immediate help needed

[Taliesin Stormheller]

I keep getting threats from WM in my school that they are going to kick my ass after school. Note that these WM are not racist or sexist, they have AM friends. (BTW, AM don't respect me either, no Asian guy (hell, no guy) has ever asked me out in skool.) Most of my friends are AF and BF.) It's because they're so thin, tall and 'ghetto fabulous' and that they represent all that is superior about Man and I represent the antithesis of that. Note also that guys usually do not beat up girls. This is because I am butt ugly, I just know it. Pretty girls get respected so much more. I always get shit like 'you are such an ugly disgusting pig' and 'go back to your shit hole' and 'you live in a dumpster' and I overheard 'man, you know who's ugly? margaret cho and sandra oh. and you know who looks even chinkier than them, tali' etc. What should I do? I do not want to be a snitch ass. I also keep getting my stuff stolen and I think that it is WM who are responsible. Note that I am very short, wear large glasses, and am fat/dumpy, have lots of acne and am ugly according to society's views. I am also extremely loud and outspoken. Not very respectable or threatening looking.

[Bizarre_Female]

I would try my best to avoid them any way that I can. Make sure that your'e always with someone..that way, if anything happens you will have a witness.

[inferno]

I keep getting threats from WM in my school that they are going to kick my ass after school. Note that these WM are not racist or sexist, they have AM friends. (BTW, AM don't respect me either, no Asian guy (hell, no guy) has ever asked me out in skool.) Most of my friends are AF and BF.) It's because they're so thin, tall and 'ghetto fabulous' and that they represent all that is superior about Man and I represent the antithesis of that. Note also that guys usually do not beat up girls. This is because I am butt ugly, I just know it. Pretty girls get respected so much more. I always get shit like 'you are such an ugly disgusting pig' and 'go back to your shit hole' and 'you live in a dumpster' and I overheard 'man, you know who's ugly? margaret cho and sandra oh. and you know who looks even chinkier than them, tali' etc. What should I do? I do not want to be a snitch ass. I also keep getting my stuff stolen and I think that it is WM who are responsible. Note that I am very short, wear large glasses, and am fat/dumpy, have lots of acne and am ugly according to society's views. I am also extremely loud and outspoken. Not very respectable or threatening looking.
Hmmm .... personally I think that you are an attention whore who has mental issues, based on your postings. You are always screaming for attention by claiming that you are unattractive, whilst being fully aware that certain forum members will tell you that you they have seen your pic and are not ugly at all from what they have seen.

[ellencho]

In terms of immediate help from us what is it exactly that you want? We don't know the names of these WM, we don't know your full name and addy, we don't know what school you go to and what police district you live in so it's not like we could report this to any authorities. If you want our help, it would help if there were specifics. Do your parents know about this? Maybe they should be involved in this. Would you feel better if your principal to be aware of this problem? Do you want the cops to know that these guys are harrassing you?

[vsoy]

Do you have documentation of these WM threatening you bodily harm in the form of a note, email, tape recording, pic of damage to personal belongings? If so, I would file a report with your school counselor/authority in charge of handling these threats. Schools take these threats more seriously these days. Otherwise, it's a case of he said/she said and from the inconsistencies in your case, you might end up with more problems than what you started with if you are wrong about WM stealing your stuff.

I agree with you, boy bullies don't beat up on girls, but they do prey on people who are insecure and lack self confidence because they're easy targets. Someone who doesn't care what other people think will do their own thing and will stand up to bullies. Generally, bullies recognize that and won't even try it and back down.

For someone who has defined opinions and doesn't care about the opinion of the white majority, I don't understand why you're swallowing all this crap from these stupid WM and people who bring you down. Apparently, they are distorting your self image. Please get some counseling, there is no shame in talking to someone about your problems.

[Justin]

I keep getting threats from WM in my school that they are going to kick my ass after school. Note that these WM are not racist or sexist, they have AM friends. (BTW, AM don't respect me either, no Asian guy (hell, no guy) has ever asked me out in skool.) Most of my friends are AF and BF.) It's because they're so thin, tall and 'ghetto fabulous' and that they represent all that is superior about Man and I represent the antithesis of that. Note also that guys usually do not beat up girls. This is because I am butt ugly, I just know it. Pretty girls get respected so much more. I always get shit like 'you are such an ugly disgusting pig' and 'go back to your shit hole' and 'you live in a dumpster' and I overheard 'man, you know who's ugly? margaret cho and sandra oh. and you know who looks even chinkier than them, tali' etc. What should I do? I do not want to be a snitch ass. I also keep getting my stuff stolen and I think that it is WM who are responsible. Note that I am very short, wear large glasses, and am fat/dumpy, have lots of acne and am ugly according to society's views. I am also extremely loud and outspoken. Not very respectable or threatening looking.
Hmmm .... personally I think that you are an attention whore who has mental issues, based on your postings. You are always screaming for attention by claiming that you are unattractive, whilst being fully aware that certain forum members will tell you that you they have seen your pic and are not ugly at all from what they have seen.

