Deciding not to have children. Anyone? Other than me?

[theme]

So I decided a very long time ago that I don't want to have children. I think I must have been around 12 or 13 when I thought that having children was unnecessary. I'm not even looking to get married.

What I would actually like to do is enjoy my life as a bachelor, hang out with friends and family, and be there for my parents in their old age. For some reason the thought of that brings me a great deal of joy.

The other reason though, and it's kind of hard for me to admit this, is because I can't quite put a context in which to raise my kids. I suppose I don't want to have a son because I don't want to put him through the shit I've went through, and I don't want to have a daughter because I feel like I'm contributing to the problem of IR. Yeah, it's kind of a serious issue with me.

Has any of this crossed your minds? I know some of you must be married and have kids already, but for those who are bachelors or bachelorettes-have you pushed to the wayside the thought of having children?

[cattygurl]

Not having biological kids. At one point, I was open to adoption but that's becoming less and less likely, and is virtually nil at this point.

I don't want to have a daughter because I feel like I'm contributing to the problem of IR

Are you assuming that if you have a daughter, she's destined to be in an IR?

Anyhoo, back to the original topic. Not wanting kids definitely reduces your opportunity for long-term relationships, especially as you get older. It's a dealbreaker- not wanting kids- for a lot of people- both men and women. I make my position on this matter very clear and well known. What I can't stand are people that assume that I'll change my mind. On the flipside, I can't stand people that are dishonest about this particular topic. You want or don't want kids- be honest and upfront about it. Don't lie or hem and haw and keep people stringing along for your convenience.

[Vahz]

I've always wanted kids, at least 2 because I don't want a single child family where he/she ends up being spoiled such as myself. However, I'm going to tell my future wife that she must have kids, it's her womb and she has a choice.

However, I agree with Catty that it's not likely for me to be with a woman that doesn't want kids in the first place.

[theme]

I've always wanted kids, at least 2 because I don't want a single child family where he/she ends up being spoiled such as myself. However, I'm going to tell my future wife that she must have kids, it's her womb and she has a choice.


Yah, tell me how that works out.

[Vahz]

Oh, shit. I left out a word.

It should read:

However, I'm *not* going to tell my future wife that she must have kids, it's her womb and she has a choice.

[theme]

Not having biological kids. At one point, I was open to adoption but that's becoming less and less likely, and is virtually nil at this point.


What's changed?


Are you assuming that if you have a daughter, she's destined to be in an IR?

Anyhoo, back to the original topic. Not wanting kids definitely reduces your opportunity for long-term relationships, especially as you get older. It's a dealbreaker- not wanting kids- for a lot of people- both men and women. I make my position on this matter very clear and well known. What I can't stand are people that assume that I'll change my mind. On the flipside, I can't stand people that are dishonest about this particular topic. You want or don't want kids- be honest and upfront about it. Don't lie or hem and haw and keep people stringing along for your convenience.

Yeah, I think it's reasonable to assume that she'll end up prefering Whites to Asians regardless of how I raise her. Of course I wouldn't try to raise her to 'prefer' anything but secretly I wish that she would date a nice tall Asian boy.
:D

And I feel ya on how not wanting kids might deter prospects in one's social life. I've shushed a few girls away because I'm unwilling to take the relationship to the next level. There's no point to it.

Adoption seems like a great option though. I've never given it enough consideration. I might actually do that some day.

[atlasien]

I just want to note, in case the discussion continues in this direction, that adoption isn't easier than having biological children and adoptees aren't "as ifs" or "kids lite". They already have a family history when they come to you, you have to respect that, and you have to make a commitment to a long-term relationship with a genetic stranger that is going to last the rest of both of your lives.

[cattygurl]

What's changed?

I love older kids, especially teens. Never was good with babies. As I grow older, I'm less and less interested in parenting. I'm on the edge with fostering kids. If finances and time allow it, I will consider being a foster parent. I love working with teens, and fostering might be a good match in that regard.

