Asian Marriage Data

[RebelAzn]

Here are the Statistics (2000 Census)
All Asian Americans: Percentages of the Six Largest Asian Ethnic
Groups who are Married to ...

ASIAN INDIAN AMERICANS
Husbands Asian Indians 90.2% Other Asians 2.0% Whites 7.1% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.7%
Wives Asian Indians 92.6% Other Asians 2.1% Whites 3.7% Blacks 0.7% Hispanics/Latinos 0.5%

CHINESE AMERICANS
Husbands Chinese 81.5% Other Asians 8.3% Whites 8.9% Blacks 0.3% Hispanics/Latinos 1.0%
Wives Chinese 77.9% Other Asians 5.6% Whites 15.3% Blacks 0.5% Hispanics/Latinos 1.4%

FILIPINO AMERICANS
Husbands Filipinos 77.3% Other Asians 4.7% Whites 13.0% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 3.2%
Wives Filipinos 55.2% Other Asians 5.6% Whites 33.4% Blacks 2.4% Hispanics/Latinos 3.4%

JAPANESE AMERICANS
Husbands Japanese 72.3% Other Asians 7.9% Whites 13.5% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 3.3%
Wives Japanese 55.2% Other Asians 5.1% Whites 34.9% Blacks 1.2% Hispanics/Latinos 1.6%

KOREAN AMERICANS
Husbands Korean 92.3% Other Asians 1.4% Whites 4.4% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.5%
Wives Korean 62.0% Other Asians 5.8% Whites 28.8% Blacks 2.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.6%

VIETNAMESE AMERICANS
Husbands Vietnamese 91.1% Other Asians 5.4% Whites 2.7% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.0%
Wives Vietnamese 86.6% Other Asians 3.9% Whites 9.5% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.4%
================================================== =====
US Born or 1.5 Generation: Percentages of the Six Largest Asian Ethnic Groups who are Married to ..

ASIAN INDIAN AMERICANS
Husbands Asian Indians 65.2% Other Asians 4.3% Whites 27.3% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 4.3%
Wives Asian Indians 54.2% Other Asians 0.0% Whites 39.1% Blacks 4.3% Hispanics/Latinos 4.2%

CHINESE AMERICANS
Husbands Chinese 55.5% Other Asians 18.5% Whites 27.2% Blacks 1.4% Hispanics/Latinos 2.6%
Wives Chinese 54.6% Other Asians 14.6% Whites 27.2% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 3.8%

FILIPINO AMERICANS
Husbands Filipinos 47.0% Other Asians 13.0% Whites 35.9% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 8.0%
Wives Filipinos 31.5% Other Asians 7.3% Whites 51.8% Blacks 4.4% Hispanics/Latinos 8.1%

JAPANESE AMERICANS
Husbands Japanese 68.4% Other Asians 10.8% Whites 15.4% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 4.0%
Wives Japanese 64.8% Other Asians 10.3% Whites 23.5% Blacks 0.4% Hispanics/Latinos 1.3%

KOREAN AMERICANS
Husbands Korean 54.3% Other Asians 8.3% Whites 34.8% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 4.2%
Wives Korean 20.0% Other Asians 25.0% Whites 50.0% Blacks 2.6% Hispanics/Latinos 5.0%

VIETNAMESE AMERICANS
Husbands Vietnamese 66.7% Other Asians 20.8% Whites 8.3% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.0%
Wives Vietnamese 66.7% Other Asians 12.5% Whites 25.0% Blacks 0.0% Hispanics/Latinos 0.4%
================================================== =

These are 2000 data. I am sure 2004 or later are similar. At least this shows who is marrying whom. What Asian groups are marrying whites and others etc. It answers a lot of questions and it has a lot to do with culture and expectation of women in that culture.

Some interesting data:

Asian Indians - Most foreign born marry to each other. Among American born, 12% more of women marry to whites. Indian American women don't really marry other Asians but some to blacks.

Chinese - Both Chinese men and women pretty much marry to each other and marry out to whites/other Asians pretty evenly. This is pretty even among American born Chinese as well. This is probably to do with Chinese women being fairly equal with men. After communist in China, most women in China work and Chinese men in China also cook and do house chores. Chinese women also controls most Chinese families. Perhaps Chinese people just love each :) So Chinese Americans are not the ones creating the interracial marriage disparity.

Filipino - A lot more women out marry to whites than men. Same for both foreign born and American born.

Japanese - Much more foreign Japanese AFs marry whites than men. Among Japanese Americans, the number of outmarriage is slightly higher for females but fairly even with men. Japanese men marry more latinos.

Korean - Now this is where there is a huge surprise. Korean women out marrying Korean men at a much faster rate. With Korean Americans, only 20% of females marry other Korean males. With 25% of 1.5 or US born females marry to other Asians vs. 8.3% for men. I suspect many of these marriages are to Chinese American men since I personally know many of these couples just within my immediate circle of friends including one of my brothers. Also, 50% of 1.5/US born females marry whites vs. 34.8% of men.

Vietnamese - Foreign born slight more female than men. Among American born, much more American born/1.5 Gen females marrying whites than men.


These data are probably showing who is dating whom. What Asian females are the ones marrying to white people and which group(s) are the ones that have created the interracial dating/marriage disparity with whites. I suspect a lot of this has to do partly with culture and how they treat women within those cultures. Also, it probably has to do with economics with poorer groups out marrying richer ones.

[Vahz]

I'm friends with many Korean guys and one of them has a sister that is one year older than us. During high school, she was the smartest, most popular, and hottest Korean girl there was and she ended up marrying a Chinese guy. The thing is, her and her brothers were all about that hardcore Korean pride.

I've noticed that the 50% of Korean women dating out seems about right. In my experiences, Korean women are always on the opposite side of the spectrum. They're of either the hardcore Korean, or at least Asian, pride type or they're the completely whitewashed "I only date white guys" type.

It's weird.

However, I must add that your posting of these statistics don't seem to match Seraph's statistics on proudasianamerican.com because, from what I see, the 1.5 intermarriage rate for Chinese females is 31% and has increased to 40% in 2004 which doesn't seem to be good news. Though, on the other side, it has decreased for just about every other Asian female, especially the 2nd generation Korean women with a 15% decline.

I just wanted to make one point clear, I'm not against interracial dating but I would honestly prefer Asian women to be with Asian men. And no, I'm not a hypocrite. I also wish for Asian men to be with Asian women, not white women.

[RebelAzn]

One thing about 2004 is it seems many Asian Americans are marrying each other. In the long run, it could increase the Asian American awareness as whole. I know there used to be a lot of differences even among Asian groups, but inter-ethnic marriage might be one way to overcome this.

Either way, these data are interesting and it does show a lot of dynamics within the community.

[Scowl]

However, I must add that your posting of these statistics don't seem to match Seraph's statistics on proudasianamerican.com because, from what I see, the 1.5 intermarriage rate for Chinese females is 31% and has increased to 40% in 2004 which doesn't seem to be good news.

Depends on who they're marrying. If they're marrying other Asians more often, then the numbers for marrying out would go up, but the numbers for marrying non-Asian would go down.

[santoki]

Interesting to see this data. I wonder how (Korean) adoptees registered during that census. I know that a certain percentage perceives themselves as white. That means they would check the "I am white" box (if there is one..., never been in the US during a census).

Marriage, I would claim that almost 80-90% of the females are marrying white whereas the male adoptees have a less higher number. If a male adoptee is married he tends to have an asian wife. Not a white one...

I think somehow the numbers just show the reality and with adoptees it's even extremer....
Unfortunately there is no census/stats on adoptees which is really reliable. I'm still waiting for that study to happen. There were some studies done in the past but it's 5a.m. and I'm just too tired to dig up those.

[Vahz]

I think that Seraph's figure on www.proudasianamerican.com came out to be 87% for Korean female adoptees and about 50% for the men.

However, that number doesn't make a huge impact considering the numbers of adoptees in the country.

[kwak76]

I just got to vent..

Last night I went to k-town with a friend. I could vouch the high dating rate of k-girls with white guys. I think I counted 7-8 yokojohn couples in K-town and I didn't even see one single brucelinda.


What I couldn't understand is why are there so many yokojohn's hanging out in K-town? and if people say that 2nd generation K-guys are playing catch up to inter-racial dating shouldn't I have seen more brucelinda?

anyway I just had to vent a little. When I think about the next generation of asian americans ..that is if we are going to have a next generation of asian americans I don't see enough proof of it when I go out in the city.

[cattygurl]

This is just my personal observations...

It seems the girls tend more often to choose where they want to go for dates. I've found that a lot of my asian guy friend that had non-asian girlfriends would end up at a more general location (the movies, the beach, etc) and more at the girl's hangouts when they're with the girl. When they're with their guy friends, they'll go where they want to go.

I've found more of a tendency for women to be more insistent on introducing "their" culture to the guys moreso than the guys- who seem more often to take the attitude that it will happen on its own.

Also, women that came to the US as a result of marriage (vs growing up here) tend to stick to their ethnic community in their new home.

If I was a betting person, I'd say there are many more men with stronger racial fetishes than women.

I've also found that asian women that have issues with being asian STILL hang out in asian enclaves, and bring their significant others there- while I found that asian guys that aren't comfortable being asian tend to avoid them, alone, with a date- or otherwise.

I'm curious if anyone else has seen this type of pattern too?

[ampha]

Are these numbers straight from the census (i.e. census.gov)? There is a similar set of numbers from asian-nation.org (http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml), but the two sets differ slightly. Just wanted to compare sources.

I also chuckled at yokojohn/brucelinda. Hadn't heard that before.

[santoki]

I think that Seraph's figure on www.proudasianamerican.com came out to be 87% for Korean female adoptees and about 50% for the men.

However, that number doesn't make a huge impact considering the numbers of adoptees in the country.

There are about 100,000 Korean adoptees in the USA. Of course that doesn't really make an impact on the total number. For me the more interesting aspect is as how it does change the numbers compared to the "Asian-Asian" population, or how are the numbers compared to 1.5 or 2nd generation Korean Americans.

The document on proudasian.com doesn't open, do you have it by any chance?

Also interesting is that almost all adoptees from China that come into the USA these days are female. According to the statistics by the US Dept. of State (http://travel.state.gov/family/adoption/stats/stats_451.html) China has been source number one since 2000, although Korea still is number 4 in 2006.

With more and more Asian children immigrating to the US as adoptees I think this might be a development that needs to be observed.

[Vahz]

I just want to know how long the Asian community would last if the US were to shut down immigration tomorrow.

A Latino friend of mine has also stated to me that the interracial marriage rate proves how much a particular group has been accepted by the mainstream. Asians, in general, are the most accepted. However, Asian women are far ahead of Asian men. The more accepted you are, he theorizes, the higher the interracial marriage rate should be because, in essence, it's like marrying into another family.

I countered that why don't hispanic women outmarry as much?

