Getting out of my rut

[wipe my tushy]

So I'm a sexually frustrated asian man in my mid-twenties. I don't mind mentioning this even if it makes me unpopular around these parts cuz hey, its an anonymous forum. Dialectic encouraged me to post here so that I could improve myself and my situation... I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain, so here goes.
a brief bio of my romantic life:
I used to have a girlfriend in college until she basically dropped me like a bad habit. That was my first and only real relationship ever.
After college, I've worked and pursued more studies in school which has taken up a lot of my time, and though I've had a few dates once every blue moon, I haven't had any romantic relationships that amounted to anything. I enjoy hanging out with a small group of friends that I've had since high school, but it never amounts to meeting women, even when we go out to drink since everyone of them just brings their own girlfriend, and I never meet any single women. I went to college far away from where I currently live, so I haven't been able to keep in contact with any college buddies.
I'm a very shy person by the way, especially around girls. Its gotten worse over the years and I used to be pretty confident in high school and had a lot of friends that were women. A large cause of my shyness is the accumulated crappy experiences I've had growing up that convinced me that I must be pretty unattractive, though some people tell me otherwise (my pic on hotornot.com ended up with like a 5.6 after like 30 votes... I took it down early cuz I was scared someone I know in real life would see it).
Maybe cuz of my shyness, I haven't been able to meet any girls in school/work. My school is really small and gossipy, so I find it hard to meet women in such an environment, especially since most of the women are already taken and there are few asian women (and of those, most of are dating white guys). I feel even more intimidated around non-asian women cuz I doubt that they would ever be interested in an asian guy, especially since I don't exactly look like Aaron Kwak or Rick Yune.
So what can I do? Anything?

[ellencho]

If you can, work on your self-confidence. Just try meeting new people, whether it be male or female, asian or non-asian. That'll help you get out of your shell. Maybe once every week for the next couple months, introduce yourself to somebody new. Anyone. It doesn't have to be a student at your school, introduce yourself to a custodian, or someone who works in the cafeteria, or a shopkeeper at someplace where you like to shop.

Once you feel comfortable introducing yourself to new people, you might feel better about approaching women you're interested in dating. That doesn't necessarily mean every woman will be interested in you, but the more women you approach, the higher your chances that somebody will be interested.

[wipe my tushy]

thanks for the input but I think I would be too embarassed or awkward introducing myself to someone out of nowhere... unless its an atmosphere where I'm at the gym or playing cards with the guys.
I've been trying to do that lately though. It seems no one ever starts conversations with me however.

[wipe my tushy]

I don't think women are gonna come out of the woodwork even if I suddenly started making $100,000 a year. Then again, it couldn't hurt since I have zero income right now. Thanks for the input tho.

[dragon]

Alright dude! Check this out!

Make it a point to say hello to at least 2 strangers a day. Preferably female...naw'mean? If possible, start a conversation with the initial "Hello". It'll boost your confidence and conversational skills.

And, what's always worked for me is getting your bud's gals to introduce you to some of their friends. Just like jobs, referrals are highly favored and increases your success rate.

Good luck, brah! We'll make you a studly, fanged womanizer in no time.

:wink:

[wipe my tushy]

I've heard snobby girls complain before about 'ewww... that ugly guy tried to talk to me.' I guess I don't want that to be me, so I'm hesitant at approaching girls I don't know.

[B the student]

i'm kinda in a similiar situation myself wipe. I'm super shy with people i don't know, and just the thought of going up to someone i don't know and trying to start a conversation with them seems impossible (unless i'm at work). hell, in all honesty i've never asked a girl out in a straight forward manner to her face (one slight exception being my last gf who set me up to ask her and i didn't even realize i was asking her out on a date, i was thinking more of a friends deal. but i digress). i really wish i could give you some helpful pointers to boost your confidence levels because that's going to be the key to meeting girls.

My one good suggestion is if you're not already working out, start. It really does make you feel better, especially after a good session. If you're feeling healthy and good, i think people can kinda sense that and are attracted to it. plus increase body development will probably knock you a point or two higher on the hottness scale and if you manage to overcome your confidence issues you could probably score in the 8's which is pretty damn good.

one word of caution: avoid being too self critical of yourself. that's my achilles' heel. oh and avoid making the asking more than what is. if you look at it as simply an opportunity to learn more about a person than i think it'll be easier to ask. i, unfortunately, am still too immature to do this.

hmm i guess that's all i got for you. hope it helps and good luck! :D

[cattygurl]

In that case, start with talking to people that you have a business talking to- like the guy or girl at the checkout counter, etc. One of the most important things you can do is to make saying "hi" and starting a conversation very natural whether you're talking to a guy or girl. Also, smile. You may feel weird doing it, but always make sure to smile. If you're nervous, the other person senses it, and often the mood becomes awkward. Learn to give genuine compliments. If you like the button the checkout girl has on her shirt, tell her. It's always nice to compliment specific things (that's a funny t-shirt, for example), rather than say something like you're pretty or you have a nice smile.

