Hapa Project, hapa scale and "passing"

[atlasien]

Rambling post on hapaness...

I recently bought and read Kip Fulbeck's The Hapa Project (http://www.amazon.com/Part-Asian-100%25-Hapa-Fulbeck/dp/0811849597/). I also read a somewhat negative critique of the book at Racialicious/Mixed Media Watch (http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/19/do-our-faces-really-need-to-be-examined-more/).

Personally, I loved the book and felt it was a good influence on me. It would have really helped me to read it when I was an adolescent and had a lot of insecurity about my appearance. I have always been proud of who I am, but quite often growing up, I had to fight hard to feel that sense of pride. I was always comparing myself to white people or Asian people and looking at differences. My features are about 80%/20% Asian/white but my body type is more like 50/50. Plus I'm tall, which I get from my Japanese dad. When I went to Japan, I couldn't buy any women's shoes because the largest shoe in the store was 3 sizes smaller than mine! It was always quite irritating when people congratulated me on being mixed without really knowing anything about it. Being mixed meant I got every single disadvantage of being Asian in America plus sticking out like a sore thumb in Asian countries (I haven't been many places outside Japan, but I did go on a long trip to south China in the early 90s) and remembering other little kids in Japan calling me "gaijin".

It's hard to generalize about hapas, especially since I only know a few of them, but I would guess that if we grew up in a non-Hawaiian environment, we're defensive and paranoid about being singled out, or else attention fiends, or maybe even both at the same time! What I liked about the book was that I could compare my self-image to that of many other people who had something in common with me but were all different themselves... it's hard to explain but it gave me a happy, relieved kind of feeling.

I knew one other hapa when I was a teenager. She looked even more Asian than me. But I met a guy once in New York - probably the second hapa I met in my life - and I had no idea he wasn't white. He had red hair and freckles! When he told me his dad was Chinese I leaned in and looked at his eyes because I didn't believe it at first. Luckily he wasn't offended.

Meeting him was a very eery experience for me. I bet I could "pass for white" from a distance of 50 feet or so, but if the genetic dice had fallen a different way, it would have been more like 5 inches. It's hard for me to imagine how different my life and identity would have been. I don't know if it would be substantially better or worse, but it sure would have been different.

For what it's worth, the near-white hapa I met in New York seemed like a really well-adjusted guy. No Keanu Reeves, in fact he was pudgy and balding prematurely, but he had a great sense of humor and a positive attitude.

[Ike]

I glanced at Fulbeck's website and he had a few sample pages from the book.
This page made me sad, although it doesn't have anything to do with race.
http://www.seaweedproductions.com/i/hapa/samples/websample8.jpg

[Televangelist]

The reaction to the book on an individual level will be different for everyone, but on a societal level, racialicious' commentary seems about right to me. When I saw the picture of the book's cover, and the pretty girl bare from the shoulders up... my first thought wasn't about any of the issues the book was addressing, but rather, "I wonder if she was wearing anything below that in the photo?" And I'm someone who's already interested in these issues... especially for the average person who happens to see it in a bookstore, it seems like a major facet of the book is going to be titillation, which already dovetails with how hapas are already portrayed in the media. He might have tossed in a few sentences for each about their experiences, but a picture truly speaks a thousand words.

[Tyger Durden]

All that "hapa scale" and "passing" stuff has been already dealt with in History by Black/White admixtures known as Mulattos.

Sorry to use a Wikipedia reference, but they have some cool, informative stuff about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_mulatto)
Just substitute the Black in a Black/White combo with Asian and you'll arrive at the same or, at the very least, parallel dilemmas and issues discussed in that link.

I'm sure racial pride of one or both races will prevent some mixed individuals from seeing the connection between the two combinations.

[atlasien]

I have read a fair amount about other mixed race issues and "passing". It's true there are a lot of similarities.

However, one major difference is that African-Americans have a long cultural tradition of inclusiveness towards multiracial people. I used to not understand this... and always thought the "one-drop" rule was kind of insane, because it doesn't work that same way in other countries. But I started to see the positive side of it as well.

At least in the U.S., A multiracial black/white child (with one parent definitely white) will grow up with much more of a black identity than a multiracial identity.

[Tyger Durden]

Thank you for reminding me Atlasien.

Yes, the so-called "one-drop" rule makes most, if not all black/white admixtures automatically choose or be forced to choose their black side.

But the ones who have distinct White features really do have problems fitting in with both races/ethnicities and yes, the issues of Passing and being alienated by both sides is more of a possibility.

However, because there is no "one-drop" rule for Asian/Whites, i have to agree with you in that the issues of Passing and alienation are probably stronger when you have this ethnic combination.

Of course, on an individual level, experiences can vary, no matter your ethnic combo.

[little mixed girl]

I have read a fair amount about other mixed race issues and "passing". It's true there are a lot of similarities.

However, one major difference is that African-Americans have a long cultural tradition of inclusiveness towards multiracial people. I used to not understand this... and always thought the "one-drop" rule was kind of insane, because it doesn't work that same way in other countries. But I started to see the positive side of it as well.