He responded that while Latinos aren't as respected due to stereotypes, they also have a fierce sense of self identity which is almost to the point of racist. He was trying to say that Asian Americans would rather kiss up and be absorbed by the ones with power at the cost of their own communities rather than building their own communities to be just as powerful in it's own right.

I've never really realized why other non-Asian minorities always viewed Asian Americans as the sellouts and "Uncle Toms" but as I read deeper and deeper into their reasonings, I'm starting to understand.

We would honestly rather go the path of least resistance even though it's incorrect rather than taking the difficult but correct path.

[theme]

I just got to vent..

Last night I went to k-town with a friend. I could vouch the high dating rate of k-girls with white guys. I think I counted 7-8 yokojohn couples in K-town and I didn't even see one single brucelinda.


What I couldn't understand is why are there so many yokojohn's hanging out in K-town? and if people say that 2nd generation K-guys are playing catch up to inter-racial dating shouldn't I have seen more brucelinda?

anyway I just had to vent a little. When I think about the next generation of asian americans ..that is if we are going to have a next generation of asian americans I don't see enough proof of it when I go out in the city.

it's not as simple as just seeing more am/wf couples. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but interracial statistics only list people who are married. But since there are far more people who are dating, you're likely to see wm/af numbers double and triple the marriage numbers. I.e., for ever wm/af couple who are married, there are like 7 wm/af couples who are just 'dating' or 'fuck buddies'.

[Vahz]

I know someone up that brought up a good point. He reported that in a poll on an Asian site about interracial dating, there was a poll. It asked if 1.) You date strictly Asian, 2.) You date strictly white or 3.) You date either.

He noticed that 23% of the female respondents selected #2. That's about a quarter of the women in one shot. About 50% reported dating both and the rest were strictly Asian.

That explains alot. Even if you do some casual browsing on Match.com, you'll notice that those percentages are about right. At least, it was for my area of NYC.

There was a quote at the bottom of the article that read:

"I think most Asian women, myself included, have at some point gone through the "Asian man" hate cycle. Some have recovered. Some never will."

Pretty scary stuff.

[theme]

I know someone up that brought up a good point. He reported that in a poll on an Asian site about interracial dating, there was a poll. It asked if 1.) You date strictly Asian, 2.) You date strictly white or 3.) You date either.

He noticed that 23% of the female respondents selected #2. That's about a quarter of the women in one shot. About 50% reported dating both and the rest were strictly Asian.

That explains alot. Even if you do some casual browsing on Match.com, you'll notice that those percentages are about right. At least, it was for my area of NYC.

There was a quote at the bottom of the article that read:

"I think most Asian women, myself included, have at some point gone through the "Asian man" hate cycle. Some have recovered. Some never will."

Pretty scary stuff.

How is that a good point? We already know a lot of asian women date strictly whites.

[Ike]

Hm... I have a statistics project that's due soon. Maybe I should make my own survey and ask the Asian women who go to college around here.

[Vahz]

Well, I'm just saying is all. I didn't know it was that high.

What I find to find out, and hopefully do some research on, is why does this hatred exists in the first place? Is there some type of requirement where hatred of Asian men is the only way to allow them to date whites?

Recently, a white friend of mine was going out on a date with an Asian girl and she kept going on and on about why Asian men suck. He was quickly turned off by her self loathing (he's very aware of the disparity and superficial reasons behind some interracial couples) and got rid of her.

His admirable quote was that he despises racists and he couldn't, in good conseince, date someone who was racist against her own.

I really really want to find some of these women and ask why. A big segment is that Asian men are sexist but while that may be true for Asians in Asia or recent immigrants, I've never seen that in any of the boys/men from the newer and younger generation,

Anyone ever have encounters with these women and asked why?

[RebelAzn]

Well, I'm just saying is all. I didn't know it was that high.

What I find to find out, and hopefully do some research on, is why does this hatred exists in the first place? Is there some type of requirement where hatred of Asian men is the only way to allow them to date whites?

Recently, a white friend of mine was going out on a date with an Asian girl and she kept going on and on about why Asian men suck. He was quickly turned off by her self loathing (he's very aware of the disparity and superficial reasons behind some interracial couples) and got rid of her.

His admirable quote was that he despises racists and he couldn't, in good conseince, date someone who was racist against her own.

I really really want to find some of these women and ask why. A big segment is that Asian men are sexist but while that may be true for Asians in Asia or recent immigrants, I've never seen that in any of the boys/men from the newer and younger generation,

Anyone ever have encounters with these women and asked why?


Well I can only speak from my own personal experience. When I first started dating Asian women after the identify crisis phase, I had some of the following experiences:

Type #1 - Some AFs I dated said I was the first Asian guy they dated and I am not like other Asian guys. Perhaps physically I was a pretty big or perhaps I was always loud and bit aggressive. Back then, I never understood what they truly meant. As I got older and start to understand some of the racial dynamics, I started to understand these women better. Some of the things I found in these women:

a) They usually grow up with whites and very few Asians
b) They believe in the stereotype of Asians from the white media. For example, they think all Asian men are short, small and not much fun. Where I used to live had a lot of recent Vietnamese immigrants or boat people. A lot of the guys were pretty short probably due to malnutrition. They are not exposed to a lot of other Asians or Asian Americans and think Asians are like the few they saw on the street. Basically, they look at Asians like a white person would.
c) They are into whites and they perhaps are little interested in the Asian men because they were finally learning about Asian culture. Obviously if they had no interest in the Asian culture they would never have gone out with me in the 1st place.
d) They are quite a bit insecure when they are surrounded by other Asians. They think white people won't think of them as "American". Most of them are in denial that white people look at most Asians as foreigners regardless how many generations we have been here.

Type #2 - These are what you called "white washed" type of AFs. Most of them probably won't be caught dead with another Asian in public cause they probably think they are white. Obviously I never dated any of those due to obvious reasons. I think many of them are pretty insecure of who they are and some are in serious denial of who they are. These are probably the type that would relentless bash Asian men in front of white people trying to distance herself from other Asians because somehow she thinks she is more white and "cool".

Type #1 sometimes will get into Asian American culture once they discover there are many other people like them. I have met a few that said they have no interest in Asian men that ended up marrying Asian men after they met other Asian Americans. I met some of those in CA. Many of those are from the mid-west or east coast that grew up with very little Asian people. Obviously Asian American culture is thriving in the CA where there are large parties etc. where more Americanized Asians hang out.

Bottom line is I really don't have an issue with interracial marriage if it is based on healthy reasons like where both people actually like each other etc. The problem with Asian Americans is it gets really complicated due to isolation in white community, self identity crisis and other self esteem issues due to life long intense white media brainwashing. Also the fact men and women are stereotyped differently and that's the reason for the disparity in dating/marriage. There is a reason why most Asians marry white vs. other minorities. Obviously many AFs are trying to fit into the white community due to constant image of whites being in power. I seriously would have way more respect for an AF that is dating a Latino or black than a white guy because I know she is going against the status quo.

I think if a borderline type #1s or type #2s do not grow out this phase, they will probably have many other issues in life than just dating and their identity. Their fragile egos could get crushed anytime due to various events in their life. Example, if they ever experience racism for the first time everI think they won't know what to do. I hate to think how they would raise their kids. Are they going to teach these kids to deny everything Asian too?

I am not going to sit here and blame these AFs or AMs 100% cause I realize how powerful each person's environment is. If some of you constantly bash these people without truly understand where they are coming from it also only shows insecurity on your part. The problem is much deeper than just the surface. Dating white men is just a summary of these problems manifesting itself. The constantly white media brainwashing is very powerful. It takes a lot for some of us to outgrow this phase. Some of us do and some of us may never outgrow that phase. The ones that don't outgrow the phase usually marry a white person and end up living in another isolated white community and the cycle starts over with their mixed kids. I think it is also part Asian American community's job to try to reach these people and hopefully get them to see other Asians as people vs. through white stereotypes. It is up to the Asian American community to create more positive role models in the media to counter these constant brain washing.

After I had a better understanding of whats going on, the first thing I usually try to find out when I first meet an AF is usually if she is secure with who she is. By secure I mean with her identity as an Asian growing up in America. If she is secure usually means she is confident in who she is and it translates to many other areas in her life. As many people have said, confidence is very attractive and that's true in a female also.

[Vahz]

Well said, Rebel. I speak from experience since I used to belong to the "D" group that you mentioned.

I never went out of my way to bash Asians but I felt uncomfortable being around them. This was carried all the way through college even though I was in NYC. The idea of hanging around too many Asians might be viewed as less American in the eyes of whites and would be treated as such. The desperation to fit into the landscape and be included was just too strong.

However, there are also other factors that one has to include. For example, when Asian women hold these stereotypes of Asian men, they're see them from recently immigrated Asians which comprise about 50% of the total Asian population. They then seem to project these stereotypes onto Asian American men.

Many women are surprised when they hear me open my mouth because though I might be a tad short at 5'7", I have a really deep booming voice.

To be honest, almost all of these recent immigrated Asian men fall into these stereotypes. Not outgoing, no dress style, thin as a rail, etc. In this country, being passive is not going to win hearts when it comes to dating for men. However, women are allowed to be passive and still get dates because men are supposed to be doing the asking.

[theme]

Well said, Rebel. I speak from experience since I used to belong to the "D" group that you mentioned.

I never went out of my way to bash Asians but I felt uncomfortable being around them. This was carried all the way through college even though I was in NYC. The idea of hanging around too many Asians might be viewed as less American in the eyes of whites and would be treated as such. The desperation to fit into the landscape and be included was just too strong.

However, there are also other factors that one has to include. For example, when Asian women hold these stereotypes of Asian men, they're see them from recently immigrated Asians which comprise about 50% of the total Asian population. They then seem to project these stereotypes onto Asian American men.

Many women are surprised when they hear me open my mouth because though I might be a tad short at 5'7", I have a really deep booming voice.

To be honest, almost all of these recent immigrated Asian men fall into these stereotypes. Not outgoing, no dress style, thin as a rail, etc. In this country, being passive is not going to win hearts when it comes to dating for men. However, women are allowed to be passive and still get dates because men are supposed to be doing the asking.


Actually, I think you should leave FOBs alone. For whatever reason americanized asians like to pick on fobs as much as whites like to pick on asians, so I'm going to say it here and now, leave FOBs alone. I've had mostly good experiences with non-americanized Asians whereas ones who grew up here I sometimes have a problem with.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

And for the record, you seem to be blaming everyone. If you want to meet an asian woman, go up to one and say hi. If you fail, move on to another. Don't blame fobs or others.

thanks.

[Vahz]

I'm not singling out or blaming FOBs for these problems. I know there are many nice recently immigrated Asian people but it's hard to ignore their mannerisms when it comes to adapting to the American way of life.

For example, many of the Asians in Asia or recent immigrant males just don't fit into the classic form of what Western or Americanized Asian women find attractive. I'm not bashing them but you have to acknowledge that fact.