The thing is, most strangers don't talk to you. I rarely have people start conversations, but I always try to. I've learned that the bonus is that people remember you, and if you're nice and polite, you end up getting good service (whether it's ppl at Starbuck's or the grocery store).

Also, what are your interests? It's a good idea to join groups that share similar interests. Do you enjoy movies? Join a film club. Do you like hiking? Sierra Club has excellent singles get-togethers. Like cooking? Take cooking classes.

[B the student]

^cattygurl's right about that checkout shit. having a postive attitude and a smile (altho i'd feel weird if a dude were doing that shit to me) goes a long way. you will get treated better if you're remembered as a cool customer. they make going to work almost bearable (and it's always a great day when you can get a hottie to smile at you.)

[wipe my tushy]

Yeah... I usually look pretty nervous and look at the floor or fumble my change when I'm around hot checkout girls. I guess I can try to give one a big smile next time. I'm worried that this is stuff you can only get good at if you start young. Me being in my 20s, maybe its too late for me to be good at meeting new people and develop confidence (unless I'm drunk).
And I just started working out seriously 3 months ago. I've been exercising like a mofo, and you're right, it does make me feel great.

[kalbi]

PMing me, is what you need to do. And that's the last word. Try me, you probably won't regret it.

[cattygurl]

No, my ex-manager was extremely shy until he was forced into the sales department (or no job). He was in his mid-30's. He forced himself to get over his shyness... I met him in his late 40's, and he was def. not shy.

You know, start with people that you don't consider hot. The older lady at the checkout counter, for example. It's about taking steps and taking small steps that build on each other is better than trying to leap up the stairs, falling, and feeling discouraged.

It's hard to do, but don't focus on "getting" women. Focus on working on your social skills. What do you like to do? What are your hobbies? The more interests you have, the more you have to make conversation.

[cattygurl]

having a postive attitude and a smile (altho i'd feel weird if a dude were doing that shit to me) goes a long way.

I'm sure if the guy gave the vibe that he was just being friendly and making conversation- you wouldn't mind. It's the awkwardness that people present that makes the other person feel weird.

[Dialectic]

Whassup wmt, just a quick word to say that I appreciate your posting here, and I hope that one or two suggestions make some small change in your life/ state of affairs. This shit is hard, and we're all in it together.

[B the student]

I'm sure if the guy gave the vibe that he was just being friendly and making conversation- you wouldn't mind. It's the awkwardness that people present that makes the other person feel weird.

yeah, if he's being non-homoerotic about it i wouldn't mind it. hell even with the "supposed" gay customers i don't got much issue with when they smile at me. i guess i meant if it was one of those "what are you doing after work" smiles then i'd be weirded out. of course, i'm pretty dense when it comes to people coming on to me, so maybe they are flashing that kind of smile but as long as i don't read it that way we're good.

and wipe, when you do smile at a person keep it appropiate to the situation. don't walk up to some girl with a big ass grin on your face (it could make a person wonder what the hell you are on). do what's natural for you and yet appropiate to the situation.

[wipe my tushy]

Hey cattygurl... thanks for that. That was great advice. My social skills suck. Theres just something about shyness that makes things extra awkward. I'm going to try my best to improve them though, and practicing on old ladies and girls I don't think are hot sounds like a great way to go about it. I do find it harder and harder to meet new people as I get older, however, so I guess I'll be kinda limited to practicing a lot on random people at the cafeteria and checkout lines.

As for hobbies, I guess I'm a pretty boring guy. lol. Before I decided to go back to school, I had all these plans and interests... learn to play the guitar, read some interesting books, etc. Up until now I haven't had much time.


No, my ex-manager was extremely shy until he was forced into the sales department (or no job). He was in his mid-30's. He forced himself to get over his shyness... I met him in his late 40's, and he was def. not shy.

You know, start with people that you don't consider hot. The older lady at the checkout counter, for example. It's about taking steps and taking small steps that build on each other is better than trying to leap up the stairs, falling, and feeling discouraged.

It's hard to do, but don't focus on "getting" women. Focus on working on your social skills. What do you like to do? What are your hobbies? The more interests you have, the more you have to make conversation.

[wipe my tushy]

Dialectic. Thanks for your encouragement but I think some things are just a lot easier for some people than others. To anyone else who's replied, thanks for your help as well. This place is even more supportive than I thought.

[dragon]

To anyone else who's replied, thanks for your help as well. This place is even more supportive than I thought.