At least in the U.S., A multiracial black/white child (with one parent definitely white) will grow up with much more of a black identity than a multiracial identity.

blacks do not really have any history of "inclusiveness" towards any types of mixed people.

the one-drop rule was heavily placed on blacks, but it also extended to other minorities.
during japanese-american internment, they said that a person who was 1/4 japanese was elegible for camp-time. half-japanese and people married to japanese/JAs were also put into camps.

the one-drop rule started to keep ppl out. even after it stopped being used, minority communities adopted it to keep members and to keep mixed people in line.

when my mom was born, there was almost no option for identifying as mixed. people that identified as mixed in minority communities were cast as sell-outs or told that they had to choose.
there really is no "positive" side to the one-drop rule.

it's a "you're with us or against us" thing.
why should a mixed person be forced to abandon part of their identity to satisfy someone?

whether or not one of my parents was nicer than the other or i look like one more than the other, i can't change the fact that i'm mixed by ignoring it and pretending that i'm monoracial because it may please some ppl around me.

i don't think that you can say that a black/white person will grow up with a black identity.
that may have been the case 30 yrs ago, but people born since the 80s are increasingly positive towards a mixed identity.
i've met many black/white individuals who identify as mixed. and among those, i've met ppl who look "full" white.

there isn't a good amount of literature on mixed race ppl. the stuff that is out there follows ppl that hate being mixed, or only looks at why being mixed is harmful.

it's true that there is a rocky history with mixed ppl in america, but that doesn't mean that being mixed is something to be ashamed of or that it's something to hide.

[atlasien]

I agree, a mixed person should not have to sacrifice part of their identity.

But I have to disagree that black people in America do not have a history of inclusion. I think it's going to be different from community to community, but especially in places that have a cultural influences from Latin America or the Caribbean, there are a lot of black people that are vocally proud of being multiracial. So that's the positive side... there's also a negative side, of course, and a lot of dismissive/distrustful attitudes towards biracial people.

[little mixed girl]

I agree, a mixed person should not have to sacrifice part of their identity.

But I have to disagree that black people in America do not have a history of inclusion. I think it's going to be different from community to community, but especially in places that have a cultural influences from Latin America or the Caribbean, there are a lot of black people that are vocally proud of being multiracial. So that's the positive side... there's also a negative side, of course, and a lot of dismissive/distrustful attitudes towards biracial people.

but latin america and the carribean are not the USA.
it's somewhat strange to say "black people that are proud of being multiracial".
the cultures in south america and the carribean don't operate on the same way of thinking about race as the US.

they are X because they were born and raised in country X.

there are a large number of multiracial ppl in those countries, but i don't think they ID as multi-racial, they ID as whatever nationality they are....because if most ppl are mixed, then they don't need to think about it in the same way as ppl in the US.

same with eurasian countries.

however, i wouldn't say that blacks are more inclusive of mixed ppl over any other group. it may seem that way because black/white ppl in the public eye claim a black identity, but that doesn't mean that they were welcomed with open arms into the black community.

[DONKEY]

there isn't a good amount of literature on mixed race ppl. the stuff that is out there follows ppl that hate being mixed, or only looks at why being mixed is harmful.

this seems to be true but it raises the question: is there anything good about being mixed?
let me know.

[atlasien]

it's somewhat strange to say "black people that are proud of being multiracial".
the cultures in south america and the carribean don't operate on the same way of thinking about race as the US.

they are X because they were born and raised in country X.

there are a large number of multiracial ppl in those countries, but i don't think they ID as multi-racial, they ID as whatever nationality they are....because if most ppl are mixed, then they don't need to think about it in the same way as ppl in the US.


What I mean is that black people in the US with heritage from Latin American and Caribbean countries often know they are multiracial and are proud of it.

For example, a friend of mine in college born in the US but was of Haitian origin. He also had mostly African and some South Asian ancestry. He had a definite black multiracial identity. The black part of the identity came first, but the multiracial was also there.

I'd also have to disagree that people in those countries only identify as nationality and not race. When they immigrate to the US they are their nationality first of all, yes, but they also have the same racial identity they had in their home country. The one-drop rule might not exist, but there's a huge amount of racial stratification involved. For example, in Brazil, whether you look 100% African in origin versus 50% versus 2% determines a lot of your opportunities in life.

it may seem that way because black/white ppl in the public eye claim a black identity, but that doesn't mean that they were welcomed with open arms into the black community.

Well, even if the black community welcomes them with half-closed arms, it would still be a lot more welcoming than the white community :)

[atlasien]

this seems to be true but it raises the question: is there anything good about being mixed?
let me know.

Cons:
- lovely questions like "what the hell are you anyway"
- not resembling many of your relatives
- you're screwed if you need a bone marrow transplant

Pros:
- If Asian/white multiracial, plus extremely young and thin, increased chance of success in model or pop stardom in Southeast Asia (this is a new one on me)
- Increased chance of getting a college scholarship (does NOT apply if Asian/white multiracial)
- hmm... little mixed girl, help me out on this one :)

A lot of people will cite "being pretty" or "the best of both worlds" as advantages of being multiracial, but those are just kind of silly.

Personally I like being mixed and couldn't imagine being any other way... being treated as an outsider by both white and Japanese people isn't fun, but it was definitely character-forming and has encouraged me to be independent in my thinking.

[Anansasem]

Little Mixed Girl, I really don't understand where you're coming from. I'm half Norwegian, one fourth Japanese, and one fourth African American. I'm 6'5'', and I'm told I look mostly like 'The Rock,' or maybe Sinbad.

