da Tao
Dec 20th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Oh and yo on a whole other note, I was talking to Lopan and briefly mentioned your attempts to enter the Ukraine. While I will not issue a blanket "what the fuck are you doing?" I am curious as to why you would pick this time to go.
For the benefit of providing context, the period of time in question was the weekend of Nov 26. It was shortly after the Ukrainian Presidental election was decried as a major fraud by international observers - ballot stuffing, intimidation, near or over 100% voter turnout rate in the Eastern regions who favours the pro-Russian candidate Yanukovych... (To be fair, some irregularities were also reported in the west pro-EU region in favour of the candidate Yushchenko).
A massive rally took place (and still is) taking place in Kiev and other western Ukrainian districts, and tension gripped the world both on the ground and in world capitals.
The reason why I am posting here is that perhaps it is time to get a fresh view of things and get some capital for my next move. I think this little story could be a telling microcosm.
So what the fuck was I doing?
This is the email I sent on that Friday at 4AM, while I was sitting in a dark room scanning my dead worms with a laser confocal microscope - getting more and more caught up with changes happening over in Kiev.
Subject: I need a good reason NOT to go to Kiev for 400 british pounds.
It is history in the making - it is either now - when even the pro-government media has turned - or read CNN and BBC for the entire week.
Of course, none of my insurance covers civil insurrections... but what the hey. Seriously, if you can think of a good reason - because I can't.
Decision will be made in 3 hrs.
And after 3hrs I made a rushed preparation for Ukraine. (This is quite a story in itself, but I will post this in the Travel thread instead.) Caught a train to Geneva, slept overnight at the station and bought my ticket over the counter. I got this email from one of my friends while I stopped over at the Amsterdam airport...
I just thought I'd be the voice of reason and say this is one of the
most idiotic things I've ever heard.
It's almost along the lines of those Canadians who go get themselves
arrested in China for protesting where they know it's not allowed to
and then expect to be bailed out and treated like "Canadians".
Just because your mother is not there to tell you not to do something
stupid, doesn't mean you have to act like a boy and go "oohh, riots,
chaos, DANGER, let's go!". For god sakes, any day now the new declared
"president" or whoever the hell he is might just bring in troops, and
THEN what are you going to do?
It's an unfamiliar country, you LOOK like a foreigner, you DON'T speak
the language. You will be there against the advice of your government
AND every other SENSIBLE person (god knows what the people HERE are
thinking).
Again, what the fuck are you thinking????
Ok, that email wasn't that relevant to the story but I thought it was funny. :lol:
This was my response: (There were others giving their input, which was equally funny... but again, maybe later.)
Dear friends,
I thank you all for your care and support - and I do seriously mean that - even K, whom said so in his own special 'tastefully' tasteless way.
I am where I said I am right now, it was touch and go for a while because I could not convince the first clerk to check me in without visa. (I am applying for an emergency visa in the Kiev airport.) So I went to another clerk and convince her that I can do that with a slip of paper that I claim to came from the Ukraine Consulate (instead it is from the Lonely Planet.)
L, you are right to some degree - and those are valid points that you brought up. And even AL, who can be considered one of the most worldly one among us, were skeptical.
It is a good chance to test my abilities, though the fact that I am going might indicate that I lack foresight and good sense. This whole thing reminded me of the model UN I did back in highschool... our delegation failed miseribly - the serbian delegration drove a hard case. I was told by our team lead that I was overconfident of my abilities (but my hand was tied to certain... tactics) - might as well.
If my hubris and myself cannot coexist together - might as well learn that lesson now - before I end up with wife and kids.
Thats it good luck to me!
The thing was that I didn't buy into that explaination completely. Part of the story was missing, and part of it was truth-stretching. (And part of it was that I was running out of credits at the cybercafe and so I had to be rough around the edges.)
There are two questions here: what the fuck was I doing, and why I would pick this time to go. The two interwine somewhat...
Why then? Short answer - It was history in the making. I don't want my European experience to be just muesums, parties, landmarks and hostels... One has to see the other side - sadness, suffering, struggles. Without which life, the human experience is not complete.
I wanted to see a pivotal moment in a people's history, and in geopolitics. Even if they don't speak English, you can see in people's eyes their hopes, fears and the where they are getting their strength to determine triumph and defeat.
I have never been to a national protest, and definitely not one that approach the scale of a revolution. The Ukrainian people, braving cold temperatures, surrounding government buildings in peaceful protests. Getting no more than 2 hrs of sleep a night in makeshift tent cities, eating from open air soup kitchens with their orange banners and hobo stove for warmth. Quite romantic.
It will be an unique experience amongst my peers... one that will be hard-matched. The pictures of the moment, the stories to be told...