It's all gravy, baby! One of my missions in life is to ensure that all my peeps get laid. :wink:

[wipe my tushy]

lol. Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think I'm gonna be getting laid anytime soon unless I go to Vegas and do like they did in Better Luck Tommorow.
I recently signed up for an online dating site... emailed 10 girls... so far none have replied. Things are looking kinda bleek for this chinaman.

[dragon]

lol. Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think I'm gonna be getting laid anytime soon unless I go to Vegas and do like they did in Better Luck Tommorow.
I recently signed up for an online dating site... emailed 10 girls... so far none have replied. Things are looking kinda bleek for this chinaman.

Duuuude!!! Friggity-frack! Quit being like that! You gotta have self-esteem, man! Confidence is a major attractor...plus, you're gonna be banking soon, too! You've got nothing to worry about...trust me! All things will come to pass...

[cattygurl]

Hey,

I know this might be hard to do, but focus on enjoying YOURSELF and doing things for YOURSELF. If you say you're boring, then try to maybe pick up on some of your interests that you wanted to try in the past.

The more you focus on the other person, the more nervous and awkward you're likely to get. Focus on having fun, and try to not give a damn. You'll be more relaxed, and come across as being less needy. You'll come across as more confident.

That's one of the best things about getting to know other ppl through a common activity, because you're not just looking at each other going, Duhhhh... You have a topic to talk about.

[B the student]

that dragon dude is on point. negativity will only make things worse, while having a postive vibe increases your chances of being seen as attractive and desirable. and remember dating is a numbers game. you strike out more than you hit, but when you do connect make sure your swing is gonna send that ball out of the park. don't go up to the plate half assing it or with doubts. go up with the intention that you're going to hit a homerun (and no i don't mean score necessarily. just achieve a good relationship or whatever your goal is).

and i know all of this is just fine and dandy but it's not easy. but the less negative you are about it the better.

[dragon]

that dragon dude is on point. negativity will only make things worse, while having a postive vibe increases your chances of being seen as attractive and desirable. and remember dating is a numbers game. you strike out more than you hit, but when you do connect make sure your swing is gonna send that ball out of the park. don't go up to the plate half assing it or with doubts. go up with the intention that you're going to hit a homerun (and no i don't mean score necessarily. just achieve a good relationship or whatever your goal is).

and i know all of this is just fine and dandy but it's not easy. but the less negative you are about it the better.

^ Werd, baby! Excellent analogy! I couldn't have said it any better.

Ya ain't ever gonna get a home-run if you never get up to bat.

[wipe my tushy]

thanks guys... sorry about that. I feel better already. I should be paying you guys a psychiatrists fee.

[dragon]

thanks guys... sorry about that. I feel better already. I should be paying you guys a psychiatrists fee.

Mo' bettah! Now, go do crazy da boomsing!

[B the student]

just give it your best shot my man.

and i think cattygurl has a good point to. try to focus on just having a good time. good luck! we're cheering for ya! :D

[wipe my tushy]

Well, just a little update on my situation...
basically I still haven't found that "special someone" yet. I joined an online dating site awhile ago only to find that it wasn't very asian male friendly, so I quit. Just about all the non asian women on there and a lot of the asian select "caucasian only" in the description for the man they are looking for, so I didn't even bother trying to communicate with them. Of the remaining women, very few bothered replying to me. I went on a few dates, but nothing that led to anything.
I realize that maybe it was just meant to be this way. I can continue to whine about IR and how asian men are spit upon but it won't make a shit of difference. I'm gonna just try to think positive and appreciate how much I've been blessed in other ways. If I end up being 80 and still a bachelor with 20 cats and no kids, so be it. I just hope I learn how to cook.
I'm just going to focus on my life, work, and exercising. I might take up boxing... I watched Million Dollar Baby yesterday, and couldn't help feel a kinship to Hilary Swank's character. As the story goes, the one thing she knew growing up was that she was trash, and the one thing that made her feel good in her life was her training.

[Dialectic]

Whassup wmt,

It's only been a few months. This kind of change takes time. After ten or twenty years of living our lives in certain patterns, those patterns become set, and making what others might think is a small, insignificant move ("Just go out there and date! Get a girl! I don't even know how to be single!") is not small at all in your worldspace: it's MASSIVE change, and this stuff takes time and patience and will.

[Justin]

Stay strong. Taking up boxing as a hobby will be very good for you. 8)

[kwak76]

to wmt,

yeah take up a sport. work out. Dating for asian guys is harder but not impossible. I'm surprise that nobody every made a documentary about the diffcult for asian men to get a girl.

[B the student]

hey wipe,

don't give up. there are other avenues besides online hook ups for you to meet ladies. can I ask you a question? how did the dates go? were the ladies not your type? keep your head up, continue to think positive, and don't limit yourself. And yeah boxing will definitely be good for you. I want to start hitting the punching bag myself.