She does mention it a lot....sometimes outta the blue..

[xian]

Well, it's natural for people to mention their insecurities, especially around people they trust. It's not like she's the only person with insecurities on this site.

After all, how terribly insecure would you have to be to take this opportunity to attack someone for being insecure when they are describing a very real situation that is common in schools whether it is for her or not? Are you here to grow and learn with other Asian Americans or just to attack others to boost your fragile ego?

TS, I think the advice of moving in groups as much as possible is a good idea.

I agree also that you need documentation--bring a tape or an MD player hidden (so it won't be stolen) and capture them saying something along these lines. Also, begin marking your property and take pictures before the fact, so you can catch them later if they steal anything.

Also, very importantly, find a confederate on the staff. Make it very clear that you don't expect them to do anything on hearsay, but that you want someone to be aware what is going on so that when you do have evidence, it's not out of the blue. If they tell YOU to seek conseling, but show no empathy for your situation, contact an outside agency to advocate on your behalf. If this is the treatment you are receiving from the administration, ask them if you can tape your conversations with them.

Finally, I have some advice for everyone else. It is a societal problem that causes people to blame the bullied. Sometimes there are reasons that people are bullied, sometimes there aren't. Either way, the bullies are not doing it for justifiable reasons. So why do people always focus on the bullied's behavior? If you find yourself doing this, you better check yourself. You are nearly as much of the problem for creating an environment that rewards bullying as the bullies themselves.

[poisenedrice]

^No offense xian, but quit insisting this site is a life changing catalyst to help people learn and grow. That's great if you've been learning and growing, but from what I've seen, the vast majority of the people here are just here to pass the time. And based on the people who've been banned or left, coming to this site has only helped them to dig deeper into their pathologies.

I agree with inferno to an extent. Unless anyone here has actually met Tales in real life to provide some frame of reference on her real persona, she starts threads like this on an almost weekly basis. First at ModelMinority, and now here. Everytime it is the same result: people offer advice, she gives her thanks and that's that; the following week another thread gets started about the same/similar problem, followed by more advice followed by another thread of bullying week after week.

$10 says all this advice is just going to get ignored to be followed the next week with a similar thread.

Again, if she's telling the truth, all the advice and encouragement on this board doesn't amount to jack shit until she becomes proactive in taking steps to resolve her problems.

If however, she's lied this whole time, she's just another in a long line of fucked up crazies from Model Minority. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[xian]

Yeah, cause it so unbelievable that in this society people's sexuality and self-image might be fucked up by social conditioning and conceptions of attractiveness.

What if somewhere there was a group of people who felt utterly emasculated by the society's bullshit racist conceptions of masculinity? What if they posted incessantly about it on an internet forum for Asian American issues?

Boy that would totally justify insecure assholes telling them to "get over it" and "grow up".

[eskimo]

Tali, I wonder if there might be at least a grain of truth in the critical posts you elicited, despite their not-so-fluffy packaging.

This forum offers access to some great people with great minds and experiences who can help you (or anyone else) with various types of issues, but development really only occurs if the one receiving the advice applies it to their particular situation to effect real results. Otherwise, the advice you receive just gets stored somewhere on your hard drive or, worse, gets erased when that episode passes from memory.

Someone some time ago (either blockthebox or JadeDragon, I think) referred to visiting this site as satisfying a daily crack fix, something I more than chuckled at. But it's a good characterization if a particular member does nothing but get their daily esteem boost and returns to their respective world and not do anything to change their lives for the better.

You're in control and it's definitely up to you as to how you apply the advice, encouragement, and support you receive from others. But remember that crack dealers get something in return for the bags of goodness they pass out and if that something runs out, so will the goodness -- even they won't hand out free bags to those who approach them claiming to be a victim of the system.

How's your perfumery business doing, by the way? I think you've got the beginnings of a great venture. You just need to promote it more aggressively and get the word out. I'm sure there are more than a few members here and in your community who would love to hear about your experiences and may be in a position to offer concrete advice on eCommerce/IT, marketing, or other related matters. Why not give them that opportunity?

[Taliesin Stormheller]

I would like to give a great big
FUCK YOU to Inferno and other sellout whitewashed cocksuckers on this board. The truth is, I have had many problems with WM in the past and in the present. I was laughed at openly in MY NEIGHBORHOOD by WM when I had a fight with my parents today on the streets (I hate those bitches). I have been beaten by white males before, and white males hate me and openly laugh at me all the time. This is no fucking joke, I have to live this shit every day, they respect other Asians but single me out for hatred. To all others: thank you for the advice. I will try to gather large AM/tough AF together for protection because WM fear AM where I live.
BTW, men of color (any color) tend to respect me, but WM just laugh at me openly, spit at me, etc. I think they can smell the radical on me or something.

