Tyra Banks Show

[Catatonic]

Did anyone catch the Tyra Banks show which focused on IR relationships?

http://telepicturesblog.warnerbros.com/tyrashow/2006/10/healing_racism.html

[General Grievous]

Yes, I saw half of the show. There was an AF on there who said that she only dates WM because most Asian guys wear glasses, and they only care about studing and playing video games. I saw one AM in the audience who wanted to refute those claims, but you can't do that on Tyra's show.

Anyway, Tyra fixed her up with an AM. She told him why she didn't date Asian males. She talked and talked and talked.
So, Tyra asked if she would date him again. She didn't say no or yes.
So Tyra said: "I dated Asian guys before and they are fine....if you don't want him there's plenty of girls in the audience that will." So the girls in the audience start screaming "Yes!"

Interesting, there was a BF who says she only date BM. But the BM had to look like this and that. So Tyra sent her on a date with WM. And later she asked the BF if she would date WM and she said "Yes".

We Asian guys think we have it rough, but it's nothing compare to what the BM must go through with BF. So we may not have it so bad after all.

[Catatonic]

Interesting, there was a BF who says she only date BM. But the BM had to look like this and that. So Tyra sent her on a date with WM. And later she asked the BF if she would date WM and she said "Yes".

We Asian guys think we have it rough, but it's nothing compare to what the BM must go through with BF. So we may not have it so bad after all.

What are you talking about? BFs, for the most part, have stuck with BMs.

Besides the AF, who stated she didn't date AMs and only hung out with whites (since Asians are all geeks), there was also the gay AM/WM couple (of course).

On the "date" the AF wouldn't shut up about how AMs are all geeks, while the AM just stood there - until he pointed out that she was dissing Asians and only hanging out with whites b/c she had a fear of being tainted with the same brush.

The gay AM denied that he was a potato queen, even though he stated that he doesn't date AMs and loves his white boys (he was also confronted by a former (reformed) potato queen - who stated he had the same beliefs until a college professor asked him why he "hated himself" - but such concerns were poo-pooed away).

Funny how there always seem to be a gay AM/WM couple and never an AM/WF (much less a regular AM/AF couple).

[Ike]

I scrolled through the list of comments. Some of those poor people are racist and don't even know it. They brag about how "open" they are while using hurtful stereotypes and generalizations. Not to mention that there is still a very "Us vs. Them" mentality evident. :cry:

But I think it is very good that multiple times Tyra has tried to expose AFs who only date WMs in a bad light. <- That was awkwardly phrased, but you know what I mean.

And my favorite post (from a guy who gets it):

Dear Tyra

I write from Kingston, Jamaica where your show is seen daily on cable.

Just finished watching the Interracial Relationships episode.

The issue of race has remained a very explosive issue not only in America but world wide. This is so, mainly because of European conquest and subjugation of dark skinned people and with the economic system which came with imperialism/colonialism came a system of belief in racial inferiority and/or superiority.

Today in Jamaica, the land of Marcus Mosiah Garvey, race is still a big issue although many people do not wish to discuss it, as is the case in America.

There used to be a saying that was popular before the 1970s "If you are white, you are alright, if you are brown, you can stick around but if you are black, you should stand back."

Certainly issues like these must affect interpersonal relationships no matter how tolerant the parties to the relationship are.

[deyegoroe]

<SNIP>Interesting, there was a BF who says she only date BM. But the BM had to look like this and that. So Tyra sent her on a date with WM. And later she asked the BF if she would date WM and she said "Yes".

