Parenting rant

[vsoy]

I was at a work party this weekend and I was cornered by two colleagues who were also mothers. They were lamenting about the difficulty of raising kids with good values and respect for authority. One colleague mom is Chinese from Taiwan and married to a Caucasian male faculty (she's about as far away from being a CBB and he's not a 'phile) and the other mom is Caucasian.

As someone who doesn't have kids, it is too tempting to say, "Well, you just smack some sense into your kid when she's getting all uppity" when parents get together to commiserate.

Anyways, I thought the dilemma the Asian mom faced was interesting because it's something that 1.5 gen AA face when they raise kids. You've got the deep social programming that you were raised with, authority was not questioned and you did what you were told. But having grown up in western society, one may have some more lenient ideas about child rearing.

In school, the daughter was doing well in school but at home, she was getting all uppity with the mom who is the policeman in the family. The mom to her credit, lets her daughter voice her own opinion, but I think lets the daughter go too far when the daughter does not show the proper respect to the mom. When I hear stuff like this, I stiffen up and a rage comes over me and I wanna smack the kid or given them a good long lecture. But it's not my kid so I don't.

Anyways, this Asian mom was lamenting how her daughter says she's no fun because they don't do fun things, mom's always cleaning up or telling her to do chores. I never said anything like that to my mom but she has the perfect line to counter that complaint; "You think it's all about having fun and playing all day. Well, it's not like that" Damn, that's a real downer but reality. Those toys and socks don't get picked up by themselves. Food doesn't show up the table just like that. Yeah, you get money out of the ATM or credit card, but you got to put some money IN from your paycheck which you got because you studied hard in school and got a good job.

The other mom was lamenting how she knows she ought to give her kids chores but felt it was going to be a big battle, constantly nagging them to do their jobs. Yes, it will be a pain in the neck to get the kids to do their chores but they might learn how to do something and be a doer. I can tell which undergrads had jobs or chores when they work in the lab because they can figure out how to do things and solve problems. I had to show one how to load a dishwasher a couple of years ago. It was pretty sad. He didn't get much done that summer.

For me, I have zero tolerance for insubordinate children. I don't I'd spank them, maybe whip out the fearsome wooden ruler when they're really, really bad. I hope I'd be able to let the kid voice their point of view, provided it is in a reasonable tone (no whining or lack of respect).

[cattygurl]

I never took any bullshit from my goddaughters. I have some lenience on insubordination depending on what it is, but when it comes to the kid pulling their weight and being responsible, none at all.

Parenting is about being on your kid's ass all the time, making sure they do the right thing, avoid the wrong things, etc. If you don't wanna be a nag, don't be a parent.

[Vahz]

I was a pretty uppity kid until I gave my dad the Frenchman's Wave once when he asked me a question. He punched me like a man and from that point forward, I watched what I did and said.

[atlasien]

I have a somewhat divided perspective on this... my dad was strict for a Japanese father. It was probably because he grew up in a very traditional, rural environment. He also wasn't the custodial parent after I was 6. He always had these strict rules I was supposed to follow, and after a certain age (5) I just stopped obeying them. If I did, I would have gone nuts, because his rules were so arbitrary and bizarre. He used to give me negative feedback whenever I did anything bad and then more negative feedback when I did anything good. For the sake of my sanity I just stopped paying attention.

My mother was very permissive, but I always paid attention to her and did pretty much everything she told me to. The one rule she always enforced was... no whining.

The lesson I learned was that being strict is pointless unless you're strict in an effective, enforceable way.

I've heard recently about a popular parenting style called "Love and Logic". The basic principle is to use natural consequences for discipline. You want to avoid the two extremes of "drill sergeant" and "helicopter". Drill sergeants are always telling their kids exactly what to do; the kids will do it, but they don't know why they do it, so they grow to resent it. Helicopters hover over their kids and prevent them from making any bad move. Their kids are spoiled and don't understand that bad behavior leads to bad consequences once they enter the real world.

