Help Anna Mae facebook group and my reply..

[MiNiBoiE]

I was wondering if anyone on facebook knew about the Anna Mae case and lo and behold, I found a group!

http://hunter.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2231993914

Wonder if that link works.. Anyways I read the summary of the group and found this:

"This is based on the Anna Mae He court case. It has been going on for a while. Below is a short summary for those of you who are not aware of the situation. Again it is just a short summary of one persons opinion on the situation. It is bias and I am not forcing anyone to do anything. If you care to read more their are many sites that describe the situations. If you feel moved enough to want to write your own opinion on the situation please comment below. All comments are welcome. Thank you. And please, Pray for this poor child and her *rightful* parents, The Bakers. They need all the prayers they can get!

Anna Mae He has been living with Jerry and Louise Baker since she was three weeks old. Annas biological parents placed Anna with the Bakers through a Christian Foster Assosiation when she was three weeks old. It was only temporary. Then later, The Hes asked for them to adopt their child. After refusing at first the Bakers agreed to take care of this child till she was 18. The two couples wrote up an unofficial documentation of the agreement. After having visitation rights, Mrs. He had the cops called on her when she would not leave the home of the Bakers. She was told to never return to their home. The Hes then abandoned Anna Mae for four months with no contact because of it. Later down the road her biological parents decided that they wanted her back. The Bakers were the rightful parents of Anna Mae by this time. They have been fighting in courts for many years now. Today the supreme court ruled in favor of her biological parents. Anna is almost eight years old now. Please pray for this little girl. She is being placed in the hands of her biological parents and taken away from her life, friends, school, and most importantly, her family. Her best friend is Amy Baker, the youngest of the Baker sibilings. She has grown up with Amy, shares a room with her and even sleeps in the same bed as her. She does not want to go with the Hes. She is scared of them and if you try to talk to her about them she covers her ears and runs into the other room. Please place your vote at the website below. Please help keep Anna with her rightful parents!"


Okie.. not exactly the kind of group I was expecting.. Anyways I read some of the comments and couldn't help but put my own response down in their forum. Also interesting to note that Hope Baker (The Baker's daughter) and her friends posted quite a bit.

[MiNiBoiE]

"I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this.

I don't know either party personally but I'm with John Yacoubian (It isn't that hard to type yah know.. and poking fun at his last name is pretty lowbrow and immature) here. Also When I mention the Bakers, I mean the parents. I have not read anything about the Baker Children (Well until now but it's a lot).

First things first, I wonder how many people have heard the He's side of the story? That man went through a lot of shit before Anna Mae's birth and after. If he didn't care about Anna Mae, why would he go through all this trouble? He already has 2 children in the U.S. and was on a student visa to be here so the whole "He wants a green card!" point is moot. He's also a smart, capable guy from what I read.

Second things second, the Bakers delayed the courts in order to try to extend time with Anna Mae. This was noted in the Supreme Court Ruling. Increasing the time with the child gives more time to raise her, yes, but also more time to influence her. I saw this video: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2893839 and even though it was made to sympathize more with the Bakers, I can't help but think they added to Anna Mae "hating her own heritage" (To people here who dunno, Asian American diaspora is pretty common already). That’s disturbing.

What if I adopted a white baby from Europe and that child started hating white people as he/she grew older? Whose fault would that be? Hell even assuming if I had no hand in making the child hate white people, wouldn't it be up to me to preach love and understanding?

Third things third: My parents needed a babysitter for me and my three brothers whenever they went to work (When we were younger AND poorer of course). Where did/do they work you wonder? My mother does interviews for a local radio station and does real estate. My father owns a successful bakery. I'm pretty sure they were unfit to raise me and my brothers, no?

Fourth: There really WAS racism involved in this case. It was not John Y's "opinion" as one has stated. That Judge Childers gave a garbage analysis that “Mr. He fears returning AMH to the Peoples Republic of China because the death rate for children of AMH’s gender is fifty (50%) in that country. According to CIA World factbook 2006 estimates,
China has 1.06 males to 1 female (That's pretty almost 50% of each gender). If China really was what Childer thought it was, there would be 2.00 males for every 1 female. That's some nice stereotyping of an entire nation and people there.

