My friend in college...

[Vahz]

...is taking a psychology course and he has decided to write his thesis paper on the whole interracial debate among Asian Americans. Recently, he interviewed multiple people, including non-Asian backgrounds, about what they thought about the situation.

The "simple thoughts" were captured live or via the internet through online opinion polls for the class. Suffice to say, the "harsher" comments came in via the internet.

I'm thinking of putting his investigation on a website so I can turn it a "one stop shopping" site for this debate rather than fish through multiple internet forums to get an answer or understanding of what's going on.

I wish to share with you just some of the comments he got. He has more but hasn't sent them to me yet. It's quite long but interesting read.

[Vahz]

“Sometimes I think that Asian men and women are on two completely different pages. We have no idea what’s important to each other nor do we care to know.” –Asian male

“Asian people are selfish. Ever hear the quote “the personal is political?” Asians take that one step further and belittle everyone else’s problem but put their own on the utmost priority. No wonder nothing ever gets done.” –White female

“Minorities are best compared to the fisherman’s crab bucket. The ones at the top are trying to climb out and are stepping on everyone else to do it. The ones at the bottom are hanging onto the ones at the top so they can’t get out. When will POC [people of color] finally pull their heads out of their asses and learn to topple the bucket over together?” –Black male

“Forget Asian women. There are other women out there that are willing to date you.” –White female

“Asian women know that Asian men will always be waiting for them in case it doesn’t work out with the white man. Asian men are like mentally battered housewives for staying with them.” –Asian male

“To the yellow brothers, stop letting Asian women dictate your lives. If you want to date and marry an Asian woman because your culture is important to you, it’s pointless because it takes two people to care. Asian women have obviously shown that they’re not interested. Why should you be?” –Asian male

“Asian parents are hypocrites when it comes to dating. They tolerate their daughters dating out but they lock their sons in a cage by forcing them to marry an Asian woman. Hasn’t any Asian parent used logic and think that if this huge interracial out flux of Asian women goes on, there won’t be enough Asian women to go around for their sons?” – Asian male

“I’ve never noticed any of these Asian women that you say only date white men. As a white man, Asian women seem to be more critical of me.” – White male

“We would date you more often if you weren’t so sexist.” –Asian female

“I grew up with white people. I just find Asian men ugly.” –Asian female

“It saddens me to hear that because of a few bad Asian women, Asian men feel the need to label honest interracial relationships as dishonest.” – Asian female

“The media is just an excuse. Sure, it has a strong influence but the best influence you can make is the one we see in real life.” – Asian female

“Asian guys never seem to talk to me.” – Asian female

“I’m not against interracial relationships but there is a reason why many Asian men label them as sellouts. The reason being that many of these white worshipping Asian women are so numerous.” –Asian male

“Here we go again. Asian boys telling women what they can and can’t do.” –Asian female

“There are Asians that strictly date white women too, you know.” –Asian female

“Asian men keep complaining about Asian women and white men. Why don’t they try asking some Hispanic or black women out? We’re more receptive than you might think.” –Black female

“I’ve always thought that the reason you don’t see Asian men with non-Asian women is because they’re not interested in Hispanic women.” –Latino female

“If these Asian women hate Asian men, that leaves more for me! Why can’t I find them?” –Asian female

“Many Asian women that have made it in society have melded themselves into white culture and turned into the club to bash down their own men.” –Asian male

“Asian men make me feel worthless sometimes. They have so many high expectations from me simply because I’m Asian. White men don’t seem to be hung up on my shortcomings.” – Asian female

“Oriental men don’t smile enough to let us know they’re interested. I thought I was racist when I said to myself that they all look the same sometimes but then I read a Popular Science article that said the reason why whites and blacks feel all Orientals look alike is because it’s more difficult for us distinguish their facial features. One of the best ways to counter that is to smile which they almost never do. It always looks like they’re angry at something even when they’re just staring into space.” –White female

“I always thought Asian guys were only into Asian women.” –White female

“I’m an Asian girl and I strictly date Asian boys.” – Asian female

“Asian men can’t even trust Asian women to represent them properly. All the Asian women involved with some type of American media have either deliberately or indirectly insulted Asian men. They’re like white men in an Asian female body. A doppelganger, if you will.” –Asian male

“Asian guys need to stop with all these anti-Asian female comments. It’s just pushing them more into the arms of white men. Kill them with kindness.” – Asian male

“Grow some balls, guys. Talk to us rather than staring at us.” – Asian female

“Maybe if you stopped acting like such a tough guy, you’d have more success
with us.” –Asian female

“Asian guys remind me too much of my male relatives.” –Asian female

“Asian men feel like they need to push us into a certain role.” –Asian female

“Even if I find a nice Asian guy who’s my dream man, I still have to deal with his family and I’d rather not.” –Asian female

“Asian women that strictly date white men? Every person knows at least one of these types.” –Asian male

“You’re all too short! Hahaha.” –Asian female

“Asian guys are so hot that it makes me nervous talking to them and they don’t talk to me.” –Asian female

“Asian men are either extremely sexy or extremely dull. I keep encountering the dull verity.” –Asian female

“You can spot one of those sellout Asian women easily. If almost all her friends are non-Asians, avoid her like the plague unless you want to be publically embarrassed.” –Asian male

“Are there Asian women that will reject because you’re Asian? Yes, but they’re in the minority. I personally don’t lose sleep over it.” –Asian male

“Many of the Asian women with white men aren’t discriminatory against Asian
men. Sorry if that’s not what you wanted to hear.” –Asian female

“I’ve encountered more racism from Asian women than white men who are the supposed font of racism.” –Asian male