Almost all these stereotypes that Asian-man haters seem to pertain to recent immigrants and, in turn, gets lumped onto Americanized Asians.

I also ran by this article on Tim Wise's website and it's a very good read. It seems to prove my theory that parents are pressing their children to assimulate into white culture at the expense of their own.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/19582/

"It's unfortunate that for many Asian-American women there's peer pressure and pressure from parents to assimilate to white culture," Ching said. "We're just living in an environment that pollutes the culture."

"Being white is also often portrayed as being 'cooler' than being Asian," Wang said and went on to explain a concept that only Asian-American women would have to consider: being a "Twinkie," or – like the mass-marketed sugary dessert product – a person who is regarded as yellow on the outside and white on the inside. Some Asian-American girls, said Wang, consider it a compliment. But she finds it offensive.

"Asian girls that are Twinkies are just trying to assimilate," said Wang. "They are just trying to fit in and belong, but I don't think it's cool. Young Asian girls now have a very tough time dealing with the ideals of beauty they see in the media and in magazines. I think it is important for Asian women to keep their culture and learn to appreciate themselves."

[Subwaybrum]

Most asian raised asians i've seen dress well :S

[theme]

I'm not singling out or blaming FOBs for these problems. I know there are many nice recently immigrated Asian people but it's hard to ignore their mannerisms when it comes to adapting to the American way of life.

For example, many of the Asians in Asia or recent immigrant males just don't fit into the classic form of what Western or Americanized Asian women find attractive. I'm not bashing them but you have to acknowledge that fact.

Almost all these stereotypes that Asian-man haters seem to pertain to recent immigrants and, in turn, gets lumped onto Americanized Asians.

I also ran by this article on Tim Wise's website and it's a very good read. It seems to prove my theory that parents are pressing their children to assimulate into white culture at the expense of their own.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/19582/

"It's unfortunate that for many Asian-American women there's peer pressure and pressure from parents to assimilate to white culture," Ching said. "We're just living in an environment that pollutes the culture."

"Being white is also often portrayed as being 'cooler' than being Asian," Wang said and went on to explain a concept that only Asian-American women would have to consider: being a "Twinkie," or – like the mass-marketed sugary dessert product – a person who is regarded as yellow on the outside and white on the inside. Some Asian-American girls, said Wang, consider it a compliment. But she finds it offensive.

"Asian girls that are Twinkies are just trying to assimilate," said Wang. "They are just trying to fit in and belong, but I don't think it's cool. Young Asian girls now have a very tough time dealing with the ideals of beauty they see in the media and in magazines. I think it is important for Asian women to keep their culture and learn to appreciate themselves."


So it's okay to treat fobs as the 'other' i suppose.

how ironic.

[Vahz]

I know I'm going to catch alot of flak for asking the following but it's difficult to learn unless you have the courage to ask.

From what I've seen, the largest group involved with a non-Korean partner are Korean women.

Here goes...

Can anyone, who's Korean, vouch for the idea that maybe Korean men are more sexist and demanding of Korean women? Don't get me wrong, I know many Korean men that are not like this but could it be something I'm not seeing? I'm simply inquiring the opinions of Korean Americans and it's not my wish to start some type of intra-Asian argument.

I'm a Chinese guy who was dating a beautiful Korean girl in high school and she had two annoying traits which I always disliked because it showed weakness in a woman. She would very rarely look me in the eye and her head would always seem to tilt down. It's not a normal habit she had with her female friends or while in class talking to a teacher. However, whenever she would come across Asian men, these traits would be in full effect.

I told her about my concern and constantly had to lift her head up when we were talking so she would look at me. She confided in me that growing up with a strict father and with 3 brothers added to the mentality that women should be placed second.

I've heard of this in many Asian, not only Korean, families but was wondering if it's especially rooted in Korean culture.

/hides

[Vahz]

So it's okay to treat fobs as the 'other' i suppose.

how ironic.

Then where do you suppose it comes from? If it's not from Asia raised Asians with these mannerisms, is it from Asian Americans? I'm just going by personal experiences that some of those stereotypes of Asian men seem to be coming from recent immigrants. Not saying they're all like that but there are quite a few that seem to fit into it.

/shrug

[Ike]

The FOBs that I know (granted, they are all 1.5 gen because I'm young) are the ones who are MOST secure in who they are. The US born AAs are the ones who go through identity issues and try to be white.

Also, I think it's an American thing to dress terribly. Just take a look around.

[RebelAzn]

I will try to discuss various points since my last post.

1) On the subject of FOB - First of all, I don't have a problem with any FOB or how they are. Most Asian American (AA) kids resent them because some of them resemble all the stereotypes of Asians in the media and many AAs feel it somehow reflect badly on them through white people's eyes. The reason for this is due to insecurities of AAs. It goes back to not being secure with you are and struggling with your identity to fit in and don't want to be reminded of anything (FOBs) that might reflect badly on you or bring you down. As I mentioned before, many FOBs are more secure with their identities than AAs. I think it is a problem of America society that they don't accept people who are different. Since young, many AAs believe that you either assimilate or get made fun of. What most AAs fail to understand is there is nothing wrong with being able to embrace both cultures. Each AA can be their own unique person and there is no reason to try to be white. I have been to other countries where people don't batter an eye at you because you look Asian (for ex: Brazil) and it is indeed seem strange. Sure many people thought I was Japanese but that's more has to do with the fact I looked like a tourist. If I spoke Portuguese fluently and I was with other Asians who do, many Brazilians are extremely friendly to us. Because Asian Brazilian men don't have all the hangups and stereotypes of AAs, you see many of them dating Brazilian women. If you go to a Brazilian mall, it is not uncommon to see more Asian men with Brazilian women than Asian women with Brazilian men. It is so utterly different than here. Also, I was approached by a bunch of Brazilian women for a various reasons. Some of them are probably looking for a green card and some are working girls but over there they have no problem approaching an Asian man.

2) I also forgot there is another type of AFs that date non-Asian men. These are AFs that have a fairly good idea of who they are and they are open to date both AMs and men of other colors. Most end up dating WMs because WMs approach them the most. Some of my Asian ex-gfs have told me out of maybe 10 guys that hit on them, 8 would be white and 2 would be Asian. Naturally, they have more choices with white men.

3) Dating - I had in-depth discussion about interracial dating when I was young (19) with white girls. Many of told me yeah they think some Asian guys are cute and they would be open to date them but none EVER ask them out. I heard the same comment from some black girls too. After I knew that at a young age, I did not let hat be a limiting factor in hitting on women and as a result, I have dated whole rainbow of women. Women want men to approach them and I think most Asian men just don't do any of that. I see the behavior at Asian parties too, where Asian guys don't hit on Asian women either. It is not a coincidence that aggressive men in general get far more dates than passive guys. Have I been rejected, of course I have and I am sure some of them didn't like me because I am Asian too. I understand in Asia men are not taught to "hit" on women and many do get set up by their parents when they are ready to marry. AAs have to learn the skill the hard way in America and due to all the various negative stereotypes, they find it hard to crawl out of their shells and go after women. Before I had in-depth discussion with white women, I used to believe that too. Of course I have tested this theory many many times and the truth is if you have confidence, all women of any race find that attractive. I still remember a few times I was out with my brother in the middle of Colorado bar where we are the only Asian guys in the entire place. We would approach girls in that bar one after another and we got plenty of interaction that night. If it works in Colorado, I am sure it will work in places there are far more Asians.

4) On the subject of Korean girls - I think it has a lot to do with expectation of women in a Korean family. This is the same reason why many Japanese females seek foreigners because many don't want that stay home be a wife life after they get married. I have also dated many Korean girl. Some have told me Chinese men expect much less from women than Korean men. I think it probably is true to a certain extend. I grew up with my mother expecting all the boys do family chores since she also worked. I watched a documentary on Discovery channel regarding Shanghai and it seems many Chinese men in China now also cook and do house work. I think communism has fixed many of those patriarch behaviors with old Chinese Confucius family values. Or maybe it is because there will be shortage of women in China and Chinese men just have to work that much harder to get a girl nowadays.

What am I trying to say after all this? Well I think it is America's problem not accepting people who are differently openly. There is nothing wrong with being a FOB, white, Chinese, black or whatever. People are different and each should be judged as an individual vs. as a whole group. This i s why stereotypes are very ugly especially if they are all negative. I think AAs need to focus on changing the stereotypes in the media, which is the root of many problems in the 1st place.

[Vahz]

This is an interesting analysis of the false idea that more immigration is making the dating disparity decrease. I pretty much agree with it.

http://ampha.org/2007/02/immigration-slows-rate-of-racial-intermarriage/

[cattygurl]

I'm may get flamed big time for this, but here goes...

A lot of sexist ideals in the Asian community- and it also happens with non-asian communities- I've found- tend to have a religious bent. I think the more religious tend to take gender roles more seriously. I'll also say that those that have a lot of formal education can be more flexible than those that have not, those that come from cities vs those that do not.

There tends to be a very economic nature to inter-racial relationships. If these censuses were split- not just race, but income, the middle to upper middle of all minorities tend to intermarry more than those that are outside of that arena. One of the most important non-racial indicators of marriage (and also an indicator of higher success rates) is based on the economic status of both partners. Statistically, similar economic backgrounds tend to have a far higher chance of success over those that marry across economic status.

Honestly, a lot of Japanese women don't actively seek out foreign men. They're not opposed to the idea of dating out, but a lot of them don't want to leave the country permanently. It's considered a novelty experience more than anything. I also think it's exaggerated. For younger generations- especially- men don't expect women to be housewives and bear kids very much. Recent surveys I've seen show that both men and women respond very similarly on questions of marriage, i.e. working spouses (men and women both indicated that they like having working spouses), children (both men and women responded in similar numbers about being open to kids- meaning they can swing either way) and the number one obstacle to getting married (mostly economic). The views of marriage and family is changing really rapidly in Japan.

[Vahz]

Well, if that's true, why are Asian men stigmatized with being sexist while white men are not and why does it figure so highly into the minds of Asian women?

I think many Asian women rail against the patriarchal system that many Asian societies operate under. The only problem is that they can't seem to decipher between Asia and Asian Americans. When I visited Shanghai, it seems to be very equal in terms of the roles of Asian men and women.

I'm actually thinking of gathering all the information I can, from both perspectives, and making a website about it.

I'm more along the belief that many Asian women just want to date white men because they honestly believe that white men are better than Asian men. They believe in their heart that there are just as many good Asian men as white men but don't want to seem racist and hide behind some excuse to justify their actions rather than appear shallow.

If we're not sexist, we're too short. If we're tall, it's because we're not confident. If we're confident, it's because we're not assertive. If we're assertive, it's because we're too skinny. If we're built like an ox, we're too muscular. If we're athletic and toned, it's because we have two arms. If we only have one arm, it's because we only have one arm.