Basically, if I went to any of those communities besides 'black' and put forth my claim I would get little more than disbelief or a sort of "Cognitive Dissidence" that would make them unable to acknowledge the connection. In a 'black' community I may be mixed but it's usually "Nigga, we all mixed with something and we all black!"

If I tried to apply 'white' or 'Asian' to myself it would feel very remote, while 'black' fits almost perfectly. To tell you the truth I actually have an ingrained disdain for 'whites' and outright resentment even for the word "Japan."

If anyone asks, I'm usually 'black.' If they ask more, I'll just say, "My mom's 'white.'" I'm not about to tell anyone aside from a close friend about my Japanese heritage, as they'll usually just start mocking the ridiculousness of it. The problem is I usually don't feel offended, though I then get confused about whether I should be even though I don't in any way identify myself as an Asian American. It is much easier to be a 'mixed black and white' in a 'black' community than any other way in my situation.

I'm actually glad I look as 'black' as I do, I'm not sure about white/Asian, though being a little black I don't think I could fit anywhere else if not there.

[Anansasem]

I have to add to my previous post. The truth is I feel emotion bordering on aversion when I think of the Japanese. Why?

I have a small insignificant relation to this country I've never been too, I have never even met or remember any of my relatives who share this abnormality. My grandfather, an African American WWII Army Engineer and my grandmother, some half-starved Japanese refugee, what sort of connection or commonality could they possibly have felt? Why the hell would these two people who couldn't possibly be further apart marry and have a family?

How would they even stay together long enough to have a family in a segregated 1950's American world. How would my father grow up in this twisted setting and meet my mother, a Norwegian with already two 'black and white' children. Now I'm born, as what? At that time it was simply 'black,' what's wrong with that? Why do I continue to think there even has to be more?

Now my father, the poor tragic outcast, turns out an abusive waste of life who my Norwegian mother decides to leave? Why the hell would she be attracted to him in the first place? What about my simply 'white and black' siblings, why is there now an even more twisted difference?

Then I'm now living in a 'black' and Hmong community of all things? I can't be just 'black,' but I'm sure as hell not the Hmong type of Asian either. Then I keep finding myself watching Japanese anime, and reading Japanese novels like Musashi, all the while I'm trying to think how narrow minded and culture exclusive it all is. Yet I keep having an interest in this! Why?

I don't know any of these people in my abnormal lineage, buy my Norwegian mother? Yet I sure as hell am no Norwegian? Yet black isn't enough either? Then can I be another 'black and white.' NO! I have to keep thinking about some stupid twisted insignificant connection to a country I've never seen and know almost nothing about?

Why the hell can't I just let myself be 'black and white?' It would be so much goddamn easier! Hah, as easy as being a mixed 'black and white' is! Am I really so pathetic and needy that I need to feel accepted by an abstract culture with almost NO representation in the U.S.

Why the hell do I care so much, that some tiny group of people were indifferent to me when I tried to say I was partially one of them?

An African American WWII soldier and a Japanese WWII refugee having some off-hand mixed kid, and then that kid has something else with a Norwegian women!

It has to be the most ridiculous joke I've ever heard! HAHAHAHAA! The most stupid and twisted thing I can think of, and it's all f*ckn' what I am.

[Ike]

Preface: I don't know the answers. I don't know you. I'm not trained in anything but posting random shit on the internet. I'm just throwing stuff out there and trying to help you think.

I have to add to my previous post. The truth is I feel emotion bordering on aversion when I think of the Japanese. Why?

In your introduction thread, you mentioned having joined the Asian American club at your school and having it not go over well. You also made a distinction between how lighter-skinned AAs are seen in the US vs darker skinned ones. It sounds like people generally deny you the opportunity to identify as part-Japanese, and you think life would be easier without that part. But you're here, so it seems it's something you want to work to change though. Can't be hating part of yourself. (I also hope this vitriol doesn't extend to Japanese or Japanese-American people whom you don't know.)

I have a small insignificant relation to this country I've never been too, I have never even met or remember any of my relatives who share this abnormality. My grandfather, an African American WWII Army Engineer and my grandmother, some half-starved Japanese refugee, what sort of connection or commonality could they possibly have felt? Why the hell would these two people who couldn't possibly be further apart marry and have a family?

How would they even stay together long enough to have a family in a segregated 1950's American world. How would my father grow up in this twisted setting and meet my mother, a Norwegian with already two 'black and white' children. Now I'm born, as what? At that time it was simply 'black,' what's wrong with that? Why do I continue to think there even has to be more?

Now my father, the poor tragic outcast, turns out an abusive waste of life who my Norwegian mother decides to leave? Why the hell would she be attracted to him in the first place? What about my simply 'white and black' siblings, why is there now an even more twisted difference?

The decisions of your ancestors, although you are left to live with them, are not things that you had any say in or things that you can change now. People are attracted to others and get married for the most absurd reasons. Just look at reality TV.

Then I'm now living in a 'black' and Hmong community of all things? I can't be just 'black,' but I'm sure as hell not the Hmong type of Asian either. Then I keep finding myself watching Japanese anime, and reading Japanese novels like Musashi, all the while I'm trying to think how narrow minded and culture exclusive it all is. Yet I keep having an interest in this! Why?

Let me reassure you that it's not your Japanese blood showing through. Lots of people who are not Japanese at all like anime and/or Japanese culture. I'm not sure what you mean by saying it's "narrow minded and culture exclusive". Aren't all forms of media/entertainment/art/culture? That's what makes it a culture, isn't it?