“Asian women are a liability to the image of Asian men.” –Asian male

“Most of my Asian guy friends don’t seem to have a problem with Asian women. I didn’t even know about this issue until I was browsing around internet forums. Maybe my friends are just lucky.” –Asian female

“There are no Asian guys were I live.” –Asian female

“I find interracial relationships to carry more emotional baggage than what society wants us to believe. From what I’ve seen, there are many racists whose spouse is another ethnicity.” –White female

“Being in an interracial relationship doesn’t mean you’re not racist. Also, refusing to date outside your race doesn’t necessarily make you a racist.” –White female

“Asian men need to stop the cycle of victimization and get more involved with social gatherings.” –Asian male

“Are the cards stacked against us? Yes. Do white men have it easier? Yes. What are you going to do? Give up and die?” –Asian male

“The only reason why the interracial dating rate for Asian women is so high is because of two things. Asian women have a thing for white men and white men have a thing for Asian women.” –White male

“Go back to Asia. Asian women over there don’t seem to have the same problem as Asian American women.” –Asian male

“White men are just more interesting.” –Asian female

“I’ve only really dated Asian men and I don’t think I have energy to explain myself to a white man regarding my mannerisms. I don’t have to do that with an Asian man.” –Asian female

“An Asian girl once destroyed my self esteem and I’ll never go back to them. I’m currently married to a Columbian woman and she treats me like gold.” –Asian male

“Normal Asian women need to speak up against these hateful Asian women more often. I do my part but I haven’t encountered that many of them.” –Asian female

“Asian women are more readily accepted by white society and I guess they’re just playing their part and marrying into their demographic. As it shows, Asian men are still far behind.” –Asian male

“Yea, right. Like if white women were all over Asian men, they would complain.” –Asian female

“Some women [Asian] go out of their way to perpetuate the submissive Asian
girl stereotype in front of white men and it pisses me off. It’s like ice skating uphill whenever I try to break it.” –Asian female

“I personally don’t care if some Asian women only date white men but it’s completely unnecessary when they go out of their way to bash Asian men. Does it turn the white guy on more to hear that? I guess so.” –Asian male

“I guess there is a racist element when it comes to interracial dating among Asian women. They all seem to date white men when they mean interracial. Latinos and blacks are never included.” –Black male

“Asians are so dumb. We should just close the borders while they just keep interracially marrying until they get bred out. Should take about 50 years. Like it was said in Braveheart, if we can’t kick them out, we’ll breed them out.” –White male

“Black guys go for white girls. White guys go for Asian girls. Asian guys turn gay or kill themselves.” –White male

“The Asian guys I hang out with are really cool and seem to be great at attracting women of all colors.” – White male

“All this online whining is just making Asian men look worse. It’s going to make Asian women think they were right for choosing white men.” –Asian male

“Asian women are always loyal until they find something better. It’s like rats fleeing a sinking ship.” –Asian male

[Vahz]

“Asian women all want to date white to try something new but then come back to us. Sorry, not interested in sloppy seconds.” –Asian male

“Asian men are just angry that they don’t seem to attract the same amount of attention from white women. If they did, this wouldn’t even be an issue.” –Asian female

“I used to be chewed out for protesting Asian women with white men couples. I was accused of being a hypocrite until I also stated that it annoys me when I see white women with Asian men. They quickly turned quiet.” –Asian male

“Dating a white man doesn’t mean we’re disloyal to Asian men or culture.” –Asian female

“What Asian women don’t understand is that white men have emasculated Asian men in this country. With such a huge wave of Asian women dating white men, it’s like proving that the white man’s theory on Asian men being inferior was correct.” –Asian male

“It seems that this particular coupling of WM/AF was designed to almost rub it in our faces that we’re not wanted.” –Asian male

“The media has a far greater effect than people think.” –Asian male

“I’m simply bombarded by more white men than Asian.” –Asian female

“Latinas and black women seem to be less open to dating others due to ethnic solidarity. Even if they are willing to date outside their race, they give preference to their own first. With Asian women, not only will they not give you a preference but your ethnicity could actually work against you.” –Asian male

“Asian women are selfish. They bitch and complain about being held down without thinking of how this is affecting their male counterparts. If Asian men weren’t emasculated in American society, it wouldn’t be a problem but they completely fail to understand that just the image of an Asian woman with a white man is helping the emasculation process.” –Asian male

“Asian females can’t be for community activism and date a white man at the same time. One of the primary concerns is the emasculation of Asian men and dating a white man runs contrary to that goal.” –Asian female

“The large out flux of Asian women can’t be good for community growth.” –Asian male

“It has been proven that the media has a large influence on the psyche of the American people. The only proof I needed was when a white coworker told me that she never thought of Asian men in way of romantic interests until she saw Daniel Dae Kim on Lost.” –Asian female

“It seem to me that many of these Asian women that refuses or are wary of dating Asian men are either insecure with themselves and how whites view them or they have had bad Asian male influences.” -Asian male

“This is how the Asian community assimilates into American society. With brute force. Unfortunately, they assimilate by replacing their Asian culture with white culture. It’s both possible to be an American and proud of your ethnic heritage. Blacks and Latinos do it all the time. Why can’t Asians? This goes for males and females.” –Asian male

“I think a big influence also comes from the parents. I know many bitter Asian wives that tell their daughters never to date an Asian man. Also, Asian parents don’t wish to start trouble and they believe the best way is to be quiet and be taken in by white society. I never understood why blacks and Latinos viewed us Asians as sellouts. Now, I know. We’d rather keep the status quo and marry into power rather than create our own community power structure for fear of pissing whites off.” –Asian male

“I’ve actually seen something interesting. It seems that if an Asian girl is going out with a white man, she’s completely shunned by other Asians. Thus, she’ll grow up with only white friends which actually increase her chances of marrying a white guy because she has no Asian male friends.” – White male

