dilemma concerning physical growth

[B the student]

i have a conflict which has been on my mind for some time. i work out usually four or five times a week (i try to do it everyday, but somehow i manage to miss a day or two). I try to spend as much of my free time in the pursuit of growing strong and looking good. The thing is i've noticed that my academic career could be suffering from the focus i put into achieving this goal. I've just lost a lot of interest in maintaining my 4.0. Almost everyday I'm more concerned about whether i can fit working out into my schedule over what i should be doing to keep my grades up. But I've become somewhat concerned that I may be too extreme in trying to reach my goal, and that i may regret later down the road the sacrifices i'm making to try to grow physically.

I don't know, I guess i lost the thrill i had freshman year in performing well. Honestly, grades were never a huge issue to me back in high school (until i needed to beef them up for college). Then when i scored a 4.0 my first semester i wanted to see if i could keep it up. I thought (and still do think) it would be crazy cool to go out with all A's. My parents aren't too pushy about grades altho i was trying to see if i could do better than my step dad who had 3.8 something. But now my interest has changed. I'm very excited with working out because I can actually see the results. I used to be hella-scrawny, now i'm sorta scrawny (i shake my head now and wonder how i went so long being so skinny without doing much about it). Unlike school, where most of what i learn gets flushed out after each semester, working out provides results that i can physically appreciate. Plus, i feel it's more challenging in that it demands discipline, a quality i severerly lack. And i also feel that it is one of the keys to me gaining more confidence in myself.

At the same time, however, i'm concerned that maybe i have my priorities mixed up. That I'm not paying enough attention to my academic career, and that in the end i'll end up cursing myself for making the decision to accept lower grades for better physical results. I know there are quite a few members on here that work out regularly, and I was wondering if they have any advice or can share their experiences of how they fit working out into their daily lives. I'd appreciate it.

~B the Student

[kalbi]

Just as I had suspected. Typical neurotic, over-analyzing Asian kid.


B, I think it's pretty damn cool that you are very smart. To pull off 4.0s continually in college is no big feat. But I really think that you shoudl diversify yourself a bit. Having a 3.8 GPA and a range of extra-curricular activities or a 3.8 and a BANGIN' BOD is not a bad trade-off. People are not impressed by men that fit their mold - it makes them AVERAGE. No one really is impressed by a black man that is a gangbanger - it ust fits their racial stereotype to a T. Same with an Asian nerd with the perfect GPA, or a white slob armchair quarterback.


So do yourself a favor and defy all stereotypes. Become an outgoing, strong, athletic, AM college boy with a B here and there on his report card! Trust me - it won't kill you. :wink:

[B the student]

thanks for the advice kalbi.

i wish it applied to me but i'm not trying to defy any racial stereotypes (i don't know if there are any that apply to me now that i think about it). i'm trying to improve myself as a whole, and the physical/social area is one of my weaker points. i'm pretty sure i've mentioned before that i'm a non-asian mix, but it's all cool. If there's one thing i most certainly do not doubt about you is your passionate desire to help AMs out. thanks again for trying to help me out though.

~B the student

[kalbi]

Just curious - what brings you to the 44s if you're non-Asian? I'm not asking you to leave, or anything btw.

[Dialectic]

B, I went through this, ZhaoGao went (and still is going) through this, this is a natural phase of development for anyone who seriously commits to working out at the gym.

I specify "working out at the gym" as well because that has its own special set of issues: if you're really into, I don't know, squash for example, and you really really love it, then you focus on getting in good cardiovascular shape and getting good at squash. There's really no aesthetics there. Lifting weights not only involves fitness and physicality, but also self-image, public image, and can much more easily lead to "addiction" than a love of squash can (most other athletic pursuits only lead to obssession at near-professional levels).

Back in highschool, I worked out 6 or 7 days a week. In college it dropped to 4-ish. Right now (I'm working), I try to keep it at 3-4 but it's more difficult. So I understand that to keep it at five, you have to deliberately sacrifice other things.

From the way you described things, you should keep this up as long as you feel you enjoy it, provided your grades don't slip too low, and also provided you don't become obssessed over how you look or how much you can lift or how big you're getting (ZG has, in my opinion, a problem with this. He's pretty big.).

I say this for a few reasons:

1) Physical discipline is good, exercise is good for you, and a attractive body can't hurt you, especially if you grew up knowing what it's like to be average or unattractive.