I don't know any of these people in my abnormal lineage, buy my Norwegian mother? Yet I sure as hell am no Norwegian? Yet black isn't enough either? Then can I be another 'black and white.' NO! I have to keep thinking about some stupid twisted insignificant connection to a country I've never seen and know almost nothing about?

Why the hell can't I just let myself be 'black and white?' It would be so much goddamn easier! Hah, as easy as being a mixed 'black and white' is! Am I really so pathetic and needy that I need to feel accepted by an abstract culture with almost NO representation in the U.S.

Why the hell do I care so much, that some tiny group of people were indifferent to me when I tried to say I was partially one of them?

Again, I think you care because there's a part of you that you must always suppress to make other people like you, and in turn, you've begun hating that part of yourself. It's not your fault and there's nothing you can do about it. The people (whatever race they are) who don't accept that you're part Japanese, they're wack. You don't need their acceptance.

Also, keep in mind that Japanese Americans from your school do NOT represent all JAs and certainly not all people who look East Asian.

[atlasien]

Sounds like you are going through some hard stuff...

Identity can be a repressive prison, a continuum, or a work of art. Other people have the power to define you, but everyone has the power to define themselves in some way.

Try to focus on the ways you can define yourself, and read about how other multiracial people have handled their own questions.

The following list of multiracial rights helps. Some of these rights are easy to claim, some you might decide are not worth claiming, others you have to fight for.

http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/dec96/blurring5.html

The Bill of Rights:
I have the right:
-not to justify my existence in this world
-not to keep the races separate within me
-not to be responsible for people's discomfort with my physical ambiguity
-not to justify my ethnic legitimacy

I have the right:

-to identify myself differently than strangers expect me to identify
-to identify myself differently than how my parents identify me
-to identify myself differently than my brothers and sisters
-to identify myself different in different situations

I have the right:

-to create a vocabulary to communicate about being multiracial
-to change my identity over my lifetime - and more than once
-to have loyalties and identify with more than one group of people
-to freely choose whom I befriend and love

[maogirl]

Pros:
- If Asian/white multiracial, plus extremely young and thin, increased chance of success in model or pop stardom in Southeast Asia (this is a new one on me)




ah yes...nothing like being able to take advantage of colonial mentality.

[Anansasem]

I appreciate the support Ike and atlasien.

I’m not usually that emotional it was just that I thought I’d have a sip of Hennessy (typically black, heh) and I may’ve emptied the bottle. Damn, that thing was over 90 bucks.

Though, it may have loosened my inhibitions and allowed me to express issues I may not usually realize consciously. Though, your comments do help to alleviate some of the identity anxiety. I don’t remember posting that specifically, just vaguely browsing on my computer.

My girlfriend, a ‘white’ Norwegian, must’ve heard me verbalize some of this to her that night and she actually brought me some research she did the following afternoon. She showed me records that stated most African Americans had significant Chinese ancestry brought about by the Chinese Exclusion Act, which left a large group of Chinese men with very few Chinese women. This led to 57% of Chinese men marrying African American women in the late 1800’s. This has the significant meaning that now several generations later sees many African Americans that may lack the features and awareness of this history, but are in reality partially directly descended from the Chinese.

She really is to good for me, I can’t imagine how long it would’ve taken her to look for this in the Public Library without any context to start with. Again, let me thank you fella’s as well.

[Ike]

Wow... awesome girlfriend.

[Tyger Durden]

...She showed me records that stated most African Americans had significant Chinese ancestry brought about by the Chinese Exclusion Act, which left a large group of Chinese men with very few Chinese women. This led to 57% of Chinese men marrying African American women in the late 1800’s. This has the significant meaning that now several generations later sees many African Americans that may lack the features and awareness of this history, but are in reality partially directly descended from the Chinese...

does this person have references/links of this research she can share with the general public?

[Anansasem]

Ike, you come across as sarcastic to me.

[Ike]

Nope. No sarcasm, just respect.

[Anansasem]

Alright then, I appreciate it.

She told me that she couldn't find very much online, most of what she found where small sections in textbooks. It appeared to her that no one really acknowleded it more than to say there where far more Chinese men then women. I tried to look for myself and found nothing, my girlfriend showed me this; the only thing that even mentions the issue is here which is merely localized to a single area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriages#Asian_and_Black
It almost seems that it's thought to be unimportant, I guess it was just something among minorities. Also, any children would've probably been considered 'black' and reintegrated back into that ethnicity.

It also states, "the absolute numbers of Asian American women are 51% more for Asian American women as opposed to Asian American men among the six largest Asian ethnic groups" Maybe the issue of gender intermarriage disparity between Asian men and women is partially due to this reason, if it's accurate.

[Ike]

If that were true, I would think that would be the CAUSE of the IR disparity. ie: White men go overseas and bring home Asian wives.

Plus, it says a lot about American society that you're easily accepted as black and ridiculed for being Japanese... when you're really the same amount of both.

[Anansasem]

Hah, more like easily demoted as a 'black.'

[RebelAzn]

Hey Anansasem,

Interesting discussion. I am glad people like you do bring some of this to light cause most Asian Americans are unaware of what mixed kids go through. I had a good friend when I was young who was half Chinese/half Irish who sort of went through this too since he looked more Asian. His Chinese grandparents disowned his father for marrying his mother so it was a little harsh. Then again, this happened a long time ago so it was a different era.