“Why would a girl want fewer guys to be after her? Choices allow them to be pickier. If Asian men had the same situation, I’m not quite sure they would go out of their way to date Asian women.” –Asian female

“Asian women want the acceptance and love of white people so badly. Our love isn’t good enough.” –Asian male

“The problem is that both genders have the complete and opposite stereotypes affixed to them. One is oversexed while the other is asexual.” –Asian female

“Constantly being bombarded with images of white men with Asian women only serves to embolden white men and demoralizes Asian men when it comes to talking to Asian women. It’s a vicious cycle that will never be broken.” –Asian male

“There is a site that shows Asian American interracial marriage has gone down for Asian Americans. Hopefully this controversy can finally die.” –Asian female

“Asian women aren’t our enemies, guys. However, they’re also not our allies. We’re in this fight alone.” –Asian male

“You really have to be a social outcast to not find a woman who will love you. Why would you limit yourself to just Asian women? That’s like 2% of the country. Date other types of non-Asian women. If it’ll raise too much of a fuss with family members, tell them that if Asian women didn’t date and marry out of their race so much, maybe you would have this problem. That shuts them up real fast. Trust me. It worked for me.” –Asian male

“I’ve seen more white and black women that were supportive of Asian men than Asian women.” –Asian male

“It seems that Asian women just want to date white men. If that’s the case, just be shallow and admit it rather than handing Asian guys all these stupid and lame excuses why we’re so terrible to be around.” – Asian male

“Asian females are so popular in American media while Asian men are pretty much invisible. If I didn’t know better, I’d think that Asian women were just cloned somewhere and didn’t have a male counterpart.” – White female

“If Asian women shun Asian men because of bad experiences, why don’t white, Latinas, and black women have this same problem?” –Asian male

“Asian women can and will stereotype Asian men in the worst ways but then counter that their brothers, fathers, and uncles are different than normal Asian men. This makes me wonder about the validity of that statement. If we are so repulsive, how did our home nations manage to survive all this time? Obviously media stereotyping has helped speed that thinking along.” –Asian male

"Why do they call us guys bitter? I think Asian men have a right to be angry. If the situation was reversed, would Asian women be angry? Yea, I thought so." - Asian male

"That's odd. Almost none of my Asian male friends fit into any of the stereotypes that these Asian women mention. Well, one is only 5'7" so I guess he can fit the short stereotype but then again, why would an Asian girl that's 5'2" want someone even taller? It sounds like they're just grasping at straws." - White male



Yea, we got a long way to go.

[Makulita]

....Vahz wins for fastest arousal of complete, animalistic RAGE in 5 minutes worth of reading.

I wanna comment tooooo, where is this online polling site? I desire to jam my two cents into someone's face.

[Lum]

This is incredible, Vahz. Your friend should get an A+ for this. I doubt I've ever felt so many conflicting emotions from reading a thread. If I were to pick one feeling that edged out the rest I would have to say sadness for many of these young people. God I'm such an old fart.

[Vahz]

I don't think the comments submission website is open anymore because this was done about 3-4 weeks ago. What's interesting is that this problem is going to recycle itself forever and from what I've seen, the newer generation is going along the same exact path.

[kwak76]

Haha..yeah..nothing new. I heard all this before. The cycles continues.

Like I said before it is Asian immigrants who are adding to the asian population but reading the message is pretty sad to see the gender divide that we still have.

[Vahz]

I'm just filtering out what seem to be quotes that are reciting the same thing but these are interesting.

“In this country, the hunter is supposed to be the male. Asian men just aren’t used to it or are too intimidated. Ironically, they’re stereotyping all white women as being intolerant of their Asian background.” –Asian male

“Some confident Asian men have stated that the media is white propaganda and how we shouldn’t believe it. I respect them for being able to overcome their fears but there was an interesting passage in a World War 2 history book that caught my eye. Before the Russians launched their big offensive to take Berlin in 1945, they peppered the German troops with propaganda posters declaring how they’re going to be fishing in a lake right next to Berlin. Naturally, this demoralized the German troops. However, this effect was countered with Germany’s own propaganda machine by telling the German troops that they were getting 20,000 reinforcements the next day. My point is, while there is enemy propaganda, what drove the Germans to resist fanatically was the fact that they had their own propaganda. We don’t have that regarding Asian men in America.” –Asian male

“I don’t believe those interracial marriage statistics for a second. It has to be much higher. Do you know what my proof is? All I have to do is look around. For every AM/WF couple, there are 10 AF/WM couples. I don’t think it’s better, it’s just not as bad as before. Before, it seemed to be a ratio of 15:1.” –Asian male

“From what these statistics tell me, they don’t seem to fit. According to statistics, there are 2 AF/WM couples for every 1 WF/WM couple. I don’t see it. Are all of the WF/AM couples staying home and watching TV? Or all they all in one town in one state?” –Asian male

"All I used to date in high school were white but now that I'm in college, there are alot more Asians and my choices have increased." - Asian female


I guess I'll leave the last one at that. A good note.

[kwak76]

location location location

I remeber when I worked in real estate that was drilled into my head.
Here in Queens , Flushing NYC. Inter-racial couples are a minority. AW/WM couples are the minority at least around Flushing.

BUT once you step into manhattan it's like half/half and sometimes the AW/WM are the majority in certain areas in Mahattan.

Not sure how other places are like. WHat it comes down to is that Asian men just have to better themselves . Just go out and talk to allot of women. In due time you find someone.

Granted I wish we didn't have the gender divide and a double standard in the inter-racial relationship depart but I think in 2007 it got better compared to 1997.

