The Dalai Lama

[lycheng]

The Tibet resettlement thread made me think about the role the Dalai Lama in western media. Here's a guy who's just a spiritual leader of a particular form of Buddhism, however, he's become the default face of Asian spirituality.

How did this happen? Was it his charisma? Was it his English ability? Or is it a way for the west to thumb their noses at China?

I've read one of his books (the one on Ethics), and liked what he has to say. He also seems to be a genuinely friendly and generous person. But he often mixes politics with religion, which I think isn't a good thing.

Any comments?

lycheng

[kimtae]

Tibetan Lama Buddhism is as twisted and perverted as any form of Western religion. I don't think it's anything in line with what the Buddha had in mind. Kind of like the Catholics to Christ.

[Anansasem]

He was just in my city a few days ago. I should have seen him then, though he seems to come here almost annually and I've already went to his seminars twice.

Though, I did see a few 'Monks' in their orange and red 'robes' buying cakes at the local groceries. By the way, these guys were big. Asians may be thought to be short though I remember one of the men had to duck to get through the automatic door.

[Hater Depot]

I think there are few other religous leaders the western media like. The Pope usually gets pretty good press, mainly because he's inarguably damned important. Other than him really, who is there? Very few in the west care about Eastern Orthodox popes (do they have popes?). American Protestantism is so fractured and leaders who emerge from it to media fame are generally hucksters and self-promoters and aren't well-regarded by mainstream media.

I think the Lama has the right mix of charisma and cute chubbiness, plus he rode the wave of buddhism-trendiness well. I can't fault him for mixing in politics with his message considering the situation he faces at home. He's not involved in politics in anything resembling the way people like Pat Robertson, attempting to impose beliefs through law. Though I do wonder what ordinary Tibetans think about him and the whole situation.

[cattygurl]

Buddhism can be very much as corrupt as any religion can be- I'll point to a lot of "Buddhists" in Japan as an example, my own cousin included ( a monk, BTW).

Buddhism merged and incorporated many pagan religions in whatever country they spread to- and as a result, the variety is quite diverse. The Tibetan form of Buddhism has a lot of remnants of Tibetan mysticism/paganism incorporated. The way Buddhism incorporated the pagan traditions of China, Japan, Tibet, etc is somewhat similar to the Voudou/Santeria adaptation of Catholicism. Each form of Buddhism has a lot of differences as a result- similar to Santeria and Voudou, while both incorporating Catholicism, are different religions (with some similarties-just like the different Branches of Buddhism)- although people tend to bunch them all into one category.

Dalai Lama only speaks for Tibetan Buddhists as their leader (just like the Pope speaks for Catholics only, not for Christians at large). What I don't like is the DL being a representaive of ALL buddhism- which he isn't. He's just the most famous face of Buddhism in the West.

I do like some of the things he has to say- and he doesn't mix politics in a way that Pat Robertson or the evangelical/Catholics do in this country. I do think Tibetan Buddhism- as with any religion- has potential for corruption. Is it as corrupt and political as the Vatican? I have no idea, because I have not studied that aspect of Tibetan Buddhism. That said, the Vatican has far more power and influence than the DL could ever hope to have. Buddhists, let alone Tibetan Buddhists, do not have their version of the Holy See @ the UN and does not go about rummaging about in world affairs with the influence that the Catholics have. The Pope is very much involved in politics, and travels all over the world to spread THEIR version of dogma into the country's LAW. One of the major rerasons for visiting Brazil for Rattie is to stifle the call for legalization of abortion in Brazil.

so, the DL puttering about asking for a "Free" Tibet- honestly- isn't really in the same scope as the Pope or even Pat Robertson, at least in the West. The West gives lip service and uses Tibet as a wheel of propaganda against China, but really hasn't done a damn thing to really actually help the Tibetans in any real way. Honestly, the only people that are honestly concerned about Tibet in a sincere way are Tibetans, for obvious reasons. The DL, being a Tibetan, has the right to do what he believes. It's just too bad that cause is used as fluff, rather than a real look at what's going on i Tibet with genuine concern.

I've met a few Tibetans in RL, and every one of them held the DL in high regard. That said, I would think Tibetans in the West would have a higher chance of that possibility.