2) Grades certainly aren't everything, and if you're not looking to maintaining a scholarship, they're almost useless. Recruiters will look at grades during you final year, but after that they're worthless in any practical employment-seeking sense. People just want to know you have the degree. If there are any classes you particularly enjoy, you should strive to do as well as you can in those.

3) You're eventually gonna drop from 5 days a week (unless this becomes your sole non-work activity), so get as much in as you can now. It'll benefit you in the long run.

[evil_FUX]

I think it's simply that you need to redo your workout schedule. Maybe maximize for minimal amount of time but increased results. Regardless, there must be a schedule that works well in balance with your studies.

[cattygurl]

You don't have to work out as frequently if you work out really hard.

Do intervals in your cardio routine. Work out more intensely, and you can cut back your cardio time by half (but still 20 minutes).

Lift heavier weights (slower, with much attention to form) so that you can only do 1 set of 15 reps per exercise.

Alternate exercises. Don't do the same thing over and over- mix up using freeweights with machines, etc. Once a week, I change my exercise routine so that I stress my muscles in different ways, for example. Example: One week I'll do push-ups for my pecs, next week I'll do bench press, the week after I'll do flys.

[B the student]

thanks for the responses everybody.

Dialectic: i'm not looking to get huge, maybe somewhere in the 170-180 area. of course that may change once i get there, but we'll see. you're definitely right that now is probably the best opportunity i have to put a lot of time into working out. i was unaware that grades were not all that important until your final year of school.(does this include for graduate school b/c i may end up going?) maybe that explains my parent's lax attitude.

evil_FUX: damn straight i need a schedule. and i need to learn how to stick with one too :wink:.

cattygurl: i actually tend to do everything in my work outs. my chest program for example consists of bench presses, flys, dips, and free weight pressess (alternating daily from level, lowered, and raised bench) and sometimes push ups if i have the time. maybe i'll pick a favorite one to do extra on, but i've never really just goine all out doing just one exercise. is that really better?

how long does everyone work out for anyway? I try to put in at least 2 hours, on weekends i push try to push it to 3 hrs.

and kalbi: I'm on here because i want to continue to grow as an all around human being. I want to learn about myself and about the troubles and ideas of others. I don't want to be a consumer of someone elses culture, i want to truely embrace and respect that culture. I want to learn about the issues that effect my AA brothers and sisters, and see what i can do to help or support them. I want to make sure i don't end up selling out on the 44 vision. But most of all I'm waiting for the day the 44s take over the world, so i can start some real trouble :twisted:

[Dialectic]

If you're considering graduate school, then yeah grades take on a lot more importance. With regard to just employment, grades have a very limiting expiry date before no one cares anymore.

So work out as much as you can now without becoming too caught up in your body and self-image. Definitely strive for above average in school if excellence is not attainable when you're trying to exercise and have a social life (and ruin your life by modding here).

[cattygurl]

cattygurl: i actually tend to do everything in my work outs. my chest program for example consists of bench presses, flys, dips, and free weight pressess (alternating daily from level, lowered, and raised bench) and sometimes push ups if i have the time. maybe i'll pick a favorite one to do extra on, but i've never really just goine all out doing just one exercise. is that really better?

Try it. Mixing things up keeps your body guessing. I'll do one week where I do just one exercise for each body part, but do heavier weights to really max the muscle out. Be sure to have perfect form, and go really slow (I do a 15 to 20 count each way- one one thousand two one thousand...) BOTH WAYS. Max 10-15 reps (you shouldn't be able to do more than 10-15 reps. This is called exercising to failure). On other weeks, I'll do several exercises for each muscle group using lighter weights. I basically alternate between free weights (alt between slow but heavy, or lighter and longer) and body weight (i.e. push up, dips, etc) exercises. I also use stability balls, fitness tubing, etc. I'll throw in a Yoga class once a week to elongate my muscles and work the deeper core (holding a pose takes a LOT of work and balance). I also have a total gym at home.

how long does everyone work out for anyway? I try to put in at least 2 hours, on weekends i push try to push it to 3 hrs.


When my physical fitness/appearance had a lot of do with my job (i.e. back when I worked at a gym as a trainer, for example), I worked out 2-2 1/2 hours a day, 6 days a week.

It's really NOT neccessary to work out for 2 hours a day IF you're willing to up the intensity.

This was my fitness program at the peak of my physical fitness, in case it might help.

I always warm up with 5-10 minutes of warmup, and finish the remaining 20 minutes of my cardio AFTER I do my weights. I don't want to use up my glycogen stores doing Cardio first.