[poisenedrice]

Yeah, cause it so unbelievable that in this society people's sexuality and self-image might be fucked up by social conditioning and conceptions of attractiveness.

What if somewhere there was a group of people who felt utterly emasculated by the society's bullshit racist conceptions of masculinity? What if they posted incessantly about it on an internet forum for Asian American issues?

Boy that would totally justify insecure assholes telling them to "get over it" and "grow up".

Uh, no. Please don't be a knee jerk reactionary and act like I'm quick to dismiss someone's warped self-image because of societal conditioning. In this case I honestly believe it's not about bullying, or self-image being fucked up social conditioning. This is about the credibility of a poster who posts incessantly about being fat, short, ugly and picked on at school first at MM and now here. The same threads get started, with similar advice given repeatedly, yet nothing ever changes.

Sorry, although being bullied is unjustified (coming from someone who was bullied in high school), is a shitty experience, and can be emotionally damaging, unless you take action, your personal situation is not going to change.

[KeJia Sista]

I also live in Flushing. Is there anything specific that I could do? What school is it?

Ke Jia

[xian]

Yeah, cause it so unbelievable that in this society people's sexuality and self-image might be fucked up by social conditioning and conceptions of attractiveness.

What if somewhere there was a group of people who felt utterly emasculated by the society's bullshit racist conceptions of masculinity? What if they posted incessantly about it on an internet forum for Asian American issues?

Boy that would totally justify insecure assholes telling them to "get over it" and "grow up".

Uh, no. Please don't be a knee jerk reactionary and act like I'm quick to dismiss someone's warped self-image because of societal conditioning. In this case I honestly believe it's not about bullying, or self-image being fucked up social conditioning. This is about the credibility of a poster who posts incessantly about being fat, short, ugly and picked on at school first at MM and now here. The same threads get started, with similar advice given repeatedly, yet nothing ever changes.

Sorry, although being bullied is unjustified (coming from someone who was bullied in high school), is a shitty experience, and can be emotionally damaging, unless you take action, your personal situation is not going to change.

I agree with you. You are giving good advice. Go back and read inferno's original post. Is that "tough love" or is it just an insecure person lashing out on the internet?

I'm not saying to coddle every person who shares their problems on the internet. I'm saying to not coddle every person who hides behind "tough love" as an excuse to play out their own insecurities on the internet.

[angi]

First, I would take inferno's judgement of character over anyone else's on the board. The man is usually spot on in his assessment of people. Secondly, inferno did not "lash" out at anyone. He made a valid assessment of talies general posting style and topics. Whether or not you or I agree is up to us, but he point is valid and based on her posting history.

[KeJia Sista]

First, I would take inferno's judgement of character over anyone else's on the board. The man is usually spot on in his assessment of people. Secondly, inferno did not "lash" out at anyone. He made a valid assessment of talies general posting style and topics. Whether or not you or I agree is up to us, but he point is valid and based on her posting history.

Yes. There are some who may know TS in person, or communicate privately online; but going solely from the posting history Inferno has a valid point.

Ke Jia

[angi]

I hope those who know TS (don't know who that includes) can help her out. Being a teenager was hard enough when I went through it, I am sure it is pure hell now and it would be nice for some 44s to step up and help a kid out.

I know you have offered to help, which is much kudos.

[howstrange]

jeesh. Fucken we complain about racist fucks all day, all the time and when a sister calls out for help this is what she gets? So what if she does it all the time, I've never seen a bullied person ever stopped being bullied so that doens't suprise me. It could just be that these WM will not leave her alone. Also I've seen plenty of fat, non-pretty girls get picked and beat on when I was a kid, so I do not doubt it. Also could it be that this is the issue that she cares most about so that's what she writes about it all the time? Whe I was a kid I was sometimes part of the bullying. When a girl doesn't fit the beauty standards and is somewhat of a tomboy kids around tend to resent and even hate the person for some reason, it makes them feel better about themselves or something. It's fucken sick..

[cattygurl]

Also I've seen plenty of fat, non-pretty girls get picked and beat on when I was a kid, so I do not doubt it.

TS,

I def. agree with others about keeping records, being with friends rather than alone, reporting this to the school authorities and police.

I've been physically picked on my guys back in school, so I know what you're going through.

A lot of us don't live close enough to be much more than moral support and throw around some advice, but if you need somewhere to vent and get some support, then you're more than welcome to do so here.