[atlasien]

Hey cattygurl, slightly off topic, but what do you think of Soka Gakkai? Oddly enough, my Congressman Hank Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Johnson) is in it... and happens to be the very first Buddhist member of Congress (I don't think Mazie Hirono counts, she was raised in a Buddhist background but says she doesn't really practice it).

I have heard that the Soka Gakkai organization does good stuff, but there's a lot of secrecy surounding the power structure, where the money goes and the way they slam other kinds of Buddhists.

[Anansasem]

Here is a list of local links on the Dalai Lama's visit here:
http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?var_start_pos=0&var_is_start=1&var_ft=1&&var_articles_per_page=10&from_date_field=04%2F10%2F2007&to_date_field=05%2F10%2F2007&keyword_field=Dalai%20lama&pub_code_field=wsj+tct

It seems the general census is split between those who see him as a benevolent religious icon and those who see him as a thinly veiled politician with his own agenda. Personally, from what he's done in my area I'd have to agree with the former group. It's odd that he comes here so often, then again there is a fairly large Tibetan population here along with the Hmong and the artistic and open-mindedness of the people here may contribute. Check some of those links, most of the questions all of you have asked here have an answer in some form in one of those articles.

I was especially fascinated by the similarities drawn between him and Martin Luther King Jr., and once the parallels were shown to me I can't help but to agree.

[ZhuBaJie]

face it, his adoration in the Western media and public has much to do with Westerners' fascination with Oriental mysticism. simply put, he puts a human face to a religion that a lot of Westerners see as a peaceful and non-judgemental alternative to Christianity. of course, it helps that he has fans in the Hollywood elite.

[awong]

yeah gerbil man loves him

[Anansasem]

"The Dalai Lama commented in his opening remarks that some people who come to hear him speak expect to find some magical power. "I'm skeptical of that," he said. And besides, if he had such power, he'd be able to do away with a nagging skin irritation on the back of his neck, he laughed."

I don't think he gains attention for only such shallow reasons. His messages, "Compassion: The Source of Happiness," described how human beings have the intellectual capacity to cultivate the emotions they choose, so as to make their lives - and their world - happier." These are something people everywhere can resonate with, doubtless it's refreshing from the constant blame-wars that pervade most any other world icons.

[cattygurl]

Not a fan of Soka Gakkai. They're cultish if you ask me. I admit I have not done tons of research on them in the US- but in Japan, they're really politically active. They're like the 700 club of Japan- really heavily into the politics, and IMHO, not in a benevolent way.

[nskripchun]

Not a fan of Soka Gakkai. They're cultish if you ask me. I admit I have not done tons of research on them in the US- but in Japan, they're really politically active. They're like the 700 club of Japan- really heavily into the politics, and IMHO, not in a benevolent way.

Criticism of Soka Gakkai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soka_Gakkai#Critical_websites)

The history of Soka Gakkai is interesting, but from reading several articles about the organization, it seems like despite the original noble intentions of its founders, the modern incarnation has evolved into something quite different. One can argue that the same fate that befalls most large religious organizations in politics have befallen Soka Gakkai - corruption, abuse of followers, etc.

While the convergence of organized religion and government is nothing, I guess a question I might pose for the context of our discussion of the Dalai Lama:

Does the fact that the Dalai Lama engages in politics (Tibetan independence) an abuse of his religious beliefs, or is it merely the fulfillment of his religious beliefs?

After all, I'm pretty sure everybody would agree that human beings ought to have the right to pursue whatever spiritual path they feel convicted to follow, but where do we draw the lines that separate acceptable practice versus unacceptable practice, in terms of religion and politics?

[lycheng]

Does the fact that the Dalai Lama engages in politics (Tibetan independence) an abuse of his religious beliefs, or is it merely the fulfillment of his religious beliefs?

That's a good question. Does his religious beliefs include imposing theocratic rule in Tibet? I don't know enough about Tibetan Buddhism to answer that.

As someone who's opposed to people like Pat Robertson pushing their religious agenda into American government, shouldn't I be consistent when it comes to the Dalai Lama? Or should I minimize DL's role in trying to establish a theocracy in Tibet because he's fighting against an oppressive Chinese regime?

lycheng

[Hater Depot]

I don't have any problem with elected officials taking guidance from their faith, because isn't that what we all expect ourselves to do? Simialrly I also don't mind people becoming active for causes they support at least partly out of faith, as that includes people across the political spectrum and has included the anti-slavery and civil rights movements.