[DONKEY]

I think many Asian women rail against the patriarchal system that many Asian societies operate under. The only problem is that they can't seem to decipher between Asia and Asian Americans. When I visited Shanghai, it seems to be very equal in terms of the roles of Asian men and women.

this is common but also among AA men ive met. the AA men who date/marry outside of their race explained that Asian women were "too conservative" for them. the AA women who date/marry outside of their race said similar things, the exact same things in some cases. so it leaves me wondering what is going on here? maybe each did not give the other a chance for some reason.
i notice this same pattern among some other non-Asian groups in america.

[RebelAzn]

Well, if that's true, why are Asian men stigmatized with being sexist while white men are not and why does it figure so highly into the minds of Asian women?

I think many Asian women rail against the patriarchal system that many Asian societies operate under. The only problem is that they can't seem to decipher between Asia and Asian Americans. When I visited Shanghai, it seems to be very equal in terms of the roles of Asian men and women.

I'm actually thinking of gathering all the information I can, from both perspectives, and making a website about it.

Vahz - It is called stereotyping. I mean all Asian and Asian American men are different based on how they grew up. Some Asian women do stereotype Asian men like a white person would. Like I said in my previous posts, it is due to where they grew up, how they are treated in their own family etc. etc.

As for me personally (I am Chinese American), I fully expect my wife to work. I don't have a problem with her making more money than me if it comes to that. None of my brothers expect their wives to stay home and most would prefer their wives work. I think it is important for women to have a career also because if they stay home 24x7, they go crazy and in return drive you crazy. Of course, not every woman is like that. I think there are probably many Asian American men with my kind of mentality out there. In some areas of CA, there is no way you can have a great life without dual income cause the houses are so expensive here.

[cattygurl]

Well, if that's true, why are Asian men stigmatized with being sexist while white men are not and why does it figure so highly into the minds of Asian women?


Men don't have the corner on sexism. Women can be just as bad, too.

A lot of the people that have the mindset tend to be from areas without a large asian community, and they tend to have parents that enforce strong gender roles. Or, they've gotten burned by people through experience.

There's going to be more variations within a majority population vs a minority one in cases like the US. It's often a sheer numbers game. The larger the population, the increased chance of fragmentation and variation.

It's not that Asians don't have variation- of course we do. It's just less visible because there's just less of us. A lot of people don't look past their own experiences. A lot of ppl can't detect subtleties. I think that in some minority communities, the sexism can be more vocal or expressed, or easier to detect because of the traditional format and rigidity- I think it exists as much in majority populations, but it *can* be more subtle, more fluid, more pervasive, and very present- which actually makes it harder to counteract in many ways. A minority female activist talked about sexism in the minority community being like a wall, vs sexism in the majority community being like a fog. They both fuck you up, but a wall can be clearly seen while a fog may not. a wall takes up limited space, a fog goes fucking everywhere. Also, the way that sexism is noticed can be different. I think a lot of asian women tend to feel that WM are less sexist because- cursory observation of the white community CAN yield a very fragmented and disparate group (which helps out the white = individuals, minorities are not stereotype). Therefore, WM are not all the same. However, that has little to do with whites being more variable- it's just that they're a majority and fragmentation is more visible and possible in larger numbers/populations. Also, recognizing sexism is somewhat cultural. So, the type of sexism that the receive in their culture don't always apply to the sexism that's rampant in other cultures. So, the answer is: I think they're not detecting the sexism outside of their familiar and familial boundaries, and that, in combination with media influences, combined with a cursory observation of whites being more variable and less cohesive, = some ideas on the stereotyping of asian men as being more patriarchal.

The one thing I do notice is that I do see more WM speak out against sexism, but again, it's because there's more white folks than Asian folks, not because AMs are more sexist. It's also a privilege issue- WM have the ability to speak out, not because they're better- but because the plates aren't so full. They don't have to deal with the day-to-day racism, and they also don't have to worry about being ignored so much. The obstacle of not being heard is a major one in not bothering to speak out, and can't be dismissed. I think it's very important to recognize that with a lot of minority men, a lot of them can't get around to speaking out on certain subjects because they're trying to deal with crap that they have to deal with, and society does not really take to men being able to express their frustrations and concerns freely without making them feel like less of a man. It's important to recognize this aspect within the minority community- that minority men and women often feel unable to speak out for themselves or others, not because they're lacking but because they have a lot to deal with. I think the fact that women are expected to be talkative- even though we get dismissed for it by assholes-helps women out in this regard in terms of building more cohesiveness and personal support to the point where they can speak out because they have the personal support hashed out.

I've known several politically active AF women. It seems the ones that focus on AMs being sexist pigs are not really against sexism, only /their/ brand of sexism- which often happens to be from a very classist and privileged perspective and often just as sexist as the men they rail about. They also tend to be less active than their more balanced counterparts.

[Ike]

If we're not sexist, we're too short. If we're tall, it's because we're not confident. If we're confident, it's because we're not assertive. If we're assertive, it's because we're too skinny. If we're built like an ox, we're too muscular. If we're athletic and toned, it's because we have two arms. If we only have one arm, it's because we only have one arm.

Silly Vahz. It's because our white boyfriends tell us you have short penises. =P

[Vahz]

this is common but also among AA men ive met. the AA men who date/marry outside of their race explained that Asian women were "too conservative" for them. the AA women who date/marry outside of their race said similar things, the exact same things in some cases. so it leaves me wondering what is going on here? maybe each did not give the other a chance for some reason.
i notice this same pattern among some other non-Asian groups in america.

Oh, I don't doubt that at all because I was one of them. Ever since I went back to Asia to visit, I couldn't believe how blind I was in my thinking while growing up in America.

I think that's why I'm so depressed.

I had all these chances with Asian women (even had my own fan club during school) but I pushed them aside to date white girls. Now, after my epiphany, I read around the internet that there is a huge horde of Asian women that refuse to date Asian men. I couldn't help but feel that my actions back then may have contributed to what many of these angry Asian women feel today.

I know it may sound a little silly but I tend to take this topic a little personally because of how it relates to me and my attitudes/actions towards Asian women.

It's like how you were younger and hated eating chocolate so you ate nothing but Jolly Ranchers. Then, after a bit, you realized how good chocolate tastes but when you rush back to get some, someone else is eating the chocolate bar and there is none left. Sadly, you go back to eating Jolly Ranchers just because there's nothing else for you.

Man, I have to get this sweet tooth under control. It's fucking with my mind.

[Ike]

1. Don't dwell on the past.
2. Most Asian women DO date Asian men. The internet is full of lies and men who can't get women in general, and it has nothing to do with race.
3. Chocolate is gross and makes me puke.

[cattygurl]

Chocolate is gross? Oh, that's wrong on so many levels.

[RebelAzn]

1. Don't dwell on the past.
2. Most Asian women DO date Asian men. The internet is full of lies and men who can't get women in general, and it has nothing to do with race.
3. Chocolate is gross and makes me puke.

Ike - you tell them girl. Sometimes message is much much stronger when it comes from an Asian woman.

Bottom line is you got to look at it from a sports team's mentality. I compare some Asian men to a team where no one will give it a chance to win. It is the us vs. the world mentality. You have two choices:

1) Forget all the stereotypes and just go after whatever you like. If you want to date an Asian woman, focus on the Asian women who are interested in Asian men and Asian culture. There are a TON of them out there and many of them are pretty hot. Forget those CCBs, you can spot them a mile away. If they won't change their habits, move on. It is like any other dating, filter out the ones you are not compatible with.
2) Lay down and accept the stereotype and let it eat you alive.
3) All the other rejections Vahz used are just excuses. There is a woman for every man. If you got a job and is not a scumbag, someone will want you in this world regardless how you look.

It is very simple. No one in the world know you as well as you. It is up to the guy to make it happen regardless of the circumstance. There are plenty of examples where underdogs beat down the favorite. Think of George Mason last year.

That being said, there are a lot of ignorant Asian Americans out there. Like the article Vahz provided, it said some Asian women actually think the term Twinkie or Banana is a compliment. I only hope there will be better discussion /forums out there that help educate Asian American. At end of the day, you have to be proud of who you are no matter where you are from. Also, trying to be something you never will be will not bring happiness in the end.

[bigbossman07]

I'm more along the belief that many Asian women just want to date white men because they honestly believe that white men are better than Asian men. They believe in their heart that there are just as many good Asian men as white men but don't want to seem racist and hide behind some excuse to justify their actions rather than appear shallow.


I can't agree with that statement. I don't think it has nothing to do with white being better than Asians. I don't know where you got that from. Here, let me help you out some. What if you you relocated to Ireland from an Asian country? You would see pretty young women with red hair, brunette and blonde hair. Would you as a single man prefer to date your own kind? Or would you go after some Irish hottie? Now you have more choices, so it depends what you want to do. The same holds true for Asian girls. They have more choices than they did before. That is why they date us. It is not some great mystery.

[Ike]

Chocolate is gross? Oh, that's wrong on so many levels.

I have black friends, and they don't mind. XD

[Vahz]

I can't agree with that statement. I don't think it has nothing to do with white being better than Asians. I don't know where you got that from. Here, let me help you out some. What if you you relocated to Ireland from an Asian country? You would see pretty young women with red hair, brunette and blonde hair. Would you as a single man prefer to date your own kind? Or would you go after some Irish hottie? Now you have more choices, so it depends what you want to do. The same holds true for Asian girls. They have more choices than they did before. That is why they date us. It is not some great mystery.

If that were true, how would you explain all the racist stereotypes that many Asian women hold against Asian men? Additionally, how would you explain that in many polls regarding this subject, 25%of Asian women state they would never date an Asian man?

It's estimated that 40% of Asian women are involved with white men so that 25% is making a huge dent.

[Ike]

07 (I'm with Kuro here) -

If it were purely about "having more choices" and randomized, this is what Asian intermarriage rates would be like:

75.1% of Asians would be married to whites
12.4% of Asians would be married to blacks
0.8% of Asians would be married to Natives
3.7% of Asians would be married to Asians
12.5% of Asians would be married to Hispanics
(note: the US census did this weird thing where you could check Hispanic/Latino as your ethnicity and then check black/white/Asian/Native/etc as your race, so the numbers don't add up to 100%, if you even know how to do math)

And you've read the beginning of the thread (or am I assuming logic and intelligence?), so you know what the current Asian interracial marriage data looks like.

I don't mind interracial marriage, but I do think that when there is a disparity between randomization and the actual numbers, it needs to be looked into, and causes need to be located.

1. Most Asian Americans are married to other Asian Americans, including those with roots from a different Asian country. The cause? Shared experiences, shared social groups, etc. That one is easy.

2. More Asian American women marry white men than Asian American men marry white women. The cause? Stereotypes of AMs as effeminate, stereotypes of AFs as subservient and hyper-sexualized, WM attraction to AFs, WF non-attraction to AMs, AFs who are ONLY attracted to WMs, WM holding most of the power in the US... This one is not so easy, but something doesn't feel right there. It can probably be summed up in one word: racism (which you probably don't think exists).