On the other hand, this adventure is to affirm to myself that I have both the will and the ability to exercise my will - even in unfamiliar settings. That was to be a test of my wit and resourcefulness. Like I said above, I better be able to reconcile my delusions/ego with my assets before other people share in my liabilities.
And on this, I turn to safety. My assessment was that a violent confrontation was unlikely for the reason that NO ONE stands to benefit from one... given that:
- Expert opinion (I admit it is one talking head on CNN) said that the military and police are not in the mood to engage civilians.
- The risk of losing Western support if Yushchenko's camp advocate or commits violence. (He wish to bring Ukraine into the folds of EU and NATO)
- Putin's reluctance to be painted as a bad guy any more than he is. He gave his congrats to Yanukovych BEFORE the results are confirmed by the central election commission. And now in face of massive protest he can't be seen as TOO close to Yanukovych else he will lose face. Furthermore, any direct influence might actually cost Russian influence in its near aboard such as Georgia and Belarus.
- There are no reports of police or troops mobilization for an offensive.
- Television stations that used to support Yanukovych has on Friday renounced him and began a more even coverage of the election. (Yanukovych is the still the prime minister and exerted control on two major channels.) Since this is a very recent shift in tides, any unfair action to quash the demonstration will reflect extremely poorly on Yanukovych. (The supreme court has suspended the announcement of the result until allegations of fraud can be investigated.)
- The people's will to follow in the footsteps of the Rose Revolution.
- My gut said so.
The worse that could have happened to me was being mugged (unlikely if I made it to the protest spot) or held in custody (if the authorities wanted to extort money from me or just didn't like the way I looked).
So this security analysis provides few more reasons of why then... (it should be evident by now that most of my interests falls under the umbrella of statecraft - security, diplomacy, geopolitics, economics, development, etc...)
Because if shit does hit the fan... then this means:
1) I miscalculated and I deserve what I get as a lesson. "Live by the sword, die by the sword." I always say.
2) It is one of those extreme moments in history and I will belong to it and it to me.
3) It will be the greatest challenge I have faced, great chance will find out more about who I am and if I make it out all right then I have something (more) to validate my existence.
So to summarize... why I went. Because it works on so many levels - don't try to look for organization below cause you won't find it:
It is historic, human, humbling. I am not working on a career or doing gradschool and I have to valid my time off with life experiences that will make my peers envy me - because I envy them. I want an interesting life, I want to be able to tell stories to people, I like to be labeled as crazy every now and then.
Getting sidetracked a bit, it is also because I wanted to see Ukraine for itself, as the furthest east in europe as I have ever got, as part of the old Soviet Bloc... and as the origin of borsche soup and this food made out of pig fat. And even though the chance of picking up was small (the girls would definitely have more emotionaly kinship to protesting for the same cause - check out news articles on pregnancy test and marriages inside camp city) I was prepared for that possibility as well.
One way to categorize people is like this: Those who live by the goodwill of others, those that live by being useful to others (whether symbiotic or commensuralism) and those that claim their stake in the world and come unto their own. I think I am on the boundary between the first and the second - where I am given opportunities because I have some promise - but none that I converted into any system for the long term.
It was going to be an exciting adventure, a test to see if I can hack it. This is maybe what some would call the lust for life, or the will to power. Experience. I have a premonition that some aspects of life most people are familiar with will be denied to me by conscious choice or by external limitations - or maybe because those aspects involves one "to get lost in".
Have you thought about the sheer immensity of the human experience? What is it like to carry a child and give birth? What is it like to give your son to Bono so he can live? Or to pull life-support on your daughter on New Years day after your wife just died in the same car accident cause by your dozing relative? or to be a child soldier? What is it like to kill or be killed? I can be a Hutu husband forced by the militia to kill my Tutsi wife and in-laws. Or I can eat the livers of my enemies, or cut off the penis of my foe and stick it in their decapitated head as a mean to terrorize. What is it like to till the soil? Pick grapes under the gentle sun? Or sit in tranquility with your mate in your old age on a rocking bench on the porch behind a white picket fence, sipping on wine on a lazy afternoon in California?
I didn't mean to be excessively graphic, and I apologize to those who find it as such. But the thing is - I didn't make any of that up. That is real life for one of us human beings out there. And when I think of that, I realize that there a lot of things that doesn't really matter - and yet, I have to find a way into the same system to affect things that do matter.
To bring this to full circle and back into focus: I am concerned or I fear or I think that these adventures that I go on is a symptom of a larger issue... that it is a temporary measure to experience (other's?) life without building the capacity to sustain my own. Hence, I may need to take active steps to sort myself out. (Or put simply: getting a real life.)