Also, there were many Chinese men who went to South America for work that settled and married local women with many of them being African descendants. Once in a while you will find a black looking person with a large name Chung or something. There is a kid who plays Safety for the University of Oregon Ducks football team (he is damn good BTW) in the PAC-10 whose name is Patrick Chung and he looks more on the black side. I am sure he have some Asian blood in him. There is a basketball player who recently committed to South Florida Bulls of the Big East and his name is Miramar Chin. He looks totally black but I am sure there were some Asian blood. I watch a lot of sports and always get curious when someone who has an Asian last names shows up.

Also, if you ever watch the great explorer Zhang He (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He) He traveled and visited bunch of places in the 1300's and some of his men stayed in parts of Africa. To this day, some of the people claim Chinese Ancestry with some of the people definitely lighter skin with Chinese eyes. I saw it on the Discovery Channel the other day and it was really interesting. There are some discussion he might have discovered America before Christoper Columbus.

[nskripchun]

Hey Anansasem,

Interesting discussion. I am glad people like you do bring some of this to light cause most Asian Americans are unaware of what mixed kids go through. I had a good friend when I was young who was half Chinese/half Irish who sort of went through this too since he looked more Asian. His Chinese grandparents disowned his father for marrying his mother so it was a little harsh. Then again, this happened a long time ago so it was a different era.

Also, there were many Chinese men who went to South America for work that settled and married local women with many of them being African descendants. Once in a while you will find a black looking person with a large name Chung or something. There is a kid who plays Safety for the University of Oregon Ducks football team (he is damn good BTW) in the PAC-10 whose name is Patrick Chung and he looks more on the black side. I am sure he have some Asian blood in him. There is a basketball player who recently committed to South Florida Bulls of the Big East and his name is Miramar Chin. He looks totally black but I am sure there were some Asian blood. I watch a lot of sports and always get curious when someone who has an Asian last names shows up.

Also, if you ever watch the great explorer Zhang He (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He) He traveled and visited bunch of places in the 1300's and some of his men stayed in parts of Africa. To this day, some of the people claim Chinese Ancestry with some of the people definitely lighter skin with Chinese eyes. I saw it on the Discovery Channel the other day and it was really interesting. There are some discussion he might have discovered America before Christoper Columbus.

The joke "Chinese people are everywhere" does have some truth to it... South America does have a huge population of people of Asian ancestry, especially Chinese and Japanese.

On a Western Hemisphere related note, a book I ordered recently off of Amazon.com that I'm looking forward to reading:

Our History Is Still Being Written (http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=066506331270df1cd6313 8e1aad228d0)

It's a book about 3 Chinese-Cuban generals, men who descended from the Chinese community in Cuba that dates all the way back to the 1800s: Moises Sio Wong, Armando Choy, and Gustavo Chui. All 3 participated in the Cuban Revolution and are still alive today, heading up various programs.

[atlasien]

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He) He traveled and visited bunch of places in the 1300's and some of his men stayed in parts of Africa. To this day, some of the people claim Chinese Ancestry with some of the people definitely lighter skin with Chinese eyes. I saw it on the Discovery Channel the other day and it was really interesting. There are some discussion he might have discovered America before Christoper Columbus.

Thanks for bringing up that history here, it's a fascinating story. The admiral was a Chinese ethnic minority, a Muslim and a eunuch. He'd made it pretty far up the social scale.

There's also a theory that a group of Buddhist monks might have made it to California around 500AD.

I just have to note that I wouldn't use the term "discovered" America. There were already plenty of people there who knew where they were.

[DONKEY]

Our History Is Still Being Written (http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=066506331270df1cd6313 8e1aad228d0)

It's a book about 3 Chinese-Cuban generals, men who descended from the Chinese community in Cuba that dates all the way back to the 1800s: Moises Sio Wong, Armando Choy, and Gustavo Chui. All 3 participated in the Cuban Revolution and are still alive today, heading up various programs.
reading the same book now. its pretty good.

[DONKEY]

Cons:
- lovely questions like "what the hell are you anyway"
- not resembling many of your relatives
- you're screwed if you need a bone marrow transplant

Pros:
- If Asian/white multiracial, plus extremely young and thin, increased chance of success in model or pop stardom in Southeast Asia (this is a new one on me)
- Increased chance of getting a college scholarship (does NOT apply if Asian/white multiracial)
- hmm... little mixed girl, help me out on this one :)

A lot of people will cite "being pretty" or "the best of both worlds" as advantages of being multiracial, but those are just kind of silly.