3. Hardly any AAs at all marry black people. The cause? Racism.

Now you have more choices, so it depends what you want to do. The same holds true for Asian girls. They have more choices than they did before. That is why they date us.
And that, my dear Watson, is a logical fallacy. Asian "girls" (why don't you call them women? At your age, if you're dating girls, that's a serious criminal offense) have more choices. That doesn't say what their choice is going to be. You're presupposing your (nonexistent) superiority - that presented with the CHOICE between a white man and a non-white man, a "girl" will choose the white man.

I had more to say but Vahz beat me to it, so I'll just say that I second the general concept behind what he said.

(Oh, and your cave misses you. Maybe you should return to it.)

Vahz -
Where did you get your polls? Your numbers are quite extreme.

[RebelAzn]

07 (I'm with Kuro here) -

If it were purely about "having more choices" and randomized, this is what Asian intermarriage rates would be like:

75.1% of Asians would be married to whites
12.4% of Asians would be married to blacks
0.8% of Asians would be married to Natives
3.7% of Asians would be married to Asians
12.5% of Asians would be married to Hispanics
(note: the US census did this weird thing where you could check Hispanic/Latino as your ethnicity and then check black/white/Asian/Native/etc as your race, so the numbers don't add up to 100%, if you even know how to do math)

And you've read the beginning of the thread (or am I assuming logic and intelligence?), so you know what the current Asian interracial marriage data looks like.

I don't mind interracial marriage, but I do think that when there is a disparity between randomization and the actual numbers, it needs to be looked into, and causes need to be located.

1. Most Asian Americans are married to other Asian Americans, including those with roots from a different Asian country. The cause? Shared experiences, shared social groups, etc. That one is easy.

2. More Asian American women marry white men than Asian American men marry white women. The cause? Stereotypes of AMs as effeminate, stereotypes of AFs as subservient and hyper-sexualized, WM attraction to AFs, WF non-attraction to AMs, AFs who are ONLY attracted to WMs, WM holding most of the power in the US... This one is not so easy, but something doesn't feel right there. It can probably be summed up in one word: racism (which you probably don't think exists).

3. Hardly any AAs at all marry black people. The cause? Racism.


And that, my dear Watson, is a logical fallacy. Asian "girls" (why don't you call them women? At your age, if you're dating girls, that's a serious criminal offense) have more choices. That doesn't say what their choice is going to be. You're presupposing your (nonexistent) superiority - that presented with the CHOICE between a white man and a non-white man, a "girl" will choose the white man.

I had more to say but Vahz beat me to it, so I'll just say that I second the general concept behind what he said.

(Oh, and your cave misses you. Maybe you should return to it.)

Vahz -
Where did you get your polls? Your numbers are quite extreme.

Nice analysis Ike! I think you hit the nail on the head. Bottom line is everything is equal and there is no racism or stereotypes, equal number of Asian men and women would be dating/marrying whites as well as equal number of black men/women would be dating/marring whites. The fact is ther e is disparity shows there is definitely racism in this country. That's what some people are stating. Also, if Asian women weren't racists then why do they only date white men and no other minority men of black of Latino descendant? The answer is very obvious.

It would be great if USA is color blind but there are so much data to support that it is not even close being color blind. This is not an Asian problem, black or Latino problem, it is racism and problem of our society. Therefore, it is also a white problem.

That being said, white people will not hand over the power of media brainwashing anytime soon. Asian American and other minority communities need to stand up and vote things through economic and political means. This means support media entertainment that support diversity vs. white entertainment. How many TV shows do we have on TV that have all white cast? If there are minorities, it is mostly women and most of time they are hook up with white men.

I think women of color is a convenient minority for white people. They are women and they are minority so it kills any minority who wants to bitch about diversity. White people can go "see, we put minorities on TV" and throw it back at people who complain. In reality, it has created many of the problems within Asian American community and other minority communities today. At the same time, it also causes fighting among minority communities as well, which is probably exactly what white racists want.

[Vahz]

Vahz -
Where did you get your polls? Your numbers are quite extreme.

I saw it on one of those online polls on the same article of an Asian magazine discussing the disparity. I don't think it's that far off honestly. If you go to random dating sites such as match.com, it's about right.

I know, I shouldn't be reading too much into them but I had to mention it.

[Vahz]

I'm going to reference Grace Park, the actress from Battlestar Galactica because there is a quote by her that caught my eye and raised an eyebrow. Though she seems to be proud to be Korean, it seems that she can also shun Asian men completely whilst still being proud of who she is. My question is where and why does this mentality manifest itself?

http://ktown213.com/spotlights/ktonian/gracepark.html

"Kt213: You're sporting a ring on your finger, are you married?"

"GP: Yeah I just got married end of last year. He's Korean, hahaha. I know right? Let's see...we were dating for about 3 years. He was born in Korea came to Canada when he was eight. It's funny, I didn't think I'd ever want to marry a Korean person, in fact I was actually very adamant about it. But obviously he's very wonderful. He's a real estate developer, but when he was in college he wanted to be a director. So sometimes he talks to me about how I should play my character in a certain way, and he has very good insight on the show so it's very enlightening."

Also, my cousin asked if it's wrong for him to feel that while before she was hot, her connection to an Asian man makes her that much more attractive because of her mentality?

I'm just wondering.

It doesn't matter to me regardless. She's so hot that I'd still suck Jack Daniels out of her ass in front of my grandmother.

[Ike]

She's so hot that I'd still suck Jack Daniels out of her ass in front of my grandmother.

Yes, but is she so hot that your *grandmother* would suck Jack out of her ass in front of *you*? =D

[bigbossman07]

Well, I'm just saying is all. I didn't know it was that high.

What I find to find out, and hopefully do some research on, is why does this hatred exists in the first place? Is there some type of requirement where hatred of Asian men is the only way to allow them to date whites?

Recently, a white friend of mine was going out on a date with an Asian girl and she kept going on and on about why Asian men suck. He was quickly turned off by her self loathing (he's very aware of the disparity and superficial reasons behind some interracial couples) and got rid of her.

His admirable quote was that he despises racists and he couldn't, in good conseince, date someone who was racist against her own.


You see brother, not all white people are raving lunatics seeking to devour happless Asian girls. Glad to see you with a white friend. That's what it will take to solve this.

"(Oh, and your cave misses you. Maybe you should return to it.)"

Let's go back to the Bat Cave, Robin.

[Vahz]

I think you missed the point of that post.

It was designed to illustrate the fact that there are many of these Asian women that date for superficial reasons such as skin color which is something you deny is a big problem. My example was to show you, from personal experience, that it's a big problem. It's large enough that many Asian men, upon seeing an Asian woman with a white man, believe that she hates Asian men.

Anyone have an answer or theory regarding my question about Grace Park?

[Candide]

More data for you guys to sulk over:

http://ampha.org/2007/05/no-college-no-soup-for-you/

[Lum]

I'm going to reference Grace Park, the actress from Battlestar Galactica because there is a quote by her that caught my eye and raised an eyebrow. Though she seems to be proud to be Korean, it seems that she can also shun Asian men completely whilst still being proud of who she is. My question is where and why does this mentality manifest itself?

http://ktown213.com/spotlights/ktonian/gracepark.html

"Kt213: You're sporting a ring on your finger, are you married?"

"GP: Yeah I just got married end of last year. He's Korean, hahaha. I know right? Let's see...we were dating for about 3 years. He was born in Korea came to Canada when he was eight. It's funny, I didn't think I'd ever want to marry a Korean person, in fact I was actually very adamant about it. But obviously he's very wonderful. He's a real estate developer, but when he was in college he wanted to be a director. So sometimes he talks to me about how I should play my character in a certain way, and he has very good insight on the show so it's very enlightening."

Also, my cousin asked if it's wrong for him to feel that while before she was hot, her connection to an Asian man makes her that much more attractive because of her mentality?

I'm just wondering.

It doesn't matter to me regardless. She's so hot that I'd still suck Jack Daniels out of her ass in front of my grandmother.

Of course it's not wrong. A person's mentality has so much more to do with their attractiveness in the end. Physical beauty is the icing on the cake, although people often claim the opposite. Your cousin just feels an increased compatability with her, knowing what he knows. The fact that it's a race issue seems incidental to me.

What Grace Park says about marrying a Korean man is somewhat interesting. It might sound bad if not for the fact she's just fessing up to her past misdeeds. Everyone's had a retarded opinion at one time or another. But to ask why she and so many before her thinks this way is a can of worms that gets opened so often in these threads that everyone is sick of hearing about it. I hate to rehash and retread but I haven't really given you guys my answer to this question, which keeps reappearing, so I'll do it now and then I'll shut up about it.

Somewhere along the line AMs in particular got hit with a shitload of bad stereotypes and it just stuck. Combine this with some old-world parenting skillz while growing up in a westernized world and thousands of young Asians, both female and male, thought of rebelling in the same exact way. It's out with the old and in with the new time and everyone wants to show how progressive they are. Unfortunately much of Asia looks pretty bad in this context. When people think of Korea they see Kim Jong Il, when they think of China they see Mao, and when they think of Japan they see an old perv sniffing some schoolgirl's panties. We musn't forget that most people see the world in a very simplified, often misguided context and live their lives accordingly. If you want to see what they see, you have to think in the same terms.

Now amidst all of this turmoil, all of this guilt and all of this embarrassment people are determined to feel, here comes whitey, or The MAN, to find a way to exploit this into an advantage. He thinks, "Cool, we've got these people on the ropes without having to lift a finger! Now...what do they have that I want. Ah, how about their women?", and the rest as they say is history. Note that I am NOT blaming this on the white man. He just found himself in a prime position and answered the call. To say a man won't try to gain an advantage is to say a dog won't bark or a politician won't lie. Whitey just happens to be really fucking good at it.

So right there are at least three good reasons why some Asians won't marry Asians. We won't stop hearing about how the men are domineering or the women are golddiggers, but those are just the lame excuses people use to fill in the gaps so it's best to just ignore them. And no there's not a damn thing you or I can do about the disparity. Until one of our respective countries produces a cure for cancer or the next Elvis the only thing to do is find someone that's not completly full of shit and live contentedly ever after.

Now if you'll excuse me I must gouge your last image out of my brain with a pointy stick.

[RebelAzn]

Lum is right. There is not much any of us can do about it unless we are billionaires and we can start producing movies with Asian men in more better roles than ones we are given. The fact that there is a disparity in the 1st place proves racism and stereotype is alive and well in the good old USA where we call home. I don't really care about the disparity, but I do care about the long term impact of Asian American community. I certainly don't want my kids growing up hating being Asian because of all these negative stereotypes we are being feed all the time. I see few things with this trend:

1. WM will continue to go after AF in record numbers. WM created the Asian women stereotype and by doing so, they will continue to desire AF whether through sick fetishes or because they like them. Most of my Asian Ex-gfs all have told me they get hit on by white men far more than any other type of men, including AMs. This is the world we live in and it won't change anytime soon.

