Chinese People In The UK Prefer To Be Called "Orientals"

[KHANartist]

This thread appeared on aznforums.com recently. For those of us from the UK it`s difficult to think of Chinese/Japanese/Koreans as Asians. That term is almost exclusively for those of us of Indian/Pakistani etc origin. In Edmonton we have an Oriental food section in the grocer`s and many CHinese owned stores have the word "Oriental" written on their sign.

http://www.sunion.warwick.ac.uk/portal/organization/11405/

[Millerboy]

This thread appeared on aznforums.com recently. For those of us from the UK it`s difficult to think of Chinese/Japanese/Koreans as Asians. That term is almost exclusively for those of us of Indian/Pakistani etc origin. In Edmonton we have an Oriental food section in the grocer`s and many CHinese owned stores have the word "Oriental" written on their sign.

http://www.sunion.warwick.ac.uk/portal/organization/11405/

I call myself an Oriental sometimes too. I don't see it as a "racist" or bad term like many on ModelMinority.com forums seem to see. Maybe they are too Americanized. When I used the term "Oriental" or "Mongoloid," they all screamed at me and yelled racial slurs like "cracker" or "whoriental." Supposedly, I'm not supposed to identify as those terms because they are racist slurs to "Asian" people. I'm just an "Asian" and I can't use any other term to describe myself.

Eh, I guess it's just the people at ModelMinority like cheapfuijianese, Size_X, dac, FatFish, and others. I forgot the rest, but I would figure all of the active posters on that forum, which is the total is 7-10.

A selection of my posts at ModelMinority forums: http://www.thefighting44s.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17519&postcount=11

[LaiSteve66]

lol that thread on aznforum is almost a year old.

Anyway,

UK USA
Oriental <----> Asian
Asian <----> South Asian

Just regional semantic differences.

[Dialectic]

Yeah they have to do that in the UK 'cause "Asian" means the brown ones. Making the word "Oriental" racist was something done by Edward Said; I understand where he was coming from, but that was because "Oriental" meant a whole lot more back then and carried a ton of exotic connotations, and included everyone from the Middle East onwards. Now it just means East Asians, and it's an easy word to use for clarification purposes.

Remember that "Asians" in North America really only refers to East Asians, and the browns got nothing except the lame "South Asians." We should probably switch to the UK section :P

[Hater Depot]

I always said Southeast Asians..

[ZhuBaJie]

it's really only Asians in North America that think the word "Oriental" is racist. i don't mind the term, but i don't use it because i understand the rationale for taking offense to it.

[Tyger Durden]

This thread appeared on aznforums.com recently. For those of us from the UK it`s difficult to think of Chinese/Japanese/Koreans as Asians. That term is almost exclusively for those of us of Indian/Pakistani etc origin. In Edmonton we have an Oriental food section in the grocer`s and many CHinese owned stores have the word "Oriental" written on their sign.

http://www.sunion.warwick.ac.uk/portal/organization/11405/


Shouldn't the Chinese in Britain call themselves "Chinese"? That would make the most sense, right?

[Tyger Durden]

following up my post above--why don't Indians and Pakistanis in the UK prefer to call themselves "Indians" and "Pakistanis"? :confused:

[Anarchrist]

Yeah they have to do that in the UK 'cause "Asian" means the brown ones. Making the word "Oriental" racist was something done by Edward Said; I understand where he was coming from, but that was because "Oriental" meant a whole lot more back then and carried a ton of exotic connotations, and included everyone from the Middle East onwards. Now it just means East Asians, and it's an easy word to use for clarification purposes.

Remember that "Asians" in North America really only refers to East Asians, and the browns got nothing except the lame "South Asians." We should probably switch to the UK section :P

At the risk of suffering from your mythological bo staff testicle strike I'm going to correct you, Dialectic. Edward Said's designation of Oriental (based on the British designation) meant only people of the Near East. People from China and Japan (and Korea, yada yada) were known as people from the Far East.

This is strange concerning the HK folk, cause it probably means that they're not responding to an old British designation, but rather, some filthy White American rat that goes there, calls them Orientals, complains about the food, goes to eat Macdonald's, then crosses the bridge to Shenzhen to pay $30.00 to shag two underage farmboys.

[Anarchrist]

it's really only Asians in North America that think the word "Oriental" is racist. i don't mind the term, but i don't use it because i understand the rationale for taking offense to it.
I agree. Brothers and Sisters, to some extent fortunate, most of the rest of the world isn't as hung up on terminological racism as we are. I mean they are to some extent, but we American minorities are REALLY freaky about it.

You know something though, on a completely random tangent - George Bush's snyde expressions and remarks at the Queen of England today caused a reaction in the British public and in the media that I found surprisingly similar to our reaction to media humor with racial undertones (Like Rosie O'Donnel). I mean, obviously the rhetoric was entirely different, but it was that incendiary volume of accusation towards what some would write off as "subtle behavior" on behalf of the dumb President that sparked the eerie association.

[Dirac]

To be fair, I think the English media are just looking for any excuse to criticize George Bush.

