Lost in Translation, Mr. Yen

[lycheng]

A friend of mine sent me this link from the Language Log Blog (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/%7Emyl/languagelog/archives/004378.html).

Apparently some crazy guy from Taiwan named Mr. Yen Pei Ai published an ad in the Washington Post that is barely legible, let alone making a well reasoned case for removing "China" from the English name for Zhong Guo.

Now I have nothing against calling China Zhong Guo. In fact I support it. However, instead of making the case that Zhong Guo is the name used by the Chinese people themselves, he infers that "China" is somehow disrespectful of Chinese people because it sounds like "To tear-na" in Mandarin, "China's (with a plural "s") sounds like "To tear you to die". Here the "s" sounds like the word for death 死 (SI3).

Has anyone heard of this?

I think Mr. Yen is crazy to publish an ad in a national known newspaper with incomprehensible references and translations like "Long Time" for a strangely Chinese-centric concept of 龍的時代 (LONG2 DE SHI2DAI4). A better translation would be "Time of the Dragon".

In any event, the Language Log blogger, Victor H. Mair (Professor of East Asian Languages at Penn) goes on to demolish Mr. Yen's linguistic mistakes.

But I also find Professor Mair's critique troublesome because at the heart of Mr. Yen argument is his, and perhaps many Chinese around the world, to take ownership of the very name that describes their ethnicity or ancestry.

lycheng

[Hater Depot]

But I also find Professor Mair's critique troublesome because at the heart of Mr. Yen argument is his, and perhaps many Chinese around the world, to take ownership of the very name that describes their ethnicity or ancestry.

But then, how far should that go... should we stop saying Germany, France, Japan, Korea, etc.? I don't really see much point in asking another country to change its language for you.

[maogirl]

^^^yeah, exactly.

your language is your language, it's retarded to put conditions like that in.

[ZhuBaJie]

But then, how far should that go... should we stop saying Germany, France, Japan, Korea, etc.? I don't really see much point in asking another country to change its language for you.

sort of related, but a couple of years ago, South Korea asked Chinese-speaking regions to start calling Seoul by the name of 首爾 (shou er) intead of 漢城 (han cheng). as far as i know, most Chinese people still know Seoul as 漢城, but i think some news media has started calling it 首爾 instead. i don't care either way, but until most people around me refer to it as 首爾, i'm going to keep calling it 漢城, because... i don't think they would know what the heck i'm talking about if i said 首爾.

Mr. Yen's request is hardly surprising, because almost all cities in China are now known by their pinyin'ed name in English, for example Peking -> Beijing, Canton -> Guangzhou. i think it's just part of the push for the English speaking world to use pinyin to refer to places in China.

as for his translation of "龍的時代" to "Long Time", he could be part of that small group of academics in China that wish to redefine how 龍 is translated in English. some object to the fact that 龍 is translated as "dragon" because the western concept of "dragon" is evil whereas 龍 is a benevolent creature and symbolism.

[lycheng]

Mr. Yen's request is hardly surprising, because almost all cities in China are now known by their pinyin'ed name in English, for example Peking -> Beijing, Canton -> Guangzhou. i think it's just part of the push for the English speaking world to use pinyin to refer to places in China.

Right. I think as as pinying gets used more and more around the world, it's not surprising that some Chinese would want to go beyond changing romanizaiton, to changing the country name to something that better reflects the native language.


as for his translation of "龍的時代" to "Long Time", he could be part of that small group of academics in China that wish to redefine how 龍 is translated in English. some object to the fact that 龍 is translated as "dragon" because the western concept of "dragon" is evil whereas 龍 is a benevolent creature and symbolism.

Interesting… thanks for the info, ZBJ. If that's the case, then I think this is a good example of language deconstruction going too far (channeling Hater Depot here). Ironically, "Long Time" can be viewed in a derogatory sense, as in the phrase "I Love You Long Time" to negatively portray Asian women. Of course that's something Mr. Yan would probably not know about, given that he lives in Taiwan.

lycheng

[ZhuBaJie]

Interesting… thanks for the info, ZBJ. If that's the case, then I think this is a good example of language deconstruction going too far (channeling Hater Depot here).

more info:
http://www.loong.us/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6171963.stm

[Hater Depot]

sort of related, but a couple of years ago, South Korea asked Chinese-speaking regions to start calling Seoul by the name of 首爾 (shou er) intead of 漢城 (han cheng). as far as i know, most Chinese people still know Seoul as 漢城, but i think some news media has started calling it 首爾 instead.

Yeah, in fact if you hop on the Seoul subway today you'll find that unlike nearly all the others, Seoul Station has no Chinese name, which I assume is because of this dispute. I bet the Chinese and Japanese tourists really appreciate that.

[blockthebox]

Well then why don't they just ask the U.S. to start calling Korea by its proper name too - Dae Han Min Gook??? Jesus ...

[ZhuBaJie]

Yeah, in fact if you hop on the Seoul subway today you'll find that unlike nearly all the others, Seoul Station has no Chinese name, which I assume is because of this dispute. I bet the Chinese and Japanese tourists really appreciate that.

i don't know if we can call it a "dispute", i haven't heard of any negative responses from the governments of Chinese-speaking countries. actually i haven't heard any responses to this request at all, only that some news media have started using the new name.

[Kuroyama]

Gotta love language.

It was lots of fun for me to learn Chinese terms regarding martial arts and martial artists... But now studying that same subject matter in Japan puts a whole bizzare spin on it. Meeting Japanese people who dig on Chinese culture is a BLAST. Practicing CMA is something I enjoy, but enjoying it alongside Japanese people is just too cool.

What blows my high is when we get all excited and start talking. All the terms Ive learned are in romanized Chinese. Even when my pronunciation is good, nobody here knows what Im talking about! I have to relearn all the vocab in Japanese!

You never stop learning.

[Hater Depot]

i don't know if we can call it a "dispute", i haven't heard of any negative responses from the governments of Chinese-speaking countries. actually i haven't heard any responses to this request at all, only that some news media have started using the new name.

Weirdly, I just noticed that while the subway signs have no Chinese, the sign for Seoul Forest park says 首爾林. But then when you get to the park it's been transformed into 首爾森. I guess it gets bigger as you get closer.