I just want to note, in case the discussion continues in this direction, that adoption isn't easier than having biological children and adoptees aren't "as ifs" or "kids lite". They already have a family history when they come to you, you have to respect that, and you have to make a commitment to a long-term relationship with a genetic stranger that is going to last the rest of both of your lives.

Great point. Adoption isn't an easier option. It can bring a lot of challenges to parenting. I was attracted to adoption over biological kids because for myself- I simply can't imagine having kids when there are children in need of homes. I can't have kids, but even if I could, I still wouldn't be having any.

it's not likely for me to be with a woman that doesn't want kids in the first place.

I respect that other people have different goals in life. I'd rather be with someone that has shared goals, not try to get someone to change their mind on my account. On the flip side, if I'm single for the rest of my life, it's not a big deal for me either. If having a relationship is paramount to your happiness- having dealbreakers such as "no children" can become burdensome for some. In my case, I've found it somewhat liberating- at least because I know any women my age that are trying to find husbands and fathers in a short time due to their biological clock/wanting their own kids. I find that my decision does free me from the presure of the biological clock. More people- both men and women- don't want kids, so at least you have a better chance for someone compatible then say- 20 years ago.

[jaehwan]

So I decided a very long time ago that I don't want to have children. I think I must have been around 12 or 13 when I thought that having children was unnecessary. I'm not even looking to get married.

What I would actually like to do is enjoy my life as a bachelor, hang out with friends and family, and be there for my parents in their old age. For some reason the thought of that brings me a great deal of joy.

I have a son who is ten months old. He's the greatest thing in the world, and I love him like crazy. I wouldn't exchange him for anything else.

But with that being said, I don't think children are for everyone. Raising children takes a lot of work, and no matter how you look at it in this day, age, and place, they are a financial drain. If you enjoy your life as a bachelor, I say more power to you. Not having children will definitely give you more time to spend with others, both in and outside your family.

The other reason though, and it's kind of hard for me to admit this, is because I can't quite put a context in which to raise my kids. I suppose I don't want to have a son because I don't want to put him through the shit I've went through, and I don't want to have a daughter because I feel like I'm contributing to the problem of IR. Yeah, it's kind of a serious issue with me.


Well, I can see this too. If this is truly a serious inquiry, my response would be this:

Son: Every race and group has its own hill to climb. Whether you're poor, white, black, green, or grey, the men of your group will face problems based on their group identity. This is the case with everyone. Yes, Asian American men face difficulties. But people have always risen above these difficulties, and your son will be no different.

Daughter: You can't choose your daughter's partner. You have to go along with whatever she chooses. But remember that there will be more to your relationship with your daughter than who she chooses to marry.

[theme]

Thanks jaehwan for the wise words.

I've still pretty much made up my mind, can't really imagine ever going back on it.

[Pat the Great]

i think it's kind of fucked up how, in this thread, the main thing we worry ourselves about with our daughters is who they have sex with.

[theme]

i think it's kind of fucked up how, in this thread, the main thing we worry ourselves about with our daughters is who they have sex with.

Who says that's the main thing?

[Scowl]

i think it's kind of fucked up how, in this thread, the main thing we worry ourselves about with our daughters is who they have sex with.

That's pretty much how it is with fathers in general, though, isn't it?

[atlasien]

That's pretty much how it is with fathers in general, though, isn't it?

With bad fathers in general.

[jaehwan]

With bad fathers in general.

No, I'd say it's the case with the vast majority of fathers. I don't have a girl, but I've yet to meet a father who isn't concerned about protecting the "purity" of his daughter.

[atlasien]

True. But any father who thinks that that's the single most important thing about their daughter is wacked. That's treating their daughter like a walking vagina to be locked up, not a human being.

I've had my issues with my own dad, but he never, ever thought that controlling my sexuality was his number one priority. Whew!

[theme]

That doesn't mean he's a bad father.

