Yee and the Governator

[Kuroyama]

When I voted for Arnie, I really thought he was going to make better use of the states time. And the Yee guy!!! What, is he trying to get into Tipper Gore's pants or something? This is only ONE OF MANY such bills he has championed?

Whatever happened to "parenting"? What, so we just legislate the whole damned affair now?

Living in Japan has in some regards shown me the beauty of living in the states... but its items like THIS that REMIND me why it was so easy to cut ties and just MOVE here. You just dont see time wasting legislation here like that.

I too, agree that small kids shouldnt be playing horrific spine breaking entrail spilling carnage on thier next-gen systems... But Im just not cool on legislating the whole thing. Freakin watch your kids.


http://psp.ign.com/articles/656/656999p1.html

Calif. Violent Game Bill Becomes Law
The Terminator himself says: violence ain't for kids.
by David Adams

October 7, 2005 - After a long process of campaigning, opposition, and legislative approval, a California bill which bans the sale of violent videogames to minors has been signed into law. On Friday, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger approved the bill, which levies fines of up to $1000 for violations, and requires that mature games be clearly labeled as such.

"Today I signed legislation to ensure parent involvement in determining which video games are appropriate for their children," said Governor Schwarzenegger. "The bill I signed will require that violent video games be clearly labeled and not be sold to children under 18 years old. Many of these games are made for adults and choosing games that are appropriate for kids should be a decision made by their parents."

Assembly Bill 1179 was written and championed by Assemblyman Leland Yee, who has offered similar bills for several years now. Yee has maintained his interest is not in censoring or limiting the game industry, but in keeping minors from playing mature-themed games without parental consent.

Yee believes the interactive nature of videogames creates a unique danger. "Unlike movies where you passively watch violence, in a video game, you are the active participant and making decisions on who to stab, maim, burn or kill," he said. "As a result, these games serve as learning tools that have a dramatic impact on our children."

Opponents of the legislation, including the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association (IEMA), an industry interest group, argue that the current ESRB rating system already identifies mature content in games and prevents sale of such games to minors. Opponents also maintain legislation like AB 1179 introduces regulates game media in ways that books, movies, and music are not, and see such laws as a challenge to First Amendment rights.

California is not only the nation's most populous state, but the primary home of the $31 billion videogame industry. AB 1179 will officially become law on January 1, 2006.

[Infectious]

Never mind that Arnie probably got some of his millions off of teenage kids watching his violence-laden movies.

Never mind that video games are usually scapegoated in lieu of other causes (why not target the "sports god syndrome" culture which exacerbates ostracism, for example).

Arnie probably won't be running another term though, that's why he's pushing all of these issues.

[Kuroyama]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-games23dec23,0,1099077.story?coll=la-story-footer&track=morenews

Federal court struck down the law. I cannot believe our government found the ability to recognize horseshit and call it for what it was! Now if we could just get them to reevaluate the Bush administration... The war in Iraq... Medical insurance...

[nskripchun]

video games is a scapegoat for bad parents.

people ought to be licensed before they have kids. too many irresponsible people think "parenting" is putting your kid in front of a TV for 8 hours a day with a remote and a controller in their hands.

i'm glad the bill died.

[ZhuBaJie]

they're not trying to ban video games. i actually think this is a good idea because:

1) regardless of how "violent" video games affect kids, they probably shouldn't be playing games that are violent. but their parents can decide what their kids can play. it's the same concept as that kids shouldn't be watching R-rated movies without parents' permission.

2) i think this would actually give game makers more leeway to make more graphic games, because the responsibility has been shifted more to the game retail stores and parents for what kids would be playing. stupid asswipes will have less justification for blaming the game makers if some dumbass kid has violent urges and they found him playing a "violent" video game. because hey, either some game store illegally sold it to him or his parents let him play the game. there are more people for them to point their fingers.

3) these "mature" labels on the games actually help the games sell. just like when they started putting "explicit lyrics" labels on certain tapes and CDs, it helped them sell more copies.

[Kuroyama]

Zhu

I think parents should step up and take responsibility for what their kids do. American society is all too quick to play pass-the-buck. "It's not MY fault!" should be a constitutional amendment.