(I'd increase cardio to 45 if I need to lose weight)
30 minute moderate interval cardio 2-3 times a week (try to use different machines if working at the gym, or if walking my dogs, I'll use a path where there are rolling hills)
30 minute intense interval cardio 2 times a week (wind sprint/walk combo, walking my dogs on a trail with steep hills)
90+ minute (to build endurance) moderate hike or swim (I admit I use a kickboard) laps.

Upper Body- Twice a week
(Alt between machine/freeweight/bodyweight)

Lower Body- Twice a week
(ditto)

Core -three times a week (ab/lower back)
Pilates - once a week
standard ab/back exercises. Mix things up with stability balls, machines.

Yoga- once a week

Stretch-after warmup (5 min) and another 10 minutes after weights.

I try to throw in a 10 minute jumprope session in the morning to wake my lazy ass.


So work out as much as you can now without becoming too caught up in your body and self-image. Definitely strive for above average in school if excellence is not attainable when you're trying to exercise and have a social life (and ruin your life by modding here).


Working out is important, but so are your grades. Yes- people do get addicted to working out. As long as you have a healthy outlook- keep working out, eat healthy, and don't do so much of it at the expense of your future and social life.

[cattygurl]

Mixing things up will give you more of a balanced physique, BTW. Bodybuilders and Powerlifters tend to do really heavy weights and shorter, intense sessions to bulk up.

[cattygurl]

As you get older, it becomes increasingly important to maintain our coordination/balance capabilities. The reason we see old people shuffle when they walk is not just because they're losing strength- they're losing balance and coordination.

I love dance classes and Yoga. A friend of mine likes T'ai Chi. Another friend digs Martial Arts. My old neightbor used to do fancy footwork with his jumprope routine that took mad coordination and balance.

[The Ram]

cattygurl: you sure know your stuff, are you really fit?

[cattygurl]

I was certified by ACE (American Coucil of Fitness) and NASM (National Academy of Sports Medicine) as a Personal Trainer.

I USED to be fit. I have a desk job, so my fitness has been derailed due to the fact that I've been focusing on my business. I'm planning to get back on track. Anyone-Feel free to pm me if you have any questions in this area- I'll try to help you out, or lead you to a good source of info.

[B the student]

thanks cattygurl. :)

i'll definitely take you up on your offer if i ever need some more advice.

[kalbi]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/


You're welcome, B. That's is pretty much all you will need on your quest for Godliness.

[B the student]

thanks kalbi. altho i avoid using supplements, they do have some tips that will be helpful.

[kalbi]

Dude - effective supplementaion is ESSENTIAL, especially if you're an ectomorph/hardgainers. If you're super-skinny (low bodyfat, slender bonestructure, etc.), then no supplementation literally means NO GAINS. You must at LEAST takes protein supplements. Get with the program bro.



As for the site - it has VIDEO on the correct form for virtually every free-weight exercise, as well as professional op-eds, etc. It is THE online source for your needs, my friend.

[doppelganger]

B, i was definitely in your shoes before. right now I have a demanding job, but i work out 4 times a week (which is ideal, regardless of your schedule).

but when i didn't have a job or school, i would work out twice a day, six times per week! and when i went to grad school, i still worked out once a day six times per week. i'd eat 5-6 small meals a day. i'd sleep for 9 hours and nap for an hour or 2 midafternoon.

everything i did revolved around working out and eating and sleeping. i was really into bodybuilding, but the lifestyle was cutting into my social life, school and work.

the bottom line is if you value looking good and feeling good, then working out is just as important as work, school, and your social life, but not more important. you need to budget your time efficiently with regards to working out, and that means planning better, more efficient routines

somebody had mentioned working out 3-4 times a week, and that's ideal, but only if you cram in more work within a short period of time. 2-3 hours of working out is WAAYYY TOO LONG. your workout should not last more than an hour. try this out: have a stop watch ready and perform your regular workout ( that you do for 2-3 hours ) in one hour. once your hour is up, you stop working out, regardless if you finished your program.

if you didn't finish your planned program within an hour, consider it as 1) punishment for not working out hard enough or quickly enough and 2) as motivation to improve your performance next time. you'll find that if you have a limited amount of time to work out, you'll plan better and more streamlined workouts. you'll get rid of 80% of the exercises that you originally had (because they didn't do much for you) and keep the 20% that give you most bang for your buck.

