Getting to know America better

[blue-kun]

Perhaps my position with regard to other 44s is quite unique. I was born and raised in Korea, and although I think I've become `Americanized' quite a bit during the last 7 years I've lived in the US, I still see my frame of thinking to be largely that of native South Koreans.

It's an intriguing experience. The values that I carried over from Korea don't exactly go hand in hand with American values. Sometimes I make a statement to my American friends, and they are taken aback, and sometime even offended -- when I certainly didn't mean to.

The magnitude of problem gets amplified especially when it comes to discussing sensitive topics -- politic, religious, or social. The exact cause varies from case to case. Sometimes it's just a conflicting POV that stems from different ideological background. Sometimes it's the lack of background knowledge about certain social issues that they take as granted but I don't even know about, and vice versa.

As I became more active in various discussions here, I also became more concerned that this type of thing might happen. The thing is, I'm ready to be `broken' -- I know I have to adopt American values and strike a nice balance between them and my Korean values, and that means I have to be ready to be corrected, and I am ready for that. (Actually it was part of a reason I joined 44s. Some of you might remember that from my first post in Introlude.)

________

Now, here's why I'm making this thread.

The situation I mentioned above will most probably happen to other 1st and 1.5th generation immigrants like me as well, should they spot 44s and decide to join it. And I seriously hope more of them would join 44s, because, being AA `seeds,' they are well within our target audience, and IMO are as important as 2nd and further generationers.

So, you may take this as a group PSA, a sincere request, from me speaking as a `1.1st.'

Please be receptive to us. We know we have to adjust and adapt ourselves, and we are ready to. If we exhibit ignorance, apathy, or conflicting POVs that go against American values, please point that out. We will take that as a crucial, constructive criticism.

But no, please do not shut the conversation off saying `You come from a way different background, there aren't much we can talk about.' I know some of the ignorance or apathy we might exhibit will offend some of you, but please look beyond your emotions, think about what different background of ours might be pissing you off, and point that out. Please give us a second chance. We will deeply appreciate that.

Eugene

[Dialectic]

Thanks for sharing your concerns with us, Blue.

I don't see this problem really happening here, as most 44s are down with 1.5s (or 1.25s), and besides if we see any anti-FOB bullshit happening here, we come down on it right quick.

[blue-kun]

D: Thanks for the reply.

The thing is, it's not a visible or otherwise noticeable problem.

Even when someone openly attacks us for being a FOB, that is still a communication. When that happens, we can still try and minimize the gap between him/her and us.

The real problem is when someone gets pissed off about what we said, murmurs `Whatever, he's a FOB, he'll learn one day' and zips his mouth. That could also be because he doesn't want to start a flame war with someone he knows `will learn better' one day, and backs down. Or because he/she doesn't want to be seen as a FOB basher, something apparently unwelcomed here.

These don't really help us. We need whatever negative feedback we deserve.

We're not asking `Please don't attack us, we're FOBs! Have mercy!'

We're asking `Please feel free to correct us (in a nicer, more patient way if you would). But no, please don't shut the communication off. We need your feedback.'

Eugene

[B the student]

and don't worry too much about adopting "American" values. It's good to be familiar with the ideals that are associated with this country, but be aware that many people value them differently. Even such basic values as Freedom and Equality are viewed differently. plus not all "american" values are worth adopting, hypocrisy and greed come to mind (but then again some wouldn't admit that those are american values). and like Master D said, that shouldn't be a problem here.

I am curious though, if you wouldn't mind sharing an experience you've had in dealing with conflicts in values. it's cool if you don't want to, but i'd like to see what your american friends found so offensive. i think you're a pretty cool, open-minded individual, so i find it interesting you were able to come off as offensive.

[blue-kun]

and don't worry too much about adopting "American" values. It's good to be familiar with the ideals that are associated with this country, but be aware that many people value them differently. Even such basic values as Freedom and Equality are viewed differently. plus not all "american" values are worth adopting, hypocrisy and greed come to mind (but then again some wouldn't admit that those are american values). and like Master D said, that shouldn't be a problem here.
Thanks for the advice. Yes, that also baffled me from time to time -- people holding quite different views about what value should be upheld and whatnot. It's quite a fresh surprise for me, because Korea has a largely homogeneous culture. And no, I'm not abandoning my Korean values altogether. I'll have to select what I deem valuable from both cultures and integrate the selections into my own value system.

