PDA

View Full Version : My Blunt, Condescending, and Holier-Than-Thou Posting Style


Dialectic
Mar 2nd, 2005, 01:51 AM
I know that I sometimes come across as a blunt, condescending asshole to some people (generally, but not always, other blunt, condescending assholes). As this is not likely to change, I want to give a few reasons why I post the way I do.

One very simple reason is lack of time. I simply don't have enough of it to run through lengthy posts in repetitive week-long conversations with anonymous people about subject matter which has already been developed and clarified at length in both this forum and the brighter and more compassionate minds of the world. This is part of the reason why the Declarations, Rules of Engagement, and Integral Slated forums exist: to give a solid grounding in basic and fundamental moral/cognitive issues so that we may further push the boundaries of understanding of every possible level of development here.

The next reason has to do with "pattern-interrupts." I want to use a conversation I had with Anarchrist a few months ago as an example. Quite a few people on this and other forums were ripping into "The Last Samurai." Yes, there was a legitimate reason to do it: White dude lives, becomes a Samurai, and gets the girl through a set of highly improbable circumstances and accomplishments. Asian dudes die. As is the case in uncontrolled and angry discussion, however, people began to level accusations at the movie which were objectively untrue. Anarchrist, a person whose intelligence and morality I deeply respect, was a part of this, and I was very surprised that he was accusing the movie of depicting and characterizing races and ideas in a way that it quantifiably did not do.

I made a comment, then, about how he was in danger of slipping into a dark and closed tunnel: you start changing facts to fit your accusations, you start on the road to fanaticism.

This was not well-received, and Anarchrist made it quite clear that he thought I was being an asshole, and I think there may even have been a break in his posting after that (we're cool now).

Could I have handled it in a less threatening and abrupt manner? Certainly, yes. I could've made a much lengthier post, made the tone more understanding and compassionate, and gone through, in a polite and unthreatening way, each factually erroneous point that he and others made. Frankly, I didn't have the time to do it, and more, I wanted to make certain that what I said had not only an intellectual but also emotional impact, which long posts tend not to do.

Fighting 44s is not here to breed fanatics or loyalists. That would be EASY. Given the sheer number of angry, fanatical men who have come to our site and the rate at which they post, we could have encouraged that anger and irrationality, fanned the flames of their fanaticism, and actually swayed them into doing some fairly significant and possibly damaging things to people and institutions around them in real life. Along with this, we could have made AT LEAST a few grand by now selling merchandise to our loyal and fanatical followers doing almost no work: all it would take is the occasional "Whitey sucks! Fuck Team America! Go shoot Bai Ling!" and a simple merchandise page.

But we have NOT done that. That's not what we set out to fucking do. We set out to plant a few big ideas in the world, to meet cool people, and to OPEN MINDS.

So this means that when we hear bullshit, we call it out. Yes, we do it 'cause it's just fun and we're not above being the occasional asshole, but we also do it because we don't want to see minds going to waste fixating on stupid, useless, and wrong thinking. And we don't have time to take every member by the hand and leave him/ her through it.

Dialectic
Mar 9th, 2005, 01:41 AM
Speaking of harshness, take the current tiff with Xenzu in Fight Club. I could've been more reasonable, and I could've parried his dig at me with some witticism back, but what can I say, he annoyed me and he's been a closed-minded open-minded person (path Green) from Day 1.

None of the Founders or Mods (particularly Tojo) has ever hidden the scale and nature of our emotions. We promised emotional sincerity, and there it is.

(And now for a dig.)

Another thing that annoys me (assholes take note!) is when personas who are clearly invested in the forum, Kalbi being an example, are attacked, they suddenly revert to, "Ha ha ha! I annoyed you! And I don't give a fuck! You're all bullshit! This is all bullshit and I don't give a fuck! Ha ha ha!" when clearly, a fuck is being given, and has been given for a long time. For a guy that hated Kalbi so much and saw so much of him in me, Xenzu has quite a lot of the K in him.

xian
Mar 9th, 2005, 10:02 AM
Another thing that annoys me (assholes take note!) is when personas who are clearly invested in the forum, Kalbi being an example, are attacked, they suddenly revert to, "Ha ha ha! I annoyed you! And I don't give a fuck! You're all bullshit! This is all bullshit and I don't give a fuck! Ha ha ha!" when clearly, a fuck is being given, and has been given for a long time. For a guy that hated Kalbi so much and saw so much of him in me, Xenzu has quite a lot of the K in him.

Wrong, Obi-Wan.

I treat you with precisely the same amount of respect you accord me.

You need to do some work on that front, yourself, O high-and-mighty Yahweh.

Well, logic would say that you both have some work to do right? How is this not kids in the schoolyard saying, "Well he did it too!"

BTW, why do you have to use a lame, "Obi-Wan" or "Chairman Mao" in every post? After all, I can insert a random name into the sentence too, Ashley Olsen!

Dialectic
Mar 9th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Actually, bartleby is not banned. Neither is fatfish, and both check in on the forum occasionally, though they do it invisibly. We unbanned everyone a while back and then started banning again when people became even bigger assholes.

In the words of poisenedrice:

Xenzu, you're a cock gobbling pseudo-intellectual. I noticed you resorted to numerous personal attacks on D, and then when he finally fights back, your Sweet Valley High mature ass twists it into "Ha! You got angry!"

Way to go asshole, you should join the Republican party: any name calling on your part is warranted but then when the favor is returned, suddenly your opponent is the immature asshole.

Peace.

As for my lack of humility or my condescending demeanor, I only respond that way when I'm attacked first. In civil intellectual debates and random banter, I'm respectful as fuck. If all you're reading is my bullshit, that says more about what you select to read than how I generally interact.

