STAR WARS Question (can YOU answer it?) Plot hole?

[Kuroyama]

OK

Anakin and Queen Armidala (Padme) are the parents of twins Luke Skywalker, and Princess Leia Organa. At the time of their birth, Anakain has crossed over to the dark side of the Force and become Darth Vader.

The Jedi realize that Vader must never know about the successful birth, and location of the children. They are separated and given to foster parents. Luke is given to the Skywalkers on Tatooine, and Leia is given to Senator Bail Organa and his wife. The true bloodline of the children was to kept forever secret.

Given this:

How is it that since Episode 4 (A New Hope), we have always known Leia as "Princess Leia"??

A Princess gains her title by being daughter to a Queen, NOT daughter to a Senator. Just how secret was Leia's bloodline?

[aurochs]

I seem to remember Leia in Jedi saying that she barely remembered her mother because she died when Leia was very young (in response to Luke's question about what she knew of her parents before dropping the info on her that they are twins fathered by DV).

So I assume that everyone in the entire Universe regarded Leia as being the daughter of Bail Organa and his wife. Perhaps Bail Organa's (deceased) wife was Royal and Leia inherited her title?

And, in the Lucas Universe, Royals can also be senators (see Amidala/Paddle Me).

Anyway, who cares? The entire series is FUBAR.

[Kuroyama]

Well Aurochs... YOU care(d) enough to give an insightful answer...

Yeah, after I posted this I tripped over to Wikipedia and found "His Highness Senator Bail Organa" with his own wiki.

Im guessing its somthing to do with that.

As far as Leias answer in SW6, she was talking about Amidala. I dont know if we are expected to believe her memory extends back to birth. Most people dont accept that memory extends that far back, though for me, I remember being in the hospital after being born.

And I dont have an "unusually strong natural ability" with the Force.

As far as SW being FUBAR... There are things I would have done differently if they had asked me to write it. But its so easy to sit back and pick apart someone elses work. Lucas for better or worse created a phenomenon with SW. In light of X-wings, DV, The Millenium Falcon, R2D2, lightsabers, and other things too numerous to mention... I can overlook a Jar Jar, the premature death of Darth Maul (barely), and almost forgive him for the mistake that was Christian Hayden <sp?>

[Apollyon]

Maybe Senator Organa's wife was Queen Latifah?? :P

[aurochs]

I can watch Ep4-6 in isolation and I prefer to think of them that way. I can't STAND Ep1-3 and their very existence means that, to me, the series is FUBAR. I'm just cynical about the whole thing now.

As to your point on Leia/Amidala, either Leia was talking about Bail Organa's wife (not Amidala) or there's a massive SNAFU right there -- because she couldn't have been talking about Amidala... Leia tells Luke that her mother "seemed very sad" -- so either she has retained memories from the womb or she is not talking about Amidala or GL just plain fucked up the script continuity. Personally, I think the answer is "all of the above".

[aurochs]

As far as SW being FUBAR... There are things I would have done differently if they had asked me to write it. But its so easy to sit back and pick apart someone elses work. Lucas for better or worse created a phenomenon with SW.



^ I'm not inclined to be that generous to Lucas.

Kudos to him for what he created but as far as I'm concerned, he completely sold out and lost touch with what he did in the last three films.

BTW, did anyone catch the quasi-Scientology reference in Ep1 when Qui-gon explains the concept of the Midichlorians to Luke's mom? Man, I nearly puked at that part.

[aurochs]

Lucas for better or worse created a phenomenon with SW. In light of X-wings, DV, The Millenium Falcon, R2D2, lightsabers, and other things too numerous to mention...



^ Personally, I wouldn't give him so much credit.

Most of those things are highly derivative:

Lightsabers (samurai swords), jedi robes (samurai garb), R2D2 (the tv robots going back to the 50s and 60s), the C3PO/R2D2 relationship (Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress), the quest/journey narrative (Hidden Fortress, Joseph Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces), X-wings, Tie-fighters and the Millenium Falcon (WWII fighters and bombers, Tora Tora Tora, Aces High), Midichlorians/The Force (Scientology), The Dark Side vs The Light Side (Zoroastrianism?).