[jaehwan]

True. But any father who thinks that that's the single most important thing about their daughter is wacked. That's treating their daughter like a walking vagina to be locked up, not a human being.

I've had my issues with my own dad, but he never, ever thought that controlling my sexuality was his number one priority. Whew!

The original post said, "the main thing we worry ourselves about with our daughters is who they have sex with."

There's a world of difference between "worry" and thinking that sexuality is the "single most important thing about their daughter." The two ideas have absolutely nothing in common with one another.

No offense, but you seem to jump the gun a lot when it comes to accusing men of things we didn't do or didn't say. I'm not offended or anything, but I am interested in hearing why you think the way you do. You must have your reasons. Maybe you can tell us (maybe this belongs in another thread?)?

[Pat the Great]

dude, the only reasons you need are mentioned in this thread. look at what people are talking about when it comes to the "problems" of having a daughter.

[atlasien]

I'm not offended or anything, but I am interested in hearing why you think the way you do. You must have your reasons. Maybe you can tell us (maybe this belongs in another thread?)?

Very simple and I am not interested in starting another thread with a feminism 101 explanation. Anyone who is interested can go to this link (http://finallyfeminism101.blogspot.com/). All I'm doing is essentially agreeing with the comment that Pat the Great made earlier.

[jaehwan]

Very simple and I am not interested in starting another thread with a feminism 101 explanation. Anyone who is interested can go to this link (http://finallyfeminism101.blogspot.com/). All I'm doing is essentially agreeing with the comment that Pat the Great made earlier.

So you admit you have a hair-trigger response to issues regarding men?

You're not "essentially agreeing" with Pat's comment. You're embellishing Pat's comment ("most important thing about their daughter") and then you're agreeing with your new creation. There's nothing wrong with having your opinion, but if you're going to have a constructive conversation or try to convince people of your viewpoint, on this thread or any other, I think it makes sense to invest the time in understanding what people are really saying.

Just my humble opinion.

dude, the only reasons you need are mentioned in this thread. look at what people are talking about when it comes to the "problems" of having a daughter.

Only one person brought it up. No one agreed (or disagreed) with him, though some people, including you and me, questioned the statement. If you look at my first post in this thread, I agreed with you that there is more to the relationship than just who your daughter marries. Theme, the original poster, also agrees with us. It's not an issue for me, but I can understand how it might be an issue for others, so I wouldn't dog someone over it.

That being said, I still think having a hair-trigger response to issues of feminism or any other -ism is a bad thing. It just doesn't help anyone, and I don't think it's right to attack people ("bad fathers") for unwarranted reasons.

[cattygurl]

No, I'd say it's the case with the vast majority of fathers. I don't have a girl, but I've yet to meet a father who isn't concerned about protecting the "purity" of his daughter.

If my dad ever worried, he never showed it. All he ever said was that it's my body and it's my life, so make the smartest choice you can. He didn't like some of my boyfriends, but he never made a huge stink out of it. He essentially figured my life- my decision. In that regard, he was much, much better than my mom.

Honestly, guys that are *too* concerned with protecting the "purity" of their daughter- aside from the obvious desire for their daughter not to be in harmful situations like rape, etc- have issues. does that mean that they're bad fathers in general? No. It just means they have problems in that area that could possible cause problems in other areas.

[atlasien]

That being said, I still think having a hair-trigger response to issues of feminism or any other -ism is a bad thing. It just doesn't help anyone, and I don't think it's right to attack people ("bad fathers") for unwarranted reasons.

Duly noted and duly ignored. I have zero interest in responding to the "angry woman, don't be so angry" approach, just as I have zero interest in responding to the "why are you Asians so angry, aren't you the model minority" approach. 5% of the time I could educate someone, the other 95% they're not interested in listening so my effort is wasted.