The He's WERE going to send Anna Mae back to China TEMPORARILY so she could live with the family there until the He's got back on their feet but apparently that didn't happen and I'm sure there was nothing wrong with that plan, after all they're not the first family to go on temporary hardships.

There were more racist things involved as well, I'll provide some linkage of course.

Fifth: The He's DID TRY TO VISIT HER!! The Bakers, however, told them to not come back and got the police involved. It was said that the Bakers denied money from the He's (So the whole "lack of child support" reason can be used) and that Mrs. Baker secretly wanted the He's to visit less and less.

Sixth: To the person who mentioned having a little sister snatched away and asked how would I feel. Of course I'd feel pretty crappy but I wouldn't deny the real parents their visitation rights. Also how would YOU feel if you went to a new country and tried to start a great life when:
1) A girl falsely accused of you sexual harassment and the police believe her despite there being a complete lack of evidence and/or witnesses.
2) Having your FULL SCHOLARSHIP and stipend being stripped because of said harassment.
3) Having that girls husband BEAT UP YOUR PREGNANT WIFE because of said harassment (Which added to the financial hardships of the He's).
4) And last but not least, being denied your own flesh and blood..

How would YOU feel?

It definitely seems to me that NO ONE got to know the He's side or wanted to know their side. I guess to you all, Mr. He is just some terrible chinese asshole, right? Anyways moving on..

Seventh: To Mike Smith, THE HE'S DID NOT GIVE UP ON THEIR CHILD! They were denied because of court manipulation and unfortunate misunderstandings. Also the He's already have children in the U.S. AND the Bakers and Childer did a lot more drugging of the courts than the He's...

Eighth: To the person who said "How can you just force a kid to leave her life, her world, and not even ask her how she feels? this is the greatest injustice i have ever seen."

Well How can you force two parents to not see their child? How can you not allow her birth parents to give child support? How can you cheat the court systems and employ racism to obtain your goals? This is the greatest injustice I have ever seen.

Also this further makes me think that no one here bothered to read into the He's side of the story (Especially after reading that summary on the main page). No one seems to really know what's going on from both sides. Yeah I know saying that will really anger you guys since most of you are Hope's personal friends but the He's have a story too. It just seems everyone here is making an assumption about them and what's going on.

Ninth: To Jonathan Yeung and Minna Zhao, I thought you guys would know more about this case but I guess was wrong.

Tenth: To everyone that says that it would be terrible for Anna Mae to be ripped away from the only family she knows.

I agree with you.

But all the events that led up to this certainly leaves a terrible taste in my mouth. What can be ultimately done now? Of course everyone would think her best interest is with the Bakers, and I agree too... somewhat but she's been living with the Bakers her whole life because of the manipulation the elder Bakers did.

In the end, Hell I'm split. Despite what I wrote, all the damage has been done and I think Anna Mae will have problems of her own regardless of whether or not she goes back to the He's or stays with the Bakers.

This would be a very different story if the He's willingly left Anna Mae. I'd be rooting for the Bakers but this was not the case.

There, I know I will be flamed to hell and back (pun intended). Here are some lovely links!

http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2007/02/19/little-girl-found-commentary-on-the-case-of-anna-mae-he/
http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2004/07/22/my-baby-girl/ - not written by the actual father but the facts involved are true.

Also I really don't like upsetting people, don't think I have some kind of personal vendetta against anyone. It was not easy for me to write all this (With my freezing hands and numbing brain) and I know this will set some people off but I think the He's side needed to be told. I know I delved into some personal issues with all this but I am hoping for an in depth responses."

I doubt I changed any minds but I just had to say SOMETHING darn it!

[Dialectic]

Great response, miniboie. It's good to see so many people who care.

[atlasien]

The only thing I would add is that whether the Hes are great people or not is actually beside the point. They could be selfish, stupid, manipulative, dysfunctional, greedy, whatever. That's not grounds for having your children taken away. There's no "you must be this much of a saint" license to have children. Beating your kids with a tire iron, or abandoning them in a meth lab, or being completely and semi-permanently incapable of taking care of a child due to some kind of chronic illness... now those are reasonable grounds to take children away, and even then parents will have opportunities to show they've improved and get their children back.