Lucas' true talent was in derivation, adaptation and amalgamation. I don't think he was very original at all.

[Kuroyama]

Aurochs

I give full credit to the core of the ideas from the movie... but to not give Lucas credit for what he accomplished with the whole thing, is to just be bitter.

People of color didnt create golf, yet currently define the best of the game.
The Gemans, Italians, and Japanese didnt invent automobiles, yet they represent some of the best cars the world knows.
Microsoft didnt invent the desktop OS, yet it is the best thing going right now (for the money).

Lucas derived most of his elements from other places... but its what HE did with them that made you love 4-6. 1-3 sucked. Admittedly. Though I liked the lightsaber battles of 3, the whininess that is Hayden has besmirched the image of the terrifying Darth Vader. Even in 1 when Ray Park helped to create a truly frightening Sith Lord, Lucas dropped the ball by killing him off.

But unless were putting out better work... I think we shoulld keep our beefs in perspective.

Heres a thought... Like Terminator? Aliens? IMO (and the Director James Cameron) Cameron was inspired to get off his truck-driving ass and become a director... BY Star Wars.

[aurochs]

Yeah, I'm a Betrayed Star Wars Fan. I'll admit to anyone, anytime. I stll feel a kind of gratitude to Lucas for the great memories and those heady, heady days way back when me and all my friends were entranced by the whole thing.

But I think it's important to put Lucas' work in perspective and recognizing where he drew most of the inspiration for what he did is part of that process. It doesn't necessarily belittle the work and the fact is that the success of the 'franchise' speaks for itself -- especially in terms of merchandising success.

So, while I will give Lucas props for what he did and for the success he achieved, I don't think that he is (or was) a genius. He released a great product but a lot of the credit for the creative spark deservedly goes elsewhere. That's not bitterness talking. That's just me looking back on the whole SW phenom as an educated, experienced adult not a wide-eyed, bedazzled child.

BTW, I think Cameron was inspired to create the Alien series by some kind of microscopic parasite he stumbled on. And the partnership with Giger was a match made in Heaven.

For my taste, Ridley Scott's adaptation of Orson Scott Card's Bladerunner is a more mature and satisfying work.

BTW, did anyone recognize Darth Maul's costume and appearance from a Japanese supervillain from the 1980s -- like from Marvel Comics' Wolverine miniseries from early/mid-1980s? The resemblance is overwhelming: red mask, black robes, horns... master swordfighter, evil incarnate. If I were MC, I woulda sued.

[Dialectic]

As someone said above, I think the Organas were understood as royalty, and so she was a princess as a result of being their daughter.

And hey, did you know that "jedi" was inspired by the Japanese "jidaigeki"? Wiki is omniscient!!!

[aurochs]

^ In the special features section in the DVD release of Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress, George Lucas gives a short interview where he totally expounds on the way he was inspired by Kurosawa's film script to write the SW Trilogy from the POV of the two droids and also base their relationship on the two characters/witnesses (the two peasant guys) in THF. There's also a princess in disguise in THF who needs rescuing (and she's a feisty one, too!). Pretty cool that.

[Lum]

Leia's pedigree is just a minor plot-hole when you consider that Alderaan has both a senator and a princess. What kind of screwy monarchy are they running there? Anyway....

- The Hidden Fortress puts Episode 4 to shame.

- The best thing about Star Wars is the soundtrack by John Williams.

- The only good Star Wars movie is Empire Strikes back (which was not directed by Lucas). That's one for six.

- There are way more watchable Star Trek movies.

- Back in the seventies, people noticed a distinct absence of black people in Star Wars. Then just to appease the mob he puts a token black person in the next movie. Only problem is he sucks, which pisses people off even more. Lucas then has some twenty years to fix his reputation and we end up with two pidgin-speaking "Japanaliens" and Jar-Jar Binks. The entire Star Wars series should be boycotted on the basis of racial-buffoonery.

- Attack of the Clones was such a derivative, ham-fisted and laughable piece of trash that it amazes me that Lucas-apologists still exist.