I already ignore a lot of sexist B.S. so I'm certainly not going to jump back from complaining about the worst of it at times. Wanting to control your daughter's sexuality should not be "normal" in any way. Worrying about their self-esteem, their sexual health, wanting them to be in a solid relationship, all of that, totally fine, but when controlling their sexuality turns into their number one priority I have no problem saying they're a bad father for doing that. For the ultimate expression of that patriarchal crap, check out this stuff on purity balls (http://pandagon.net/2006/11/08/insert-tasteless-joke-about-daddys-little-girl/) and integrity balls (http://pandagon.net/2007/01/24/intergrity-is-knowing-how-much-to-pay-for-that-woman-object-on-the-market).

[cattygurl]

Fuck, I need to stop posting. I haven't been getting much sleep, and my terible posts are mushy mouthed and not to the point. Thanks atlasien- your post is much, much better. Please ignore mine.

[theme]

I'll just stay out of it.

[jaehwan]

Duly noted and duly ignored. I have zero interest in responding to the "angry woman, don't be so angry" approach, just as I have zero interest in responding to the "why are you Asians so angry, aren't you the model minority" approach. 5% of the time I could educate someone, the other 95% they're not interested in listening so my effort is wasted.

I already ignore a lot of sexist B.S. so I'm certainly not going to jump back from complaining about the worst of it at times. Wanting to control your daughter's sexuality should not be "normal" in any way. Worrying about their self-esteem, their sexual health, wanting them to be in a solid relationship, all of that, totally fine, but when controlling their sexuality turns into their number one priority I have no problem saying they're a bad father for doing that. For the ultimate expression of that patriarchal crap, check out this stuff on purity balls (http://pandagon.net/2006/11/08/insert-tasteless-joke-about-daddys-little-girl/) and integrity balls (http://pandagon.net/2007/01/24/intergrity-is-knowing-how-much-to-pay-for-that-woman-object-on-the-market).

Non-sequitur.

The bottom line is if you can't logically explain why caring about who your daughter sleeps with makes a man a "bad father," then you shouldn't be throwing accusations around. As Scowl said, most fathers care. And I actually think fathers who care are better than those who don't. If you disagree, tell us why. But don't introduce statements like "wanting to control your daughter's sexuality" and don't bring up websites that talk about purity balls because it obviously has nothing to do with any of the people here.

I don't agree with your method. Throwing a hissy fit with a bunch of non-sequiturs because someone disagrees with you is pointless. I personally don't mind it when people ask, "Why are you Asians so angry?" It gives me an opportunity to tell them. But that's just me.

Honestly, guys that are *too* concerned with protecting the "purity" of their daughter- aside from the obvious desire for their daughter not to be in harmful situations like rape, etc- have issues. does that mean that they're bad fathers in general? No. It just means they have problems in that area that could possible cause problems in other areas.

I'd agree with that.

[cattygurl]

The bottom line is if you can't logically explain why caring about who your daughter sleeps with makes a man a "bad father," then you shouldn't be throwing accusations around. As Scowl said, most fathers care. And I actually think fathers who care are better than those who don't. If you disagree, tell us why. But don't introduce statements like "wanting to control your daughter's sexuality" and don't bring up websites that talk about purity balls because it obviously has nothing to do with any of the people here.

I agree that fathers that care about the well-being of their daughter is a positive thing.

The problem, if there is one, lies in the reasoning for their concern and the context of such concerns.

Many fathers are wrongly concerned about their daughter's purity, and it crosses race and culture. The issue is that a lot of men make a stink about maintaining purity for their daughter, while ignoring their son's sexual activity, or even taking pride in it. This is not a rare phenomenon- it's as common as day. Such ideals or behavior is sexist and harmful for both genders- and there's really no way around defending it. If a parent wants to enforce "purity" in their children, I don't have an issue with that. I think it's not unreasonable to say that it should be emphasized for both sexes equally in an even-handed manner, not just the women as is often the case. I agree that fathers that care about the well-being of their daughter is a positive thing. All parents to a degree have some expectation regarding their children's lives and future. That said, in most discourse with men on this particular subject, there is very much a virginal fetish that men have (I'm not saying that you do, this is just a generalization) that is very sexist, and a lot of their reasoning come from the lack of acceptance that their daughter have as much sexual license and control as a man would. Many ARE uncomfortable with the bottom line that women have sexual rights, ability, license, etc that, at the end of the day, is her own and equal to anyone else regardless of gender.