if you shave off 1-2 hours per workout and train just 3-4 times per week, then you'll have a lot more time on your hands for school and a social life.
and as far as your physique, this will give you much better results than lifting and "living" in the gym all day, every day.

btw, i have a website on weightlifting: http://welcome.to/bodybuild_online

[B the student]

thanks kalbi and doppelganger.

kalbi: i'll take your recommendation of using supplements into account. I'm doing pretty well without them and i'm not looking to get super big, so i guess if i hit a wall before gaining the mass i want to reach, i'll give it a go. anything you recommend?

doppleganger: thanks for sharing your personal experience and advice. I'll definitely try to cut back time wise, cuz i really am cutting into other shit. I was wondering tho, i workout multiple body parts within that two hour time span (for example one day i do chest, back, thighs, abs). is an hour still enough time to work out all those body parts effectively? and you have a great website. combined with kalbi's site and arnold's encyclopedia and everyone else's advice I feel like i'm really going to be on the right track incorporating an effective work out plan into a more balanced lifestyle.

thanks everybody :D

[doppelganger]

B, you're going to find that an hour is more than enough to do a full body workout of chest back legs and abs. you have to do two things though:

1) quit screwing around with so many exercises.
2) quit resting so long between sets.

don't live in the gym, dude! it's a means to an end, not the be all and end all.

http://welcome.to/bodybuild_online

[toml]

Supplements are merely just another form of food. Sure you can eat a lot of chicken breasts for the protein. Or you could just have a protein shake.

Then again, supplements aren't that important when the usual food you eat is crap.

[toml]

how long does everyone work out for anyway? I try to put in at least 2 hours, on weekends i push try to push it to 3 hrs.

whoa! that is WAY too long. I think you're probably overtraining.

My workouts last less than an hour.

Also, don't forget the basics, like these multi-joint, combo exercises, squats (which is THE best full body exercise ever), deadlifts, pull-ups, cleans, etc... all work out multiple body parts.

check out this site: http://www.t-nation.com/ for some great tips. They've recently become more "commercial" so go through their archives. You'll find some great advice there.

[The Ram]

Hey Guys I got sort of a situation:

I have a slender but toned body frame, I understand
that I will never look "bulky" without intense weight
supplementation. That isn't my goal.

I would however like to gain strength and keep moving
up in my weights...

I play a lot of basketball and I have trouble progressing
in my weight training regimen..I am stuck at a certain
strength level and would like any tips , advice for training
my body to the next level.

[toml]

Hey Guys I got sort of a situation:

I have a slender but toned body frame, I understand
that I will never look "bulky" without intense weight
supplementation. That isn't my goal.

I would however like to gain strength and keep moving
up in my weights...

I play a lot of basketball and I have trouble progressing
in my weight training regimen..I am stuck at a certain
strength level and would like any tips , advice for training
my body to the next level.

Do you mean you want to increase in strength but not in size?

Anyway, the best way to increase strength is to lift heavy weights with low reps.

Do a traditional 5x5 routine (5 sets of 5 reps).

Use the same weight for each set. The idea is to choose a weight heavy enough that you will not be able to complete all 5 reps of each set. (e.g. let's say you go with 50 lbs. and the first set you do all 5 reps, then the next set you also do all 5, but after that you can only do 3, and then 3 and then 1). And, once you CAN do all 5 reps, then you increase the weight.

Check out that site I posted above from some workout routines.

[The Ram]

Thanks Tom B,

What I meant was that, for most sports, they emphasize muscle strength
as opposed to sheer bulk....I wanted to become very strong without
the additional bulkiness, aka Bruce Lee style.

[kalbi]

Dude, Bruce Lee is built like a termite. You'll need a bit more mass than him.

[toml]

Thanks Tom B,


What I meant was that, for most sports, they emphasize muscle strength
as opposed to sheer bulk....I wanted to become very strong without
the additional bulkiness, aka Bruce Lee style.

ahhh..., well your physical body & muscle size is mostly determined by genetics and what you eat (the amount and the ratio of macronutrients--carbs, proteins, fats)

You can keep lifting heavy weights and remain a proporationl size if you just limit what you eat (meaning you will get stronger but not too much bigger).

(It's actually a bit more complicated, but that's the general idea)

What's interesting is that most of those huge bodybuilders aren't as strong as they look. Most of the strongest people look big, but are covererd in layers of fat!

oh, and kalbi is right. As much as I admire Bruce, you probably want to be bigger than him!

[KeJia Sista]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/


You're welcome, B. That's is pretty much all you will need on your quest for Godliness.