- Blade Runner was based on Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick, not Orson Scott Card, and yes it is also a vastly superior movie.

- Alien was Ridley Scott, Aliens was James Cameron.

- I know this post sounds snobbish and besides which is way off-topic. Sorry. :lol:

[Apollyon]

I agree. The blatant racism in Star Wars sickened me, as with my other childhood favorite, The Lord of the Rings. When I watched that, I was hoping that the orcs and the dark skinned men would win.

[Dialectic]

Haha, as an aside, Peter Jackson is an interesting case of a director who is probably sensitive to racial issues when it comes to portraying tribes people and fantastical "primitives" but still executes clumsily.

In LOTR, all the Easterlings and Southrons were actually white and made to look vaguely Persian in make-up, when Tolkien clearly indicated they were supposed to be Black. In King Kong, they cast a whole bunch of white people to be natives, painted them dark, and had them act aggressive and primitive, which looked pretty ridiculous (to say nothing of the fact that the Black and Chinese guys blatantly died first!).

POTC (Pirates of the Caribbean) dealt with slaves/ servants in what I thought was a good way by simply showing an idealized version of what was going on at that time in that area, by at least casting Caribbean/ French Blacks, Chinese, and assorted others (my buddy heard Turkish in the second one!) in minor supporting roles. What was sketchy was of course how they portrayed the tribespeople, who were a curious racial mix and spoke, I think, gibberish (though I could be wrong). The worshipping of the dog at the end of the credits was somewhat racist, but overall, out of the three, at least POTC gave one a mild appreciation of the effects of colonialism and the existence of multiculturalism.

[Kuroyama]

Im not conviced that the absence of Blacks was so intentional in SW4. If Im not mistaken Lucas HAD Black people in THX-1138... so its not like he wasnt open to the idea...

Granted there were no Blacks in 4 BUT... remember SW was a project NO ONE believed in! Even ON SET *Which was in England!* The actors including Fisher, Hamilton, and Ford, regularly mocked Lucas. His camera, sound, and other crew guys were equally unsupportive.

If you were a Black actor at the time and had a bit part proposed to you under those circumstances, with low, to no pay as your reward?? Probably not.

And yeah, Lando sucked compared to what passes for a Black protagonist these days, but it WAS what? 1983?? which meant shooting from 1978-1982?

What COOL Black characters were on screen during that time??? Shaft?! Thats not quite the vibe needed for SW...

What else was there?



And as far as ST films... there have been TEN of them!!! of which TWO were passable! ST2 and maybe X which had blatant battle rip offs from 2! - which is what made it watchable

Though Roddenberry was way ahead of his time for multi-racial casting. But then, hell, how many Roddenberry like creators have there been since? Im not saying whites cant be open minded... but I might suggest that those who are might not get that big money support from a Hollywood that is not.

[Scowl]

As someone said above, I think the Organas were understood as royalty, and so she was a princess as a result of being their daughter.

Since we're using wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail_Organa

His Royal Highness, Prince Bail Prestor Organa of Alderaan (69 BBY - 0 ABY) is a fictional character from the Star Wars universe, the Viceroy and Prince of Alderaan, the husband of Queen Breha Organa, and a noted statesman of the late Republic and early Imperial eras. He is Princess Leia Organa's adoptive father and a friend of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

He's got his Alderaan title and his Galactic Senate title. Since his wife is Queen, it would make sense that their daughter would be Princess. I don't know what they fuck they'd call it if they had a son, though.

[aelward]

There are so many plot holes between the first series and the prequels, why limit discussion to titles? Lucas really should have had someone check his scripts (hah, or have someone else write them altogether?) to make sure there was consistency.

There is a webpage somewhere of hilarious Star Wars enigmas, too bad I can't find it. But here are some that I remember:

*In a universe where people have cool names like Quai--Gon and Obi-Wan, where the heck does Amidala come up with the names Luke and Leia??

*If having the higher ground gives you such an advantage in a lightsaber duel, why didn't anyone tell that to Darth Maul?

[Lum]

Haha, some good points there. I forgot about the black guy in THX-1138, and actually the part when he tries to escape in the car is probably the best scene in the movie.