We Asian guys think we have it rough, but it's nothing compare to what the BM must go through with BF. So we may not have it so bad after all.

sorry, but i gotta disagree here.

one obvious example would be to look at mass media representations, particularly in film & tv and even behind the camera. sticking with acting, bms can be seen in any number of leading roles, and further, as viable romantic partners for bfs and others. denzel has been paired up with hottie eva mendes - TWICE.

if you look at the evolution of the bm in movies/tv, you can trace a logical progression; BIRTH OF A NATION depicted bms as sub-human; shows like "Amos 'n Andy" continued the buffoonery and minstrelcy; then in the tumultuous 60's, came a breakthrough - blaxploitation. definitely niched, characters like SUPERFLY and SHAFT nonetheless portrayed virulent and masculine take no shit LEADING characters; presently, where bms are leading men.

but no such parallel exists for ams. the closest we come is bruce (who was never seen as a viable romantic lead despite having a wf wife) or john cho who all too briefly hooked up with latina hottie paula garces. there are other historical anomalies such as BRIDGE TO THE SUN where james shigeta hooks up with carroll baker, but that was over 4 decades ago. there are other anomalies but they are so marred by pugilistic racism, like THE LOVER, that they are flawed examples at best.

[Makulita]

Gotdamn, why couldn't she smack down that chick like she did with the chick who got blepharoplasty?

[NoName]

I saw the show. What bothered me was when the AF said, "She does not want to go with at FOB...even though I am a FOB." :shock: I respect the guy, not sure if I could just stand there while she was saying all that.

We Asian guys think we have it rough, but it's nothing compare to what the BM must go through with BF. So we may not have it so bad after all.

In some areas it is difficult to date as a BM. In my area the BF do not want me, a professional BM; however, they would go for BM that fit the negative stereotypes. That caused me to date interracially.

A few months ago while I was walking with my then girlfriend, of another race, I was approached by BF and was called a sell-out/race traitor.

Maybe if I moved to California or New York area....

Do AF like BM?

[badwill]

Why do Asian girls keep going on TV and saying dumb shit? If you don't have anything positive to say about a person, shut the fuck up. That's like second time on Tyra Bank's show. Damn...I don't have a TV, so I want to see how ugly this girl is. Please post video if you have it.

[Fandango]

We Asian guys think we have it rough, but it's nothing compare to what the BM must go through with BF. So we may not have it so bad after all.


Uh, dude. My black friends are constantly dating women of all races. They have latina, black, asian, and white women wanting to get to know them all the time.

When it comes to the dating scene, it'd be a hell of a lot easier for me if I was black. Trust me.

[kalbi]

I haven't ranted or raved here in a while, so I'll give it a try. :lol:

Fandango, you're trippin man. Not all BMs get ass thrown at them "for free", by a huuuuge semgment of the female population, as you make it sound.

Simply put, it's just the black man's fortune that the particular segment of the female population that would date them is adequately big enough. It's still a small minority, but considering that BMs are a minority in this country to begin with (about 5% of the general population, which is exactly half of the 10% population figure for black people on the whole), just having 10% of the rest of female-America willing to date BM gives them more than enough oppurtunities. That is what's going on here.


And that's just 'passive game' - where you let females come to you. If you take into account 'active' gaming, then you see what's truly at work, and exactly HOW BMs get their repuations as "ladies men". It's not any kind of "negro charisma" - it's because black guys PUT IN THE WORK THAT ANY GUY SHOULD PUT IN TO FINALLY GET A FEMALE THAT WILL FUCK HIM. The black guys generally follow through and risk rejection, while more (than not) white and especially Asian guys can't get over their approach anxiety and just stand back and do nothing. And at the end of the night - guess who goes home with the girl?? That's right - the brotha who approached 11 white women, got rejected 10 times before he found a slightly chubby, half-drunk one that would've made out with anyone in sight anyway.

If you ever go to nightclubs, observe and make note of this. Black males use a SHOTGUN approach - they just say 'fuck-it-all' and hit on EVERY SINGLE FEMALE IN THE CLUB. It's only a matter of time before they find a drunk or tipsy AF/WF/BF/LF, or an individual who just happens to be within that 5-10% who might find BM attractive or will consider them. It's simple probability at work, and I can vouch for it since I've tried it myself. EVEN AS AN ASIAN MALE. For every 10 non-Asian women you hit on without any "pre-screening" (smiling at them and getting them to flirt or smile back, which shows a potential interest in AMs or at least an interest in YOU as an individual) - about 2 to 3 of them show responsiveness (and the rest are polite but say no, and VERY rarely, some are rude.. but fuck them hoes. :lol: ), depending on how put-together you are and how "on" your game is (game imo means your social skills and your mental state at that particular moment). Keep in mind that this is just with the typical shotgun approach used by most black males.