Trying to legislate videogames is IMO a monumental waste of time.

After that Columbine tragedy everyone and their mother was trying to blame it on violent video games. I heard almost NO ONE ask HOW the kids managed to stockpile an arsenal like that without the parents knowing about it. Instead everyone says how foul games must be.

I understand that America is a nation of litigation... which is bad enough... but to make it to the point of legislation... just makes me nauseus. If its to the point where they have to get help from their congressman to keep an eye on their kid... maybe they SHOULDVE used condoms in the first place. Oh... thats right... they didnt know HOW to use condoms because its EVIL and SINFUL to teach that sort of thing in PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

EDUCATION never fixes anything... its just easier to lay blame! ...almost as easy as it was to LAY DOWN with no birth control...

I agree with you that the Tipper Gore move (parental warning labels) may help to sell more video games... but I think its a slippery slope when you start legislating digital entertainment.

Do I think its OK for a 6 year old to play games depicting dismemberment and disembowelment? No I dont. But I think the GREATER crime would be that a 6 year old child be left unsupervised long enough to trundle through a game like that in the first place.

How does material like that get from a brick and mortar retailer into the home? It gets there when parents dont pay attention to what their children do.

Heres a hint:

"The Suffering: The Ties that Bind"
is NOT the same as
"Mario Kart DS".

IMO if the parental warning sticker wasnt enough to tell you that... it shouldnt be on the RETAILER to wake you out of your Prozac or Lithium induced coma.

[howstrange]

Everything in this culture contributes to it's violent tendencies, including video games. I'm all for a law that enforces the rating systems, and this is coming from a person that works in the vid game industry. lol. You're correct that too many people scapegoat, including those who make these violent games. Games such as doom or quake may not have caused those columbine kids to commit their murders, but those games sure did desensitize them to the violent act of rampaging through the hallways and blowing away peoples heads.

[Kuroyama]

HS

I dont buy that "desensitizing" argument. Playing helicoptor flight simulators may have trained me to fly a helicopter without too much difficulty my first time... but a lot has to be said for me also having READ about the subject and UNDERSTANDING the idea behind lift from the rotor, its relation to the cyclic and anti-torque rotor and pedals...

EVEN SO... having all that understanding STILL didnt prepare me for the feelings I had when I first flew. I was nervous and sweaty.

All those years of harboring playboys and penthouse under your bed as pre-teens does NOT prepare you for the act of sex when it first arrives.

Do you think that all the Japanese anime depicting rape of women desensitizes the Japanese to the act of rape?

Im sorry, I dont buy that.

If you want to label the games... Im against it, but its a mistake thats already been made and we cannot unring that bell. But holding retailers accountable using the Orwellian Sales Police... Im not digging that at all.

[howstrange]

I dont buy that "desensitizing" argument. Playing helicoptor flight simulators may have trained me to fly a helicopter without too much difficulty my first time... but a lot has to be said for me also having READ about the subject and UNDERSTANDING the idea behind lift from the rotor, its relation to the cyclic and anti-torque rotor and pedals...

EVEN SO... having all that understanding STILL didnít prepare me for the feelings I had when I first flew. I was nervous and sweaty.



You're not making a straight analogy. I'm sure those columbine kids felt some nervousness and sweat when they first began their rampage. What desensitizing allowed them to do was plan their act and pull the first shot without repulsion towards the act itself ñ the blood and screams of death, the violence involved.

But hey, everybody is different. The media may not affect you but I for one, after all these years of video games, movies, news, war documentaries, etc.. have become desensitized to violence. I admit it. What use to gross me out and disturb me as a youngster no longer does. I can watch a vietcongs head being blown off while enjoying a bowl of fruitloops. Flip the channel and eat dessert to a doctor chiseling away at a joint during an open hip surgery. It's conditioning and knowing you're being condition is the first step to awareness.

By the way, most people who make games are pro ratings systems. Many of them are parents themselves, they know what they make and why, they aint idiots.

Do you think that all the Japanese anime depicting rape of women desensitizes the Japanese to the act of rape?

Of course, I would think having rape in anime itself is evidence of Japans desensitization towards the act of rape.