2. WFs will realize AMs are great partners for dating/marriage. I mean what woman won't want men who are dedicated to their family, well-educated and earn a good living? Asians in CA already have the highest per capita income comparing to all races, including white. I think this trend might continue in some communities as more affluent Asians immigrate to the USA. Regardless of the piss poor media images, some WFs will have to recognize this after being expose to AMs on a daily basis where there are large Asian population. This is already happening in CA, especially with the next generation.

3. AMs need to improve their "hitting on women" skills and compete in the market place. I realize Asian men in Asia don't know the concept of "hitting" on women in bars cause most marriages are through introductions by parents or setup by relatives, but it is time for new generation of Asian American men to learn these skills. My own parents told me I am not allowed to date until I graduated from college. Let's just say thank god I did not listen to them.

4. AMs need to get rid of their own racism and go date other women of color . Marriage data above shows we are not doing that and there are plenty of good women of other colors beside Asian and white.

5. Asian American men need to date more FOB Asian women. I mean white guys don't have a problem dating a woman that barely speak English, why should you. I am sure most FOB women would prefer to date Asian American men with some cultural background. Several FOB women have told me most Americanized Asian men won't date them but white men would gladly do it. Therefore, if dating choices for most FOB women is either FOB men or white men, some will choose white men.


Finally, Asians are not going anywhere. In fact, we are everywhere. Asians in Asia will not stop reproducing just because there are some disparity in dating/marriage in the USA. Also, I am all for interracial dating/marriage because I think it will eventually make USA truly more of a melting pot. However, the disparity in dating/marriage is disturbing because it proves there is racism involved. If we have no disparity in interracial dating, I won't have any issue with it whatsoever. I think most Asian Americans are not aware of all the issues like people on this forum. It is up to the community to educate these people so they can understand why they date/marry in the 1st place. It is an USA social issue as well as Asian American community issue.

[Vahz]

I also wanted to expand on #3 of Rebel's post.

Not only do Asian men have to be more aggressive in the dating scene but it must also be noted that Asian women are the only ones that don't seem to have an bias towards white men whereas other women of other races would give preference to their own men. From the white, Hispanic, and black women I’ve talked to, they would prefer someone of their own race first but would be open to anyone.

This makes it even more difficult because being of the same race, you'd think that they would give you first dibs which is not the case. This, I think, is also rooted in some type of white privilege regarding white men. Then, couple that with the fact that there are simply too many white men compared to Asian men, the dating disparity seems to be logical. Only when Asian women give more of a preference to Asian men will we see more Asian couples, I think.

Another point to add is that the reason why so many white men are hounding Asian women is not only because of their own mentality regarding them but also because after seeing so many AF/WM pairings, it makes them think that AFs want them which is a huge confidence boost. Asian men, on the other hand, see this as well and think that Asian women don't want them.

Asian women want Asian men to be more assertive but then get demoralized when they constantly see AF/WM pairings both in real life and in media because they weren’t assertive enough in the first place. It's a huge vicious cycle.

The dating disparity will end when Asian women give preference to Asian men and white men are no longer interested in Asian women. Right now, it's the complete opposite.

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe we can fix things by giving up but it's important to note that the playing field is not even by a long shot. This is why I find it funny as hell when some white men state they can't find a date. In this world, if you're white, male, and dateless, you're a dumbass.

[Lum]

You lost me on "dibs", man. That assumes that there are situations where race is the only differentiating factor between two suitors. When was the last time you met two women who were identical in every way but the color of their skin??

[Vahz]

Sorry, "dibs" was the wrong word. I think preference is a better word.

I understand where you're coming from on the odds of two suiters being exactly the same except for race but what I meant to say was that too many Asian men think that their race would be a benefit to them when asking out an Asian girl. However, from what I've seen, only white, Hispanic, and black women seem to give the suiter a "plus" if they're of the same race.

[RebelAzn]

Vahz - I think you are already have a defeated mentality when you keep turn this into a race thing. The whole dating thing here is all about perceived attraction, power and economics.

I personally don't want some girl dating me only because I am Asian. I want her to date me because I am the best man for her period. This is truly how I feel whether I am dating an AF, WF, HF or BF. It does not matter. You have to believe that or why should she date you in the 1st place? If I am an AF, why should I date a AM loser who has a 2nd place mentality when there are confident men from other races after her? If I am dating a WF, do I think I am the greatest man for her and better than every other WM? Hell yeah. It is the same for the BF or LF.

I don't like stereotypes and just want to be judged as an individual. The reason Asian Americans should date each other because they have more in common culturally and experience wise, not only because of the race. I just don't like how AM and AF are marginlized in this country by the white media. Also, I just don't think Asian Americans should hate ourselves because we are different and we are surrounded by white images day in and day out.

When you start to put everything in the context of race all the time, you are already thinking less of yourself because everything in this country favors the white men.

[Lum]

Why all the moping anyway? The numbers that Rebel posted should speak for themselves. And they're telling me that despite the average American thinking we're all a bunch of commies or perverts, Asian women continue to marry us. That's saying a lot, since no amount of hunky movie stars will make people forget about a nuclear-enabled dictator.

So if you see CCBs everywhere you go, either go somewhere else or learn to ignore them. They're still in the minority.

[RebelAzn]

Ok I am tired of Asian men who can't date because they think every AF out are dating WM. This could not be furthest from truth. If you can't date, it is probably because it is you. Sure there are plenty of disadvantages because we have many negative stereotypes, but there are WOMEN out there who are above stereotypes and won't judge all the Asian men as the same. I don't want to brag but I never had a problem dating women. I had one girlfriend after another since I was 16 years old. To this day, I lost count how many GFs I had. Sure I had plenty of breakups, but it was never because I am Asian. Have I ever been turn down because I am Asian, probablly but no woman ever told that to my face. Have I heard of CCBs? Sure and I do know that but you be surprised why some of them do what they do. If you can't get a date, how about travel to poor countries and I am sure females there would love to hook up just because you are American or Japanese? I been to China, Japan, Brazil and other little countries and I had plenty of local women who want to get with me. I realize many of those are looking for green cards, but at least there were plenty. I had my ass grabbed 9 times in a club in Brazil once. Although some of those are probably working girls, but the power of economic perception is quit different depends where you are coming from.

Some of you really need to step back and look at it from a woman's perspective. I had WFs told me they are afraid they can't compete with AFs because all AFs are skinny and many Asians think they have big noses and fat which are not attractive. I had AFs who threaten suicide if I break up with her. I had BFs who told me I don't like them because they are black. Every woman has insecurities too. Every woman can gets mad, jealous, possessive and constantly worries about the way she looks and how much she weighs. At end of the day, AMs just need to understand women in general to date more, especially if you date outside your comfort zone.

Here is an article that was on salon.com this morning looking at things from a black female's perspective. Some of you might want to read it: http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2005/07/30/gender_crashers/index.html

The bottom line is this issue is not about dating and dating only. It is about racism and why people behave the way they do in this white media dominated society. If you are only bitching cause you can't get a date, then you got a lot to learn about your place in American society.

[JjampongMania]

Rebel,

I just wanted to say that it also depends on what part of the US you live in.

From my experience, I found that non-Asian girls in jew-dominant areas, such as NYC, L.A. or Chicago, tend to be brainwashed by hollywitz and the media in general. hence they tend to not be interested in dating Asian males. I would like to sweep this dating disparity problem/issue under the rug, but I just can't.

Compare L.A. and NYC to other US cities, such as San fran, or Seattle, or even the midwest! Yeah, I've been to the midwest, such as Illinois and Indiana, and the girls there are conservative, yet didn't mind sitting down with me for lunch or dinner and chatting with me.

Southern girls (i.e. Georgia, Texas) are also bells, and potential places an Asian guy could look for a non-Asian girl. That's just what I have to say from my experience.

I have to agree on your part though, that some of the disparity is due to a guy's lack of confidence. But since the media likes to degrade Asians, esp. East Asian males, many Asian males loose confidence in finding a girl (non-Asian girl that is) over the commercials they see in the media, the hollywitz BS they watch in the movie theaters, or the crap magazines (i.e. People, Glamour, etc.) girls tend to read while exercising at the fitness center. You may not want to digest that fact, but the media DOES have a profound effect on how people think in their daily lives, as well as what decisions people make in their lives.

[atlasien]

Aaaaaa and now you're spouting off about black and jewish people... my ignore list is getting very active today :rolleyes: a racist Asian, a trolling white Asiaphile and a drunk crazy dude have all joined.

[RebelAzn]

JjampongMania,

If you read my posts, you will realize I have said over and over again that media has a lot to do with where we are today. However, this won't be the first time odds will be stacked against you nor will it be the last time. You will only lose if you believe in the media hype.

It all depends on what you want in life. If your interest is to date as many women as possible, then you better learn to be a player and improving your macking skills. If you suck so bad and always lose, then you better mold yourself into something all women are looking for. There are Asian guys on the Net who teach classes on how to pick up women and perhaps some here should go take a class. I have been Asian parties where Asian men just stand around and not hit on women. I have been to a bar with a hot BF and I have watched BM approach her one after another. You need to play the game if you want to date.

If you want to find one nice girl to get married, then you only care about one and who cares what other 99.99% does?

Also I disagree with these media white washed places. All those places like Chicago, NYC and LA have plenty of women. LA got a ton of hot looking women. Are some superficial and want only certain look? Sure, but it is up to you to filter them fast before you waste your time with them. I find it hard to believe a place like LA, NYC etc. one can't find a good girl.

The bigger issue is how we are being marginalized in the whole media. We need to support media that portray us fairly and voice against ones that don't. I can almost guarantee you no matter how many Asian women marry/dating out, there are plenty more that will date Asian men. Why? Many have told me so. I also know some AFs I turned down ended up marrying white men. Why? Probably cause they are 30 and they don't want to be alone for rest of their lives.

I don't think it is right when Asian Americans turn their backs on the Asian American community as a whole. I don't appreciate when someone tries to stereotype me because I am Asian. Yes I get pissed if an Asian woman tries to put down all Asian men through stereotypes trying to win favors with a white guy. These are the problems we should be concern about more. Disparity in dating is a byproduct of all these stereotypes and racism.

[RebelAzn]

Ok I found this blog on the net that will be interesting to some of you who are learning how to date better. First, I don't know a thing about this guy or what he does, but he claims to be the dating coach for minorities. He is Asian though so his experience is relative. Check it out and make your own decisions. He holds classes on picking up women.

http://theasianplayboy.blogspot.com/2007/03/about-us-apb-team_20.html#2

[kwak76]

You know what not to the change the subject...
I still have my doubts with asianplayboy.
I 'm not saying this guy does not get girls but I think some of the stuff he saids are overstated.