[Vahz]

We'll see. It's not that I want to be a stick in the mud but Seraph's conclusion of interracial marriages going down makes me quite skeptical.

I mean, the margin of error is within the territory of his conclusions. Even by his own conclusions, 1.5 gen Chinese women in interracial marriages have increased by a whopping 9%.

He last did the report at 2004 but until we see a trend in 2008 and 2012, I still remain skeptical.

[theme]

Oriental men don’t smile enough to let us know they’re interested. I thought I was racist when I said to myself that they all look the same sometimes but then I read a Popular Science article that said the reason why whites and blacks feel all Orientals look alike is because it’s more difficult for us distinguish their facial features. One of the best ways to counter that is to smile which they almost never do. It always looks like they’re angry at something even when they’re just staring into space.

LOL. Wow, that's actually funny because I always thought that Asian men tend not to smile very much.

Anyway, good post. While I dont' think there was anything that I have not heard before, it is still nevertheless interesting.

[nekohead]

DANG IT!!
I want to finish reading this..
But, I have to go to work!!
:(

[DONKEY]

nothing new there really, the comments run the spectrum.
interesting data for a thesis but im not sure how its helpful otherwise.
at my previous job i had to analyze some data from a survey taken about satisfaction with a public facility. there were about 1500 respondents. 389 of them complained that the building is kept too warm, 414 complained that the building was kept too cool. ugh

[atlasien]

“Some confident Asian men have stated that the media is white propaganda and how we shouldn’t believe it. I respect them for being able to overcome their fears but there was an interesting passage in a World War 2 history book that caught my eye. Before the Russians launched their big offensive to take Berlin in 1945, they peppered the German troops with propaganda posters declaring how they’re going to be fishing in a lake right next to Berlin. Naturally, this demoralized the German troops. However, this effect was countered with Germany’s own propaganda machine by telling the German troops that they were getting 20,000 reinforcements the next day. My point is, while there is enemy propaganda, what drove the Germans to resist fanatically was the fact that they had their own propaganda. We don’t have that regarding Asian men in America.” –Asian male


I skimmed over but I'm glad I stopped at that one. It's awesome. The answer to the problem is... Goebbels! Hahahahaha

http://www.boxoffice.com/jpg/aug05/tji/goebbels.jpg

[Vahz]

I honestly agree with the smiling issue because I almost never see Asian men smile.

[Ike]

Wow... reading those quotes from Asian women was depressing. And here I was, naively thinking that CCBs were in the minority.

Also, if I were to have answered, it would have been along the lines of:
"I have never dated a 100% Asian guy. I've been interested, but they haven't been interested in me. I think it's because I'm on the chubby side for Asian women. White guys are less picky. They'll date anything that moves, living or nonliving. So the moral of the story is, Asian men, if you can't get your dream girl, do as white men do: settle."

Edit: "Plus, ever heard of the phrase tall, dark, and handsome? White men are not dark, no matter how much they go tanning. So, girls, especially short girls, stop fixating on the tall part. If your man is taller than you when you're in heels, that's good enough. Or maybe we're not in the 18th century anymore, and it's okay for women to be taller anyway."

[RebelAzn]

Thanks Vahz for doing the work and provide the data. It seems things have not changed in the last 10 years. Lum is right, the younger generation is going through the same thing over again. The issue has been debated over and over and most people here know whats going on.

Here are some issues facing the Asian American community:

1. Racism from Asian women towards Asian men - This is a serious problem. While we are both being marginalized, Asian women have benefited in the dating with their stereotypes. While Asian men expect racism from the whites, I think racism from Asian women feels 10 times worst. The disparity in interracial dating is merely a result of years of media brainwashing and racism. If Asian men complain about this, it could easily be dismissed as whining since some men do whine. What will educate these CCBs as racists? The message probably has to come from other Asian women who actually know what's happening to us.

2. Gender Divide - This is serious issue that could rip the Asian American community apart. While inflow of recent new immigrants will mask this problem due to sheer numbers, but this problem will only get worse within the Asian American community. If immigration stops tomorrow, what will happen to us?

3. Children - I am deeply concerned what will happen to our children. What will be like for them to grow up in this environment? What happens if our sons are constantly being told by this society that they are not good enough due to their race? What happens when women who look like them who are suppose to support them turn their back on them? The CCBs might think they have made it by marrying white men but do they think their children will avoid this? Will our children be forced to give up their culture and adopt the white culture? While recent immigrant parents won't understand all these racial issues, their children might be heavily influenced by the white controlled media. If that's the case, this vicious cycle will continue.

4. Media brainwashing - This is probably the cause of it all. If you don't think media is powerful, why would companies spent billions to advertise on t TV? What we perceive as attractive and learned behaviors are all through the media. Put it this way, white men will not give up their power structure nor do they care about struggles of minorities in this country. This problem might never go away. Perhaps things will change when China becomes world's most powerful country again and Hollywood will be forced to cater to the Chinese market if they want to make money, but that might not happen for another 40 or 50 years.

The younger generation does have something older Asian Americans did not have 15 or even 10 years ago and that is the Internet. While the media is powerful, we do have place to share information like fighting44s and others. Unless one of us get really rich and become a billionaire, how do we get our own BET? I think Vahz should do a Website if you have enough info. If nothing else, at least it will educate people on what's going on or at least question why they behave the way they do. At minimal, we need some more positive role models in the media or at least see more Asian men with Asian women couples on TV. Also, Asian American community really need to work with other minority communities to fight the racism in this country. Like I said before, white people will not give up their white privilege anytime soon nor do they care about any of the struggles of minorities.

[Vahz]

While I appreciate the thanks from everyone, this wasn't my experiment, it was a friend of mine.