[Kuroyama]

HS

Do you believe that somehow the media has altered your sensibilities over the years? Jading you to scenes of horror?

Do you not make room for the possibility that your reactions could be altered simply because you are OLDER and more MATURE now?

Some children are frightened by Santa Claus and/or the Easter Bunny. I wouldnt expect them to carry those same fears through adolescence. Nor would I expect watching the "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" to play a factor in steeling their nerves against something that repulses them, or brings them fear as children. CERTAINLY not playing "Half Life", or "Quake".

I wouldnt expect a child to be allowed into the theater to WATCH TCM, but I wouldnt expect there to be a LAW to be enforced by police that certainly have better things to do with their time. I would EXPECT the PARENTS to step up and tell Little Timmy that he cant see that movie just yet.

I expect video games to be no different.
Perhaps thats the flaw in my argument; the expectation that people will take personal responsiblity.

" By the way, most people who make games are pro ratings systems. Many of them are parents themselves, they know what they make and why, they aint idiots"

- you lost me there.

[ZhuBaJie]

Trying to legislate videogames is IMO a monumental waste of time.

well, firstly, don't get me wrong. no way do i think violent video games make kids violent. sure, some violent kids have been found to play violent video games. but that's what good parenting is for, it's to make sure kids grow up not to become criminals and killers. and none of these anti violent games people ever try to explain how millions of kids manage to play those games without ever becoming violent.

the only reason i agree with legislation is not because i think violent games make kids violent, it's because i think kids should have limitted access to violent video games just like they have limitted access to violent movies and TV shows.

i don't think it's a bad thing to legislate video games in such a way as to help parents. not every parent is able to monitor their children 24-7. it's just unrealistic, and even more so for lower-income families.

[Kuroyama]

Zhu

I agree 100% that being with the child 24/7 is unrealistic.
Its how you spend the time you HAVE with your child that determines what the child will do when you are not there.

IMO not parenting responsibly, then trying to pass off the responsibility to legislation and law enforcement... Isnt a great course of action.

[ZhuBaJie]

Zhu

I agree 100% that being with the child 24/7 is unrealistic.
Its how you spend the time you HAVE with your child that determines what the child will do when you are not there.

IMO not parenting responsibly, then trying to pass off the responsibility to legislation and law enforcement... Isnt a great course of action.

how about pornography? should there be no legislature to limit access to porn by minors?

maybe porn is too extreme a case - however, i can see many video games eventually become pornographic. many gamers are adults now.

then how about R-rated movies?

i guess i don't see this as passing off of parenting responsibility, but more as a way to help parents. i mean, personally, i could have the most well-adjusted children in the world, that still doesn't mean i'd let them watch movies with a lot of sex and brutal violence. and given that i can't be watching them 24-7, it would be nice if the government puts in some regulation to help me out.

[howstrange]

i think this study pretty much along the lines of what i was getting at.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2-1976339%2C00.html

......A study of the effects of popular games such as Doom, Mortal Kombat and Grand Theft Auto, which involve brutal killings, high-powered weaponry and street crime, indicates that avid users become desensitised to shocking acts of aggression. Psychologists found that this brain alteration, in turn, appeared to prime regular users of such games to act more violently.



Many studies have concluded that people who play violent games are more aggressive, more likely to commit violent crimes, and less likely to help others. But critics argue that these correlations prove only that violent people gravitate towards violent games, not that games can change behaviour.

However, the new research, carried out by scientists at the University of Missouri-Columbia, goes some way towards demonstrating a causal link between computer games and violence, rather than a simple association. When shown images of real-life violence, people who played violent video games were found to have a diminished brain response. However, the same group had more natural reactions to other emotionally disturbing images, such as those of dead animals or ill children.

The researchers, led by Bruce Bartholow, a psychologist at Missouri-Columbia, found that the particular reduction in response associated with violence was correlated with aggressive behaviour....