Personally I like being mixed and couldn't imagine being any other way... being treated as an outsider by both white and Japanese people isn't fun, but it was definitely character-forming and has encouraged me to be independent in my thinking.
good to know that somebody is happy with being mixed since i mostly meet mixed people who are not happy about it and it kind of gets me down. in fact the happiest times of my life is when im not thinking about it and it hasnt been on my mind for a few days. some mixed people i know dont like to discuss it and i can understand why since it becomes a very tiresome topic that reoccurs ever since the days you were first able to speak.
right now i have one mixed friend in my town and we have never discussed it with each other. i think it is a unspoken understanding between us since by pure coincidence we have each met the other's parents and are well aware of each other's background.
i dont know if being mixed has granted me any advantages socially or otherwise but maybe it has in some ways that i dont even know yet. i dont feel like a very "independent thinker" most of the time because i know that all of my thoughts are brought on by outside influences that i dont always have control over.
some general observations ive made about minorities and mixed people:
1. being a racial minority almost always works against you in situations where race is a factor
2. overwhelming majority of societies in the world disapprove of interracial marriages and their offspring to varying degrees
3. "passing" one way or another is not an option for most mixed people (i dont know why it is even still discussed today except in the context of someone being 1/16th something and calling it "passing")
4. most people respond more positively to people of their own race (duh)
5. most people will not identify a mixed person as a person of their own race because differences are always more noticeable than similarities
6. mixed people have never consistently been able to count on being accepted into any minority community or establish communities of their own except through de jure segregation which is an oppressive measure used by the majority to pit mixed people against minorities
7. being mixed is not something you can change and "accepting" it doesn't change your situation at all because the problem was never really your own unacceptance, it was just everyone else's

so im not against kip fulbeck or what he is doing because i dont see how it could do any further harm. he got an idea and he threw it out there and now he's produced something from it which is more than most of us can say.

[atlasien]

good to know that somebody is happy with being mixed since i mostly meet mixed people who are not happy about it and it kind of gets me down. in fact the happiest times of my life is when im not thinking about it and it hasnt been on my mind for a few days. some mixed people i know dont like to discuss it and i can understand why since it becomes a very tiresome topic that reoccurs ever since the days you were first able to speak.


I think the experience is so different depending on where we come from and where we live, but for me, I went through an identity crisis around the time I was 13. I resolved a lot of issues at that age and constructed an independent position for my teenage years. Recently, I have been thinking about this stuff a lot more, because I want kids now... if I have biological children, they will be quarter-Asian and maybe pass for white, maybe not. That's kind of a hard thing to wrap my mind around! We're also in the adoption process now, with no idea what the race of the child might be.

You should read this woman's story at Antiracist Parent. It's called "To Be a Lost Child". http://www.antiracistparent.com/2007/03/02/to-be-a-lost-child/
It was very moving. It makes any of the hapa racial stuff I went through seem like small potatoes. But now she's married with three kids and has a PhD.

If I want to articulate more what I like about being a hapa, it's all based around being an outsider. For example, I'm glad I'm not white, because I see so many white people are deluded by their whiteness and living in this weird fantasy world, yet defensive and guilty about it... I also don't have as much of a love/hate relationship with Japan that I see some Japanese-Americans have. So being an outsider means you lose a lot of privileges that come with belonging and conformity, but it also toughens you up and forces you to live without illusions. Unless of course you go too far and create an image of yourself as multiracial messiah. I don't know anyone like that in real life but I've heard they are out there.

Visiting Hawaii briefly was a massive shock, because I realized that if I'd grown up there, I would have fit right in. No big deal. Everyone just assumed I was Hawaiian until they heard me talk. I have a genetic predisposition to independence because my mom and dad are both "I could care less what society thinks" kind of people, but my personality would have been a lot different if I'd grown up in Hawaii.

Anyway, there are two ways of creating a positive identity, one is by accepting your difference, another is by finding people who share the same experiences. You can both at the same time. Both of them have advantages and disadvantages...

Your point number 6 is interesting. I think it's false when viewed over a long period of time, though. Racial boundaries constantly shift. The person who is mixed now might be a "purebred" in a few hundred years. We just happen to be caught at a place and point in time when our genetic combination sticks out.

[RebelAzn]

Interesting discussion. I realize there is a huge inner conflict with most hapas. Can some of you guys share what it is when it comes to dating? I am sure there must be some conflicts there as well.

[atlasien]

I'm not saying I'm perfectly free of racial hangups, but the race of who I went out with was never a big deal to me.

Once I was rejected by an Asian guy I was really into :( He was a Korean-American political activist from the Midwest. We really got along. I was laying the groundwork to take our friendship to the next level. He'd been talking about a good friend of his coming to visit from their hometown. She showed up. I saw them together for the first time. I heard piano notes in my mind and Biz Markie howling: "BUT YOU SAY SHE JUST A FRIEND..." I made a graceful exit. Her being white was an exacerbating factor. But then again, if she was Asian I probably would have still been upset. Actually, come to think of it, I would have been equally upset if she was white, Asian or hapa, but if she was black or Hispanic I feel like it wouldn't have bothered me as much, go figure.

Even though my parents are divorced they had a mostly healthy relationship so I'm sure that helped me out a lot. If I'd grown up with messed-up parents like in the link I posted earlier... oh man, I don't even want to think about it.

[Ike]

That reminds me of the time I was a summer camp counselor at a Chinese American camp. One of the girls in my group was hapa, and she was crying after one of the dances because the guy she had a crush on said he "didn't date American girls".

[RebelAzn]

Most mixed kids do have a hard time dealing with dual identities. It is really too bad actually. I can't speak for other Asians, I have no problem welcoming all the half Asian hapas into the Asian community.

[atlasien]

I think the Asian-American community will firmly include hapas in the future. "Asian" is a new-ish racial category in America and it makes sense to form a category as inclusive as possible in order to achieve common goals. Your attitude is the right one, RebelAzn.

However, if other people don't think I'm Asian, it's really their problem, not mine.

[RebelAzn]

I think the Asian-American community will firmly include hapas in the future. "Asian" is a new-ish racial category in America and it makes sense to form a category as inclusive as possible in order to achieve common goals. Your attitude is the right one, RebelAzn.