I just think that the Asian community is the least socially aware minority group and until we're willing to discuss issues openly and honestly, we'll just end up passing our demons to our children. If we don't fight, our children will have to fight. If our children don't fight, their children will have to fight. It's time to stop the cycle. Cynical, an Chinese American female, from antiorientalist.blogspot.com agreed that this needs to be addressed now because it's the single biggest topic that caused so much division in the next generation of Asian Americans.

This is why I'm going to attempt to put all the discussions on this problem on a single URL which people can reference. I'm also going to try to hit up other racially conscious sites to promote it. If I can change one mind, it'll have been worth it.

My personal favorite quote is: “Asian women want the acceptance and love of white people so badly. Our love isn’t good enough.”

Another interesting point that I've heard from friends is that many of the white women that are involved with Asian men were the ones that initiated the conversation. Hell, one of the white women was the one that proposed to him! Sure, that sounds really odd but if she really likes him, the woman can always take the first step.

I was watching a show about Neo-Nazi skinheads and they keep railing against interracial marriage. These guys are obviously stupid. If you want to get rid of minorities, you'll want to encourage interracial marriage to breed people out because we sure as hell ain't leaving quietly.

[RebelAzn]

Another interesting point that I've heard from friends is that many of the white women that are involved with Asian men were the ones that initiated the conversation. Hell, one of the white women was the one that proposed to him! Sure, that sounds really odd but if she really likes him, the woman can always take the first step.


AM/WF relationships have an entirely different dynamics than WM/AF. For one thing, white men sure aren't promoting WF relationship with anyone. With amount of BM/WF relationship in real life, how many do we see on TV? We don't and not even close to WM and some minority woman. Also, most WFs know they will have to deal with much worse racism when they are dating Asian men vs. Asian women dating white men where it is actually promoted by white men. Why would they want to promote something that might work against their own interest and promote competition.

[Vahz]

Well said.

I happened upon this article while I was searching for articles to put on my new site.

http://www.isteve.com/2003_Census_Interracial_Marriage_Gender_Gap.htm

The follow excerpt article is by Steve Sailer. We want to cite this piece to illustrate some startling statistics that most people are unaware of when it comes to the issue Asian American males with respect to marriage. These are based on actual US census data (See a snip of census data on Asian-Americans). Mind you, these are data for marriages only; if we consider the interracial dating scene, the numbers are far worst (likely, the ratio of AF/WM dating couples to AM/WF couples at least 7:1). We’re only citing these to point out reality so as to facilitate the discussion.

"Newly released data from the 2000 Census show that the interracial marriage “gender gaps” endured by black women and Asian men remained large and may even have worsened since 1990."

"Although less publicized, similar problems confront Asian-American men looking for wives. Gender imbalances in the number of interracial married couples contribute to both groups’ frustrations in the highly competitive market for spouses."

"Like most guys, Asian-American men are fairly reticent about admitting any frustrations in the mating game. But the news for them was even worse. Asian women had white husbands 3.08 times more often than Asian men had white wives. That means 75 percent of white-Asian couples featured a white husband and Asian wife.

That 3.08 ratio compared to the 2.54 ratio in 1990, which was based on a slightly different methodology, so readers should be cautious about assuming the trend is growing. (Oddly enough, the 1990 ratios for black-white and white-Asian marriages were mirror images of each other.)

In 2000, the white-Asian inequality was somewhat less severe among unmarried partners: 2.09 times as many white men cohabited with Asian women as Asian men cohabited with white women."

"Although the bitterness that some black women feel over intermarriage is well known, the imbalance rests even more heavily on Asian-American men. For every 1,000 Asian women with husbands, only 860 Asian men had wives, leaving a large number of Asian bachelors left over."

"In the many Internet chat rooms that debate what young Asians call “the dating disparity,” most participants blame media stereotypes. More controversially, some observers have pointed to differences among the races in cultural standards of behavior, or even to average physical differences in height, hair length, muscularity, and the like."

"These data are not estimates, but are the actual counts of all 54,493,232 married couples in America as of April 1, 2000. So, they are extremely reliable."

"Looking at it another way, 18 percent of Asian wives have white husbands, while merely seven percent of Asian husbands have white wives."



See, this is where I have a problem with statistics. According to Sailor, 18% of Asian women have white husbands. However, according to www.proudasianamerican.com, about 40% of Asian women have white husbands. Who's wrong and who's right?

[RebelAzn]

Vahz -

Does it really matter what the stat is saying? I am sure most of us can see the disparity in real life everywhere, it is not some sort of myth. Like I said in many other threads, if Asian American men want to date more, they need to open up their mind and look at other women besides Asian or white women. This might help the dating situation, but it won't solve any long term problems within the community.

[theme]

I honestly agree with the smiling issue because I almost never see Asian men smile.

Yeah. People don't realize how important something as simple as a smile is to conveying a whole race of people, but that survey in Popular Science sort of proves it. You have this image of the smiley Asian woman which plays into their stereotype, but when it comes to Asian men it's a pout or a frown a la AngryAsianMan.

Instead of that, people talk about all sorts of things they THINK is the problem but it's usually something else. Not that smiling alone is the panacea for all our problems.

[Hadouken]

Yeah. People don't realize how important something as simple as a smile is to conveying a whole race of people, but that survey in Popular Science sort of proves it. You have this image of the smiley Asian woman which plays into their stereotype, but when it comes to Asian men it's a pout or a frown a la AngryAsianMan.

Instead of that, people talk about all sorts of things they THINK is the problem but it's usually something else. Not that smiling alone is the panacea for all our problems.