[kimtae]

Found this interesting article (http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html).
Some interesting parts.
In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops. Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet. Here is quite a historical irony: the first Dalai Lama was installed by a Chinese army. His two previous lama “incarnations” were then retroactively recognized as his predecessors, thereby transforming the first Dalai Lama into the third Dalai Lama.

To elevate his authority beyond worldly challenge, the first (a.k.a. third) Dalai Lama seized monasteries that did not belong to his sect, and is believed to have destroyed Buddhist writings that conflicted with his claim to divinity. The Dalai Lama who succeeded him pursued a sybaritic life, enjoying many mistresses, partying with friends, and acting in other ways deemed unfitting for an incarnate deity. For this he was done in by his priests. Within 170 years, despite their recognized status as gods, five Dalai Lamas were murdered by their high priests or other courtiers.
In the Dalai Lama’s Tibet, torture and mutilation—including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation—were favored punishments inflicted upon runaway serfs and thieves. Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: “When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion.”16 Since it was against Buddhist teachings to take human life, some offenders were severely lashed and then “left to God” in the freezing night to die. “The parallels between Tibet and medieval Europe are striking,” concludes Tom Grunfeld in his book on Tibet.17

In 1959, Anna Louise Strong visited an exhibition of torture equipment that had been used by the Tibetan overlords. There were handcuffs of all sizes, including small ones for children, and instruments for cutting off noses and ears, gouging out eyes, and breaking off hands. There were instruments for slicing off kneecaps and heels, or hamstringing legs. There were hot brands, whips, and special implements for disemboweling.18

The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master's cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who was raped and then had her nose sliced away.19

Early visitors to Tibet comment about the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under the “intolerable tyranny of monks” and the devil superstitions they had fashioned to terrorize the people. In 1904 Perceval Landon described the Dalai Lama’s rule as “an engine of oppression.” At about that time, another English traveler, Captain W.F.T. O’Connor, observed that “the great landowners and the priests . . . exercise each in their own dominion a despotic power from which there is no appeal,“ while the people are “oppressed by the most monstrous growth of monasticism and priest-craft.” Tibetan rulers “invented degrading legends and stimulated a spirit of superstition” among the common people. In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, “The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them….The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth.”20
In 1995, the News & Observer of Raleigh, North Carolina, carried a frontpage color photograph of the Dalai Lama being embraced by the reactionary Republican senator Jesse Helms, under the headline “Buddhist Captivates Hero of Religious Right.”39 In April 1999, along with Margaret Thatcher, Pope John Paul II, and the first George Bush, the Dalai Lama called upon the British government to release Augusto Pinochet, the former fascist dictator of Chile and a longtime CIA client who had been apprehended while visiting England. The Dalai Lama urged that Pinochet not be forced to go to Spain where he was wanted to stand trial for crimes against humanity.
To support the Chinese overthrow of the old feudal theocracy is not to applaud everything about Chinese rule in Tibet. This point is seldom understood by today’s Shangri-La adherents in the West.

The converse is also true. To denounce the Chinese occupation does not mean we have to romanticize the former feudal régime. One common complaint among Buddhist followers in the West is that Tibet’s religious culture is being undermined by the occupation. Indeed this seems to be the case. Many of the monasteries are closed, and the theocracy has passed into history. What I am questioning here is the supposedly admirable and pristinely spiritual nature of that pre-invasion culture. In short, we can advocate religious freedom and independence for Tibet without having to embrace the mythology of a Paradise Lost.

[minbo]

I'm not a fan of SGI. IMHO they are very cultish. For an interesting tidbit, I had read a detailed description of the Tokyo AUM Shinrikyo Sarin Gas attacks on March 20, IIRC, the incident where the station attendants took the gas packets out of the train and placed them into their office, the fellow who did the attack had wrapped his packets with a Soka Gakkai newspaper. He considered Soka Gakkai a competing cult and thought it was amusing to implicate them in the gas attacks. This was the first piece of evidence the police had to link this to a religious vs terrorist or other criminal act.

[cattygurl]

^^ HAHAHA I think i read that a long time ago in a japanese article somewhere. Man, Asahara was a hilarious nut, then he turned into a nutcase (well before the sarin gas attack, mind you).

[Dialectic]

For those interested, I've moved some discussion on this topic over here:
http://www.thefighting44s.com/forum/showthread.php?p=24927#post24927