[rainshowerz]

Tali,
Schools nowadays have an anti-bullying laws to prevent Columbine-type incidents from happening again. So if these incidents have been reported by you or your parents, schools have an obligation to stop this bullying, OR ELSE THEY GET SUED. Trust me, my little brother was bullied in school for a while, and the teachers dismissed it as a "boys will be boys" kind of thing. It wasn't until my mom consistently mentioned about the anti-bullying laws and spoke with several administrators about the issue being ignored that they finally took steps to address it. I know it takes a lot of persistence, but if you and/or your parents inquire about the school district's anti-bullying laws and consistently report instances of bullying, maybe something will happen.

This isn't about being a snitch-ass. For someone who's pro AF-empowerment, you're being quite docile and subservient to let these fuckers get away with tormenting you. You of all people should know that women of color are constantly being pressured to keep quiet about being victims of racism, sexism, etc., and having this mentality that someone who reports incidents of abuse is a "snitch-ass" is not helping anyone, especially you.

[Heyyu]

Remember, when all else fails, kick 'em in the balls... HARD.

[cattygurl]

RS,

I had no idea there were anti-bullying laws now. That makes a LOt of sense. By all means, Tali- you're not snitiching. If someone's being unfair to you, you have the right- and dammit, it' your right- to address that. By letting them do what they are doing, you are only showing them that they're right, you're wrong, and you somehow deserve this unfair treatment. I agree with RS- it's imperative that you're not going to take this sitting down.

[inferno]

These are some examples of Taliesin Stormheller's style of posting:
__________________________________________________ ______________

I'm extremely short and fat with acne and distorted-looking features

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=28562&highlight=extremely+short#28562
Ever since I was a kid, I got a lot of shit that other Asian kids did not. I'm what you would call an 'Extreme Asian' looking type, (extreme in an unattractive way, not an 'exotic chic' way), the polar opposite of the 70-80% of Chinese people with oval faces, narrow noses, double eyelids, brownish/non blue black hair etc. People of all races considered my friends with the big almond shaped eyes and small, cute faces pretty. People saw my sallow head, broader than it is long, two slits for eyes, short stubby legs, etc.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=32760&highlight=extremely+short#32760

I have *extremely* single eyelids, you know, the stereotypical kind of eye that looks like a 'slit' and is 'slanted' and has no eyelashes at all. I have to mention that folks with single eyelids get treated WAY worse by Asians and NonAsians alike. I have had other Asians tease me about my 'slit eyes', I can't wear makeup correctly, AND I have to deal with the sistahs with big eyes getting all of the Asian Guys!

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=36685&highlight=extremely+short#36685

I can NOT find a decent pair of glasses that will fit on my bridgeless nose or across my extremely broad (cephalic index of 110! average is 80) face. The only ones that fit bump against my bulging eyepads (the blobs of flesh above my eyes) and almost fall off when I run. I can't wear contacts either because I have astigmatism and my eyes are too small to put them in easily (believe me, I tried). Headphones don't go over my head because of its size, and even petite-sized pants are too long for my extremely short legs.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=45909&highlight=extremely+short#45909


The following bit has been used more than once by its author:
I have never been hit on by ANY men, white, black or Asian. Nor have I been offered 'hot chick' bonuses. The reason? Let's just say that Hung and Cho are BOTH 1,000X hotter than I.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=28461&highlight=hung#28461

You've probably never been called ugly or disgusting on account of your weight, race and skin conditions as I have.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=39873&highlight=ugly#39873

My IQ is 97 just for comparison.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=40677&highlight=ugly#40677

I mean that I look more ethnically 'extreme' than 95% of Chinese people I see. Let's see here... (estimates)
75% of Chinese folks have double eyelids
10% have single eyelids but big
15% have flat noses
85% have narrower, nicer faces
90% have long heads
75% are taller than I

That makes about 2-5% who are as considered 'unattractive' by society as I am. I don't feel ugly. It's THEY who say I'm ugly.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=41558&highlight=ugly#41558

Being an ugly person myself, I can tell you definitively that any system emphasizing LOOKS sucks ass.

Source: http://www.thefighting44s.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=43982&highlight=ugly#43982

__________________________________________________ ______________

The responses that she gets are usually along the lines of "I have seen your pic and you look cute", "Come on, you really are not ugly at all!", "Yes, society does place too much emphasis on looks, but you are pretty. Really!", etc.

[inferno]

In this case I honestly believe it's not about bullying, or self-image being fucked up social conditioning. This is about the credibility of a poster who posts incessantly about being fat, short, ugly and picked on at school first at MM and now here. The same threads get started, with similar advice given repeatedly, yet nothing ever changes.
Ah, the man gets it.

[B the student]

dude, not that I think pointing out TS's pathological tendencies is a bad thing, but take it down a notch. she's a young one for fuck sake.