So, if you are equally vested in your children's sexual health in a non-sexist and even-handed manner- then there's nothing to get upset about. In fact, I encourage you to speak out on your views. However, it's undeniable that there is more vested interest in people wanting to control women's autonomy (because it is an autonomy issue), and to also say that many people, when speaking of purity, often demand it from women more than men.

Bottom line:

As a parent, you want your kids to be in happy, healthy relationships- but I do think it's unhealthy for parents to feel a need to focus on, control, dictate or shape their daughter's sexuality any more than they would with their son. It should be of equal concern.

Also: The pressure of purity isn't enforced just by men- it's also enforced by mothers and other women as well. Just as not all colored folks are against racism, not all women are against sexism. The colored folks that may defend racist ideals (like Clarence Thomas) don't give any credibility to the racists, just like women that defend the sexist ideals (like Phyllis Schafly) don't give credibility to the sexists.

So could you be a good father and be sexist? In some ways- sure- in that there will never be a perfect parent. Does it means that sexism has any place in parenting? No, it should be something that we should strive to address and eliminate.

[averagejoette]

I think purity is a huge issues in certain countries, but its not a really big issue in the US from what I've experienced and people I've encountered. The only reason its an issue is because its a female's worth that is traditionally linked with her virginity (which IMO, is totally wrong). Fathers are protective of their daughters, but if her virginity is the only aspect he is protective of, then there is definitely a problem.

But back to the whole having kids part...no. I never plan on having children. I think I would make a horrible mother, and same children take advantage of my nice-ness. It doesn't mean I don't like children. I think they're cute in 30 min intervals only, with an hour break in between.

[Ike]

Not a response to any post in particular, but has anyone considered donating eggs?

[theme]

I agree that fathers that care about the well-being of their daughter is a positive thing.

The problem, if there is one, lies in the reasoning for their concern and the context of such concerns.

Many fathers are wrongly concerned about their daughter's purity, and it crosses race and culture. The issue is that a lot of men make a stink about maintaining purity for their daughter, while ignoring their son's sexual activity, or even taking pride in it. This is not a rare phenomenon- it's as common as day. Such ideals or behavior is sexist and harmful for both genders- and there's really no way around defending it. If a parent wants to enforce "purity" in their children, I don't have an issue with that. I think it's not unreasonable to say that it should be emphasized for both sexes equally in an even-handed manner, not just the women as is often the case. I agree that fathers that care about the well-being of their daughter is a positive thing. All parents to a degree have some expectation regarding their children's lives and future. That said, in most discourse with men on this particular subject, there is very much a virginal fetish that men have (I'm not saying that you do, this is just a generalization) that is very sexist, and a lot of their reasoning come from the lack of acceptance that their daughter have as much sexual license and control as a man would. Many ARE uncomfortable with the bottom line that women have sexual rights, ability, license, etc that, at the end of the day, is her own and equal to anyone else regardless of gender.

So, if you are equally vested in your children's sexual health in a non-sexist and even-handed manner- then there's nothing to get upset about. In fact, I encourage you to speak out on your views. However, it's undeniable that there is more vested interest in people wanting to control women's autonomy (because it is an autonomy issue), and to also say that many people, when speaking of purity, often demand it from women more than men.



Actually, I don't think anyone here was saying that they wanted to control their daughter's sexuality. Both Scowl and jaehwan were expressing how as fathers, one of their big worries is about their daughter's sexuality. What that actually means can but interpreted in different ways(they never elaborated on this so I don't see how atlasien can say the things she does) but atlasien chose to interpreted it as an afront to feminism.