[Dialectic]

If having the higher ground gives you such an advantage in a lightsaber duel, why didn't anyone tell that to Darth Maul?

Oh man, I hated that! But then, I suppose Obi-Won probably told Anakin the story of his utterly miraculous defeat of Maul, which would've acted like a fail-safe in case Anakin went evil on a lava-flow in later life.

Also, not that this is a big deal, but did anyone notice the MASSIVE contradiction Obi-Won spouts during their duel? He goes, "Only a Sith thinks in absolutes!" or something like it, and then like two or three lines later, says, "The Emperor is EVIL!!!"

Fucking moron. No wonder Anakin was so confused!!

[Apollyon]

The Star Wars movies are for kids and always has been. Ever since the first episode its basically been muppets in space with white knights and an evil guy in black. Very simplistic and childish.

[aelward]

The Star Wars movies are for kids and always has been. Ever since the first episode its basically been muppets in space with white knights and an evil guy in black. Very simplistic and childish.

LOL, reminds of a line from Chasing Amy, during the debate about the lack of Black heroes: "And Jedi is the worst installment of the three, where Darth Vader strips away his beautiful black visage to reveal a crusty old white man."

That said, I beg to differ, especially with regards to the prequels.

The first series is very character driven, and yes, tend to look at the world in terms of black and white.

The second series is very story driven. I like it, even though it is poorly executed-- exceptional actors end up stinking the place out in a way that only George Lucas could devise. Even so, to me the story emphasizes shades of grey: that people have good intentions yet end up doing bad things (like slaughtering jedi kiddies in training). At the same time, it tells how a lowly Senator devises a complicated plot to rise to Chancellor and then to Emperor.

Had Lucas hired someone to write the script, gotten a handful of Star Wars geeks to go over it for "factual" conflicts between the first and second series, and gotten someone else to direct, the prequels might have been exceptional (this is to say, had Lucas just financed the thing but kept his fingers out of the pie, it might have turned out so much better).

[Dialectic]

Had Lucas hired someone to write the script, gotten a handful of Star Wars geeks to go over it for "factual" conflicts between the first and second series, and gotten someone else to direct, the prequels might have been exceptional (this is to say, had Lucas just financed the thing but kept his fingers out of the pie, it might have turned out so much better).

I totally agree, as, I think, does most of fandom! The prequels were more complex conceptually, but it was all lost on execution.

I'm looking forward to the Fanboys movie, where a dying dude and his buddies drive to Skywalker ranch so he can watch Episode 1 before he passes away. It'll be bittersweet, but I don't know how they'll avoid the massive sarcastic response it'll prompt ....

[Sothy]

the biggest mistake is probably any attempt to explain the strategy of Yoda/Kenobi POST episode 3.

Alright, Kenobi has seriously wounded Vader and Kenobi is very young at this point in time.

Why wait 20 years to try and finish the job?

Furthermore, given the failure of Yoda to finish the Emperor, and given that Anakin turned to the Dark side, in part, because he was trained later in life, why wait before training Luke (and don't use extended universe theories)?

What, Luke is going to beat both at once (as they assumed that Vader wouldn't turn back)?

Why not train BOTH?

And why only those two? There would have been hundreds of force sentitive babies...they could have gone to the edge of the galaxy or beyond and trained there for 800 years if need be...

really, if Vader hadn't gone sissy at the end of Eps 6, that's it for the Jedi...and the Sith if you don't use extended universe explainations as the Death Star would have been blown up anyway I suppose...

[Kuroyama]

Sothy

Obi-Wan/Vader - Obi Wan did NOT want to kill Vader in Epi3. Even though he knew he SHOULD, the guy was his best friend. When last he saw him, he was cut in half and the upper half was sliding into a sea of molten lava. Oh yeah, and he had burst into flame... Now since when Jedi die the other Jedi feel it... youd think he should have known if he was dead or not...

My guess is that when youre in as much pain as Annakin was... that probably gelts felt through the force as well. So figure its about like your best friend being killed with a chainsaw... and a torch, by your doing. Youd hear the screams...but probably do your best to shut that input out. Even if he deserved the death, youd have a hard time with it and try to shut that out.