The Bakers should feel ashamed for hurting their biological daughter as well, but I doubt they're able to feel that emotion.

In the adoption-related forums and blogs I visit, no one has much sympathy for them.

[MiNiBoiE]

atlasien - what adoption blogs and forums do you visit? i could use more links

and thanks for the responses. Hope Baker herself (college age daughter) posted on the wall. Her and all her friends go to christian schools. There were actually 3 someodd people who were either for the He's or neutral.

[atlasien]

Here is an adoption forum thread:
http://soulofadoption.com/forum/index.php?topic=20125.0

Here is some reaction from transracial adoptee blogs:
http://thehyphenator.blogspot.com/
http://darthfoofie.wordpress.com/2007/02/21/why-me/

[atlasien]

As a caveat, there is probably Baker support in the fundamentalist Christian corner of the internet adoptosphere. Even there I'm betting it's not unanimous, especially since I'm pretty sure the Hes are Christian.

[santoki]

hm... on facebook only the posts by david kim show up.

in any case, being a TRA (transracial adoptee) I do not feel sorry for the Bakers at all. All my sympathy goes out to the Hes and especially to AMH. If the Bakers hadn't done everything to keep her she would not be in this terrible situation. And another thing you have to consider. Even if she stayed with the Bakers. She would one day start to wonder about her birthparents. And when she learns more about her story, I'm not really sure she'd love the Bakers any longer... kids are smart enough to realize certain things, too.

How screwed up is such a justice system that just takes away children from their biological family? It just doesn't do any good to the credibility of the whole justice system.

[Vetrean]

Anna Mae is the real victim. And I don't think it's a matter of the justice system; more the people in the justice system. It's obvious that legal technicalities shouldn't be brought into play when a girl's future and upbringing are being decided.

I'm siding with the Hes, though I do feel a little sympathy for the Bakers as well. Still, I think they were wrong in their desperate grabbing at the few ends they had left, prolonging the legal process to create a stronger emotional attachment between themselves and Anna Mae, as well as erasing any strong cultural/ethnical identity she may have had and appealing to the emotional side of the masses.

[nskripchun]

and thanks for the responses. Hope Baker herself (college age daughter) posted on the wall. Her and all her friends go to christian schools. There were actually 3 someodd people who were either for the He's or neutral.

That kinda pisses me off... GJ "Christians" in showing the love of Christ and NOT showing any sort of compassion for the He family, let alone having an interest in social justice. Sadly, as this kind of blind racism is pretty prevalent among many well-meaning white Christians. As an Asian American Christian, I encounter this kind of BS all the time.

In any case...

Great responses MiNiBoiE. Facebook isn't exact the high point of intelligent folks on the internet, and I'm glad you spoke up to that group.

On a sidenote, if you want to start a "countergroup" in support of the He family, I'd be first in line to join (yeah, I have a Facebook account... got sucked in by my HS kids). Shoot me a PM if you want to do it.

[awong]

its good to see that board not being one sided, after reading miniboie's post along with the latest wall posts

[atlasien]

I'm not a Christian at all, but I believe there is a very relevant part of the Bible for this case, 1 Kings 3:16-28:


16 Now two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. 17 One of them said, "My lord, this woman and I live in the same house. I had a baby while she was there with me. 18 The third day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone; there was no one in the house but the two of us.

19 "During the night this woman's son died because she lay on him. 20 So she got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I your servant was asleep. She put him by her breast and put her dead son by my breast. 21 The next morning, I got up to nurse my son—and he was dead! But when I looked at him closely in the morning light, I saw that it wasn't the son I had borne."

22 The other woman said, "No! The living one is my son; the dead one is yours."
But the first one insisted, "No! The dead one is yours; the living one is mine." And so they argued before the king.

23 The king said, "This one says, 'My son is alive and your son is dead,' while that one says, 'No! Your son is dead and mine is alive.' "

24 Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword for the king. 25 He then gave an order: "Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other."

26 The woman whose son was alive was filled with compassion for her son and said to the king, "Please, my lord, give her the living baby! Don't kill him!"
But the other said, "Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!"

27 Then the king gave his ruling: "Give the living baby to the first woman. Do not kill him; she is his mother."

28 When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice.


The Bakers are the ones who are trying to rip Anna Mae apart. I feel sorry for their biological daughter, who's about to lose a sibling, and I did have some sympathy for them as parents... until they released that disgraceful video.