You can actually go to the very first page where jaehwan explicitly says that as a father you can't choose your daughter's partner but you have to go along with whatever choice she makes.

In an absolutely unequivocal sense jaehwan has expressed the very same idea that you and atlasien are trying to ram down his throat.

Like jaehwan, I really don't understand atlasien. She twisted the issue to make it sound like it's an attack on feminism. Since this isn't the first time she's behaved like this I'm inclined to think that she likes to jump the gun whenever the topic of sexuality and women comes up. I can certainly understand the frustration he feels whenever atlasien and he butt heads, and it doesn't help that everytime they do feminism is brought up in the wrong context to rebut a point of view that no one subscribes to.

[cattygurl]

I think there's a huge difference between making people aware of the social construct- and enforcing the said construct.

When it comes down to rumors, people use the slut-shaming tactics in various ways to bring people down. You see it in high school, you even see it in the workplace. Trying to bring up children that are aware and respectful is a life-long process that can often force the parents to change their long-held behaviors. It doesn't simply come about from just telling both your sons and daughters the same thing, and feeling that your job is done.

I went to four different high schools. In every high school, there's the school slut. In every case,the lable was placed on both of them for pissing off the wrong people. There were girls that WERE having way more sex than they were and didn't get slapped with that label. Being the school slut had less to do with sexual activity and more to do with how they presente d themselves, who they pissed off, etc. I also know my friend's girlfriend (now wife) got harrassed during an especially down and dirty promotion war. Her and several people were up for a major promotion to a sweet position with a major pay raise, and things were getting really sick. Apparently, someone had left a picture of what could be her (grainy image) having sex with a guy in the men's bathroom at the workplace. A colleague of hers retrieved it for her, and she showed it to me. We both could tell it wasn't her because she has a port wine stain as well as large scars from a car accident on her torso- but in passing, it did resemble her enough that the tactic was pretty undeniable. Since nobody fessed up and the perp wasn't caught- there was no-one to reprimand. Either way, she got the promotion but now, the rumor was that she got the promotion because of that incident (as a consolation), she got the position because she slept with the boss (she's a slut now, right? And her boss was an out lesbian), and even that she posted the picture herself (why the fuck would she do that). She stuck through the job and she's now the head of marketing, because she managed from early on in the career to distinguish herself as a very capable and motivated woman- and she also was fortunate enough not to have backward superiors that were swayed by this type of thing (they cared about the bottom line and she produced like a motherfucker). She also kept a good attitude throughout the whole thing.

Fundamentally, the fact remains that a lot of people might give lip service to this issue by saying that they aren't sexist bastards when in reality, they ARE, and this goes for both men and women.

The bottom line is that slut-shaming is a tactic that's used REGARDLESS of your sexual activity, esp. compared to others.

Promoting an environment of purity for one gender over another also promotes the idea that one's sexuality is other people's business, that one's value is based on it. Specifically- as you mentioned, women are devalued for their sexuality while it doesn't negatively affect men or even helps them in some regard. Raising kids under that frameowrk improperly raises them up to be people that promote the double standard.

The question you have to ask yourself if- do you feel that's wrong, and do you want your children to perpetuate that mindset? If you don't, what can you do to counter that? ONE of the things- and it's one of many- you can do is to be even-handed in terms of what you expect from both your son and daughter- or if you just have a son or daughter- to not buy into that mentality and speak up against it. So yes, it's very important to take into account that there IS the slut-shaming/stud-promoting mentality into acount and raise kids to be aware of it, because if they aren't, they can't challenge in when they come across it in their life. In order to do that, you really have to examine your attitude and beliefs as parents in this regard and make changes so that you don't just give lip service and confusing messages.

You raise your kids to have good self-esteem, confidence, and an active and curious mind. You raise them to think things through and have respect for themselves and others. I can say that I haven't always made the best choices, but I don't regret them because I learn from them. People are less likely to move on and learn from something when they feel excessive shame over an issue. It tends to turn into denial. If you do raise your children without the social noose around their neck, they're less likely to hang themselves with it, they're less likely to hang others using it, and they're less likely to be hung by others that will try.