[NoName]

During the winter break I worked at video game store. There was a mother with her 14 year old son; the son wanted the video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. I told the mother that the game is rated M, for mature, and that is has violence, drugs, sex, and profanity; I even pointed out the rating and contents on the box. After telling and showing her this, she still bought the game for her son. :shock:

[howstrange]

^

sad. I'm wondering if you ever had the opposite experience. For example, a parent asking about a games rating, or seeing a parent refuse to get their kid an M rated game. Just curious

[KeJia Sista]

As one of the few parents here, and someone who tries to adhere to other cultural values outside of this domcult; I wish they would have passed that bill. I don't see anything beneficial to be gained by kids sitting for hours in front of games that make murder, violence, theft and sexism entertaining. Something to compete in.

Yeah, yeah, everyone is going to say "but I'm not affected, therefore, it must not be affecting anyone" but if repetitive commercials didnt affect anyone, people wouldn't be eating KFC, drinking BudLite, or thinking designer brands were any better than other clothing. If what we see over and over wasn't proven to influence a very large percentage of us; corporations wouldn't spend millions of dollars for ads at halftime.

Yes, in an ideal world perfect parents would not buy or allow their children to play these games. Unfortunately we live in a country where most parents work, where a very large percentage of children are in single parent homes; where children of the working poor and many immigrants fend for themselves; latchkey kids whose parents don't know or care what they are watching or playing at home; they are just grateful that their kids stay home and off the streets while they're at work. Other parents themselves have become so desensitized that they don't have the ability to distinguish inappropriate games.

Everytime I hear "it's the parent's responsibility" I wonder how people are missing the fact that there are a lot of parents with "issues" who are unable to make the best choices. parents with major problems: drug addiction, alcoholism, overworked, non-English speakers, English speakers but illiterate, all kinds of problems that keep them from being able to, singlehandedly...prevent their children from constant exposure to violence and porn. The proverb Hillary stole from the Africans, "it takes a village to raise a child" really is true. We all contribute to the world children grow up in, what becomes the norm, we all influence their values; its not something that gets shunted off to parents alone.

KeJia

[KeJia Sista]

video games is a scapegoat for bad parents.

people ought to be licensed before they have kids. too many irresponsible people think "parenting" is putting your kid in front of a TV for 8 hours a day with a remote and a controller in their hands.

i'm glad the bill died.

How about liscensing people before they have sex?
Ke Jia

[KeJia Sista]

During the winter break I worked at video game store. There was a mother with her 14 year old son; the son wanted the video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. I told the mother that the game is rated M, for mature, and that is has violence, drugs, sex, and profanity; I even pointed out the rating and contents on the box. After telling and showing her this, she still bought the game for her son. :shock:

I'm not surprised. There are a lot of parents out there who seem to be intimidated by their own teens. I saw a White woman with a young kid, maybe 12 years old and he was clamoring for a game that she didnt want to buy. He went into a tantrum, "Thats why I fucking hate you! You bitch! I want THAT one." She got it, too.

KeJia

[NoName]

^
sad. I'm wondering if you ever had the opposite experience. For example, a parent asking about a games rating, or seeing a parent refuse to get their kid an M rated game. Just curious

While I was working there I never had an opposite experience. Parents never refuse to get their kid an M rated game and don't even ask about the game rating. There is a huge sign that shows the rating of games in front of the entrance. Usually I ask questions to get a better idea on what product to sell. This is what happened to me one time with a female customer; I'll call her FC for short:

Me: Welcome to (name of video game store).
FC: Yes, I'm looking for a game for my son.
Me: Ok.
FC: Do you have any good football games for the PlayStation 2?
Me: Yes.
FC: Oh, this looks good. (she holds the game "Blitz the League')

For those of you who don't know the game "Blitz the League" it is a violent football game where the player can use drugs on field, say profanity, and call prostitutes to the hotel room.

Me: Excuse me, but you do know that this game is rated M for mature. If you don't mind me askng, how old is your son?
FC: I guess he is 12 years old.
Me: Ok. (how does a parent not even know her child's age)
Me: I think he may be interested in Madden 2006 (rated E for everyone).
FC: No, it's ok I will get him this instead (buys "Blitz the League").

This occurs every time during my working shift.

[howstrange]

damn, that's messed up. Thanks for sharing though.

[nskripchun]

^^that's horrible... but it is a good illustration of a couple aspects of the problem.

Parents need to own up to their responsibility of being PARENTS and not do dumb ass things like that.