[ellencho]

I'm with inferno, angi and pr. I don't necessarily consider Talies a troll but she IS showing a sort of trollish behavior meaning she's trolling for attention. From the times I've interacted with her at mm.com chat, I can assure you she complains about the same thing all the time. When we would ignore her complaints and her pity party she would usually leave. Yes she is young, but that is no excuse for that sort of behavior. awong is young, and you don't see him leaving post after post about how unattractive he is and about how nobody finds him attractive and about how his entire family is attractive except for him because they have double lids and are tall.

Lastly, I don't think that Talies necessarily means any harm by posting what she does - maybe she doesn't have anyone at home to talk to, but at the same time obessing about one's looks isn't the healthiest thing in the world.

[xian]

So what? Everyone has those insecure moments where we seek unnatural reinforcement. I don't think it's a good thing or something to be encouraged, but I don't think calling the person a attention whore does anything.

In my experience, specifically NOT saying, "I've seen your picture and you are cute" or saying, "You are just fishing for a compliment", but instead addressing the actual points raised is the best response.

I have no idea whether TS is being bullied or not, but even if she's not, it's not like there aren't kids being bullied all over the place. Like ellen said, we don't live in the district or area code or whatever, but that doesn't mean we don't learn skills that will help us in any area code.

Whether the original poster is genuine or not, let's take them at face value in situations where the conversation will benefit the community in general.

I can't directly change TS's self image from off in internet land, no matter how many times I compliment her from a distance. But I can push the discussion away from her appearance and engage her ideas on perceptions of beauty in our society.

To lose the central message--that misconceptions of "beauty" plague a large portion of the people in our society--to rag on someone who you thing is fishing for attention does nothing to solve any problem.

[angi]

Sometimes tough love works. Part of growing up is taking the hits that life throws out at you and resolving them as an adult. Continually coddling someone and allowing them to continue to engage in self-destructive behavior is neither helathy nor helpful to the person in question.

[ellencho]

I can't directly change TS's self image from off in internet land, no matter how many times I compliment her from a distance. But I can push the discussion away from her appearance and engage her ideas on perceptions of beauty in our society.

To lose the central message--that misconceptions of "beauty" plague a large portion of the people in our society--to rag on someone who you thing is fishing for attention does nothing to solve any problem.
I couldn't agree with you more xian. I wouldn't mind talking about preconceived notions of beauty and about how it affects our daily lives, but the way her posts are presented are suspicious.

There is always the underlying "feel sorry for me", which I refuse to do, since Talies and I share many physical features in common and we both are perfectly normal looking human beings. The whole "pity party" thing is what exasperates people like inferno, angi, pr and myself, and why I find it hard to have a decent conversation with Talies about this issue. There's a way to talk about issues like unattractive physical appearance and others' reactions to it without denigrating yourself, and others who share similar features.

[vsoy]

I think TS has initiated and contributed a lot of good discussions on issues of beauty, gender roles, sexuality equality, etc. She has a lot of energy and enthusiasm in her beliefs which is refreshing.

By nature, I like to help people and it's an investment of energy to dispense my 2 cents. It's not like I expect a return of, "oh thank you such much, you're so wonderful" but the reoccuring theme of crisis then sympathy and help and crisis again, I just feel like I'm hitting a brick wall and my good nature is taken advantage of.

Eskimo mentioned in a much earlier post, if TS took some of this advice we dispense and tried to apply some form of it, then maybe some of us wouldn't feel like we're wasting our time talking to a wall. Granted, personal change takes time and I don't expect TS to run for Ms Flushing beauty pageant next week but she has been appreciative of the advice but I am not sure if she's taking it to heart and trying to use any of it.

An aside, 97 IQ is perfectly avg score for IQ and to label oneself as dumb or autistic is really not fair to average intelligence and autistic people and somewhat condenscending. There's always someone smarter than you in school, but a lot of "smart" people are pretty stupid in other ways.

[awong]

"like ellen said with the feel sorry for me type posts" I have felt the same way, it seems that talie has not done anything about her problems other than dwelling on it probably making things worse than they should be. Its like she should take action and do something about it rather than everyweek the same thing being posted, it seems the dwelling is not getting her anywhere other than being all stressed out. Plus the same advice has usually been given out to her, why haven't I seen any progress?

[eskimo]

Wow! This thread has taken a life of its own.

It's basically polarized the respondents and become a classic case of mom vs. dad arguing and justifying their respective positions where the only one who suffers is... the child. And look who's not speaking anymore.

Many different members have brought up some very good points, but one salient one is that good relationships are founded on the principle that we accept the other party's overtures at face value at least until we experience enough to be convinced otherwise. But it's clear some members have already passed this point and it's well within their right not to oblige any future requests.

Tali, I can assure you from reading all these posts no one hates you or wants to see harm done to you. If anything, let this be assurance that there are many fellow 44s who care enough about you to pay attention and are willing to help you in any way, even offering to meet you in-person.