[wipe my tushy]

thanks for the encouragement guys.
As I get older and still don't have a girl, it eats at me. I wouldn't mind as much but it feels like theres no light at the end of the tunnel. What can I do though? It won't help if I drive myself crazy over this stuff. Thats my new attitude.
B, I was a little nervous on a couple of the dates but otherwise they went ok. One was going well until the girl got a little angry that I made her pay a dollar for bowling after I ran out of money...I had already dropped 50 bucks on the night. I don't know if it was because of that but she told me she wasn't interested the next day.
The other girl I met turned out to have depression and suicidal thoughts, and even though we hung out several times, I ended up spending a lot of time trying to make her feel better and trying to get her to get help. I didn't think it was right for me to continue seeing someone like that in a romantic way so I stopped it.

[redguard]

Hey man I wish you luck, let's see a happy ending here :)

[xian]

thanks for the encouragement guys.
As I get older and still don't have a girl, it eats at me. I wouldn't mind as much but it feels like theres no light at the end of the tunnel. What can I do though? It won't help if I drive myself crazy over this stuff. Thats my new attitude.
B, I was a little nervous on a couple of the dates but otherwise they went ok. One was going well until the girl got a little angry that I made her pay a dollar for bowling after I ran out of money...I had already dropped 50 bucks on the night. I don't know if it was because of that but she told me she wasn't interested the next day.
The other girl I met turned out to have depression and suicidal thoughts, and even though we hung out several times, I ended up spending a lot of time trying to make her feel better and trying to get her to get help. I didn't think it was right for me to continue seeing someone like that in a romantic way so I stopped it.

I'm not sure how to address you--it's weird to call you by your screenname ;)

Anyway, don't despair--meeting the right person is often something that blindsides you out of the blue. The important thing is rather than despairing, to have faith and use the waiting time to improve yourself. That way when you find someone amazing, you have the skills to make a great relationship together.

With the first example, that's nothing to despair over. I imagine that the person had no perspective and thought it was not cool to run out of money, but didn't think about the money you had spent. In my book, it's another reason to not assume bullshit gender roles about spending. (When I've been working and the person I'm dating was in school, I paid most of the time, but it was the opposite when I was in school and the woman working. Usually, we just split it.) When I see people who believe in this shit, I usually run screaming in the opposite direction (but you need to decide what's best for you).

In the second case, if you didn't think you were up to it, it was smart to get out. You do no one any favors by getting in deeper than you can handle. But don't forget that once you are looking for a long-term relationship that what makes a good relationship is how well you suppport each other when things are difficult. After all, anyone can be good in a relationship when everything is fine.

[wipe my tushy]

I'm not sure how to address you--it's weird to call you by your screenname ;)

Anyway, don't despair--meeting the right person is often something that blindsides you out of the blue. The important thing is rather than despairing, to have faith and use the waiting time to improve yourself. That way when you find someone amazing, you have the skills to make a great relationship together.

With the first example, that's nothing to despair over. I imagine that the person had no perspective and thought it was not cool to run out of money, but didn't think about the money you had spent. In my book, it's another reason to not assume bullshit gender roles about spending. (When I've been working and the person I'm dating was in school, I paid most of the time, but it was the opposite when I was in school and the woman working. Usually, we just split it.) When I see people who believe in this shit, I usually run screaming in the opposite direction (but you need to decide what's best for you).

In the second case, if you didn't think you were up to it, it was smart to get out. You do no one any favors by getting in deeper than you can handle. But don't forget that once you are looking for a long-term relationship that what makes a good relationship is how well you suppport each other when things are difficult. After all, anyone can be good in a relationship when everything is fine.

thanks Xian. I feel a lot better after reading your post. Hopefully, it will hit me out of the blue sometime soon. I hope that theory holds true for asian men who don't look like models, cuz I ain't resorting to that winston wu shit. About the second girl, she would say too much freaky stuff and I couldn't deal with it. Like one time, she asked to hangout but I had work that day, so I said how about next week, and she replied "I'll be gone by then". She said things like that almost every week. She also would say stuff like "why didn't you take advantage of me like all the other guys do? sex is the only thing that makes me feel good." It also didn't help that my trying to make her feel better or to get help always seemed to make her more unstable. I feel kinda guilty that I didn't help her more and we still keep in contact but I can't get into a relationship with someone like that.

[toml]

WMT,

Is there anything you can do on the outside that might make you feel more attractive? (and thus, perhaps boost your condifence?)

Like getting a new haircut, clothes, working out, etc.?

As shallow as it sounds, when you look good, you'll feel good as well.

And it doesn't cost much to get a makeover (that is, if you need one).


