ME ME ME: fr. the "white people know all" files

[deyegoroe]

this actually came from another thread but i found it interesting as a touchstone:

No matter what ethnicity or race television channels you watch, there'll always be trash and/or quality programming. I still like and watch american tv. The other night I watched Anthony Bourdain do a show from Beiruit while all that Israeli/Hezbollah stuff was happening and it was an interesting special.

I watched that too. As I understood it, when the war broke out, he initially didn't think he had a show. Later, he realized he had a show, just a very different one than the usual: I travel, I write, I eat.

I enjoyed the show.

lycheng

the thing that i don't care for is that bourdain has this white boy know-it-all-seen-it-all-experience-as-making-me-fuller attitude. he tries downplaying it, but it's something i've picked up on as i've gotten older and better at reading people. in my experience it's not unique to bourdain and in fact very common amongst white people who travel. there are offshoots as well which i won't tangent into. (quickie: one is the "kcrw syndrome"; white people who listen to "everything" and are SO eclectic in their taste, the proof being that they listen to "world music"...)

the very same dynamic can be seen currently: there's spam running right now on travel channel about "moms in africa" (whatever that means), depicting white women in various degrees of interaction with black africans; holding children, getting their hair braided, etc etc. and the voice overs: "I discovered myself, in Africa" or whatever hallmark card prose they invoke - it doesn't matter it's all the same:

"I (white person) am the filter through which consciousness flows. The fact that you are witnessing this by (viewing, reading, listening to) this reifies this FACT."

it's THEIR opinions about THEIR feelings about how THEY "will never forget" THEIR experiences around black/asian/native folk, and how THEY have changed...

now, i'm a foodie, and in general really like the food network (and other shows that deal with food on the travel chan and pbs) and what it stands for in potential. but it gets stupid when white people begin pontificating on things like chorizo. some of the things i've seen them do to salsa, for instance, makes me laugh. and roll eyes.

i grew up on "things like chorizo", and mr. /ms. white person, you don't know chorizo.

[lycheng]

While I think the white boy know-it-all syndrome exists, I think there are other factors at work when it comes to TV travel shows.

First, you have to remember that it's a TV show. If the show has a host, obviously the host will get credit for experiences and specialized knowledge that was fed to him/her by their staff or local fixers. Not that I know anything about TV production, but it seems quite reasonable not to include things that show the host's ignorance.

Secondly, western produced travel shows are precisely about showing white people having a confident presence in foreign countries. I don't know if you watch Globetrekker (http://www.globetrekkertv.com/), but all the hosts come across a bit arrogantly. Why? Because the show is about showing how white people can be adventurous and not suffer any cultural problems. The producers of the show know that they are appealing to the dominant white audience's fantasy of traveling to exotic lands.

Thirdly, as a non-white person, you have to understand that the host isn't talking to you if he/she is explaining something a subject that you have first hand experience with. Actually, this applies to anything you see on TV that you have first hand knowledge of for that matter. For example, I'm a physicist and sometimes when I watch a science documentary that deals with physics, I find that they simplify things so much that it becomes inaccurate.

I think Bourdain's show is better than most shows in that he does sometimes show how awkward he's in a foreign country.

now, i'm a foodie, and in general really like the food network (and other shows that deal with food on the travel chan and pbs) and what it stands for in potential. but it gets stupid when white people begin pontificating on things like chorizo. some of the things i've seen them do to salsa, for instance, makes me laugh. and roll eyes.

i grew up on "things like chorizo", and mr. /ms. white person, you don't know chorizo.

Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. Personally I have a gripe with white people saying that tofu tastes bland. Bland??? It actually has an inherent soy bean taste; a taste that I like a lot. Granted the flavor is subtle, but to say that it's bland makes it sound inferior.

Moreover, texture is an important part of tofu appreciation. Anyone who reduces it to calling it bland doesn't know anything. There are so many kinds, from pressed sheets, to baked blocks, to all sorts of fermented varieties; a white person really has no clue. A better approach is to compare versatility of tofu with cheese. If a white person makes that analogy, then at least they're trying to understand the whole picture. Ultimately even that fails, as it's just an analogy.

lycheng

[Tyger Durden]

from watching TV, i've gotten the distinct impression that White People know a lot about wild animals and stuff like that. They must have some expertise and wisdom when dealing with Nature.

take this guy for example --

http://graphicslib.viator.com/graphicslib/2138/SITours/crikey.jpg

[cattygurl]

Zoologists and conservationists from around the word die or get seriously injured, and not too infrequently, from dealing with wildlife (and the danger that comes with it, i.e. poachers). You only hear about the famous ones, obviously.

FYI, with nature programs, David Suzuki is considered one of the pioneers.

[Tyger Durden]

....You only hear about the famous ones, obviously...

Just curious -- what Ethnicity would the "famous ones" most likely be?

[cattygurl]

Famous in the field or famous for the general public? Actually, quite a lot of South American ones- re: those that are known in the field. The Amazon isn't really the safest place to do conservation work for various reasons.

[poisenedrice]

Zoologists and conservationists from around the word die or get seriously injured, and not too infrequently, from dealing with wildlife (and the danger that comes with it, i.e. poachers). You only hear about the famous ones, obviously.

FYI, with nature programs, David Suzuki is considered one of the pioneers.

He was just joking. Please at least try to have a sense of humor once in a while.

[cattygurl]

And you do? No offense, but I don't think either one of us is the person to tell others to have a sense of humor.

[Tyger Durden]

Famous in the field or famous for the general public?

obviously i'm refering to "famous for the general public". I'm sure there are non-White experts in any field of expertise. They just don't get TV shows or movies made about them or seek to avoid the public eye by choice.