Your best bet is to review these posts and distill the advice that's applicable to your situation and/or get direct help from your friends or family and effect a positive change. Remember, you're in control of and responsible for your life and how you manage the various obstacles you encounter throughout it. But no one can do everything on their own, so that's why it's so important to establish good relationships with people you can count on for help when you need it. But good relationships (like anything that's good) require a conscious investment of your time and energy and can definitely turn sour if one fails to give as much as one receives.

Consider posting about any positive outcomes from this or other incidents. People love hearing about success stories and are more apt to continue their support if they know their investments are resulting in concrete returns. You've got a lot of passion and the potential to lead. But you need to harness and channel that passion more effectively and focus it on the right things. Be receptive to others, especially your critics, because they can either take you down if you're not able to handle their criticisms or propel you to greatness as you answer every one of their concerns. It all depends on how you interpret and handle it.

[howstrange]

I'm sorry, I'd rather read a hundred more TS posts than another single IR thread. I wonder if much of the angst against TS has to do with her being an unattractive fat person. Perhaps even on the internet she's feeling the discrimination. I know Inferno is a health freak so his reaction to her doesn't surprise me. Health freaks tend to look down on the unhealthy and overweight with disgust and suspicion. Like I said before, the bullied rarely stopped getting bullied no matter what they do, with the exception of moving. Iím pretty sure itís going to be awhile before TS stops venting about it. Also, you know what will happen if a bullied girl fights back against their male bullies? The bullying increases and becomes more cruel because boys just donët like being punked by a fat girl. I remember there was this girl on my block that we used to bully. The saddest moment happened when she was walking home from school. She got attacked and nearly raped. When she walked through our street with her shirt torn, and in distraught, we laughed at her and taunted her. When she told us what happened, the bullying and taunting increased, some kids actually blamed her for it. Kind of reminds me of this thread. Yup, typical mom vs. dad shit.

[angi]

I'm sorry, I'd rather read a hundred more TS posts than another single IR thread. I wonder if much of the angst against TS has to do with her being an unattractive fat person. Perhaps even on the internet she's feeling the discrimination.


You're not paying attention. Many of us have seen a photo of TS (or what we have been told is TS) and she is not fat or unattractive. Many of us have told her so time and again. From her photo, she looks like a typical alternateen with colored hair and pretty hip overall look. She does not look like some monster from the blue lagoon or anything she depicts herself as.


I remember there was this girl on my block that we used to bully. The saddest moment happened when she was walking home from school. She got attacked and nearly raped. When she walked through our street with her shirt torn, and in distraught, we laughed at her and taunted her. When she told us what happened, the bullying and taunting increased, some kids actually blamed her for it. Kind of reminds me of this thread. Yup, typical mom vs. dad shit.

Just because you tortured some poor girl and now feel bad about, which you should, doesn't negate anything that inferno posted. In fact, if you read his post, he never stated that he found her fat, unttractive, or otherwise. All he posted was his annoyance at her continual threads about the same topic, for which she has received very valid and good advice.

I honestly hope that TS gets the help she needs, even if it means being transferred to another school. But that is something she has to initiate with her parents and school district. Bitching about it online is not solving her problems. Which is what I believe to be inferno's, and others', point.

[B the student]

my main concern with inferno's later posts was what was the point? I don't have an issue with people pointing out to TS that she has issues, that those that have seen her do not find her repulsive, etc. But it seemed to me that what started out as a valid issue of constructive criticism was becoming less that and more let's rub it in her face.

Honestly, I sympathize with TS on this issue b/c it was and is still an issue I deal with. And from what I understand, she's still a young one in highschool and I think many of us know how ruff that shithole can be. It's easy for us to dismiss this shit as childish, attention seeking b.s. b/c we've been through it, seen the light and realize how much of a joke highschool life was. but don't forget, she hasn't seen the light at the end of the tunnel. i think highschool is perhaps the most socially vulnerable period for everybody in this culture. i think we have to keep that in mind.

i think a lot of good points have been made and i hope TS gives what everyone has said some serious thought. and TS, like eskimo said tell us how you're dealing and the results. good luck.

[howstrange]

^
I completely agree and that is how I feel. That would also be my response to Angi's post.

[Dialectic]

Everyone here has a good point. I think True Brother's post should be carefully considered as well:

Psychologically speaking, some people have a victim type personality. It could be that if TS moved, she may once again encounter bullying. Some people have certain airs about them that seem to bring out the asshole in people. It could be some sort of meekness and a prolly mistaken perceived inability to counterattack. It stems from early childhood and continues into adulthood. I certain she's unaware of it.

I am inclined to agree with the assessment that TS generates an aura of "victimhood": that she probably has the type of personality and speech/ behavioral set which attracts bullies and repels or annoys even the well-intentioned. It even comes out here, on an anonymous internet forum.