I'm not that familiar with dating sites, but perhaps you could try different ones? I've heard (ok, I've only seen the commercials!) for eHarmony.com and they seem to do things a bit different).

I remember reading awhile back there was this Asian guy (not Girth N Length) who went on 50+ dates from this dating site and finally found the woman he would marry. I think some publication, or maybe just salon.com, wrote about it.

But yeah, he went on 50+ dates!


Also, another tip: Why not join some kind of activity group where you can do something you like and also potentially meet people. Volunteer at an animal shelter or whatever you like to do.



Oh, and are you simply looking for fun (i.e. getting some action) or are you actually looking for love?

[eskargot]

WMT

I sincerely feel for you. Getting a date can be a difficult process depending on your situation. It seems the two perpetual things for you are shyness and lack of fine girls that you know personally; unfortunately without conquering both you're going to have a hard time finding a girlfriend. While there are some girls who will probably give you less notice as an "Asian" male, there are also (believe it or not) those who will.

As far as I can gather, your shyness seem to be partly tied in with your physical appearance and I doubt no amount of reassurance that you're not ugly is going to completely get rid of that. Maybe it will help your confidence if you did go for a new "image"... kinda like what toml suggested. A different haircut/ contact lenses/ new clothes, perhaps it can act as a metaphor for a new start both socially and mentally, leaving behind all the emotional baggage.

I do hesitate to recommend this, but I suppose no harm can come from it
http://www.aznlover.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=5
you may find some of the discussions on style helpful.

I know it's going to be hard to completely shake off the shyness but the fact is that many women want someone who is confident because often they have enough insecurities of their own. I've lost count how many times I've seen a nice girl go out with an ar*ehole just because she's worried that she ain't good enough. From personal experience, the way to impress a girl is to just talk to her and show her that you're interested in what she says. If you're worried that she finds conversation boring, just ask her questions about herself, I'm sure she'll have a lot to say then. Also eye contact is essential, even if you're not trying to chat someone up. Too little you'll seem disinterested and too much you'll seem insane. Generally speaking when they're talking make sure you make some measure of eye-contact but keep it to no more than a few seconds; I know it sounds too scientific but that's the way it is.

[wipe my tushy]

yeah... thanks you two. I'm in the middle of a makeover already, actually. I've been working out a lot the past 6 months or so, and lost 25 lbs in that time (187 -> 160 lbs). Already wear contacts, and get hair cuts every 3 weeks or so. I do need more and better clothes but I'm working on that. I personally think that I feel and look better but still, I don't know how much all of this will help. I've seen girls just be all over some guys, but it seems I never get signals like that. Hell, my internet dating profile is like the gobi desert, and its not like girls can read my lack of confidence or personality or anything besides looks thru there, so I'm assuming thats the problem. My therapist told me that I look average, and maybe its because all the women on those dating sites are looking for Tom Cruise. Then again, being a nice Jamaican lady, it doesn't surprise me that she can relate to what asian men deal with b/c of the white standards of beauty.
Another problem (and I don't mind revealing this because its an anonymous forum) is that I have burn scars on part of my body from years ago. I think my first girlfriend was kinda turned off by them... she dumped me the day after discovering them... maybe it was a coincidence...
its like I'm fucked either way... I can't get a girl, and even if I do, she will probably be turned off by my ugly scars.

[vsoy]

Tushy,
I'm really sorry about your burn scars, it must have been a painful event with long lasting effects on your self image. I hope they have healed and do not cause you ill health. When we're young, we get freaked out by things like scars and it is really unfortunate that your first gf was not more accepting of your scars.
Think of your scars as badges of honor and identification marks for your gf when she's groping you in the dark :D It's probably a good screen for the superficial. If someone really cares about you, they'll accept you warts and all. It sounds like you're taking defined steps to feeling better about yourself and finding someone special and it shows a positive attitude and hope. Make time for a hobby and find a group to join, be open to new people at work setting or at home, you never know when you'll find that someone special.

[toml]

WMT

I have another question. In your quest of finding a long-term gf (I'm assuming this is what you're trying to do, not just a fling, right?) are you overlooking certain types of girls as well?

Are you judging them based on their appearances and your own notion of the white-standard of beauty?

Also--and please forgive me for being cruel--your constant self-doubts/loathing can be a real turn off. Sure, we all get nervous and we all doubt ourselves from time to time, but constantly doubting yourself will subconsciously (or very consciously) affect the way you interact with people.

It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You feel that you're not worthy and so when you meet someone, you will act a certain way that will sabotage yourself.

I know this sounds corny, but you have to love yourself first before you can get other's to love you back.

Here's a really good book called "Your Erroneous Zones by Dr. Wayne Dyer" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061091480/104-1886479-8434316)

The one line summary: If you're plagued by guilt or worry and find yourself falling unwittingly into the same old self-destructive patterns, then you have "erroneous zones" -- whole facets of your approach to life that act as barriers to your success and happiness.