My fuck-ups? I'll list a few now.

1) Too hard on Fightwithme (though he spammed the forum)
2) Too curt with Anarchrist (though he had unfair and incorrect criticisms)
3) Too hard on Blue-kun (though he only jumped in on the debate to defend Koreans and not Whites)
4) Too hard on Kwak (though he was completely fixated on WM/AF in this forum, something we said from the beginning we would not tolerate)
5) Too hard on seoulbrotherno1 (though he flat out admits to hating whitey, see his signature at Kwak's forum, says hating whitey is cool, something we said from the beginning we would not tolerate)

Your fuck-up, Xenzu?

Closed-mindedness. You're an equality bigot who refuses to even recognize why something like IR disparity is a problem, who thinks that by acting like everyone is equal and enlightened that you can fool the world into thinking that everyone is equal and enlightened, and all that does is HURT the victims of inequality and ignorance.

Dialectic
Mar 11th, 2005, 01:40 AM
You know what? I'll add another entry to my list of fuck-ups.

6) Too curt with evil_fux in the Integral discussion. I should've taken more time to address his questions and concerns a while back and not been so directly critical/ judgmental of his approach to learning and asking for more explanation. I fear I may have turned him off Integral (there are a few other people who have certainly been turned off it here, but since they approached it with viciously closed minds, I don't really care), or at least dampened his enthusiasm for this site and its vision, and for that I am sorry and I apologize.

Also, when I have some time, there will be more material going into Integral Slanted. Sothy and I have fairly long discussions over email which I'll post soon. (Actually at this point it's mostly him talking and me not responding. Yet.)

Dialectic
Mar 11th, 2005, 01:49 AM
Though Xenzu won't be reading these (I fervently hope), I'll respond for anyone who's interested:

And another thing, you have displayed a complete (and becoming) lack of humility in the role you've assumed.

This is only with the assholes. Look at how I treat mods, long-time members, and newcomers.

Take that 'tiff' you had with bartleby some months back - you banned him for no reason over a disagreement you had with him over the Tibet Question - that was a prime example of your Monumental Arrogance.

No, I banned him because he was an asshole.

I don't much like bartleby but I like even less the high-handed way you treated him with even though he was making an entirely legitimate point.

No, he wasn't. He and 3line were both dismantled.

SB1 is another guy you were a prick towards.

His FIRST post on this forum was "It's okay to hate White people!!" His signature is now "If hating whitey is wrong, I don't wanna be right."

My only problem with kalbi was that he was, ultimately, a fraud. My beef with you is that you have also exhibited some pretty fraudulent behaviour. You've pushed guys like kalbs out the door when you ultimately, at heart, agree with their credo yet you pretend otherwise.

I was defending Kalbi outside of this forum most of his time here. The girls didn't like him, the mods were mixed about him, and finally, I got a PM from another member here telling me about the direct personal and racist attacks against him until I finally said fine, he's gone. I don't agree with racial purity or getting back at whitey or "go go AsIaNs!!!" at all. But you're too closed-minde to see this.

You might not have liked his style but you certainly agreed with his agenda.

I didn't agree with it at all. I have written a great deal on why he was permitted to stay as long as he did, but it wasn't on the public forums. Essentially, he knew how to skirt the line, but he pushed it too far.

You only got rid of those wankers because too many other people objected to them.

No. If I like someone and too many people object, fuck 'em. But I look at who's objecting, and if it's the reasonable and lovable people here, and a lot of them are objecting, then what's wrong with listening to them? Aren't you a proponent of listening to and representing the people? I know I am, I just don't treat all people's opinions equally, as opinions and people are not equal.

At any rate the few posts in this thread are one of many examples of Xenzu's inability to distinguish cognitive and moral depth; this in itself is not grounds for banning, as a lot people here and in the world can't do that. But he kept getting up in peoples faces with it.

He equated me with Kalbi for fuck's sake. I said that in Asian advocate groups, Asians with Asian partners would best represent Asians and Asian partners. And he equated me with Kalbi, implying that I was a bigot, a misogynist, a hypocrite, a liar, and a tyrant.

And even THAT would've been okay if we had been in Fight Club and I was being an asshole. But I gave a considered and reasoned and respectful opinion in the thread, and he fucked with me out of the blue with no provocation.

And I'm the asshole? I'm the ineffective leader? Do you know what would happen to someone who did that in business, in academics, in rights-groups, in any kind of real organization and not a perceived-liberal internet forum? And I'm the dumb, ineffective asshole?

evil_FUX
Mar 11th, 2005, 03:41 AM
You know what? I'll add another entry to my list of fuck-ups.

6) Too curt with evil_fux in the Integral discussion. I should've taken more time to address his questions and concerns a while back and not been so directly critical/ judgmental of his approach to learning and asking for more explanation. I fear I may have turned him off Integral (there are a few other people who have certainly been turned off it here, but since they approached it with viciously closed minds, I don't really care), or at least dampened his enthusiasm for this site and its vision, and for that I am sorry and I apologize.

Actually, it's all good D. I'll admit I did feel it was a bit curt, but I think that half of that was due to me and possibly not explaning my thoughts and positions more thoroughly.

As for learning about ITP, I'm still up for it. It's just that I'm still investigating it in my own way before I go head on and delve deeper on its concepts. Also, you haven't really turned me off to the site. Lately, I just end up not having the time to go through the threads and digest them due to things going on in my life at the moment. Further, I'll admit my enthusiasm has been dampened but that was mainly, at the time, reading the occasional bullshit posts by some of our "favorite" members.

In any case, thanks for the apology. I'm thinking about getting Wilber's Theory of Everything, but everytime I see it in the bookstore I just can't bring myself to shell out the cash for it.