This post is not meant to be conclusive, and as discussion goes on perhaps I will discover what the key issue is. I welcome any replies.
For the benefit of providing context, the period of time in question was the weekend of Nov 26. It was shortly after the Ukrainian Presidental election was decried as a major fraud by international observers - ballot stuffing, intimidation, near or over 100% voter turnout rate in the Eastern regions who favours the pro-Russian candidate Yanukovych... (To be fair, some irregularities were also reported in the west pro-EU region in favour of the candidate Yushchenko).
A massive rally took place (and still is) taking place in Kiev and other western Ukrainian districts, and tension gripped the world both on the ground and in world capitals.
The reason why I am posting here is that perhaps it is time to get a fresh view of things and get some capital for my next move. I think this little story could be a telling microcosm.
So what the fuck was I doing?
This is the email I sent on that Friday at 4AM, while I was sitting in a dark room scanning my dead worms with a laser confocal microscope - getting more and more caught up with changes happening over in Kiev.
Subject: I need a good reason NOT to go to Kiev for 400 british pounds.
It is history in the making - it is either now - when even the pro-government media has turned - or read CNN and BBC for the entire week.
Of course, none of my insurance covers civil insurrections... but what the hey. Seriously, if you can think of a good reason - because I can't.
Decision will be made in 3 hrs.
And after 3hrs I made a rushed preparation for Ukraine. (This is quite a story in itself, but I will post this in the Travel thread instead.) Caught a train to Geneva, slept overnight at the station and bought my ticket over the counter. I got this email from one of my friends while I stopped over at the Amsterdam airport...
I just thought I'd be the voice of reason and say this is one of the
most idiotic things I've ever heard.
It's almost along the lines of those Canadians who go get themselves
arrested in China for protesting where they know it's not allowed to
and then expect to be bailed out and treated like "Canadians".
Just because your mother is not there to tell you not to do something
stupid, doesn't mean you have to act like a boy and go "oohh, riots,
chaos, DANGER, let's go!". For god sakes, any day now the new declared
"president" or whoever the hell he is might just bring in troops, and
THEN what are you going to do?
It's an unfamiliar country, you LOOK like a foreigner, you DON'T speak
the language. You will be there against the advice of your government
AND every other SENSIBLE person (god knows what the people HERE are
thinking).
Again, what the fuck are you thinking????
Ok, that email wasn't that relevant to the story but I thought it was funny. :lol:
This was my response: (There were others giving their input, which was equally funny... but again, maybe later.)
Dear friends,
I thank you all for your care and support - and I do seriously mean that - even K, whom said so in his own special 'tastefully' tasteless way.
I am where I said I am right now, it was touch and go for a while because I could not convince the first clerk to check me in without visa. (I am applying for an emergency visa in the Kiev airport.) So I went to another clerk and convince her that I can do that with a slip of paper that I claim to came from the Ukraine Consulate (instead it is from the Lonely Planet.)
L, you are right to some degree - and those are valid points that you brought up. And even AL, who can be considered one of the most worldly one among us, were skeptical.
It is a good chance to test my abilities, though the fact that I am going might indicate that I lack foresight and good sense. This whole thing reminded me of the model UN I did back in highschool... our delegation failed miseribly - the serbian delegration drove a hard case. I was told by our team lead that I was overconfident of my abilities (but my hand was tied to certain... tactics) - might as well.
If my hubris and myself cannot coexist together - might as well learn that lesson now - before I end up with wife and kids.
Thats it good luck to me!
The thing was that I didn't buy into that explaination completely. Part of the story was missing, and part of it was truth-stretching. (And part of it was that I was running out of credits at the cybercafe and so I had to be rough around the edges.)
There are two questions here: what the fuck was I doing, and why I would pick this time to go. The two interwine somewhat...
Why then? Short answer - It was history in the making. I don't want my European experience to be just muesums, parties, landmarks and hostels... One has to see the other side - sadness, suffering, struggles. Without which life, the human experience is not complete.
I wanted to see a pivotal moment in a people's history, and in geopolitics. Even if they don't speak English, you can see in people's eyes their hopes, fears and the where they are getting their strength to determine triumph and defeat.
I have never been to a national protest, and definitely not one that approach the scale of a revolution. The Ukrainian people, braving cold temperatures, surrounding government buildings in peaceful protests. Getting no more than 2 hrs of sleep a night in makeshift tent cities, eating from open air soup kitchens with their orange banners and hobo stove for warmth. Quite romantic.
It will be an unique experience amongst my peers... one that will be hard-matched. The pictures of the moment, the stories to be told...
