Replies to On Racial Identity

[Dialectic]

http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=4228

[KeJia Sista]

I think I wrote this in another thread; but what happens when it gets down to a quarter? Is there a cut off mark? In certain Native tribes and among Hawaiians there is; though its been imposed by Whites.

And, looks seem to play a definative role; but should they?

The "one drop" law was established for Blacks; should other races be able to make the same claim?

Ke Jia

[Dialectic]

Looks certainly play a significant role, regardless of "should": if you grow up looking white, are treated by others as white on first contact and possibly beyond, then you certainly are not going to have any sort of "typical visible minority experience." If your English is good and you've grown up here with parents who are also acclimated to being here, then you may not have any sort of minority experience at all, unless you possibly choose to have one: hang out with other minorities, be an advocate, etc. And visible minorities don't have a choice.

With regard to genetics, hapas, and fractions, we can't make any general statements on a social level. Whether an individual is of a coloured race or not depends on individual circumstances in the four quadrants: genetics/looks, thoughts/ feelings, culture, and systems. On a legal level, I agree there should probably be some cut-off point for a minority definition: again, if you're pretty much white and you have some native in you from ten generations back, you probably shouldn't be tax-exempt.

And look at guys like Dean Cain and Keanu Reeves. Are they honestly Asian in any significant way? No. They don't look it, sound it, act it, or live it.

[Big Bill]

I would like to know what laws Chima uses to define who is Chinese, particularly the amount necessary to become a . I know the Jews use the Numremberg laws (or one quite similar) in deciding who gets to be a citizen of Israel. What race rule does the Chinese government use?

I know they keep all whites and every other colored races from moving to and becoming citizens of China based on a blood quantum, I believe, I'm just not sure what it is.

(Please don't get me wrong, I admire Chinese race pride and race loyalty. In many ways it is as strong as Jewish race pride and race loyalty, and is something to admire as a way of keeping one's people and nation pure.

In Israel, many employment agencies that hire overseas races to work in Israel make them contractually agree not to have sex with Jews while working in the country. Does China have similar laws? Dubai which has something like five foreigners to every Dubaian citizen definitely does.

The Indian tribes with money (i.e. the "casino" tribes) have been taking a very strict racial line, including using DNA fingerprinting to prevent poorer Indians and whites from getting in and sharing the loot. The test is strictly blood quantum, although the amount tribe-to-tribe may vary.

[Taliesin Stormheller]

I know they keep all whites and every other colored races from moving to and becoming citizens of China based on a blood quantum, I believe, I'm just not sure what it is.
What the hell? Only the Native Americans have a whole fucking blood quantum thing.
No they don't, you just need to get naturalized and you can't have a dual citizenship. China is not RACIST like that, where the fuck did you hear that? I know Russians and Indians who immigrated to China, got naturalized, and VOTE there.
To become a Chinese citizen you either have to be born there, (old rule), marry a citizen or get naturalized (since 2000 I think). It doesn't fucking matter where your parents are from. In China, we have Black-Chinese and Russian-Chinese and Filipino-Chinese who are considered culturally Chinese, speak Chinese without an accent, vote, and generally acculturate/ assimilate into the general population. Hell, there's a part of Beijing where tons of Indians and Pakistanis live.

[sab]

For me it isn't nec. how someone looks but the culture/language/people that they grew up with. There is of course their ancestrial backgrounds that plays a part in it but really it is the thought process that they go through. I know many people that live here (Philippines) that have chinese, african, white american, and many other backgrounds and very much look the part. However at the end of the day their native language is tagalog, they eat filipino food, and more importantly think filipino. They are Filipino.

[Dialectic]

Chances are if you sound, eat, and act, and here's the important bit, people treat you like you are, then you are. Of course that's why looks play an important part; if you don't look like it, and you grow up with people treating you differently, then you are different. Every action has internal and external effects.

[Dirac]

^^ Agreed. If you are accepted by the majority then you never have to think about 'who you are' in racial terms.