It's a pretty good and insightful book. I strongly encourage you to read it.

[ric]

I think my first girlfriend was kinda turned off by them... she dumped me the day after discovering them... maybe it was a coincidence...
its like I'm fucked either way... I can't get a girl, and even if I do, she will probably be turned off by my ugly scars.


Tush,

Thats BS. Girls I know think thats hot. If it's on your body thats even better

WHY?

It shows that you can actually get down and dirty. Also it's a sign of having some life experience. I think the girls you have been seeing are just that ...girls... find a real woman

good luck

[kwak76]

hey wmt,
You and I are some what in the same boat. Dating and self-esteem issues was always a problem for me.
I got a couple question and I don't know if you answered them already.
Where do you live? I mean are you looking for a asian girl or just any girl because location does matter if your trying to find an asian girl.

Have you tried to join some sort of club? Church, non-profit groups?
Describe how you look? Unless you did this already.
You said you have burned scars. I don't think that would turn girls off. I mean usually women look at the whole package. So it could be something else.
Confidence is the biggest turn on for a women. But I think that is the hardest to develop.
You may have to work on yourself for awhile before you hit up on a girl.
Like developing yourself. I really recommend that you take a vacation or move to a new location. A new place will have an impact in how you see yourself and the world.

[da Tao]

Hey wmt, whassup man!

I have to say that you have started and that's good! (I could not get myself to workout regularly - the closest I have done was circuit training, 2 times a week for 2.5 months)

Lots of different angles have been brought up here - so if you don't mind I will be a bit slack with the organization.

The self-improvement aspects: Boxing is cool, but if you let me choose for you, I would say social dancing. First, no need to panic because you are 'just' learning movements... but if you look closer, there are many benefits: you come into close contact with strangers who are learning too - since they rotate couples (you can sign up for ones that don't need you go with a partner), you gain confidence as you grasp a new skill (it's really not hard), you learn body language, chance for chit-chat, the list goes on and on. Dancing is a BIG bonus. I am sad that I never kept up with it - but I do intend to go back.

Another thing that you can try is a pact - like vowing to ask out girls once a week, or else you get 'punished' by doing something that is beneficial but somewhat hard... like breaking bad habits. I myself could use a "a set of push-ups and sit-ups once a day or else I have to a grad school application" I couldn't find anyone to hold me to it though, and my self-discipline is actually quite weak unless I ingrain myself into a collective group.

I have more to think about, like the $1 bowling thing and the prospective partner thing. But this post is somewhat shallow I'd admit, will get back soon. (2:26AM and cold and MSN conversation is not a good mix.)

[vsoy]

The self-improvement aspects: Boxing is cool, but if you let me choose for you, I would say social dancing. First, no need to panic because you are 'just' learning movements... but if you look closer, there are many benefits: you come into close contact with strangers who are learning too - since they rotate couples (you can sign up for ones that don't need you go with a partner), you gain confidence as you grasp a new skill (it's really not hard), you learn body language, chance for chit-chat, the list goes on and on. Dancing is a BIG bonus.

May I suggest salsa dancing? Girls love to dance and there's nothing sexier than a dude who can dance (or willing to dance). Even though I like to open my own doors and take out the trash, when a guy is a good dancer and he leads, I just *swoon*

I don't know how many times I've seen/heard my girlfriends pulling teeth with their bf to go dancing at a party or club. At a small party with music, invariably, there will be 10 girls dancing in a circle and no guys and if one guy drinks enough beers and starts dancing, all the girls dance with him. da Tao's suggestion is excellent!

[JadeDragon]

I agree with Da Tao and Vsoy; salsa dancing is a good way to improve your self-confidence and meet new people. A male friend of mine, who used to be pretty shy and over-compensated by acting like a "playa", signed up for salsa classes about six months ago. There are way more women than men in his class, so he has to dance with all of the ladies every time he goes. His self-confidence has improved, he's a lot less nervous around women, and the ladies in his class just ADORE him because he's really sweet and lovely once he stops putting up a "cool" front.

(Keep in mind, though, that he didn't sign up for the classes just to meet women; many of them are either already married and/or have boyfriends. But the classes helped him lose his self-consciousness, and become happier with himself as an individual, so he doesn't worry as much about getting a girlfriend as he used to.)

[inferno]

A male friend of mine, who used to be pretty shy and over-compensated by acting like a "playa", signed up for salsa classes about six months ago. There are way more women than men in his class, so he has to dance with all of the ladies every time he goes. His self-confidence has improved, he's a lot less nervous around women, and the ladies in his class just ADORE him because he's really sweet and lovely once he stops putting up a "cool" front.