What about initiative? Nevermind the dating, I've rarely seen an AM take the initiative at the workplace. At my company with over 500 employees, with over half of the them being minorities, there isn't a single Asian supervisor, manager, or senior officer. I know a lot of them, most of them speak pretty good English and are highly competent. I know there's that glass ceiling in the corporate world for minorities, but still, when there is an opportunity, I rarely ever see one of them take it. Maybe there's just something else here that I'm not seeing, since I've only been here for 2 years. But, I'd hate to reaffirm certain negative stereotypes.

[RebelAzn]

What about initiative? Nevermind the dating, I've rarely seen an AM take the initiative at the workplace. At my company with over 500 employees, with over half of the them being minorities, there isn't a single Asian supervisor, manager, or senior officer. I know a lot of them, most of them speak pretty good English and are highly competent. I know there's that glass ceiling in the corporate world for minorities, but still, when there is an opportunity, I rarely ever see one of them take it. Maybe there's just something else here that I'm not seeing, since I've only been here for 2 years. But, I'd hate to reaffirm certain negative stereotypes.

Hadouken - I think this part has to do with most Asian parents upbringing. It is a cultural thing. While most Asian parents want their kids to do well in school, they rarely push their kids to improve their communication or social skills. In the real world, social and communication skills are more important once you get out of the school. You can have a PHD, but companies will value a sales guy who brings in million dollar sales way more. This is something that's missing from many Asian upbringing. These same social and communication skills also translate to dating etc.

For example, most Asian parent discourage their kids from playing sports. They think it is a waste of time. In reality, sports develop confidence, competitiveness and team work. These are important skills in the society. I know my parents did not approve any sports in high school etc. Both of my parents were against us playing football cause they think we might get hurt etc. Well we did it anyway. Most of my brothers played high school football and we wrestled. These things help a ton. When I have kids someday, I gonna work on developing their athletic and social skills more. I know school is important, but ability to lead and communicate is much more important skills in the America corporate world. It takes a lot more than book smart.

[maogirl]

dude

i think you might want to distinguish between asian immigrants and real asians in asia.

overseas asians are generally pussier than asians in asia. i mean, if we're speaking anecdotally, i look scary as all hell, but the guys who do approach me are usually locals (and rather scary themselves, but that's another topic).

[theme]

What about initiative? Nevermind the dating, I've rarely seen an AM take the initiative at the workplace. At my company with over 500 employees, with over half of the them being minorities, there isn't a single Asian supervisor, manager, or senior officer. I know a lot of them, most of them speak pretty good English and are highly competent. I know there's that glass ceiling in the corporate world for minorities, but still, when there is an opportunity, I rarely ever see one of them take it. Maybe there's just something else here that I'm not seeing, since I've only been here for 2 years. But, I'd hate to reaffirm certain negative stereotypes.


Long story but I think it would explain if you follow:


I worked in a place where the guy that held the most power, other than the owner, was a white male. There were two white females who worked directly under him, and below them were a bunch of other white males. The top male was a total asshole, wasn't particularly smart, wasn't charismatic, gotten into a physical fight with a couple of the other employees and I'm pretty sure the two white females did most of the work that kept the place afloat. But he was 'accepted' as the leader. While secretly they may not have thought much of him as a leader, around him they sure as hell would not have let him know that.

Contrast that with the place I worked before where the guy in the same position was an Indian guy. Well, let's just say this guy didn't last too long- About a month to be exact. And I don't even think it was because he was a bad leader. But I think his ethnicity was such a turnoff for people that they just 'chose' not to follow him. One employee even made an ethnic joke about Indians.

Anyway, my point is that white male managers can always try and fail and try again no matter what. They have infinite chances when it comes to opportunities. Even in the dating world, they can have infinite chances with Asian females regardless of how dismal their past relationships with Asian females have been.

You can see the parallel here right? Asian males have one chance in the workplace and they have limited chances with Asian females. Fail and you fail not only yourself but all other Asian males, the same goes both professionaly and romantically.

I can't speak of the particular AM who work at your place, but I would imagine that some of this must go through their head. In terms of qualifications I have no doubt that ANYONE-Black,White,Asian,Hispanic-can be a leader. But socially, colored minority males have a tremendously tough time making people follow the simplest instructions unless they really wanted to do it in the first place.

[Hadouken]

dude

i think you might want to distinguish between asian immigrants and real asians in asia.

overseas asians are generally pussier than asians in asia. i mean, if we're speaking anecdotally, i look scary as all hell, but the guys who do approach me are usually locals (and rather scary themselves, but that's another topic).

Well, that's homecourt advantage for you. When the majority of the people is white, and in control of everything, an Asian might want to think twice before throwing his weight around. It's much easier when everyone else looks like you and you don't seem like such a foreigner. Of course white folks are the exception to the rule. They do pretty well pretty much everywhere. Must be nice to have such privilege. Hell, just being from a western country myself, I get this feeling of superiority when I step foot back on the motherland, thinking some of that whiteness might rub off on me.

[Lum]

I have a question about these stereotypes. How can a man be emasculated and misogynistic at the same time?

Do I even want to know?

[RebelAzn]

dude

i think you might want to distinguish between asian immigrants and real asians in asia.

overseas asians are generally pussier than asians in asia. i mean, if we're speaking anecdotally, i look scary as all hell, but the guys who do approach me are usually locals (and rather scary themselves, but that's another topic).

Maogirl - I know you are right there. I am 1.5 generation since I came over at early age. I remember growing up in China where if you don't know how to fight, you are pretty much dead meat. I mean there is like a bully in every school that would take your lunch or whatever. Since there is no guns, everything was done with fists. We are talking about elementary schools here. I remember I used to hear about fights between 50 guys and another guy and his 50 friends. Those gang fights were common. Also, if your little brother gets beat up, it is up to you to avenge him as his older brother. God knows I got into number of those fights too.