However, if other people don't think I'm Asian, it's really their problem, not mine.

Agreed. We are already small in number so any increase in our number is positive for the community. I hope Asian American men and women (including hapas too) do try to stick together instead of getting divided over racism and interracial dating issues.

[Hadouken]

My question is: is "hapa" really a fair term for everyone who's mixed? Sounds to me more like a convenient label when you're too lazy to find out who the person is, or when, "what the hell are you?", is considered too rude. Do all people of mixed background wholeheartedly embrace this term? Not knowing many of them myself, I really can't say. Why not just call yourself a French/Japanese mix, or an Indian/Russian, or Italian/Irish/Chinese/Japanese....wait.....I see the problem, now. Nevermind. I guess my next question is: do hapas prefer to identify themselves as, well, "hapa", or by whichever ethnicity they chose to identify with (like, simply "Japanese", even though you're half something else). How do people respond to you when you do that? This is of course aimed at the mix people on this forum. I'm curious.

[Dirac]

I'm "English" because it's my culture, my nationality, where I grew up.....and also because I look it?

[atlasien]

My question is: is "hapa" really a fair term for everyone who's mixed? Sounds to me more like a convenient label when you're too lazy to find out who the person is, or when, "what the hell are you?", is considered too rude. Do all people of mixed background wholeheartedly embrace this term? Not knowing many of them myself, I really can't say. Why not just call yourself a French/Japanese mix, or an Indian/Russian, or Italian/Irish/Chinese/Japanese....wait.....I see the problem, now. Nevermind. I guess my next question is: do hapas prefer to identify themselves as, well, "hapa", or by whichever ethnicity they chose to identify with (like, simply "Japanese", even though you're half something else). How do people respond to you when you do that? This is of course aimed at the mix people on this forum. I'm curious.

I think everyone has the right to identify themselves, within reason. So I can't speak for other multiracial people. If a mixed Asian doesn't like the term hapa, they don't have to use it. But I've heard the use of hapa to describe oneself is getting VERY popular and I can guess at some reasons why, using myself as an example.

Having to slice yourself up like a pie on meeting new people can get very tiring. A unitary identity is nice. The only word available used to be "Eurasian". It just sounds yucky and it also privileges the "European" side. I used to tell people I was half-Japanese. After a certain point I realized I was perpetuating the idea of an invisible white standard. In other words, being multiracial was like starting off with a can of white primer then adding color.

To defeat that image, I started saying I was half-white and half-Japanese. This makes some people really uncomfortable to hear the word "white", even though it's totally true and honest, but I still do it.

So hapa is a nice word because it doesn't carry a lot of baggage like Eurasian or Amerasian. It also applies to more than just Asian/white mixes so it creates a sense of a larger group. For this reason, I think a lot of younger multiracial Asians have adopted the term. I also identify as Asian, American, Asian-American, Japanese-American, and Anglo-German (the ethnicities on my white side). I believe identifying as white would be politically wrong and also insane (no one would believe me anyway) but it's a trickier question for other multiracial people who are usually perceived as white.

[Anansasem]

If you don't still have me on ignore, can I ask about Asian/Black multiracial people? I'm not even going to begin to understand my own Norwegian/Japanese/African American identity, though I'm usually considered 'black' and something else. I still get asked the "what are you" questions occasionally, and rarely there are some who even say I look Filipino or Southern Asian, heh.

An Italian student in my class today asked me what I am, and I actually said Hapa. The guy had no idea what I was talking about and just dropped the issue, it was actually a refreshing alternative then the usual awkwardness afterwards.

I don't think Asian Americans are that much of an unsubstantial portion of the U.S. population. In the 2005 census I saw that they made up about half the percentage that 'blacks' did, and with the amount of immigration I'm sure that they now have a higher representation here, now as well. Add that to their impressive financial statuses and they could become a voice to be heard.

[Ike]

An Italian student in my class today asked me what I am, and I actually said Hapa. The guy had no idea what I was talking about and just dropped the issue, it was actually a refreshing alternative then the usual awkwardness afterwards.

I hope he didn't actually phrase it as "What are you?" because that's just annoying.

[Anansasem]

Yep, he said "what are you?" I've given up saying 'human,' as they usually then say "yes, but what you, like where do you come from?" "America," nope that response won't do either, which is where I usually just get angry.

[Ike]

I remember coming across like that when I asked a friend what his accent was. I think I asked if he was Italian. He ended up telling me that he was mixed black/white, but I really just thought his voice was interesting (in hindsight, it's just that he's got a really deep voice and talks slowly).

Edit: Sorry I derailed the thread!

[Hadouken]

[QUOTE=Having to slice yourself up like a pie on meeting new people can get very tiring. A unitary identity is nice. The only word available used to be "Eurasian". It just sounds yucky and it also privileges the "European" side. I used to tell people I was half-Japanese. After a certain point I realized I was perpetuating the idea of an invisible white standard. In other words, being multiracial was like starting off with a can of white primer then adding color.

To defeat that image, I started saying I was half-white and half-Japanese. This makes some people really uncomfortable to hear the word "white", even though it's totally true and honest, but I still do it.