[awong]

maybe I dont know if I want kids, I just dont want my kids to turn out like my cousin's kids, who are little brats

[warpeaceandfashion]

Don't and never wanted kids. Maybe adopting but than I don't want to raise them. Lol. I'll send my adopted child to British boarding school. She'll probably turned up messed up because of lack of parental guidance.

[ellencho]

I want kids just in case there's a famine sometime in the future. If food runs out, then my pets and I will still be able to eat.

[jaehwan]

I want kids just in case there's a famine sometime in the future. If food runs out, then my pets and I will still be able to eat.

Good answer!

So yes, it's very important to take into account that there IS the slut-shaming/stud-promoting mentality into acount and raise kids to be aware of it, because if they aren't, they can't challenge in when they come across it in their life. In order to do that, you really have to examine your attitude and beliefs as parents in this regard and make changes so that you don't just give lip service and confusing messages.

Catty,

I agree with just about everything you said, but aren't we talking about two different things? Slut-shaming seems to be based on lying. Remove the dishonesty, and it seems you would remove the problem. I'm not sure about stud-promoting. These days, with all the diseases and stuff floating around, I wouldn't recommend that any father tell his son to sleep around.

I will say that that slut-shaming thing is beyond wrong. I've been fortunate not to have known many instances in my own life when that has happened (or maybe I was such a geek that no one let me in on the rumors). I would think that the vast majority of parents do not teach their sons to act that way. In the case of your friend, I would say that it was clearly wrong, that there really wasn't anything she could have done to prevent it, and that her case goes way beyond the social construct since the whole thing is based on a lie.

I don't know whether this construct will ever change. I know Princess Di seriously challenged it, but the rules are different when you're a princess married to a louse. The rules are also probably different in Europe too. It seems to me that most likely the stigma will disappear in the world of entertainment, as it already has to a large degree, and it will disappear entirely among artists, intellectuals, and other free spirits. Most likely it will continue everywhere else. Think about Paris Hilton. She probably faced a lot less stigma after her video surfaced mostly because she became a wild and wacky entertainer. No one cared about Simone de Beauvoir's sex life because she was an intellectual free spirit. Company women, politicians, and all other women involved in other areas of society aren't so fortunate.

Equality is really a difficult concept. People like equality as a concept, but it truly is harder than just trying to be equal. I have a boy, and I know that I would raise him differently if he were a girl. I read this excellent book on how to raise boys, and it just seems to me that being totally the same with sons and daughters is impossible (and I know you didn't say this; I'm just saying that raising kids is a really complex issue when it comes to gender issues.)

So I don't really know what the answer is.

[Ike]

Slut-shaming, while not ALWAYS based on lying, IS based on the fact that society ostracizes women for being extremely sexually active while congratulating men for the same thing.

Just re-iterating what Catty said.

[Hadouken]

Slut-shaming, while not ALWAYS based on lying, IS based on the fact that society ostracizes women for being extremely sexually active while congratulating men for the same thing.

Just re-iterating what Catty said.

Excellent posts by everyone. Maybe I'm being a bit cynical, here, but given how human society's been dominated by patriarchal structures throughout history, male sexism is about as old and commonplace as racism. So I think a lot of our thoughts on how we raise our children is heavily influenced, even subconsciously, by society's norms, even if a lot of its ideas are outdated. Thinking you're not sexist can be as futile as thinking you're not racist.

That aside, I think there's a lot of misinterpretation here. It's perfectly natural for a parent to want certain things for his/her children. What makes a good parent is how far he/she goes to turn those wants into reality (in other words, taking over and running their children's lives). A good parent knows when it's time to step back and let them make their own decisions. Getting involved with your children's sex life is, IMO, way too overly protective (of course, assuming that all your kids have reached adult stage).