In China, they filter you out at every level. To get into good high school, kids have to take hard exams. If you are not bright, you won't even get into good high school never mind college. There were bunch of punks, but those are also the ones that won't get into college.

When I first came over to the USA as a little boy, I saw few other Asian kids get picked on and they won't fight back. Meanwhile, my brothers and I always fought back. I mean we were trained to do that naturally in China so it was not such a big deal. My little bro (god bless him) broke this white kid's nose and got suspected. After few fights, white kids left us alone, but I did notice most other Asians born here did not fight back. I think another fact is all the people from Asia that were over are all studious types, which did not help with the stereotype. I mean they only sent over people that's going for PHDs etc, I am sure those thugs never would have made it here to the USA to study math.

[RebelAzn]

Well, that's homecourt advantage for you. When the majority of the people is white, and in control of everything, an Asian might want to think twice before throwing his weight around. It's much easier when everyone else looks like you and you don't seem like such a foreigner. Of course white folks are the exception to the rule. They do pretty well pretty much everywhere. Must be nice to have such privilege. Hell, just being from a western country myself, I get this feeling of superiority when I step foot back on the motherland, thinking some of that whiteness might rub off on me.

You feel that way because you feel you got more money and opportunity than people from certain parts of Asia. It is the same for white guys in Asia. I doubt people in China would be so kind to white people if Americans are stereotyped as poor and have no money. Back in 15 or 20 years ago, white people were stereotyped very badly in China. I mean Chinese people thought they look funny, have hair like animals and have very bad body odor. Communist was anti-USA so white people were like the devils. I still remember this French woman who married a Chinese diplomat who lived nearby us and everyone thought she was a freak or something. A few years of Hollywood movie influence and lure of the almighty dollar, white people all suddenly don't look so bad. I know most Chinese people are still very pro Chinese in China, but who knows what will happen after they are expose to few more years of Hollywood brainwashing.

[RebelAzn]

I have a question about these stereotypes. How can a man be emasculated and misogynistic at the same time?

Do I even want to know?

You are a funny dude :D

[mszahc]

I have a question about these stereotypes. How can a man be emasculated and misogynistic at the same time?

Do I even want to know?


effeminate in appearance and misogynistic in character, a la Fu Manchu. This is a depressing thread.

[cattygurl]

Actually, men that FEEL emasculated or fear emasculation tend to become more misogynistic.

The famous Canadian college shooter comes to mind.

[RebelAzn]

Actually, men that FEEL emasculated or fear emasculation tend to become more misogynistic.

The famous Canadian college shooter comes to mind.

You know, I never knew what the hell what these words really mean. I guess at end of the day, you just got to be yourself and act whatever you feel like. All these stereotypes are just freaking annoying to say the least. I am sure most Asian men are tired of representing the whole race everywhere they go where there are no Asians.

[Hadouken]

I have a question about these stereotypes. How can a man be emasculated and misogynistic at the same time?

Do I even want to know?

Well, why stop at emasculated? If you're gonna demonize an entire population, why not just go the whole nine yards? Okay, heres one: even if AM may seem shy, unfortunately enough of them demonstrate that they know kungfu. So the next (il)logical step is that AM are socially inept kungfu machines who take out their frustrations on the even weaker, submissive AF who just want to quietly serve their husbands and be good wives. After all, if all AM are soft and polite, AF would not need to be saved by macho WM. But I think what Cattygurl said makes more sense. It's getting late and I'm getting paranoid.

[RebelAzn]

I think all these stereotypes just mess with your mind and undermine your confidence. At end of the day, you just got to be yourself and be the best you can be. Fight the media programming and just be the best you can be.

As for the corporate world, I think the best way is to start your own company. It might be a harder path but it is much more rewarding if you ever make it. Also, you can tell anyone you don't like to go fuck off and take a fucking hike whenever you feel like it.

[wuwei]

Maogirl - I know you are right there. I am 1.5 generation since I came over at early age. I remember growing up in China where if you don't know how to fight, you are pretty much dead meat. I mean there is like a bully in every school that would take your lunch or whatever. Since there is no guns, everything was done with fists. We are talking about elementary schools here. I remember I used to hear about fights between 50 guys and another guy and his 50 friends. Those gang fights were common. Also, if your little brother gets beat up, it is up to you to avenge him as his older brother. God knows I got into number of those fights too.

In China, they filter you out at every level. To get into good high school, kids have to take hard exams. If you are not bright, you won't even get into good high school never mind college. There were bunch of punks, but those are also the ones that won't get into college.

When I first came over to the USA as a little boy, I saw few other Asian kids get picked on and they won't fight back. Meanwhile, my brothers and I always fought back. I mean we were trained to do that naturally in China so it was not such a big deal. My little bro (god bless him) broke this white kid's nose and got suspected. After few fights, white kids left us alone, but I did notice most other Asians born here did not fight back. I think another fact is all the people from Asia that were over are all studious types, which did not help with the stereotype. I mean they only sent over people that's going for PHDs etc, I am sure those thugs never would have made it here to the USA to study math.

lol, yeah, I was very aggressive when I first came here too, and thinking back, I could have gotten into some serious trouble.

I remember punching guys in the face who were much bigger than me, and I wasnt really evne thinking, it was just natural instincts. Luckily, most people get scared and back off when they see someone going all out.

Now though, I am a pussy just like every other Asian American dude, I'vent really gotten into a real fight in like 3 or 4 years.

[Vahz]

Vahz -

Does it really matter what the stat is saying? I am sure most of us can see the disparity in real life everywhere, it is not some sort of myth. Like I said in many other threads, if Asian American men want to date more, they need to open up their mind and look at other women besides Asian or white women. This might help the dating situation, but it won't solve any long term problems within the community.

