend my position and say that I don't think that terms like "wigger" and "egg" have the same meaning for whites as terms like oreo/coconut/twinkie, etc. have for people of color.

[nottyboy]

Perhaps I should amend my position and say that I don't think that terms like "wigger" and "egg" have the same meaning for whites as terms like oreo/coconut/twinkie, etc. have for people of color.

I could see how a "wigger" type would want to adopt only those aspects of black culture, or at least pop-culture, that are considered cool without having to live the whole experience as a black person would.

[Kuroyama]

At my last job there was a white guy who maintains his Native American heritage is strong. He had been Military Police prior to coming to that job and we often disagreed strongly about the role of authority and its misuse in the US.

During one disagreement in a lunchroom full of people he took me to task in a loud voice so everyone could hear: "Have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been a policeman? You have NO WAY of knowing what those people go through!! Who are YOU to judge their actions in decisions involving race??"

I replied: "...Have you ever been Black?"

Argument was over. the room went from being a yuppielike lunchroom to Showtime at the Apollo with people falling out of chairs and riotous laughter. I dont recall ever winning an argument so satisfactorily in recent history. To this day its the battle cry of one of my South Viet friends... " Hey brothaman! Have you ever been Black??!"

To back whats been said by notty and Scowl... I agree that anyone not-of-color fetishizing another race does so from a safe distance and that it is quite unlikely that any one of them would actually play for the other team if it could magically be arranged.