[RebelAzn]

You know what not to the change the subject...
I still have my doubts with asianplayboy.
I 'm not saying this guy does not get girls but I think some of the stuff he saids are overstated.

Kwak - I have no idea if the guy is for real or not. However, some of basic advice he has is not bad dating advices. I don't recommend everyone trying to turn into a pick up artists cause most women are not looking for that. Also, there is no such thing as a sure formula to pick up/meet a girl. I think guys just need to have the balls to walk up to a stranger and talk to her. There is no formula other than how you make her feel. I tried myself to approach women when I was young and I know it benefited me. It is simple as walking up to a girl and just talk to her. You don't need a dumb line. Sometimes it is simple as "hi my name is ...." and meet the person. I know it sounds basic, but I know for a fact most men don't have the guts to do that whether you are Asian or white or whatever. I grew up with white guys and many of them are just as socially inept as the next so it is not race specific.

[JjampongMania]

JjampongMania,

If you read my posts, you will realize I have said over and over again that media has a lot to do with where we are today. However, this won't be the first time odds will be stacked against you nor will it be the last time. You will only lose if you believe in the media hype.


I disagree. It's not just us Asian males who "lose" if we believe in the media hype. It's the girls who believe in the media hype who tends to turn down Asian guys. Are all non-Asian girls like that in the US? No. But a majority of them read crap magazines like "glamour" and "people" and other magazines I could place beneath my parrot's cage. And even if us Asian males are tough and are not turned down by the media full of confidence, the girls who do believe in the media crap will simply be molded to think that way. Either that, or there's friend 'peer pressure' or family peer pressure to have other friends not date a certain guy.



It all depends on what you want in life. If your interest is to date as many women as possible, then you better learn to be a player and improving your macking skills. If you suck so bad and always lose, then you better mold yourself into something all women are looking for.

Okay, so if you're an overweight ugly looking guy, you're saying that a fat guy should be a player? I don't think so. basically, if you're ugly, or a non-dating material person, then you're pretty much screwed for life. Unless, you have a big pocket. :)


I have been Asian parties where Asian men just stand around and not hit on women.


I find some truth to that. I have also had Asian male friends give me ugly looks when I talk about IR dating. For example, my Chinese-Amer friend told me to not date white girls because they tend to break-up a lot in relationships. So yes, there are also issues with Asian guys that we need to tear apart to appear more date-able.


I have been to a bar with a hot BF and I have watched BM approach her one after another. You need to play the game if you want to date.

OMG, not black guys (<--bad example). Come on, black males are always on commercials, haole-wood movies, magazines, NFL, NBA etc. They are viewed as studs and buff guys. This is why a lot of females go for black males, even if black guys tend to be promiscuous and jump from one lady to another lady.





[/QUOTE]

[bigbossman07]

Of course it's not wrong. A person's mentality has so much more to do with their attractiveness in the end. Physical beauty is the icing on the cake, although people often claim the opposite. Your cousin just feels an increased compatability with her, knowing what he knows. The fact that it's a race issue seems incidental to me.

What Grace Park says about marrying a Korean man is somewhat interesting. It might sound bad if not for the fact she's just fessing up to her past misdeeds. Everyone's had a retarded opinion at one time or another. But to ask why she and so many before her thinks this way is a can of worms that gets opened so often in these threads that everyone is sick of hearing about it. I hate to rehash and retread but I haven't really given you guys my answer to this question, which keeps reappearing, so I'll do it now and then I'll shut up about it.

Somewhere along the line AMs in particular got hit with a shitload of bad stereotypes and it just stuck. Combine this with some old-world parenting skillz while growing up in a westernized world and thousands of young Asians, both female and male, thought of rebelling in the same exact way. It's out with the old and in with the new time and everyone wants to show how progressive they are. Unfortunately much of Asia looks pretty bad in this context. When people think of Korea they see Kim Jong Il, when they think of China they see Mao, and when they think of Japan they see an old perv sniffing some schoolgirl's panties. We musn't forget that most people see the world in a very simplified, often misguided context and live their lives accordingly. If you want to see what they see, you have to think in the same terms.

Now amidst all of this turmoil, all of this guilt and all of this embarrassment people are determined to feel, here comes whitey, or The MAN, to find a way to exploit this into an advantage. He thinks, "Cool, we've got these people on the ropes without having to lift a finger! Now...what do they have that I want. Ah, how about their women?", and the rest as they say is history. Note that I am NOT blaming this on the white man. He just found himself in a prime position and answered the call. To say a man won't try to gain an advantage is to say a dog won't bark or a politician won't lie. Whitey just happens to be really fucking good at it.

So right there are at least three good reasons why some Asians won't marry Asians. We won't stop hearing about how the men are domineering or the women are golddiggers, but those are just the lame excuses people use to fill in the gaps so it's best to just ignore them. And no there's not a damn thing you or I can do about the disparity. Until one of our respective countries produces a cure for cancer or the next Elvis the only thing to do is find someone that's not completly full of shit and live contentedly ever after.

Now if you'll excuse me I must gouge your last image out of my brain with a pointy stick.

Hey bro, you make some good points here but why did you have to say whitey? Let's try to focus on the main problem and not all this animosity against whites. Believe it or not, not all whites wants Asian women. That's probably not in one of your facts either. The number is high but it's not alarming. I would think most Asian children will grow up with both parents of the same race. There are even some White male that date black women. They keep it a secret so nobody won't know but there are some white male who don't care and are open with it. Just like there are some white guys who date members of other race. The majority of white male will end up with white women, trust me I know about these things.

[RebelAzn]

Hey bro, you make some good points here but why did you have to say whitey? Let's try to focus on the main problem and not all this animosity against whites. Believe it or not, not all whites wants Asian women. That's probably not in one of your facts either. The number is high but it's not alarming. I would think most Asian children will grow up with both parents of the same race. There are even some White male that date black women. They keep it a secret so nobody won't know but there are some white male who don't care and are open with it. Just like there are some white guys who date members of other race. The majority of white male will end up with white women, trust me I know about these things.

The problem we are discussing is not so much interracial dating in itself. At least I am not. I think most of us are discussing the fact that disparity in dating/marriage between Asian men and women in America. If there is no racism, equal number of Asian men and women would be in interracial relationship across America. The fact it is not proves there is definitely racism abound.

The fact most of the disparity is created by years of white media marginalizing Asian men and women differently in America. Believe me or not, what we see on TV day in and day out does have a huge impact on what we perceive as attractive etc. White men and women always have the white controlled media on their side to put them on a pedestal while minorities like Asian Americans are being stereotyped constantly. While stereotypes for Asian women might help them in dating, but it is detrimental to Asian men. Like one of Asian woman here said, stereotypes against Asian women is like poisoned honey.

Due to these disparity, Asian American men and women are pitted against each other and in the end, it will affect our community as a whole in a very negative way. This is why I am discussing this.

[Lum]

Hey bro, you make some good points here but why did you have to say whitey? Let's try to focus on the main problem and not all this animosity against whites. Believe it or not, not all whites wants Asian women. That's probably not in one of your facts either. The number is high but it's not alarming. I would think most Asian children will grow up with both parents of the same race. There are even some White male that date black women. They keep it a secret so nobody won't know but there are some white male who don't care and are open with it. Just like there are some white guys who date members of other race. The majority of white male will end up with white women, trust me I know about these things.

JAYSIS, there you go again feigning comraderie, policing words, taking an authoritarian stance, applying selective hearing and taking the moral high-ground in some halfwitted viainglorious attempt at painting this community in a negative light, while you by default expect to come out looking like the colorblind messianic champion of the oh-so unenlightened. It's obvious you came to this forum expecting to capture us in some semantic booby-trap for the sole purpose of stroking your engorged ego, but the savages rebelled and you couldn't just walk away knowing that your radical sensitivity ploy was in fact nothing but a carbon copy of neo-hippie rhetoric that each and every ethnic person here has seen a thousand times before. If you bothered read to the words that fall between "white" in my posts you might understand that no, I don't think the numbers of white men in interracial marriage statistics are alarming; no, I don't think the disparity issue is the "main problem", and no, I don't think that all white men want to date Asian women. In fact I don't really care who or what the white man wants to date, I was just trying to answer Vahz's question of where the mentality of Asians not wanting to marry other Asians comes from. I used the term whitey in this instance for emphasis and relatability because it is part of a sentiment that I dare say every Asian person here has felt at one time or another. Obviously you've turned this one variety of race-relations into the source of ALL of our woes because presumably it pleases your vanity to do so. But this is all inconsequesntial because it has fuck all to do with you and I can will use the term and every variation thereof as often and in any context I damn well please. You don't like it, call the cops.









Whitey-ass cracka.

[Vahz]

I apologize if I came off sounding like a downtrodden individual and dragging everyone down. It was no my intention and again, I apologize.

What I was merely trying to do is air out some fustration that many Asian men feel about the whole situation and how we, as a community, need to be realistic about it. I've always believe that it's impossible to fix a problem unless you acknowledge every aspect of it.

[Hadouken]

I apologize if I came off sounding like a downtrodden individual and dragging everyone down. It was no my intention and again, I apologize.

What I was merely trying to do is air out some fustration that many Asian men feel about the whole situation and how we, as a community, need to be realistic about it. I've always believe that it's impossible to fix a problem unless you acknowledge every aspect of it.

Vahz, I appreciate your honesty. Many of us have experienced the negative effects of these stereotypes and it's an understatement if I tell you that they're no fun at all. I've had a woman who rejected me and to top it off -I guess she must've been particularly ill-tempered- threw out the whole Asian-with-small-penises stereotype as the reason. I'd be lying if I say it didn't hurt like hell. One of the reasons I became a Fighting44 was when my cousin (whom I admired, respected, and loved like sister) told me that she refuses to date Asian men. She's a lawyer, well-educated, and generally pretty open-minded about things (or so I thought). That was another rather bitter pill to swallow. I'm sure other members here have worse experiences.
But despite the statistics, never ever sell yourself short. Just remember that when women buy into these stereotypes, it's to their disadvantage, too. They shut themselves off from a huge population of men, many of whom have a lot to offer. Plus, by letting themselves be influenced by a stereotype, they open themselves up to other lies. They narrow their horizons, close their minds, and things generally just go downhill from there.
Society will always be fucked over by those in power, especially when they feel threatened (and that's almost always the case). And there will always be idiots who believe them. I suggest that you seek out like-minded people, and surround yourself with intelligence and positive thinking. They exist. Shit, I'm starting to sound like some self-help book, now.