So hapa is a nice word because it doesn't carry a lot of baggage like Eurasian or Amerasian. It also applies to more than just Asian/white mixes so it creates a sense of a larger group. For this reason, I think a lot of younger multiracial Asians have adopted the term. I also identify as Asian, American, Asian-American, Japanese-American, and Anglo-German (the ethnicities on my white side). I believe identifying as white would be politically wrong and also insane (no one would believe me anyway) but it's a trickier question for other multiracial people who are usually perceived as white.[/QUOTE]

I'm fairly new to this so feel free to call me stupid if I accidentally insult you out of complete ignorance. That aside, it seems to me that the term, "hapa" doesn't really identify you as anything aside from being of mixed backgrounds. Speaking for myself, when I identify myself as Chinese, it's more than just a physical trait. It involves a culture, set of beliefs, an upbringing that is an indespensible part of me. I'm sure when you label yourself as "hapa", a lot of people are quick to disregard that and bombard you with more (annoying) questions about what you really are. That is because when a person identifies herself with a particular race, she's also providing a tidbit of her background. And that's what most people are seeking when they ask about your race. Of course, most of the time those people will just take your answer and quickly generate a list of stereotypes and leave it at that. But my point is, identifying yourself as "hapa" is -if you'd forgive me for putting it so bluntly- begging the question as to what your background is.
You sound to me like you want to identify yourself as Japanese. I wonder why not just chose that instead of "hapa". I know you went through some hell and I don't want to pretend like I can understand. But race is more than just a set of genetics. Just because a bunch of intolerant Japanese people refuse to accept you does not automatically make you not a Japanese. This may seem like adding another burden to your shoulders and I'm not saying that you have to change the world. But there will be more hapas in the future, and I don't think we should just leave them in a limbo. If being American is not longer associated with blue eyes and white skin, then a person shouldn't have to have slanted eyes and yellow skin to qualify as Japanese, or Chinese, etc.

[atlasien]

I don't identify as Japanese because I am not Japanese in nationality and only slightly Japanese culturally. I don't hate Japanese people or resent them, I'm just facing facts. To be Japanese I would have to at the very least speak Japanese and be committed to contributing to Japanese society, and I don't have that commitment.

Being Japanese-American or nikkei (member of the Japanese diaspora) is a related identity but also very different. After all, Japanese-Americans and Japanese fought on opposite sides in WWII. Because of different social and economic circumstances, I think Japanese and Japanese-Americans may have a much different relationship than Chinese and Chinese-Americans... maybe because China is a much larger, diverse country?

I think Ireland and Irish-Americans are a great parallel. If an Irish-American goes back to Ireland and expects to be greeted with open arms, they're fooling themselves. Some people will extend them hospitality and other people will think "who the hell do you think you are, you're not really Irish, you ran off when we had problems so you don't get to come back here and tell us this is your country".

Hapa is predominantly a racial term, not an ethnic term... although maybe in Hawaii it's more ethnic. Since members of minorities are already racialized, it's very hard to escape race and just use ethnicity. Race is applied to use whether we like it or not. Chinese, Japanese, hapa or Filipino, your average American white person has already fit us into a box based on superficial visual cues. So it's not a term I use to give people insight into my background. If I want to give people insight into my background, I would actually explain my personal history and so on. The function of "hapa" is really more like a shorthand symbol.

All of this stuff about race I'm applying to America, not Japan... I'm very interested in race and ethnicity in Japan though. Right now there is a very narrow definition of what "Japanese" means in Japan, but I think it's going to change and broaden. As the population grays and Japan imports more and more guest workers diversity will increase. There are also Korean-Japanese who complicate the ethnicity balance. Also, there are many Japanese-Brazilians living and working in Japan now, some hapa some not, who are having an interesting time assimilating.

[Hadouken]

I don't identify as Japanese because I am not Japanese in nationality and only slightly Japanese culturally. I don't hate Japanese people or resent them, I'm just facing facts. To be Japanese I would have to at the very least speak Japanese and be committed to contributing to Japanese society, and I don't have that commitment.

All of this stuff about race I'm applying to America, not Japan... I'm very interested in race and ethnicity in Japan though. Right now there is a very narrow definition of what "Japanese" means in Japan, but I think it's going to change and broaden. As the population grays and Japan imports more and more guest workers diversity will increase. There are also Korean-Japanese who complicate the ethnicity balance. Also, there are many Japanese-Brazilians living and working in Japan now, some hapa some not, who are having an interesting time assimilating.

Atlasien, I'm sorry that I mistakenly thought you wish to be identified as Japanese. I feel like such an ass. Thanks for your insights, though, they're very interesting.

I'm also rather interested in the state of Asian immigrants in Japan, given Japan's shoddy history with its neighbors. I hear those immigrants get a rough time from the conservative Japanese that are in charge, mostly being blamed for all of society's ills.

[Hadouken]

To the mixed people in this thread: how much of a factor does your upbringing come into play if you were to identify your ethnicity? (for example, if one grew up surrounded mostly by Korean culture despite one's mixed parentage, I would think that person should mostly pick up on Korean practices and values). Would your upbringing play a greater or lesser part than genealogy when it comes to your identifying your ethnicity?

[theme]

fuhgeddaboutit.

same BS everywhere I go. People opening their yap when they clearly don't have much at stake.

[Tyger Durden]

fuhgeddaboutit.

same BS everywhere I go. People opening their yap when they clearly don't have much at stake.

one day maybe explain what you meant by this statement...or confession.