The single good thing I learned from my dad's style of parenting is not to rely too much on praise. Kids need positive feedback for good self-esteem, but when their parents go on autopilot and say "you're so great" and "you're so smart" every five minutes, it gets counterproductive. They start expecting praise for every little thing they do, instead of something special they worked hard at... and if they don't get praise right away, they give up. That's what drives me crazy about people at work sometimes. If you don't say "gooooooood jooob!" every now and then, they might sulk. I don't expect praise for regular, competent performance of job duties.

[Ike]

Whatever you do, go through with punishments, schedules, reward systems, etc. My parents didn't. They were the type who would ground me for a month and then three days later forget all about it. Kids need to learn to follow through and keep their word - or else they'll end up like me.

[kimtae]

For the Asian mom in Vsoy's post, too many parents try to be friends with their kids. Parents aren't supposed to be fun. They are supposed to be the authority. You can do things with your kids but never let them forget who the boss is. Take no insubordination.
For the White mom, Western society could learn a lot from the Old World's wisdom. Children today are too coddled. There is an old Russian saying. A child is not a jug. He will not break if you hit him.

[jaehwan]

My kid is only ten months old, but he doesn't listen to anything I say.

[Scowl]

My kid is only ten months old, but he doesn't listen to anything I say.

To that, I must say:

There is an old Russian saying. A child is not a jug. He will not break if you hit him.

[nskripchun]

^hahaha.

As a teacher in the public school system, it's pretty apparent right away which kids come from families where the parents care about them and discipline them to respect authority, and which kids don't.

On the whole, I've found most "Old World" / immigrant families usually have the better behaved kids. They ain't afraid to be tough, give them chores, and yes, spank 'em.

Reminds me of that Russel Peters stand-up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI

[Dirac]

As a teacher in the public school system, it's pretty apparent right away which kids come from families where the parents care about them and discipline them to respect authority, and which kids don't.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI


So true!

I was always so worried that the kids wouldn't like me, but I found when I disciplined them and was clear about where the boundaries were they actually liked me more.

[lopan]

For the Asian mom in Vsoy's post, too many parents try to be friends with their kids. Parents aren't supposed to be fun. They are supposed to be the authority. You can do things with your kids but never let them forget who the boss is. Take no insubordination.

Hear hear! It drives me nuts sometimes when I see moms who can't control their kids. Too often parents are trying to NEGOTIATE with their children. Children are not yet adults! They do NOT get a choice. You tell them, and they DO, because it's your job as their parent. For example, if you want your kids to eat their veggies at dinner, you TELL them to eat those veggies! you don't negotiate with them and tell them to "eat five more peas, and then you can go watch TV". The family is not a damned democracy, and kids do not get a vote.

I may come from the old school of parenting though (for the record, i'm not yet a dad). But if my time as a tutor is any indication, I'm going to be one hell of a disciplinarian. When i was in HK, i supported myself as a tutor to a priviledged, well to-do HK local in grade six. I taught her everything, and she was one of those spoiled, unruly kids. One day i just had it; she hadn't finished any of her homework that i'd given her and she didn't seem to retain anything that I'd taught her. Half an hour into our two hour session i just gave up. "That's it," i said. "If you're not going to come prepared and do the minute amount of homework that i'm giving you, then you are completely wasting my time. I'm out of here." at that moment i packed up all my things and headed to the door. My student's jaw had dropped; this had OBVIOUSLY never happened to her before by any of her tutors. "You can tell your mother that I left, and you can tell her WHY i left too. You can also tell her that if you're going to waste my time like this, then there's no point in me coming back." At that point, the kid burst into tears. She ran at me and started to claw at me as I opened the door and headed out.

Eventually I turned around and asked her what she wanted. I asked her if she was going to listen to me. And she said yes. I returned and finished our lesson. And i never had more problems with the kid since. :)

[Scowl]

I can tell that lopes plays "bottom" for no one!

[howstrange]

I had a lot of childhood friends from all sorts of backgrounds. The kids with strict parents, who spanked them, were the troublemakers that ended up doing fucked up things once they hit puberty. They kids that had kinder parents where usually the goodie goodie kids. just an observation...

[Lum]

It's a generational thing too. I used to work in a shop with another guy born in the 60's. We were exchanging stories about getting wacked by moms and laughing our asses off. The sales clerk I think was about 20 and heard every word. She was mortified.

Well I wouldn't suggest doing it now, duh.