I'm no fan of the Queen but winking at a head of state shows a lack of respect - she should have whacked him with that stupid handbag she carries around!

[KHANartist]

I agree. Brothers and Sisters, to some extent fortunate, most of the rest of the world isn't as hung up on terminological racism as we are. I mean they are to some extent, but we American minorities are REALLY freaky about it.


Yes, it`s true that it`s mostly just the USA that has this racial terminology fetish. Many times what passes fro racism wouldn`t even register in other parts of the world. The word "Oriental" being a good example of that.

[nightshade]

Yes, it`s true that it`s mostly just the USA that has this racial terminology fetish. Many times what passes fro racism wouldn`t even register in other parts of the world. The word "Oriental" being a good example of that.

Just because things fly as being not racist in one country doesn't mean that it's any less racist in another country.

[KHANartist]

Just because things fly as being not racist in one country doesn't mean that it's any less racist in another country.

Are you saying that the word "Oriental" in your opinion is not only offensive, but racist because it`s not part of the vernacular where you live?

[nightshade]

Are you saying that the word "Oriental" in your opinion is not only offensive, but racist because it`s not part of the vernacular where you live?

Dude, you bring tears to my slanty eyes.

Yes, the term is racist.

Hell, have you heard the term "negro" used lately? No!

The words "Oriental" and "negro" are no longer part of the North American vernacular BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE COME TO SOME KIND OF UNDERSTANDING THAT NEITHER SHOULD USED ANY LONGER, whether they understand the reasons/historical implications or not.

This link will give you a idea of why "oriental" is a racist term (http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=143).

Some highlights from the above link:

“The word ‘oriental’ carries with it racist overtones and anyone who thinks that those offended by it are just hypersensitive do not understand the implications of what it means to be stereotyped,” Washington Rep. Velma Veloria told PNews.

Many Asian Americans are unaware that the term “Oriental” is offensive because the term is often used in their home countries to refer to its citizens, the Philippines included, especially because the Philippines is also known as the “Pearl of the Orient.” In Europe and the United States, however, the term acquired a Eurocentric depiction of the worst of Asian habits and lifestyles. Hence the word “Oriental” was spoken with derision. To Asian Americans who know its historical reference, the term is as repugnant as the “N” word used to slur African Americans. “Many people didn’t realize the term had negative connotations,” Shin legislative aide Scott Passey told PNews how constituents responded to consultations about the issue. “But once they understood, they were very agreeable. A few simply refused to believe the word was negative despite the historical evidence and dictionary references.”

[KHANartist]

Yes, the term is racist.

Not to people outside the USA it isn`t. As the article I included showed Chinese people in Britain disagree with you. I`ve met many East Asians who refer to themselves as "Oriental", none of my black mates refer to themselves as "negroes". I think the best thing to do is respect the wishes of others and refer to people as to their preferences. If Chinese in the UK want to be called "Oriental" that`s what we should do and if Chinese in America want to be called East Asian that`s what I`ll do then.

[howstrange]

I think the best thing to do is respect the wishes of others and refer to people as to their preferences. If Chinese in the UK want to be called "Oriental" that`s what we should do and if Chinese in America want to be called East Asian that`s what I`ll do then
Yeah, I find that approach to be the most just. You have to let a person or group of persons define themselves.

[Ike]

In America, just don't use it. It will save you a lot of trouble.

[KHANartist]

In America, just don't use it. It will save you a lot of trouble.

I`m not planning a trip to the USA anytime soon, but I`lll keep that in mind if I ever do go there.

[yamato]

following up my post above--why don't Indians and Pakistanis in the UK prefer to call themselves "Indians" and "Pakistanis"? :confused:


because they are British? Most British people don't have an obession with being British-[insert nationality/continent here]

The word oriental isn't offensive here. I don't see how it is offensive in the Us either and I've read Said. The 'best' explaination I had was from an angry American girl who shouted 'I'm not a piece of furniture'.:eek:

I never said she was!

Anyway, if you're gonna ban the word 'oriental' then it only makes sense to get rid of 'occidental' as well.

[Ike]

Anyway, if you're gonna ban the word 'oriental' then it only makes sense to get rid of 'occidental' as well.

No one calls people "occidental" anyway. They were probably calling you "accidental".

You say yamato... I say troll.

[tokyolovestory]

The whole thing about Oriental and Occidental is ridiculous. I've never heard anyone being called "Occidental."

The reason why the word "Mongoloid" is often offensive is because it was used to describe people with Down's Syndrome. Ooookay? In the same line of thought, there's also the word "Negroid," but see what happens when you use that with black people.

I know this thread is really old, sorry for reviving it... I just had to explain why Mongoloid is actually legitimately controversial.

[tripostrophe]

Badda-bump.

I disagree with most of the logic here. Oriental is an offensive term because it draws upon colonial images of (contemporarily) Asia, and (historically) the Middle East. So it's not only racist, but fundamentally ambiguous. It's used to describe people of East Asian origins, but also still used to describe furniture of Middle Eastern origins. It has roots in outdated views of these regions as foreign and exotic, and serves to objectify/exotify and "other" Asian peoples.