This is no trivial thing, and this is very hard to recognize and change. Obviously none of us knows any specifics, other than she's a decent-looking girl who says and does some very contradictory things, not unexpected for someone still growing up, so unfortunately, we can't give specific advice.

TS, the best thing to do is to listen to what eskimo is saying, take full responsibility, and begin to effect significant change. I suppose a first step is to try to talk less about how ugly and repulsive you are. It's not true, and you've internalized what the bullies think about you. A second step would be to re-examine some of your extreme views on politics, race, religion, and sexuality, and see if you can either 1) not be so in-your-face about them to others and 2) moderate them reasonably and consistently.

[Dialectic]

On a related sidenote, poisenedrice also has a good point:

^No offense xian, but quit insisting this site is a life changing catalyst to help people learn and grow. That's great if you've been learning and growing, but from what I've seen, the vast majority of the people here are just here to pass the time. And based on the people who've been banned or left, coming to this site has only helped them to dig deeper into their pathologies.

While he's taking a bit of an extreme/ partial view, as I think we have helped a few people learn a bit or grow, it's true that this site has also allowed people to dig deeper into their pathologies. This really can't be helped, but hey, that's why we ban the extreme ones.

Also, as I've said before, you are what you contemplate. Therefore contemplate the Beautiful, the True, and the Good.

[Subwaybrum]

I just wanted to say that i used to be a complainer when i was still in high school. The only reason i complained so much was because (i guess most people already assume with anyone) was that i was crying for help, i just had absolutely no idea how to solve my problems. People would try to give me advice, but it was hard to put into practice considering i had no experience in getting better anyway. The main thing i feel needed during the times i was bullied, was someone close to me (ie. family member) to give some support and actual help. I didn't get any since my family was so dismissive of all the racism i was experiencing at the time and i became a very angry little boy in high school. Anyway my point is that, Taliesin Stormheller, you should try fix any problem with your relationship with your family if any. Ask them for help, maybe a good friend could as well?

In my experience, the best way to get rid of a bully is to have good comebacks or good diplomacy skills. If you wreck someone in a battle of words they won't dare to stand up to you again. Of course, those sort of skills are hard to attain and you won't always be quickthinking enough, so my solution to everything is to learn martial arts. :D

[Minh]

TS - Though I'm half way around the world passing +3 billion faces; you got a buddy here. :)

Help yourself by getting some help. Preferrably from a professional of some sort. Next time you post it'd be nice to hear about your advance and progress, epic tales. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Looking forward to it ma'am. :D

[xian]

On a related sidenote, poisenedrice also has a good point:

^No offense xian, but quit insisting this site is a life changing catalyst to help people learn and grow. That's great if you've been learning and growing, but from what I've seen, the vast majority of the people here are just here to pass the time. And based on the people who've been banned or left, coming to this site has only helped them to dig deeper into their pathologies.

While he's taking a bit of an extreme/ partial view, as I think we have helped a few people learn a bit or grow, it's true that this site has also allowed people to dig deeper into their pathologies. This really can't be helped, but hey, that's why we ban the extreme ones.

Also, as I've said before, you are what you contemplate. Therefore contemplate the Beautiful, the True, and the Good.

I agree. My point was never that TS was utterly sincere in her motives of the original post. That's rare anyway--most people have security issues.

I just don't understand why it's unacceptable for Asian American teenagers who feel alone in their identity (read nearly every teenager in our society) to vent on this site, but it's completely fine to tear into them about it.

I'm not insisting that the site be a life changing site, but I would like to see others at least not tear other Asian Americans to threads in a destructive fashion on the site.

Is the internet the best place to seek therapy? Probably not, but for some Asian American female teenagers with appearance and security issues and Asian American guys with sexual identity and security issues, it might be the best option we/they have. Saying "Batter up!" and knocking them into next Tuesday doesn't show any ability to combat the greater social issues that face the community.

You might still say, "So what?" But if we are just fucking around on the internet for gleeful enjoyment, then why not just invite all the pathological white supremacists and turn it into a big sporting event?

[da Tao]

I think we reached a point where the thread should be split: posts directly addressing TS' concerns and posts discussing the principles regarding assistance here on this site. Different priorities, different approach.

[xian]

I think we reached a point where the thread should be split: posts directly addressing TS' concerns and posts discussing the principles regarding assistance here on this site. Different priorities, different approach.

Good observation--makes sense to me.

Argh! I can't figure out how to post a portion of a message, and then tack other messages from this thread to it. Sorry, I'm a crappy mod and I don't want to put the posts that are half about one and half about the other into only one thread or the other.

[minbo]

Just a note on the history of anti-bullying laws in NYC:

Bloomberg veto'ed the legistlation due to the fact that he felt that the law is redundant to existing penal code for young adults. The city council got enough votes to override the veto and pass the legislation anyway. Bloomberg's administration then instructed the Board of Education ignore the anti-bullying laws stating hat they were illegal. The city council held hearings on the matter and the Board of Ed was instructed to not attend the meetings because they did not want the embaressment of the Board of Ed testifying at an open hearing that they were instructed to ignore legislation byt the administration.