Don't create these fantastic, FALSE realities in your heads about black guys 'cleaning up' - it's a pile of crap. Worst of all, since in all probability you'll be a typical Asian who's typically too harsh on themselves, you'll just re-frame it to convince yourself just why you're a pathetic Asian loser (your race being the PRIMARY factor of course - not your own personal short comings as a human being), and why that black guy is such a pimp (again you'll tag it to his RACE instead of acknowledging the fact that he has a girl because he had the GUTS to keep approaching until something bit).


And finally, people are watching TV and automatically assuming that the world is accepting BM with open arms. WAKE UP. Don't let TV rot your brain. You need to clear your heads and think about it more realistically. RACE STILL MATTERS TO WOMEN, AND THIS STILL AFFECTS BLACK MEN THE MOST (and does affect other minority men too). Some black men can bag a non-BF by being the stereotypical rough-neck - women are turned on by bad-boys. But for most black men it is NOT easy to find social acceptance with a white female on his arm. It is EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT FOR THEM. You ever see how people in general act when they see a black man talking to a white woman in a public space? They politely try to avoid staring or glancing since it's not politically correct. Ok, fair enough. But that's easy enough to do since it's not THEIR DAUGHTER or niece or whatever handing out her number to the black man. It's easy to bury it away in your mind and forget about it.

A black man has to be tall, fit, cool, and yet somehow non-threatening to hope to have any kind of QUALITY long-term relationship with a WF. I say this because in a real relationship, having peers and family around you to support you is fairly important. With the exception of those ultra-liberal "let's misgenate til we all turn caramel!" hippie types of parents/friends/family, this is rare. Many, MANY white people will get uncomfortable when a BM gets that up-close and personal (like joining their family).

All this bullshit should lessen with each subsequent generation, but prejudices and social pressures are passed down also. And the older generation who harbor prejudices (which they themselves inherited) are still around to influence children and teenagers and society today. These days, its very "cool" and "hip" to be nice to black people, to pretend to be open and even to date them. But this type of hollow "MTV inclusiveness" is hardly a litmus test for how people REALLY feel. There's no empirical way to every prove this (or anything related to how people REALLY feel about race) - but I think most of it is for show. In the overwhelming number of cases - unless you're rich or successful, you're still a nigger to most whites. That's how it is. Just like how unless you're successful, you're just a chink. People have an amazing capacity for duplicity - they might spew sunshine on your ass while in your presence, but once in private you would be amazed how honest people get about you, the Negro or the Chinaman or the Wetback.

Now - since people are always comparing the supposed success of black men with the NON-SUCCESS of Asian men in interracial dating - all you've got to do is the math. Think about this from the POV of an Asian Man. We are 2% of the population - exaclty one-half of the 4% figure for all Asian Americans. Do you really think it's THAT hard to find ONE FEMALE who will fuck you, if you're cool enough of a guy? Why must you always filter it throught your RACE first? What if you're just a SCRUB FIRST, and an ASIAN SECOND? Did you get a haircut recently? Did you go to the gym? Did you buy a nice pair of shoes and a suit to go with it? Do you know how to be wild and fun, and really cut loose? If you're an Asian geek or an unfit (fat or skinny) SOB or a terrible bore- then its YOUR FAULT. While I'll concede that societal prejudice against AMs does play a role, it's got much less to do with race or 'the odds' than you think.

[kalbi]

RACE STILL MATTERS TO WOMEN

Let me get into this briefly just to clarify. Most women care about race (the very small minority of women that are very attracted to men of a race other than their own are automatically excluded from this anyway, since they'll chase their race-fetish dreams, no matter what) because women are highly social creatures. MUCH more social than men. Women define their individual power primarily through the social and kinship bonds they establish in life. Peer approval is VERY important to them in fostering and maintaining the kind of social status that will, in their Darwinian/reptilian/nstinctual rationalizatio, ensure enough of it for them to survive and raise their offspring on (in this instance social status equates directly to resources and basic necessities).