Based on what the OP brought up about White expertise, i started thinking that if anyone watches enough TV, he/she will get the distinct impression that Whites are experts on every subject. That's why i brought up the ill-fated Crocodile Hunter. Yeah, it was funny too.

Another example: judging by the Frankie Avalon movies made in the 1960's one would get the impression that Whites are the sole experts of "surfing" as well and heck, invented the sport in the first place.

[DONKEY]

I recently saw a short article Bourdain wrote since he was in Lebanon when the attacks began and got evacuated by the Marines. ZZzzzzz...... trite

[deyegoroe]

I recently saw a short article Bourdain wrote since he was in Lebanon when the attacks began and got evacuated by the Marines. ZZzzzzz...... trite

well, yeah. i mean, relying on bourdain to provide insight into the middle east - or asia or ... - is like going to kevin costner for insight into native americans.

[deyegoroe]

While I think the white boy know-it-all syndrome exists, I think there are other factors at work when it comes to TV travel shows.

First, you have to remember that it's a TV show. If the show has a host, obviously the host will get credit for experiences and specialized knowledge that was fed to him/her by their staff or local fixers. Not that I know anything about TV production, but it seems quite reasonable not to include things that show the host's ignorance.

actually, part of the reason i began this thread was just that very reason; even in their ignorance, white people love to spin their learning, their cultural broadening, as so... enchanting. like that stupid moms in africa crap on the travel channel. all you hear is white folks talking about how THEY have been changed and THEY will never forget this experience, blah blah blah. it's columbus "discovering" the new world and the natives. and i think it stinks to high heaven.

Secondly, western produced travel shows are precisely about showing white people having a confident presence in foreign countries. I don't know if you watch Globetrekker (http://www.globetrekkertv.com/), but all the hosts come across a bit arrogantly. Why? Because the show is about showing how white people can be adventurous and not suffer any cultural problems. The producers of the show know that they are appealing to the dominant white audience's fantasy of traveling to exotic lands.

well, methinks yu in some weird way overestimate them. since tv is overwhelmingly run by white people, it's not even a consideration that they are playing to white eyeballs. it's a given and as natural for them as breathing - they just move from pitch to development to production to selling to broadcasting. they certainly don't sit there and think: you know, it would be great if we got a bunch of black american moms and sent THEM to africa... no way.

and yeah, i catch globe trekker now and then and they have zero poc as hosts, as far as i've seen. what i bet's more telling is if you were to glimpse their producing team it'd probably be majority white as well, and certainly in the key strongman positions like showrunning.

Thirdly, as a non-white person, you have to understand that the host isn't talking to you if he/she is explaining something a subject that you have first hand experience with. Actually, this applies to anything you see on TV that you have first hand knowledge of for that matter. For example, I'm a physicist and sometimes when I watch a science documentary that deals with physics, I find that they simplify things so much that it becomes inaccurate.

that's not a parallel argument; physics doesn't involve social constructions - it evolves and scientists may differ as to what's relevant or in vogue, but forming opinions and spewing commentary (verbal/written and otherwise) is somethingcompletely different.

furthermore, if a white person is trying to "explain" a non-white culture or element therein, it's not like we're living in the stone age. we ARE in a post-civil rights pc era where you'd think mass media would get a clue, particularly when it comes to the dramitcally shifting racial demographics of amerikkka. the fact that it isn't this way attests to the ignorance and/or smug attitudes that prevail in the business.


I think Bourdain's show is better than most shows in that he does sometimes show how awkward he's in a foreign country.

well, see my original comment that began this thread as well as my reply at the top of this message.

now, i'm a foodie, and in general really like the food network (and other shows that deal with food on the travel chan and pbs) and what it stands for in potential. but it gets stupid when white people begin pontificating on things like chorizo. some of the things i've seen them do to salsa, for instance, makes me laugh. and roll eyes.

i grew up on "things like chorizo", and mr. /ms. white person, you don't know chorizo.

Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. Personally I have a gripe with white people saying that tofu tastes bland. Bland??? It actually has an inherent soy bean taste; a taste that I like a lot. Granted the flavor is subtle, but to say that it's bland makes it sound inferior.

Moreover, texture is an important part of tofu appreciation. Anyone who reduces it to calling it bland doesn't know anything. There are so many kinds, from pressed sheets, to baked blocks, to all sorts of fermented varieties; a white person really has no clue. A better approach is to compare versatility of tofu with cheese. If a white person makes that analogy, then at least they're trying to understand the whole picture. Ultimately even that fails, as it's just an analogy.

well, you may be a bit picayune here as i as an apa am not even aware of all the types of tofu. what i'm getting at in essence is what the multi-ethnic coalition about a decade ago was lobbying the networks on; fair representation. in front of and behind the camera as well.

i saw a show where a white boy ate durian and spit it out i front of a local farmer, claiming it was the grossest thing he'd ever tased.

on a dialectical, theoretical level, it'd be fair to have, say, a show where people of color eat haggis in front of some white boys and then spit it in their face. you know, good spirited comedy, like spritzing them in their face - only with haggis.

white people LOVE to talk about third world countries and even some non-white first world ones - where they eat "exotic" food like beating frog hearts.

now, don't get me wrong - white people have great cuisines just as many others do.

but white people eat some of the most boring but also grossest shit on earth imo. try drippings 'n toast. whale blubber on white bread sandwiches. GEFILTE FISH looks like white shit preserved for a science class in formaldehyde.

BLECCCCHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!