[Vetrean]

I think that's rather unjustified. The Bakers aren't trying to rip Anna Mae apart; they're simply playing all the cards they have to keep her, and in the process, ended up harming her. It's deplorable, but that's the way it worked out.

The bias of the lower courts also played a significant role in this, though.

As for the video...it's just another desperate bid, this time to get the 'public sympathy' card played.

[atlasien]

The Bakers aren't trying to rip Anna Mae apart

Maybe not 100% consciously, but that's EXACTLY the effect of their actions. When she's older and trying to form a racial identity, and sees videos of herself denying that she's Chinese, it's going to to worsen the psychic wounds she already has. She's afraid of Chinese women now. She's going to look in the mirror and realize the world doesn't see her as white, and she'll start to be scared of herself and hate herself as well.

If the Bakers would really think about what they're doing to her, they would have given her back long ago. It's all about what she means to them, not about her as a child and human being. They're not making the slightest effort to instill pride in her roots. They'd tear out the Chinese part of her if they could, no matter what damage it would do to her. The damage I'm talking about is not fanciful. It's been described and studied quite a bit.

And I'm not even someone who's against transracial adoptions. My perspective is that there's a better way and a worse way to handle them, and the Bakers are like the textbook description of the worst transracial adopters ever, except that they're not even adoptive parents -- they're more like illegitimate foster parents. The Bakers are so in the wrong here, and I think their effort to get public sympathy backfired for a lot of viewers.

[Vetrean]

And I'm not denying that what they're doing is wrong, and that they haven't been thinking about Anna Mae herself, and other stuff. Because they quite clearly are in the wrong.

However, I don't think they're trying to do this to her, which is the key word here. Although I suppose I have to admit that they are trying to get rid of her Chinese-ness, but that's not the point.

[atlasien]

What is the point, then?

That the Bakers aren't gloating demonic psychopaths who delight in sheer evil? Easily conceded.

[Vetrean]

Close enough.

It just seems like there's a severe lack of humanization of the Bakers from the people on this side.

EDIT: Oh, right, just remembered; the point was that you using the story of Solomon and the baby isn't really drawing much of a parallel.

[nskripchun]

The story of Solomon and the two women is an interesting interpretation of the Anna Mae He case... but I think there are better Bible verses that are much more direct.

The "Christian" Bakers and the "Christian" agency that place Anna Mae with them ought to be reminded of these verses:


"When an alien* lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." - Leviticus 19:33-34 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Lev%2019:33-34&version=31)


"Do not deprive the alien* or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this." -Deuteronomy 24:17-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2024:17-18;&version=31;)


"Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien*, the fatherless or the widow." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!" ->Deuteronomy 27:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2027:19;&version=31;)

*alien = immigrant. But ya already knew that, right? ;)

But yeah, it makes me sick to my stomach when people claim the "Christian" thing to do is for the Bakers to "have" Anna Mae. There's no excuse for how they Bakers have completely used the legal system to take advantage of He family, who are immigrants to this country. Frakkin racists.

[aelward]

I just watched the ABC news clip and am horrified at the one-sidedness. I am disgusted at how Mr. Baker wants to "reach out to the American (i.e. White) people." All the things they did to keep AMH away from her biological family fall nothing short of legal kidnapping. Talk about miscarriage of justice in the lower courts.

[nskripchun]

Yeah, the news clip was completely biased. No mention at all of the plight of He family or of the truth facts of the case... that the Bakers basically STOLE Anna Mae from the He family after the He family requested that their parental custody rights be restored.

Oh, and some verses from the Bible that are a little bit more directly related...


"When an alien* lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." - Leviticus 19:33-34 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Lev%2019:33-34&version=31)


"Do not deprive the alien* or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this." -Deuteronomy 24:17-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2024:17-18;&version=31;)


"Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien*, the fatherless or the widow." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!" -Deuteronomy 27:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2027:19;&version=31)

There you have it... if the Bakers are really "Christians" (ha!), maybe they would have thought twice about the horrible way they treated the He family (who are 1st gen immigrants to the US).

*alien = immigrant, of course