This is why many white women shun the "typical niggers, spics, and chinks" that are in reality, or from our minority perspectives, just individuals that happen to be black/brown/yellow Joe-Schmoes - and yet find themselves (sometimes inexplicably) DRAWN to black, Asian, Mexican men who are successful or show good genetic potential (attractive face, fit body, etc.).

Simply put - they SUB-CONSCIOUSLY see being non-white as a social handicap. And in a way, it is, thanks to the unspoken and racist hierarchy that is firmly entrenched in this country.

[xian]

Wow, I'm sure there's something in there that's terribly offensive, but just skimming kalbi's posts, I have to say that I totally agree with what I read.

Should we fight institutional racism? Absolutely. Can we find love and success despite inequities and racism? Absolutely.

Can we use the racism as an excuse to fail? Sure, that's common in nearly every ethnic minority community.

Fight the racism, but fight the self-pity as well.

[General Grievous]

RACE STILL MATTERS TO WOMEN

Let me get into this briefly just to clarify. Most women care about race (the very small minority of women that are very attracted to men of a race other than their own are automatically excluded from this anyway, since they'll chase their race-fetish dreams, no matter what) because women are highly social creatures. MUCH more social than men. Women define their individual power primarily through the social and kinship bonds they establish in life. Peer approval is VERY important to them in fostering and maintaining the kind of social status that will, in their Darwinian/reptilian/nstinctual rationalizatio, ensure enough of it for them to survive and raise their offspring on (in this instance social status equates directly to resources and basic necessities).

This is why many white women shun the "typical niggers, spics, and chinks" that are in reality, or from our minority perspectives, just individuals that happen to be black/brown/yellow Joe-Schmoes - and yet find themselves (sometimes inexplicably) DRAWN to black, Asian, Mexican men who are successful or show good genetic potential (attractive face, fit body, etc.).

Simply put - they SUB-CONSCIOUSLY see being non-white as a social handicap. And in a way, it is, thanks to the unspoken and racist hierarchy that is firmly entrenched in this country.


You also must remember that white women are taught NOT to date outside their race as children. They are taught not to play with people of a different race. From 2 to 18, they are brainwashed by their parents who tell them to stick to their own kind.

They might like to date you. but they often obey the program in their brain that tell them that interracial dating is wrong.
This is just like their son or daughter confess to them that they are Gay. There is no difference because it would be the same result.
They are taught that interracial dating is a sin against God. And that they must keep themselves pure. This is the reason why white women don't date outside their race.

[silkie]

Fight the racism, but fight the self-pity as well.

Amen. And well said Kalbi.

I would like to think of it this way:
I know some women are open minded to dating men of certain race,
and some that aren't.

But what is for certain is all well adjust women (women that we should go for) do not want someone who exhibits an abnormal amount of self-pity & insecurity.

Of course, some women ends up with insecure men, but either the guy hid it well, or he changed mid-course in their relationship.

[Catatonic]

In the Freakonomics analysis of online dating - the WFs, including those who stated that they were open to dating other races, picked WMs 96% of the time.

It's funny that some BMs think that the majority of women (white, Asian, etc.) want them when it is clearly not the case (the % of AAFs who marry BMs is almost inconsequential).

The vast majority of people (male or female) date/marry within their own race/cultural background/socio-economic class/religion, etc. - the 2 exceptions to this are Native Americans and US born/raised AAs (with the males being less of an exception than the females).

[General Grievous]

In the Freakonomics analysis of online dating - the WFs, including those who stated that they were open to dating other races, picked WMs 96% of the time.

It's funny that some BMs think that the majority of women (white, Asian, etc.) want them when it is clearly not the case (the % of AAFs who marry BMs is almost inconsequential).

The vast majority of people (male or female) date/marry within their own race/cultural background/socio-economic class/religion, etc. - the 2 exceptions to this are Native Americans and US born/raised AAs (with the males being less of an exception than the females).