On Luke/Leia - They were supposed to be hidden because they were so gifted in the use of the force. If Vader had found and turned just ONE of them, that would have been the end of it. Of course... what with only allowing for TWO Sith at one time... that kind of blows my theory eh?

Still Fanboy fo life here.
Gimme a lightsaber and and X-Wing and Im happy...
Though growing up it was all about Han and the Falcon. Never cared for Luke... even after Jedi he was still a little too fem for me. If youre gonna go Jedi, go Mace.

[Tyger Durden]

...If youre gonna go Jedi, go Mace.

this brings up more questions --

Is there an explanation within the Star Wars universe of why Mace had a "purple" light saber instead of the traditional green and blue of the Jedi?

how was Mace able to hang with the Emperor for so long in his one-on-one battle with him? (In fact, it looked like he was winning that fight before Anakin jumped in.)

[aelward]

From what I heard, Mace had a purple lightsaber because Samuel Jackson wanted it that way :P

[Scowl]

From what I heard, Mace had a purple lightsaber because Samuel Jackson wanted it that way :P

I read an interview with Samuel Jackson, and he said that he wanted a purple lightsaber so that he could use the light to pick off the lint from his robes.

how was Mace able to hang with the Emperor for so long in his one-on-one battle with him?

It's Samuel L. Jackson, and he don't take no sissy roles.

[Kuroyama]

According to SW canon, its simple. Mace kicks ass. He was supposed to be second only to Yoda in fighting skill. And of course the only reason he lost is because his punk ass went out MONOLOGUEING <sp?> (nod to Incredibles)

He was hold the tip of his blade about 3 inches from Palpatines chest. All he had to do was lean forward. Flick his wrist forward. SNEEZE!!! FART!!!! could have done any of that and saved everyone a lot of pain. But instead he sat and DEBATED with a STUDENT THAT DIDNT FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.

So he died.

There IS justice in the galaxy.


BTW, yeah, he just wanted a purple lightsaber. BTW the reason Luke got a GREEN saber in Jedi???

the fight on Jabbas barge? outdoors? against a BLUE SKY? ... they couldnt see the blue lightsaber against blue sky. SO he got a green one!

Answer is always more simple than ya think.

[minbo]

Q) Why is Leia a princess?
A) Not only is she a princess by birth to Queen Amidala, her adopted mother Breha Organa was Queen of Alderaan. Bail Organa was Viceroy. Thus by being considered the child of the Organa family, she is also a princess by adoption.

Q) Why does Leia remember vague memories of her mother in RoTJ?
A) Because Lucas is a numbnuts and didn't do any strict consistancy check on his scripts. While he may have had the entire general plot thought up when he made ANH, he definitely did not have all the sub plots, characters or facts planned out as he often spouts like pap from a baby's mouth.
Padme died in childbirth and Breha Organa lived until the destruction of Alderaan.

Q) How can Alderaan have both Senators and Royalty?
A) Why not? Constitutional royalty. Separation of galactic governance from local planetary governance. Naboo also had Royalty and a Galactic Senator.

Q) How did Amidala come up with the names Luke and Leia?
A) It was the drugs. Childbirth hurts.

Q) If having the higher ground gives you such an advantage in a lightsaber duel, why didn't anyone tell that to Darth Maul?
A) Because Darth grew up pre-3dfx, playing video games that were 2D tile graphics. It was a generation later where 3D graphics cards came out and things such as terrain and elevation came into factor.

Q) Why did Obi-Wan not finish Anakin off?
A) Because if he used the force and struck out in anger, killing a defenseless opponent, then Obi-Wan would have been turned to the darkside and possibly assumed the role as the Sith apprentice.

Q) Why wait before training Luke?
A) Because Owen, the adopted father did not wan't Luke trained.

Q) Did Luke expect to beat the Emperor and Darth at the same time?
A) Doesn't matter. It was Luke thought had to be done. Do or die.