Well, yes, I understand but I'm simply trying to see how big the population is when it comes to outmarriage because on one site, it states that nearly 50% of Asian women are married to white men. That's a big difference to 18%.

[RebelAzn]

Well, yes, I understand but I'm simply trying to see how big the population is when it comes to outmarriage because on one site, it states that nearly 50% of Asian women are married to white men. That's a big difference to 18%.

I mean does it really matter? At end of the day, you got to marry someone that cares about you and you just need one woman, who cares what other 99.99% do? What I am mad about is some of these Asian women turned their backs on the Asian community in general. They project their own insecurities onto Asian men. Instead of fight racism together, they continue to perpetuating stereotypes for both Asian men and women and decided to take the path of least resistance and be "assimilated". It is like the black man said, they believe in the racial hierarchy and won't hesitate to step over you to get to the top of the chart.

Another thing is they complain about Asian men being nerdy or dorky or whatever, yet they turn around and date the dorkiest white men around. If you are in the Bay Area, you will notice majority of WM/AF pairs are not exactly the model looking type but more less on the revenge of the nerd type. Those white men are not exactly tall and I hardly ever seen a muscular white guy with an AF. The only difference I can see from Asian men they complained about from these white men is just skin color.

[ampha]

OP: interesting quotes.

Maogirl - I know you are right there. I am 1.5 generation since I came over at early age. I remember growing up in China where if you don't know how to fight, you are pretty much dead meat. I mean there is like a bully in every school that would take your lunch or whatever. Since there is no guns, everything was done with fists. We are talking about elementary schools here. I remember I used to hear about fights between 50 guys and another guy and his 50 friends. Those gang fights were common. Also, if your little brother gets beat up, it is up to you to avenge him as his older brother. God knows I got into number of those fights too.

Does this mean that the school gang fights depicted in Korean movies are actually based in reality?


Another thing is they complain about Asian men being nerdy or dorky or whatever, yet they turn around and date the dorkiest white men around. If you are in the Bay Area, you will notice majority of WM/AF pairs are not exactly the model looking type but more less on the revenge of the nerd type. Those white men are not exactly tall and I hardly ever seen a muscular white guy with an AF. The only difference I can see from Asian men they complained about from these white men is just skin color.

Right on. I never understood this incongruity between thought and action, leading to a girl dating someone far below her league. Like an 8 dating a 6.

[RebelAzn]

Does this mean that the school gang fights depicted in Korean movies are actually based in reality?

I am pretty sure they are real. I mean when I was a little kid in school I always have to have a few friends that got my back. If there was a fight, it always turn into some kind of gang fight. Put it this way, weak kids would have a hard time making it. I was skinny as hell when I was little, but you still need to learn how to defend yourself. You see this a lot in Asian movies and part of it is true. I still remember one story in the newspaper where cops have to break up a gang fight of 400 people. It was like 250 vs. 150 or something. You piss off one guy and next thing you know he brings 100 of his friends.

As for this disparity thing, I think some guys are making way too big deal of it. With most Asian American guys I know, most are all married and some have kids. The Internet forums make it sound like every Asian guy is single and looking for a date. I am much more concerned the growing gender divide between Asian American men and women in general. We got some Asian American women at higher posts as basically puppets of white men. Once the overall community is weak, it will be much harder to push for Asian American issues to rest of the America.

[wuwei]

I am pretty sure they are real. I mean when I was a little kid in school I always have to have a few friends that got my back. If there was a fight, it always turn into some kind of gang fight. Put it this way, weak kids would have a hard time making it. I was skinny as hell when I was little, but you still need to learn how to defend yourself. You see this a lot in Asian movies and part of it is true. I still remember one story in the newspaper where cops have to break up a gang fight of 400 people. It was like 250 vs. 150 or something. You piss off one guy and next thing you know he brings 100 of his friends.

As for this disparity thing, I think some guys are making way too big deal of it. Within most Asian American guys I know, most are all married and some have kids. The Internet forums make it sound like every Asian guy is single and looking for a date. I am much more concerned the growing gender divide between Asian American men and women in general. We got some Asian American women at higher posts as basically puppets of white men. Once the overall community is weak, it will be much harder to push for Asian American issues to rest of the America.

The whole concept of "saving face" in China, mix that with youthful recklessness. the school yards there are much more violent than the school yards here, the only difference being they dont have access to guns.

[justanotherguy]

Pretty interesting to read but it would be nice to get some input from more non-asian female. They actually have more constructive things to say. Most of the comments from asian male and female are lame and retarded. Not to mention a few posts written by the white male including this one:
“Black guys go for white girls. White guys go for Asian girls. Asian guys turn gay or kill themselves.” –White male

[maogirl]

The whole concept of "saving face" in China, mix that with youthful recklessness. the school yards there are much more violent than the school yards here, the only difference being they dont have access to guns.

well, to sidetrack the thread even more, i think it's also a class issue. kids from lower and higher classes are more likely to get into trouble because they have less to lose.

middle class kids, i notice, are usually meeker and more likely to follow rules because they suffer most from being bad (as opposed to lower class kids who already have got the shitty end of the stick, and rich kids who can get away with more stuff).

[Heyyu]

From the comments, it seems to me that there's more black and Latino women out there that are very open to dating Asian guys. Speaking of which, what about Indian and Middle Eastern women? I'd like to hear some more comments from them too... I mean, they're Asian but are usually excluded from most East and SE Asian mindset.

In other words, there's hope out there fella's if you can't get any poontang from the white and Asian girls who think they're too good for ya'