I doubt all BM can score like as they claim. I'm sure there are some BM who are just as lonely as your typical AM. I saw a show on 20/20 or NBC Datline that said many BF can't find anybody since most of the BM are in prison or dead. And that BM don't make as much money as BF. There is a shortage of BM for the BF. The BM who date or marry the WF often date unattractive and heavy WF. Those are the ones that the WM don't want.
The exception is where I live at where guys have to take what's out there.

If the WM dates the BF, he'll date the hottest that he can find just like that he dates the hottest AF out there. I know because I seen WM with AF and BF. I don't see many AM or BM dating WF in this hillbilly town.

[Catatonic]

If the WM dates the BF, he'll date the hottest that he can find just like that he dates the hottest AF out there. I know because I seen WM with AF and BF. I don't see many AM or BM dating WF in this hillbilly town.

Most attractive BFs, however, are with attractive BMs and most WMs are with avg. to unattractive AFs (since they tend to be avg./unattractive themselves).

[kalbi]

I don't mean to discount or belittle your experiences General Grievious, but your experiences in that 'rocky' Midwestern town (as you describe it) isn't really representative of what goes down in most other parts of the country, especially major metro areas on the coasts. Just something to keep in mind.

[AZN MAN]

I've read on this forum that Tyra Banks has worked this AF theme more than once. My question to those who have viewed the segments is this: Has Ms. Banks broached the mechanism(s) that cause this type of mindset and behavior in AF?

From what's been written thus far, it's indicative that the show (And other shows) only depict the concluded mindset of these AF, not the factors involved that result in the conclusion(s).

[kalbi]

I've read on this forum that Tyra Banks has worked this AF theme more than once. My question to those who have viewed the segments is this: Has Ms. Banks broached the mechanism(s) that cause this type of mindset and behavior in AF?

From what's been written thus far, it's indicative that the show (And other shows) only depict the concluded mindset of these AF, not the factors involved that result in the conclusion(s).

Does Tyra have total creative control over the content of her shows, or does the network/station have a greater say? If she has total control, I can't imagine her not having the initiative and intelligence to get to the bottom of it.

But still - to most non-Asians getting to the bottom of our issues is a really big headache. I mean, just look at the lot of us - it's given us enough ulcers and headaches to lay waste to a medium-sized continent. I guess that unless one of us (AAs) writes Tyra and points out all the intricacies of what's at work in the minds of AFs (and the interplay with the failures of AMs and the Asian community at large to foster a sense of security and cohesiveness that would have retained the AFs - let's not forget that women are simple creatures like men, in a sense, and just crave security. We are sometimes too quick to blame only AFs and forget that us AMs and the AA community was fractured, disorganized, weak, and just stupefied for a long while - enough for quite a few AFs to abandon our ranks in search of the MIRAGE of security, which she thought existed in white men and their camp.) - it's simply beyond her capacity to comprehend it all. You can't blame her - she's not Asian. :lol: Soul-searching is a tough and arduous job, you know. :shock: Imagine what a pain it would be to do the soul-searching for a race that isn't your own! Someone needs to show Tyra what's going on, because at the rate most non-Asians go, she'll never get there on her own. Still, I give her real props for being the only daytime talkshow host to tackle this issue. It really impresses me that she would do this (AND - she said she dates AMs and finds them fine! Woo! :lol: ).

[BoondockSaints]

Tyra also showed some awareness on that "America's Top Model" show when an Asian CCB was on. Tyra asked her why she didn't date AM and seemed to be critical of it.

I think as a BF, she can empathize with AM's and thus her interest in the subject.

[toml]

I've read on this forum that Tyra Banks has worked this AF theme more than once. My question to those who have viewed the segments is this: Has Ms. Banks broached the mechanism(s) that cause this type of mindset and behavior in AF?

From what's been written thus far, it's indicative that the show (And other shows) only depict the concluded mindset of these AF, not the factors involved that result in the conclusion(s).

The executive producer of "Top Model" is Ken Mok, and AM. I'm not sure if he is involved in her talk show, but perhaps he also had a hand in this?

[Catatonic]

Tyra's not the only fine BF celeb who has an appreciation of AMs.