Q) Why not train both Leia and Luke?
A) Because Leia had frequent contact with the Emperor and Darth in the course of her diplomatic duties. Presumably even though they must have sensed that she was force sensitive, if she trained and ever actually used the force in their presence then the shit would have hit the fan. As for after Leia lost her job and was on the run, Obi died before he ever met the adult Leia.

Q) Why did Mace have a purple lightsaber?
A) To console Samuel Jackson because he was not allowed to flash his "bad motherfucker" wallet onscreen.

Q) Why did Mace do so well against the emperor?
A) Anakin, boasting about Obi-Wan was as wise as Yoda and as strong as Mace Windu, implying that Yoda was the wisest of the council and Mace as the strongest. Why boast and say that your master is a strong as a runner up if you are already saying he is as wise as the top dog? Extended universe cannon reduces Mace's strength to be one fo the strongest, but not the strongest.

Q) Why did Mace monologue and seal his fate instead of getting things over with?
A) Because the Jedi way was what Anakin was saying. Mace was really debating himself, not Anakin. If he killed the emperor out of hand, then would that turn him down the path to the darkside and thus possibly the next Sith Lord.

[Tyger Durden]

great assessment of everything ^

makes sense to me. :)

[elliott20]

according to EU material, there were different forms of lightsabre dueling that Jedis could learn.

Supposedly, Mace Windu learned the form known as "Vaapad", which was actually the form that was the most dangerous to practice because the practition now allows the full usage of his passion and emotions into his fighting. It channels the energy that normally would lead to the darkside, and uses it to power his sword fighting, making him an even more potent opponent.

And according to EU material, Mace Windu was one of the few people in the universe who could use this form.

oh yeah, and I just have to post this.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=150

[angi]

wha? am i the only one who thought lando rocked?

[aurochs]

according to EU material, there were different forms of lightsabre dueling that Jedis could learn.

Supposedly, Mace Windu learned the form known as "Vaapad", which was actually the form that was the most dangerous to practice because the practition now allows the full usage of his passion and emotions into his fighting. It channels the energy that normally would lead to the darkside, and uses it to power his sword fighting, making him an even more potent opponent.

And according to EU material, Mace Windu was one of the few people in the universe who could use this form.

oh yeah, and I just have to post this.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=150

That's just the lame backstory they had to make up to explain how come Mace Windu has a purple lightsaber and no one else gets to have one.

The truth is that George wanted Samuel L to play Mace (and wouldn't settle for anyone else) and Sam wouldn't sign on the dotted line unless he got a PURPLE lightsaber. That's all there is to it.

[aurochs]

Q) Why does Leia remember vague memories of her mother in RoTJ?
A) Because Lucas is a numbnuts and didn't do any strict consistancy check on his scripts.



^ Or maybe he just didn't give a shit. I find it hard to believe that everyone in the production team could've missed that plot inconsistency.

I think GL just did an ad hoc re-write on the spot and he said "FUCK plot consistency". Just buy the mutherfucking Action Figures (TM), suckaz.

George Lucas sucks azz (and he's a cocksucker too).

[aurochs]

The Star Wars movies are for kids and always has been. Ever since the first episode its basically been muppets in space with white knights and an evil guy in black. Very simplistic and childish.

The hell you say.

[Dialectic]

The truth is that George wanted Samuel L to play Mace (and wouldn't settle for anyone else) and Sam wouldn't sign on the dotted line unless he got a PURPLE lightsaber. That's all there is to it.

Actually he was already signed on and committed; I think he just asked George one day and used all his Jackson charm, and George said sure.

[Kuroyama]

Are we back on the Leia with memories of Mom thing? Am I the ONLY one here with memories of the hospital after birth? No I dont remember the "debut" but I do have distinct memories of the hospital bed I stayed in. I know not everyones memory goes that far back but its also not that unusual...

All she remembered was "not much" & "sad". Simple understanding is about what Id expect from a baby.


Oh and the purple lightsaber thing is true. Why is Lucas such a "cocksucker" though? aside from the fact that he didnt write the story to everyones satisfaction... I mean, thats a LOT to live up to. And fan though I am I STILL woulda changed lots... but I recognize the achievement.