[Hadouken]

So I decided a very long time ago that I don't want to have children. I think I must have been around 12 or 13 when I thought that having children was unnecessary. I'm not even looking to get married.

What I would actually like to do is enjoy my life as a bachelor, hang out with friends and family, and be there for my parents in their old age. For some reason the thought of that brings me a great deal of joy.

The other reason though, and it's kind of hard for me to admit this, is because I can't quite put a context in which to raise my kids. I suppose I don't want to have a son because I don't want to put him through the shit I've went through, and I don't want to have a daughter because I feel like I'm contributing to the problem of IR. Yeah, it's kind of a serious issue with me.

Has any of this crossed your minds? I know some of you must be married and have kids already, but for those who are bachelors or bachelorettes-have you pushed to the wayside the thought of having children?

Sorry, I think I'm contributing to that tangent that popped up in that other post. You know, I used to think sorta like you do, but now that I'm nearing 30, I'm really having second thoughts. The idea of having children is becoming less of a horror to me and more like a curiosity. It's funny that you're already sounding quite protective of the kids you don't have. But that's good, I think. Everybody should go through this process before having kids, and if they don't want the responsibility then they shouldn't. Personally, my hesitation stems from the fear that I might fuck it up royally and unleash another fucked up person on society. Do you ever think about what you might miss out on, though? I do. After all, having children is taking a risk (although a huge one), like everything else in life. But I don't want to miss out on such a big part of life's experience because of the fear, especially when that experience is always (hopefully) shared with that most important person in your life. It's like you can (and will) get hurt by women, but does that mean you should avoid relationships to avoid that risk?

[theme]

Sorry, I think I'm contributing to that tangent that popped up in that other post. You know, I used to think sorta like you do, but now that I'm nearing 30, I'm really having second thoughts. The idea of having children is becoming less of a horror to me and more like a curiosity. It's funny that you're already sounding quite protective of the kids you don't have. But that's good, I think. Everybody should go through this process before having kids, and if they don't want the responsibility then they shouldn't. Personally, my hesitation stems from the fear that I might fuck it up royally and unleash another fucked up person on society. Do you ever think about what you might miss out on, though? I do. After all, having children is taking a risk (although a huge one), like everything else in life. But I don't want to miss out on such a big part of life's experience because of the fear, especially when that experience is always (hopefully) shared with that most important person in your life. It's like you can (and will) get hurt by women, but does that mean you should avoid relationships to avoid that risk?

I never thought that having kids was that important. My mom has always wanted me to have kids but my sister already has two with her Vietnamese husband so I don't feel that much pressure to start a family of my own. Like I already said, I'd much prefer to take care of my parents in their old age then having to take care of kids and the parents simultaneously.

I don't think having kids for shits and giggles is the right frame of mind when starting a family so it's unlikely that I'll ever regret my decision. A lot of people bring children into the world without even considering what kind of world they are born into. I don't want to bring an Asian son or an Asian daughter into this world because politically and socially it disturbs me.

[Le Sheng Liu]

I have never wanted children and probably never will.

[Ike]

Oh noes! What are we going to do? All the *intelligent*, *socially conscious* Asian-Americans don't want to have kids! Now the next generation is going to be stuck with a bunch of self-hating, white-identifying hapas with CCB mothers and racist fathers!

[LowFrequency]

Reproduce you lazy bastards.

[theme]

Oh noes! What are we going to do? All the *intelligent*, *socially conscious* Asian-Americans don't want to have kids! Now the next generation is going to be stuck with a bunch of self-hating, white-identifying hapas with CCB mothers and racist fathers!

Considering the many ridiculous reasons I've seen people have for wanting children I think NOT having them for the aforementioned reasons is good reason enough. Imagine having kids cause you want to collect child benefits, blackmailing, or because you want kids with pailer skin and epicanthic foldless eyes?

If I can't see the joy in having children then there is no point in having them.