I am curious though, if you wouldn't mind sharing an experience you've had in dealing with conflicts in values. it's cool if you don't want to, but i'd like to see what your american friends found so offensive. i think you're a pretty cool, open-minded individual, so i find it interesting you were able to come off as offensive.
All sorts of different things that stem from a value held highly in one country but not in the other. Privacy is one good example. Koreans have considerably lower awareness of privacy than Americans.

When I was living in SoCal with my aunt, her daughter (my cousin) used to hang out with me quite often. She was raised in America. Although my aunt and uncle were both Korean, they wanted to raise their daughters in the American way. So my cousin didn't have much chance of social intercourse with other Koreans, and her lines of thinking were unmistakably that of typical Americans. However, she did appreciate her Korean heritage and tried to form a bond with it.

Now, when we went out for a dinner or something like that, being a `NuNa' -- an older sis -- she wouldn't let me pay for myself. She would say `You aren't making money yet, but I do, and I'm your NuNa, so it's on me. :D' It was okay for a couple of times, but eventually I started to feel bad about it, and brought up the issue to my mom (who was back in Korea). She suggested wire-transferring some money to her bank account, and she asked her sister -- my aunt -- for the bank account number, and my aunt gave it to my mom, who in turn gave it to me. I transferred some money that I thought my cousin spent for me into her account.

Boy, she got ANGRY. Not because I transferred the money, but because her bank account number was divulged to someone she didn't authorize. She knew I didn't mean to do anything bad, but she still took it seriously and scolded me about it.

Eugene

[blue-kun]

Hey Blue Kun, can I ask what year you were born in? And which part of Korea are u from?

I am in a halfway similar situation as you. I was born here, lived here my whole life, then went to Korea during 2002-2003. I got to understand koreans very well, and then it took me about a year to adjust when I got back. I'm still not fully adjusted, but dont worry I was one of the kyopos that was trying to bring back old school values when I was there. My dads from Busan, my moms from Seoul.

Its weird because, I can feel myself fighting my American values from taking over again, but I want to stay Korean. I get random headaches often. At the same time, I know how the korean american community is and everything and how its going towards american values, and needs more 1.5 generation to anchor it.

anyways. I say some weird stuff on other threads... very few kyopos think that way, so don't think weirdly of us. LOLZ. Its in my personality to be a 협객...

btw, Ill try to help you out in those subtle ways ur talking about. but you don't want to be associated wit me dood. I take very very radical approaches, and it would just make your adjustment to the US even more difficult... so just ignore my posts that you think are rather strange for a korean to have.
Haha, thanks for the offer. Glad to know someone actually shares my feelings.

I was born in 1975. (Soon to turn 30. :D) Originally born in Busan, but my family moved to Seoul when I was 3 and I grew up in Seoul until 17, when I went to a college (KAIST) in Daejeon and spent 4 years there. Yes, I was a nerdy kid. :lol: I moved to the states as soon as I finished the college (I had obtained the green card in my senior year of college).

Eugene

[bluejives]

A KAIST man in the house!

For those of you unfamiliar with what KAIST is, the best way to describe it would be roughly that it is the MIT of Korea. I feel like the collective IQ of this joint surged about 20 points just from this alone. :D

I know exactly what you're talking about when you spoke of unintended offenses happening between a Korean and an American due to culture shocks. It happens with me also and I've lived in the US since I was 5. For example, I was on business as a consultant and I addressed a white female client as Ma'am. I think she was in her 40s but she looked like the type who does aerobics alot and tries to keep fit. Well I could tell by the look on her face that she didnt like being called Ma'am. Why? Because she didn't like being reminded of her age. Ma'am is something you call an old lady. Americans like to think that they are forever young and furthermore some white women can be very vain. Its easy for a Korean to make a mistake like this because in our Confucian influenced culture, elders are supposed to be respected and addressed properly according to the age based heirarchy that we adhere to. Thus you refer to that girl as Nuna, 3KKK is your dong-saeng, and I'm your Hyung. :D

Funny thing about America is that Americans expect someone like you, who clearly hasnt lived in the West all that long, to somehow know every there is about being American. And if you commit a social gaffe, unintentionally, due to some cultural unfamiliarity or clash, then they absolutely do not hesitate to let you know that you fucked up. Contrast this with the way Americans are treated in Korea. Koreans know through freaking common sense that an American would mostly likely not know certain Korean customs and ways. Therefore if an American does something stupid like walk into the house with his shoes on, then he is politely told that in Korea you're supposed to take your shoes off indoors.