[minbo]

I have a clear memory of being brought home from the hospital. Upon critical review of the memory, I note inconsistencies. I can explain it off any number of ways to try to maintain that it is a true memory, but in reality I'm certain that my memory (and most "baby" memories that include sight from the period before babies visual cortex are really working properly, eyes have not opened) are really cases of false memory syndrome, albeit benign.

Nothing saying that Leia didn't have it also, but in the end it's shoddy writing. And yes, I do think that the original movies and the universe he developed are great accomplishments for the time they were created. Yes he did adapt some plot lines and characters from other sources, but every creative does that to varying extents, just as science progresses upon the backs of previous generations.

[angi]

The simple reason is that Leia remembered her through the force. Maybe it's a feminine thing. Or maybe Luke made more of a force connection to Obiwan as he held him and didn't make that connection to Padme. It's all a fanwank, but considering the fact that it is reiterated over and over in both the old and prequel triologies that you can see the past and future through the force, it isn't much of a stretch to say that Leia could remember her mother through the force.

[aurochs]

The simple reason is that Leia remembered her through the force. Maybe it's a feminine thing.

^ Ya, I thought so too.

Actually, it's soooo tooootally a New-Age Cali thing, I'm actually quite surprised that more people aren't doing it more and more these days. Memories from within the womb, that is.

[Kuroyama]

Was I the only one uncomfortable with the spatula hands robot??

I kept expecting the baby to flip out of its non-grip and onto the metal table or floor.

I like to find the logic in the design of robots... but Im just not seeing it there.

Then again... who the freak would design an astrodroid with tiny rolling balls for feet... in a galaxy LOADED with stairways!!

[Tyger Durden]

Was I the only one uncomfortable with the spatula hands robot??

I kept expecting the baby to flip out of its non-grip and onto the metal table or floor.

I like to find the logic in the design of robots... but Im just not seeing it there.

Then again... who the freak would design an astrodroid with tiny rolling balls for feet... in a galaxy LOADED with stairways!!

After watching the Cartoon Network (strictly for research purposes... :| ) i'm beginning to wonder if George Lucas borrowed a lot of his Robot ideas from the cartoon The Jetsons.

Seriously. Check out the mode of transportation on this Robot:

http://www.btinternet.com/~reg.joy/images/Robots/Rosie1.gif

[General Grievous]

I thought General Grievous got short changed. He was taken out so quickly even Luke as a budding Jedi could have killed him. And what's with that insane coughing? That was even more stupid.

I adopted his name because I thought he was going to be a bad ass like in the Clone Wars on Cartoon Newtwork.

In the Clone Wars, he was killing Jedis left and right. But in the Sith movie, he didn't kill one sinlge Jedi.

That 's one reason why the movie sucked. He should of had Grievous kill many Jedi as he could.

[Kuroyama]

Grievous only saving grace was that he managed to not be offensive to an entire race of people ala Jar Jar.

Other than that... where was the menace? Where was the fear that the other baddies elicited... except for Count Dooku... but half of his presence was killed off by his ridiculous name!! The another 25% done in by that gaylord lightsaber he carried with the pigtailed handle. I could dig it if they meant to do it up like a Chinese dao... but they didnt change the blade or otherwise make it unique.

Lastly... These guys just lacked IT. When Vader broke onto the screen, the first thing he did was break a guys neck... with one hand.

Of course... that was Vader77.

Vader2006 just screams nooooooooooooo!


I really hope Lucas lets someone else do work under the SW license. Put some DARK into the galaxy! Its supposed to be a dangerous scary place right?? So lets be done with EWOKS and SEE some Wookies pullin arms outta sockets!!!

[Tyger Durden]

I thought General Grievous got short changed. He was taken out so quickly even Luke as a budding Jedi could have killed him...

....That 's one reason why the movie sucked. He should of had Grievous kill many Jedi as he could.

you're right. When Grievous broke out with four light-sabers, it was incredible. There was NO way Obi-Wan should've beaten him...but he had the Force on his side, i guess.