[Hadouken]

Kwak - I have no idea if the guy is for real or not. However, some of basic advice he has is not bad dating advices. I don't recommend everyone trying to turn into a pick up artists cause most women are not looking for that. Also, there is no such thing as a sure formula to pick up/meet a girl. I think guys just need to have the balls to walk up to a stranger and talk to her. There is no formula other than how you make her feel. I tried myself to approach women when I was young and I know it benefited me. It is simple as walking up to a girl and just talk to her. You don't need a dumb line. Sometimes it is simple as "hi my name is ...." and meet the person. I know it sounds basic, but I know for a fact most men don't have the guts to do that whether you are Asian or white or whatever. I grew up with white guys and many of them are just as socially inept as the next so it is not race specific.

If you wish to go learn skills of these so-called pick up artists, that's fine by me. But I don't see how any of that has anything to do with Asian American issues. From what little I've seen, these pick up artist operate with a selfish mentality, and all they ever care about is chasing ass. Even if one of them happen to be Asian, I see no reason why he would even give a shit about what we're discussing.

[AsianPlayboy]

If you wish to go learn skills of these so-called pick up artists, that's fine by me. But I don't see how any of that has anything to do with Asian American issues. From what little I've seen, these pick up artist operate with a selfish mentality, and all they ever care about is chasing ass. Even if one of them happen to be Asian, I see no reason why he would even give a shit about what we're discussing.

Because I get racist comments from both girls and guys about once a month- granted I live in Texas- when I'm out socializing. Because I can commiserate with a fellow AM about being racially rejected by both WFs and AFs (rare though it may be, it still happens once in a blue moon). Because I've gotten into conflicts with white boys who hated seeing an AM successfully game a WF.

There's a host of reason. Some may apply to the student. Some may not even come close. Hell, you may think I'm talking out of my ass. That's fine.

It doesn't happen often, maybe 1%, but it happens. My first paying client was actually a Chinese Canadian who got beat up by neo-Nazis up in Canada.

If you will, one possibly useful comparison is the difference between a white fraternity and a black/minority frat. It's supposed to be essentially the same thing, but from what I see, an ethnic-oriented frat concentrates on raising economic and social parity versus the all out partying of a mainstream frat. The partying is still there, just with a dash of social awareness and collective bartering power.

Of course, do I claim to be the next Martin Luthor King for Asians? Of course not. I'm a business man that stumbled into this by learning how to become good with women and then eventually seeing a need for my fellow AMs to:

1) Learn how to be good with women
2) Learn that race- while a factor- is NOT as big as some AMs make it out to be

So yeah, it feels good to get paid to get laid in exotic locations. But it also feels good knowing that I helped- by leading by example and teaching learnable, concrete conversational skills- a fellow AM take one step closer to becoming successful with women.

[RebelAzn]

If you wish to go learn skills of these so-called pick up artists, that's fine by me. But I don't see how any of that has anything to do with Asian American issues. From what little I've seen, these pick up artist operate with a selfish mentality, and all they ever care about is chasing ass. Even if one of them happen to be Asian, I see no reason why he would even give a shit about what we're discussing.

First of all, it is obviously you have not been reading any of my posts at all. While you might think that way and some of what you said might be true, but some of these guys are out there showing they are overcoming whatever negative stereotypes society has placed on them. If you actually read amount of bitching by some Asian men why they can't get girls etc, these men you are bashing are merely showing a complete opposite point of view. They are doing it by example which to me is better than sitting on their asses all day and bitch about why AMs can't get girls.

[Hadouken]

Because I get racist comments from both girls and guys about once a month- granted I live in Texas- when I'm out socializing. Because I can commiserate with a fellow AM about being racially rejected by both WFs and AFs (rare though it may be, it still happens once in a blue moon). Because I've gotten into conflicts with white boys who hated seeing an AM successfully game a WF.

It doesn't happen often, maybe 1%, but it happens. My first paying client was actually a Chinese Canadian who got beat up by neo-Nazis up in Canada.

Of course, do I claim to be the next Martin Luthor King for Asians? Of course not. I'm a business man that stumbled into this by learning how to become good with women and then eventually seeing a need for my fellow AMs to:

1) Learn how to be good with women
2) Learn that race- while a factor- is NOT as big as some AMs make it out to be

So yeah, it feels good to get paid to get laid in exotic locations. But it also feels good knowing that I helped- by leading by example and teaching learnable, concrete conversational skills- a fellow AM take one step closer to becoming successful with women.

You get racist comments only once a month? Boy, I’m moving to Texas! Seriously, my attack on you was unwarranted; it was beneath me and I offer my apologies. I really didn’t know you, and I was just generalizing from what little I’ve learned by glancing at the pick-up artists’ forums (yeah, I was interested in that stuff myself). All that stuff just seemed to me to be disingenuous and deceptive. Not to mention it seemed just a bit chauvinistic to assume that women are such easily-manipulated tools. I admit I can be mistaken about your methods, so don’t take it as an attack on you personally.

RebelAzn caught me off guard by referring to dating advice since it doesn’t seem to tackle the issue at all. Having better pick up “techniques” is simply a temporary solution intended to fix an immediate and personal problem (dating) caused by much bigger issues (racism). Did I miss his point? Maybe. Hey, these are just my opinions and I can be proven wrong.

But, I stand corrected on the issue of you not caring, AsianPlayboy. I see that you care, and your experiences with racism are sadly all too common and understandable. And no, I do not expect you to single-handedly start a revolution. That wasn’t my intention. What you do with your business is your business. My point is: your conflicts with WM for dating a WF are the results of racial tensions that will not go away by sleeping with more women.

[Hadouken]

First of all, it is obviously you have not been reading any of my posts at all. While you might think that way and some of what you said might be true, but some of these guys are out there showing they are overcoming whatever negative stereotypes society has placed on them. If you actually read amount of bitching by some Asian men why they can't get girls etc, these men you are bashing are merely showing a complete opposite point of view. They are doing it by example which to me is better than sitting on their asses all day and bitch about why AMs can't get girls.

Yes, I read your posts and I misunderstood your meaning. Strange that what you're saying now makes more sense to me than what you said before. Go figure. Bashing you and AsianPlayboy was out of line, though, so please accept my apologies.

I do agree with you that it's better to lead by example rather than sit around bitching all day. Yes, there are AM who complain all day, but worrying about them and their dating (or lack thereof) seems to divert from the issue at hand. While it may seem like a lot of AM spend their time pissing and moaning, that could just be because those guys are the loudest. It doesn't necessarily mean that these guys represent the majority of AM. After all, isn’t the idea of a whiny AM a negative stereotype? There may well be just as many, if not greater, number of AM out there with girlfriends and wives. We just don't see that many of them simply because we make up such a small proportion of the population. But, even our small population must have its share of people with poor social skills (just like every other race, like you mentioned). And every time an insecure AM comes out with dating problems, it reinforces the negative stereotypes while making the interracial dating/marriage disparity (like you said) a much bigger problem than it really is.

[AsianPlayboy]

You get racist comments only once a month? Boy, I’m moving to Texas! Seriously, my attack on you was unwarranted; it was beneath me and I offer my apologies. I really didn’t know you, and I was just generalizing from what little I’ve learned by glancing at the pick-up artists’ forums (yeah, I was interested in that stuff myself). All that stuff just seemed to me to be disingenuous and deceptive. Not to mention it seemed just a bit chauvinistic to assume that women are such easily-manipulated tools. I admit I can be mistaken about your methods, so don’t take it as an attack on you personally.

RebelAzn caught me off guard by referring to dating advice since it doesn’t seem to tackle the issue at all. Having better pick up “techniques” is simply a temporary solution intended to fix an immediate and personal problem (dating) caused by much bigger issues (racism). Did I miss his point? Maybe. Hey, these are just my opinions and I can be proven wrong.

But, I stand corrected on the issue of you not caring, AsianPlayboy. I see that you care, and your experiences with racism are sadly all too common and understandable. And no, I do not expect you to single-handedly start a revolution. That wasn’t my intention. What you do with your business is your business. My point is: your conflicts with WM for dating a WF are the results of racial tensions that will not go away by sleeping with more women.

I think the difficulty, or at least the common misperception, is that Pick Up is the same thing as having a Long Term Relationship. They may be part of the same coin, but they're on the opposite side.

Or, to put it another way, Pick Up- through deception or simply a highly developed skillset via body language, story telling, and tonality- are not the same as KEEPING a high quality woman.

I tell students that, "If you want the woman of your dreams, you need to be the MAN of her's."

Of course, that's a long term endeavor that will span years of development in one man's lifespan.

On the other hand, it's a fallacy and woeful lack of understanding to ASSUME that all women want is a RELATIONSHIP. Very few YOUNG (college to 20 somethings) in my experience want anything serious.

There's boyfriend and then there's "BOYFRIEND."

Pick Up is about attracting and seducing. It can involve deception to simply making yourself better.

I know where I stand and what/how I teach. Other's may fall on one side or the other.

I don't teach ethics. I don't "FIX" people with emotional problems. I simply teach a skill and hopefully encourage men to make themselves BETTER over the long term.

I encourage a certain amount of self-serving honesty as well as "giving back" to the community, but I can't force someone to do that. I can only lead by example- as a hard working PUA that's not even close to being "the best"- and hope others fall in line in bettering themselves as well as their fellow AMs.

But I don't run people's lives. A skill is a skill, devoid of moral inclination or judgement. That's up to each individual man and woman to decide on their own.

[Vahz]

Hadouken, where do you live? In your profile, it states Cali but I heard that Cali is one of the friendliest places for Asian guys.

I think a good way of telling if an Asian woman is "hostile" to Asian men is what her friends are comprised of. Of all the women that fit into this catagory, they only seem to hang out with white people. If these women have many Asian friends who are male, there is a much less likely hood for her to be racist.

Did the woman you encountered that brought out stereotypes fit into this catagory? As in, were you in a bar or club that has a large population of whites? Regarding the lawyer friend, are all her friends white?

Did you ever question her rational for this thinking?

Many of these feelings also stem from have multiple bad experiences with Asian men as well.

[AsianPlayboy]

In my honest opinion, I don't think it's worth worrying about AFs who date casually or exclusive interracially.

It's a poisonous virus that's just going to undermine one's confidence with self-doubt.

Yes, it's there. Now move on.

[Hadouken]

Hadouken, where do you live? In your profile, it states Cali but I heard that Cali is one of the friendliest places for Asian guys.

I think a good way of telling if an Asian woman is "hostile" to Asian men is what her friends are comprised of. Of all the women that fit into this catagory, they only seem to hang out with white people. If these women have many Asian friends who are male, there is a much less likely hood for her to be racist.

Did the woman you encountered that brought out stereotypes fit into this catagory? As in, were you in a bar or club that has a large population of whites? Regarding the lawyer friend, are all her friends white?

Did you ever question her rational for this thinking?

Many of these feelings also stem from have multiple bad experiences with Asian men as well.

Hmm...hope I'm not coming off sounding like an angry AM. I was just sharing my experiences that happened some time back, and I pretty much got over that stuff by now. I met that woman at a bar, and what she said did mess