Now as far as Korean-Americans are concerned, they really ought to know better than to get mindlessly offended or angry at a Korean for such things. I dont care how Americanized that chick was, if she grew up in a Korean family then she should have some freaking intuitive korean understanding (Noon-chi), the stupid twinkie bitch. :wink:

BTW, if you happened to go out with an American chick, if she's an animal lover you had better become an instant animal lover youself if you arent one already. Regardless, dont ever talk about having tortured animals in your disturbed youth or that you ate bo-shing-tang or something. Thats a huge no-no, trust me.

[ryu]

Over the last 10 years since I moved from Korea, I have come to a definitive realization that this "American values or code of conduct" we immigrants often get lectured on doesnt exist. By this, I mean, in the Western world (Canada and US) sociocultural values are so dynamic and fragmented that there isnt a unified concensus.
I have visited various parts of North America, and everywhere I've been this "code of conduct" varies based on mixed array of regional, religious, and political ideologies. For example, a white American from Taxas will most likely have a different perspective on America value system from that of a African American from LA or New York. Nontheless, both individual will confidently state that they are well knowledged of this social code/value system. Furthermore, they would most definitely point to our justified confusion on this issue to either language barrier or/and cultural ignorance. I, personally, have given up this attemp to become knowledgeable in the western values.

[blockthebox]

When I was living in SoCal with my aunt, her daughter (my cousin) used to hang out with me quite often. She was raised in America. Although my aunt and uncle were both Korean, they wanted to raise their daughters in the American way. So my cousin didn't have much chance of social intercourse with other Koreans, and her lines of thinking were unmistakably that of typical Americans. However, she did appreciate her Korean heritage and tried to form a bond with it.

Now, when we went out for a dinner or something like that, being a `NuNa' -- an older sis -- she wouldn't let me pay for myself. She would say `You aren't making money yet, but I do, and I'm your NuNa, so it's on me. ' It was okay for a couple of times, but eventually I started to feel bad about it, and brought up the issue to my mom (who was back in Korea). She suggested wire-transferring some money to her bank account, and she asked her sister -- my aunt -- for the bank account number, and my aunt gave it to my mom, who in turn gave it to me. I transferred some money that I thought my cousin spent for me into her account.

Boy, she got ANGRY. Not because I transferred the money, but because her bank account number was divulged to someone she didn't authorize. She knew I didn't mean to do anything bad, but she still took it seriously and scolded me about it.


Ha! You certainly went out of your way to pay her back. Yeah, I've had some great noonas* who've bought me meals and booze when I had no money. What I usually do is get them a gift they'll like. They appreciate the gesture and there's no fear of bank account numbers floating around.

Also, I agree that there's no hard and fast code of conduct or set of values. Certain things are probably true across the board. Privacy is probably something that most Americans value. I know that for me, it's a biggie. But then again, I'm pretty paranoid.

But don't sweat it. You seem like a good guy and most people - American or not - appreciate that.

*Edit: I guess to me they'd be unees, eh?

[Dialectic]

Ryu's a good guy. Me and Lopan pulled a reveal with him and everything. Still didn't introduce us to that chick though :P

[ryu]

ahhh, Yes! I forgot about the girls... I apologize for my broken promiss that night and I will most definitely work on my social networking for our future outings, Dialectic and Lopan. :D

[Dialectic]

Ha ha, appreciate the consideration ryu! Y'all should've seen him; this hot artsy chick comes up to him with a big hug and a smile (we were at an Art student/ b-boy gallery showing thing), and he immediately takes her off to the bar and me and Lopes are left their standing going "Whaaaa? But ... but we pulled a reveal!"

[The Ram]

Ha ha, appreciate the consideration ryu! Y'all should've seen him; this hot artsy chick comes up to him with a big hug and a smile (we were at an Art student/ b-boy gallery showing thing), and he immediately takes her off to the bar and me and Lopes are left their standing going "Whaaaa? But ... but we pulled a reveal!"

damn Ryu is a fucking P I M P.

good work!