[Dialectic]

Exactly. Because then you're just a "person," and you are mystified about why other people can't be "just people," too. Race, as I say in the original thread, is a complex affair with connections to everything: genetics, looks, thoughts, feelings, economics, politics, culture, language. The only way to approach it intelligently is to acknowledge its complexity.

[ZhuBaJie]

I know they keep all whites and every other colored races from moving to and becoming citizens of China based on a blood quantum, I believe, I'm just not sure what it is.
What the hell? Only the Native Americans have a whole fucking blood quantum thing.
No they don't, you just need to get naturalized and you can't have a dual citizenship. China is not RACIST like that, where the fuck did you hear that? I know Russians and Indians who immigrated to China, got naturalized, and VOTE there.
To become a Chinese citizen you either have to be born there, (old rule), marry a citizen or get naturalized (since 2000 I think). It doesn't fucking matter where your parents are from. In China, we have Black-Chinese and Russian-Chinese and Filipino-Chinese who are considered culturally Chinese, speak Chinese without an accent, vote, and generally acculturate/ assimilate into the general population. Hell, there's a part of Beijing where tons of Indians and Pakistanis live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_nationality_law

supposedly it's possible to naturalise as a Chinese citizen, but i've never heard of this happening. most probably because not many people actually want to do this.

back in 1997, western media was reporting on how China was only giving Chinese citizenship to HKers who are ethnically Chinese, and this essentially left the Indians and Pakistanies there as stateless persons. the reporting was a little ridiculous because of the simple fact that none of them wanted Chinese citizenship. most, if not all, wanted either UK or Indian citizenship.

[sab]

Chances are if you sound, eat, and act, and here's the important bit, people treat you like you are, then you are. Of course that's why looks play an important part; if you don't look like it, and you grow up with people treating you differently, then you are different. Every action has internal and external effects.

I agree, looks often times shape the way they will become. No matter what cultural upbringing they grow up in. I think back to my days growing up in Montana and remember my brother and sisters friends that I used to babysit. They are ethnic Korean twins that were adopted by a family that was unable to have their own children. Now they grew up in a white household in a very, very white part of the states. The bottom line is they were treated differently by people, even people that tried to not treat them this way (they were thinking it though, and in trying so hard to kill that part of their thinking they treated the children different). Due to this both of this children grew up into adults with a certain different outlook on life.

We are a society of 'what you see is what you get'. In an isolated sometimes ignorant part of the world like eastern montana the only that people base their lives on are the things they are taught based upon stereotypes that have been handed down for generations. The stereotypes that go with these looks are what people often get. If you look like a jock well then you are treated as if you are the cream of the crop. If you look like a nerd you will get all the fun and not so fun benefits of that. If you look like a Native American well there are a lot of things that go with that which would be a whole topic in itself. If you look Asian in eastern montana you are treated like someone that eats rice, is good at math, and probably had something to do with Pearl Harbour. So at the end of the day, in this area, it isn't about what you eat and how you talk. It is about how you look.

Actually in that way I am finding the Philippines very intersting because it happens here also. However it is very based around the financial system. The whiter someone's skin is the more money that they will have, whether they have it or not. Chinoys always are put on the top of the social structure, the mixed people with caucasion blood are also fairly high, and going to the bottom are the people that look the most native filipino. Overall though I find it much more open than the states.

[Dialectic]

Thanks for sharing this, sab.

Yes, other members of the forum have emphasized the importance of skin tone in the Philippines, where if a baby is born with light skin at birth they may receive more warmth and affection.

This sort of thinking and behavior will never go away; it will always be around in one form or another, as all human beings go through an ethnocentric phase of development on their way to hopefully higher and more compassionate structures. The key, then, is to create a culture and a legal, economic, and political structure which encourages as much moral growth as possible, so that the "average expected level of development" in a country or culture is at least rational, pluralistic, and appreciative of diversity.