What was your friend's success rate with the ladies before he signed up for salsa classes then, JD?

[JadeDragon]

Frankly, he didn't do well at all. It wasn't him, per se, but rather the "playa" persona he used to try to impress women. It just felt off. I was actually on the receiving end of his schtick at one time, before he became my friend, and it irritated the hell out of me because it really wasn't him at all.

But as his self-confidence improved, he actually became less in-your-face and was more natural. He also placed less emphasis on trying to impress women/get a girlfriend, and this, I believe, made him more attractive because he was finally just being himself.

[inferno]

But as his self-confidence improved, he actually became less in-your-face and was more natural. He also placed less emphasis on trying to impress women/get a girlfriend, and this, I believe, made him more attractive because he was finally just being himself.
More natural and less in-your-face is are definitely good traits for a man to have when dealing with the ladies. Would you say that his success rate went up noticeably after his self-confidence improved? I suppose that what I am asking you is whether women are more interested in him sexually rather than as a friend after his mental makeover. What I am also interested to know is how he managed to become your friend after giving you the urge to poke out his eyeballs with a sharp yet rusty object. :smile:

[JadeDragon]

Yeah, I'd say that women became more noticeably interested in him sexually after he grew more confident. In fact, a really hot woman from his class, about five years older than him, asked him out some time ago. But I'll also have to mention that he is a complete gentleman (albeit old-fashioned at times) when it comes to the ladies, and truly respects them as individuals and not just sexual conquests, which is pretty much a huge advantage in his favour, and it shows clearly in his dealings with them.

I've known him for more than three years now, and at first, I did think that he was a poseur, but I gave him another chance because my instincts (and that I've trained myself to "read" people) told me that there was a lot more to him than that facade. We're just friends, though, because he really isn't my type.

[inferno]

Yeah, I'd say that women became more noticeably interested in him sexually after he grew more confident.
As was to be expected. Confidence is one of those qualities that allows a man to ascend to that next level. It would not be entirely inaccurate to consider it an aphrodesiac.

In fact, a really hot woman from his class, about five years older than him, asked him out some time ago. But I'll also have to mention that he is a complete gentleman (albeit old-fashioned at times) when it comes to the ladies, and truly respects them as individuals and not just sexual conquests, which is pretty much a huge advantage in his favour, and it shows clearly in his dealings with them.
Well, depending on your friend's age, say he has reached his Autumn years, if the lady is 5 years older than he is then she would appreciate his old-fashioned gentlemanliness. But how exactly should I interpret your desciption of his behaviour then, JD? Does "old-fashioned" encompass preceding the lady in ascending stairs, raising his hat when meeting female acquaintances, opening the door for her, lay down his coat in a puddle of water to keep the lady's shoes dry, etc?

I've known him for more than three years now, and at first, I did think that he was a poseur, but I gave him another chance because my instincts (and that I've trained myself to "read" people) told me that there was a lot more to him than that facade. We're just friends, though, because he really isn't my type.
On the other hand, and I am being serious, it could be that if you had met him now, things would have been different. Have you ever toyed with that idea, JD?

[JadeDragon]

Well, depending on your friend's age, say he has reached his Autumn years, if the lady is 5 years older than he is then she would appreciate his old-fashioned gentlemanliness. But how exactly should I interpret your desciption of his behaviour then, JD? Does "old-fashioned" encompass preceding the lady in ascending stairs, raising his hat when meeting female acquaintances, opening the door for her, lay down his coat in a puddle of water to keep the lady's shoes dry, etc?

He's 25 now; and when I say "old-fashioned", I meant that he has traditional ideas of how a man should treat a woman, in comparison to the other "less gentlemanly" guys I know. For example, he does respect women who work for a living, but his ideal situation would be one where the man would be the sole breadwinner while his wife stayed at home to look after the kids. He also does some of those little things you've mentioned, like holding the door open for women, insisting on paying for a meal, and escorting them at night even though he doesn't have to. Now, I'm NOT saying that his ideas are wrong, but they are decidedly "old-fashioned" in comparison to those of his peers. That's probably why he seems to be popular with older women.

On the other hand, and I am being serious, it could be that if you had met him now, things would have been different. Have you ever toyed with that idea, JD?

Actually, no. He and I still clash on a lot of socio-political issues, despite our being friends, and although I do appreciate "old-fashioned" gestures, I prefer to do things on my own unless I truly needed help. I'd probably have throttled him after a week! :lol:

[eskargot]

WMT

It's good to hear some of the progress that you've made, although it's pretty bad that this girl was immature enough to let scars ruin everything (if that was the reason). You should take heart from the fact that some girls dig scars; just tell any girl that you got them from saving a baby from a burning building (even better if it's true).