I really hope Lucas lets someone else do work under the SW license. Put some DARK into the galaxy! Its supposed to be a dangerous scary place right?? So lets be done with EWOKS and SEE some Wookies pullin arms outta sockets!!!

Lucas prolly won't let anyone do a SW FILM, but he's let a bunch of writers do whatever they wanted to the SW Universe in paperback books and create the "Extended Universe" and who knows how bad/good they've done to the original concepts.

But who knows? There was a incredible gap of time between the Epsiode 6 and the release of the Prequels, so maybe one day when he gets incredibly bored he'll decide to another set of flicks or just one more flick as a "last hurrah".

I can imagine a SW movie taking place hundreds or even thousand of years BEFORE Episode One, complete with a "Flash Gordon"-type feel and atmosphere. "Old School" Star Wars. Light-saber "jousting" on speeder-bike-type "horses". Castles with force-fields. More Princes and Princesses. "Gandalph the Grey"-type Jedis (okay that was done already with Obi-Wan), but maybe a little Lord of the Rings type feel. I would call it "Episode Zero".

[angi]

There was talk of a tv show between episode 3-4 although I would prefer them doing knights of the old republic.

[Kuroyama]

I tell you what. If Epi Zero was as good as Macross Zero was.... Ill be sure to PASS ON IT!

Like an idiot, Macross Zero came out the same time as Ghost in The Shell Stand Alone Complex... I only had enough flow to collect ONE series. I went with retarded Macross because I figured it HAD to be the bomb.

It had some good scenes... but in the end... even my WIFE was like: "WHY did you choose THIS over Ghost In The Shell?" Shes not the biggest anime fan...Miyazaki stuff maybe, but robots and boom? no. When shes slamming one robot choice for another... you know you f-ed up.

[Tyger Durden]

It had some good scenes... but in the end... even my WIFE was like: "WHY did you choose THIS over Ghost In The Shell?" Shes not the biggest anime fan...Miyazaki stuff maybe, but robots and boom? no. When shes slamming one robot choice for another... you know you f-ed up.

LOL! great story!

slightly off-topic, but this stands out from the beginning of "Ghost in the Shell: SAC" (it's not a spoiler, don't worry):

It is a time when, even if nets were to guide all consciousness that had been converted to photons and electrons toward coalescing, standalone individuals have not yet been converted into data to the extent that they can form unique components of a larger complex.

To me, it's kinda philosophical, political and maybe religious in a way.

*shrugs*

BTW: I think "Macross Plus" inspired the film "Stealth"...if i'm remembering the correct Robotech movie, that is.

[Tyger Durden]

There was talk of a tv show between episode 3-4 although I would prefer them doing knights of the old republic.

you know what? i did hear of those same rumours, but...nothing solid.

thanks for reminding me. :)

[nskripchun]

I think Lucas should let a Japanese company make an Star Wars anime depicting Timothy Zahn's books... anime Admiral Thrawn would be boss!

[angi]

The new Star Wars will take place in a galaxy far, far, away in a city called neokittytokyo where a failed genome project produces


darth kitty!

http://manolomen.com/images/Darth%20Vader%20in%20pink.jpg

[Tyger Durden]

I'm still laughing ^ :D

try to stay away, but i end up...

[xian]

I'd agree with the earlier poster who said that the Empire Striking movie was the best one.

Luke has got to be one of the worst cast characters of all time, followed only by his white father. Ironically, I did have a moment during Episode Three where I thought, "Wait this guy really is as irritating as Mark Hamill, maybe they ARE related".

Here are my ratings:
Star Wars: 2 and a half stars
Empire Strikes Back and Mark Hamill's hand is Chopped Off: 4 or 4.5 out of 5
Star Wars Muppet Adventure: 1.5
Whiny Kid Races Bumper Cars while People Do Racist Impressions: -3 stars and one of the worst films in the history of mankind
Star Wars Irritating Light Sabre Strategy Playbook and The Rise of Emperor Bush: 1 star

Attack of the Clones! (No really, that's the actual name): I would rather eat my own head than be subjected to another film in this series.


But I suppose I could forgive Lucas since he is so gifted at writing love stories.