Unfortunately in High School when you are down and don't have a good support group (network of friends), it is hard or impossible to get back up. Especially if you do not really want to change who you are. As well, unfortunately you reap what you sow. TS is ardent and outspoken in her dislike of the "White Opression" and is even more nuanced as to the white male hegemony. I don't think that it is out of ordinary that white males pick up on it and reflect the feeling back at her. Certainly her dislike for white males may have been caused by them picking on her first, but hate like anger tends to be a vicious self-amplifying circle.
hurt you.

[Altaira]

Talies,

I highly recommend the book You Can Heal Yourself by Louise Hayes. One of the ideas in the book is that
although a person's experiences shape their attitudes, they're ultimately still responsible for it and that these attitudes attract related negative or positive people.

1) Change of attitude changes the people one attracts.

Keeping this in mind, the bully target should never internalize the attacks and negative messages.

And know that bullying is an epidemic partly because aggression is an often socially rewarded trait.

Bullying is such an epidemic, in schools and in the workplace, that anti bullying laws are being drafted. There's one in the UK already, and a similar one in the U.S. is in process.

2) I would notify the school administrators and parents (including the parents of the bullies). Have your parents possibly meet with the principal to notify the bully's parents for discipline.

3) Prepare with responses to attacks.

Some responses to bullies:

a) Act like you can't remember the bully's name by saying "Who are you again?"

b) Reverse the teasing. Give the bully the same put-down he or she gives you. For example, "You think I'm ugly? Try looking in the mirror."
Make the bully look foolish when he or she says the obvious. For example, "You noticed the hole in my shirt. I'm so glad you care so much about my clothes."

c) Make fun of the bully for taunting you. Nod when the bully says something, then wait for him to repeat himself. Then say something like "Are you still talking?" Or "You keep saying the same thing. Can you say something else or is that all you know?"

d) Anticipate the bully's put-downs. Move closer to the bully before he or she has said anything and say, "Let me guess: Today I bet you want to talk about my clothes. What is it this time?" Then repeat several insults the bully has used before.


On another note, please stop putting yourself down; this invites others to do the same.
And please keep in mind that the traits your criticize in yourself are the traits of someone else, so you're putting down others as well.

[Tyger Durden]

I keep getting threats from WM in my school that they are going to kick my ass after school. Note that these WM are not racist or sexist, they have AM friends. (BTW, AM don't respect me either, no Asian guy (hell, no guy) has ever asked me out in skool.) Most of my friends are AF and BF.) It's because they're so thin, tall and 'ghetto fabulous' and that they represent all that is superior about Man and I represent the antithesis of that. Note also that guys usually do not beat up girls. This is because I am butt ugly, I just know it. Pretty girls get respected so much more. I always get shit like 'you are such an ugly disgusting pig' and 'go back to your shit hole' and 'you live in a dumpster' and I overheard 'man, you know who's ugly? margaret cho and sandra oh. and you know who looks even chinkier than them, tali' etc. What should I do? I do not want to be a snitch ass. I also keep getting my stuff stolen and I think that it is WM who are responsible. Note that I am very short, wear large glasses, and am fat/dumpy, have lots of acne and am ugly according to society's views. I am also extremely loud and outspoken. Not very respectable or threatening looking.

TS: you strike me as someone who is much OLDER than a mere high-school student.

are/were you having these problems at a college or a university?

those locales would/should have security and you can SUE the school for NOT providing for your safety through their neglect.

And as an adult you could pursue LEGAL means against the ones harrassing you and the ones that should in charge of PROTECTING you from harrassment.

[The Ram]

TS is in high school.

[Tyger Durden]

TS is in high school.

TS: then your PARENTS should talk to the high school officials and THREATEN legal action if they can't handle providing adequate security for you and the rest of their students.

[Altaira]

jeesh. Fucken we complain about racist fucks all day, all the time and when a sister calls out for help this is what she gets? So what if she does it all the time, I've never seen a bullied person ever stopped being bullied so that doens't suprise me. It could just be that these WM will not leave her alone. Also I've seen plenty of fat, non-pretty girls get picked and beat on when I was a kid, so I do not doubt it. Also could it be that this is the issue that she cares most about so that's what she writes about it all the time? Whe I was a kid I was sometimes part of the bullying. When a girl doesn't fit the beauty standards and is somewhat of a tomboy kids around tend to resent and even hate the person for some reason, it makes them feel better about themselves or something. It's fucken sick..

Yes, it's sick, and I disagree with judgemental types who think they're always right and pick on easy targets rather than harder targets.