My last tip of the day, and I know it's corny, is that you've got to learn to be happy with who you are. The easiest way is to concentrate on the things that you're good at, compliment yourself (in your head, and when no ones around). The fact is that convincing yourself that you're worthless begins to make you feel that way. By the same argument, telling yourself that you're great and rule will eventually make you feel better; just don't go on a 2 hour rant to some girl about how cool you are or anything.

I remember trying a similar tactic with my friends whenever we went out. We would continually tell the others how great they were. Eventually it started to sink in abit and our confidence around girls increased.

It's the power of suggestion...

[wipe my tushy]

Thanks for the tips and encouragement everyone. I do really appreciate it. I will definitely look into dancing or some other type of club, its just that I've been so busy with work and school. One of my friends is actually a dance instructor so maybe I will just go to a few of his classes. I've always admired dancers... they justt express themselves confidently and don't give a shit what people think... probably why they are good with the ladies. About my scars, I don't think they are attractive at all and I don't think any women would either. Oh well. like the title of the Nas song, life's a bitch... but I will try to be more positive and focus on what I've been blessed with... and I am thankful for a lot of stuff but I feel screwed in this one area.
Kwak, I live in NYC. We're kinda in the same boat, except you're pretty good looking. I don't know how to describe my looks but I don't think I'm attractive. I could show you my pic but you guys would probably automatically tell me I look all right to cheer me up. Toml, I'm looking for action and love but I'd much prefer love. Also, I haven't really judged women on the white std of beauty. I actually messaged mostly asian ladies when I was using that dating site, but not one bothered replying to me. As for confidence, I wished I had it. Maybe I think too much... I wished I could believe that I was the shit even if I wasn't. I don't want to make excuses but people learn by positive reinforcement and I haven't really gotten much in my life.

[Dialectic]

I think a couple of y'all NY44s need another Karaoke night!

[Scowl]

I think a couple of y'all NY44s need another Karaoke night!

I don't think that watching me get drunk and then fucking up songs from the 80s is gonna help wipe much.

But hey, man, if you're up for it, we can see who's down for another meet.

[kwak76]

to wmt, thanks for you comment. I wish more girls would think I was good looking. Trust me I usually get ignored from girls or just get a cold shoulder. But it doesn't stop me from living or getting out.
I don't know if you want any girl or prefer an asian girl.

I think if you just want any girl it maybe easier since there are more non-asian girls around but if you like me who wants an asian girl it will be an uphill battle. If you want an asian girl I recommend going to place with high asian concentration. maybe an asian party or club. It is easier to meet girls through friends and family but if you don't have that avenue my recommendation is church . Yes, church. The catch is that if you meet a chirsten asian girl they pretty much are looking for a godly guy but the folks at chinese or korean churches are pretty friendly.

You have to makes friends first before you could make a girlfriend.

I think in due time the NYC sleeper cell should have another meeting because I think scrowl and the othe crew got to discuss about the publicasian.org or .com site.

[wipe my tushy]

to wmt, thanks for you comment. I wish more girls would think I was good looking. Trust me I usually get ignored from girls or just get a cold shoulder. But it doesn't stop me from living or getting out.
I don't know if you want any girl or prefer an asian girl.

I think if you just want any girl it maybe easier since there are more non-asian girls around but if you like me who wants an asian girl it will be an uphill battle. If you want an asian girl I recommend going to place with high asian concentration. maybe an asian party or club. It is easier to meet girls through friends and family but if you don't have that avenue my recommendation is church . Yes, church. The catch is that if you meet a chirsten asian girl they pretty much are looking for a godly guy but the folks at chinese or korean churches are pretty friendly.

You have to makes friends first before you could make a girlfriend.

I think in due time the NYC sleeper cell should have another meeting because I think scrowl and the othe crew got to discuss about the publicasian.org or .com site.

Well, thats a good thing that it doesn't stop you from living your life. Coincidentally, after much self-torture and torment, I also want my new attitude to just be like 'fuck it'. I don't want to care what people think anymore. I want to not care if a girl rejects me cuz I'm asian, or thinks I'm some desperate asian geek like the one in fargo. cuz its not my fault, its the system. fuck em.
I'm almost 27 years old, I just want to enjoy my life before I get old. I'm just gonna continue to workout like a mofo, work on my social graces, sense of humor, etc. Not like I can do much else.
In terms of preference, I used to only want to be with asian women, but now I try to select based on the individual rather than the race.
I've been to asian parties every now and then with my friends. They are usually pretty wack in terms of the numbers of available women. I used to go to church but I don't want to go to an asian church for the sole purpose of picking up women. Coincidentally, a lot of my self-esteem issues are probably related to my old church where back in junior high, my sunday school teacher and one of the trust-fund college kids called me ugly.