On the other hand, this adventure is to affirm to myself that I have both the will and the ability to exercise my will - even in unfamiliar settings. That was to be a test of my wit and resourcefulness. Like I said above, I better be able to reconcile my delusions/ego with my assets before other people share in my liabilities.
And on this, I turn to safety. My assessment was that a violent confrontation was unlikely for the reason that NO ONE stands to benefit from one... given that:
- Expert opinion (I admit it is one talking head on CNN) said that the military and police are not in the mood to engage civilians.
- The risk of losing Western support if Yushchenko's camp advocate or commits violence. (He wish to bring Ukraine into the folds of EU and NATO)
- Putin's reluctance to be painted as a bad guy any more than he is. He gave his congrats to Yanukovych BEFORE the results are confirmed by the central election commission. And now in face of massive protest he can't be seen as TOO close to Yanukovych else he will lose face. Furthermore, any direct influence might actually cost Russian influence in its near aboard such as Georgia and Belarus.
- There are no reports of police or troops mobilization for an offensive.
- Television stations that used to support Yanukovych has on Friday renounced him and began a more even coverage of the election. (Yanukovych is the still the prime minister and exerted control on two major channels.) Since this is a very recent shift in tides, any unfair action to quash the demonstration will reflect extremely poorly on Yanukovych. (The supreme court has suspended the announcement of the result until allegations of fraud can be investigated.)
- The people's will to follow in the footsteps of the Rose Revolution.
- My gut said so.
The worse that could have happened to me was being mugged (unlikely if I made it to the protest spot) or held in custody (if the authorities wanted to extort money from me or just didn't like the way I looked).
So this security analysis provides few more reasons of why then... (it should be evident by now that most of my interests falls under the umbrella of statecraft - security, diplomacy, geopolitics, economics, development, etc...)
Because if shit does hit the fan... then this means:
1) I miscalculated and I deserve what I get as a lesson. "Live by the sword, die by the sword." I always say.
2) It is one of those extreme moments in history and I will belong to it and it to me.
3) It will be the greatest challenge I have faced, great chance will find out more about who I am and if I make it out all right then I have something (more) to validate my existence.
So to summarize... why I went. Because it works on so many levels - don't try to look for organization below cause you won't find it:
It is historic, human, humbling. I am not working on a career or doing gradschool and I have to valid my time off with life experiences that will make my peers envy me - because I envy them. I want an interesting life, I want to be able to tell stories to people, I like to be labeled as crazy every now and then.
Getting sidetracked a bit, it is also because I wanted to see Ukraine for itself, as the furthest east in europe as I have ever got, as part of the old Soviet Bloc... and as the origin of borsche soup and this food made out of pig fat. And even though the chance of picking up was small (the girls would definitely have more emotionaly kinship to protesting for the same cause - check out news articles on pregnancy test and marriages inside camp city) I was prepared for that possibility as well.
One way to categorize people is like this: Those who live by the goodwill of others, those that live by being useful to others (whether symbiotic or commensuralism) and those that claim their stake in the world and come unto their own. I think I am on the boundary between the first and the second - where I am given opportunities because I have some promise - but none that I converted into any system for the long term.
It was going to be an exciting adventure, a test to see if I can hack it. This is maybe what some would call the lust for life, or the will to power. Experience. I have a premonition that some aspects of life most people are familiar with will be denied to me by conscious choice or by external limitations - or maybe because those aspects involves one "to get lost in".
Have you thought about the sheer immensity of the human experience? What is it like to carry a child and give birth? What is it like to give your son to Bono so he can live? Or to pull life-support on your daughter on New Years day after your wife just died in the same car accident cause by your dozing relative? or to be a child soldier? What is it like to kill or be killed? I can be a Hutu husband forced by the militia to kill my Tutsi wife and in-laws. Or I can eat the livers of my enemies, or cut off the penis of my foe and stick it in their decapitated head as a mean to terrorize. What is it like to till the soil? Pick grapes under the gentle sun? Or sit in tranquility with your mate in your old age on a rocking bench on the porch behind a white picket fence, sipping on wine on a lazy afternoon in California?
I didn't mean to be excessively graphic, and I apologize to those who find it as such. But the thing is - I didn't make any of that up. That is real life for one of us human beings out there. And when I think of that, I realize that there a lot of things that doesn't really matter - and yet, I have to find a way into the same system to affect things that do matter.
To bring this to full circle and back into focus: I am concerned or I fear or I think that these adventures that I go on is a symptom of a larger issue... that it is a temporary measure to experience (other's?) life without building the capacity to sustain my own. Hence, I may need to take active steps to sort myself out. (Or put simply: getting a real life.)
This post is not meant to be conclusive, and as discussion goes on perhaps I will discover what the key issue is. I welcome any replies.