Thanks for the site!
KeJia

[The Ram]

Dude, Bruce Lee is built like a termite. You'll need a bit more mass than him.

Yeah a termite that could bench press more than 300lbs and knock
out most heavy weight boxers.

[cattygurl]

Bulk is determined most heavily by genetics.

I agree with The Ram- I'd rather look like Bruce than the Governator any say. Besides, most of the bodybuilders lack flexibility and speed, which is more important to me.

Most women don't find the big, bulky muscles attractive- they want someone that's physically fit, not flabby skinny or flabby fat. A friend of mine is a triathelete and has a slim frame- and women love it, not because he's thin but because it's obviousl that he's so fit. He doesn't have bulk but he's def. got definition.

[The Ram]

Hey Guys I got sort of a situation:

I have a slender but toned body frame, I understand
that I will never look "bulky" without intense weight
supplementation. That isn't my goal.

I would however like to gain strength and keep moving
up in my weights...

I play a lot of basketball and I have trouble progressing
in my weight training regimen..I am stuck at a certain
strength level and would like any tips , advice for training
my body to the next level.

Do you mean you want to increase in strength but not in size?

Anyway, the best way to increase strength is to lift heavy weights with low reps.

Do a traditional 5x5 routine (5 sets of 5 reps).

Use the same weight for each set. The idea is to choose a weight heavy enough that you will not be able to complete all 5 reps of each set. (e.g. let's say you go with 50 lbs. and the first set you do all 5 reps, then the next set you also do all 5, but after that you can only do 3, and then 3 and then 1). And, once you CAN do all 5 reps, then you increase the weight.

Check out that site I posted above from some workout routines.



That can't be right...5 sets of 5 reps..would indicate bullk training would
it not? The higher the reps, the more endurance and tone, the lower
the reps, the more power and bulk...Though the 5 sets would seem
to deliver power endurance...

[DPC]

Bulk is determined most heavily by genetics.


That's funny. Cuz u see, u say "bulk" and "heavily" in the same sentence... yessssss... funny indeed...

[B the student]

That can't be right...5 sets of 5 reps..would indicate bullk training would
it not? The higher the reps, the more endurance and tone, the lower
the reps, the more power and bulk...Though the 5 sets would seem
to deliver power endurance...

I was thinking the same thing myself...but then again now that i think about it does seem to be a balance of power/endurance.

[toml]

That can't be right...5 sets of 5 reps..would indicate bullk training would it not? The higher the reps, the more endurance and tone, the lower the reps, the more power and bulk...Though the 5 sets would seem to deliver power endurance...

You're basically right that lifting heavy weights using low reps will build strength. However, it's a misconception that lifting a certain rep range will increase either bulk or tone. Both of these are determined more by your genes and what you eat.

I thought you said you wanted to increase strength? The 5x5 I mentioned is just a simple way to increase in strength. For some other set/rep ranges check out this article:

http://t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=485020

and if you want to know more about the optimal set/rep ranges, check out this one:

http://t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459418

It has some interesting ideas.

[toml]

Here's another good article regarding weights/sets/reps and muscle size:

(note that this article is geared towards women, but what works for them pretty much works for us ... it's just a bit easier for us---what with all that testosterone and other manly stuff! :) )

If you want to be lean, sexy, and hard, you should train HEAVY.

Yeah, I know what they told you, lighten the load and go for the burn... hogwash. To comprehend why this is indeed nonsense, we have to understand a few things about muscle tone in general. There are two types of muscle tone; myogenic and neurogenic. Don't get thrown off by the sciency words; the first simply refers to your muscle tone at rest. It is affected by the density of your muscles; the greater the density of your muscles, the harder and firmer you will appear. Heavy training increases your myogenic tone through the hypertrophy (growth) of the contractile proteins myosin and actin (myosin and actin are by far the most dense components of skeletal muscle).

Training in higher rep ranges promotes more sarcoplasmic (fluid) hypertrophy, which in turn yields a "softer" pumped look. If you want to be hard, firm, tight, etc, the latter is certainly not the way to go. The second aspect of a muscles' tone is neurogenic tone, or the tone that is expressed when movements or contractions occur. Again, lower rep training comes out on top as training with heavy loads will increase the sensitivity of alpha and gamma motor neurons, thus increasing neurogenic tone when conducting even the simplest of movements (i.e. walking, extending your arm to point, etc).

Finally, as alluded to in point number one, training with heavy loads and low volume (sets x reps) is the best way to get hard and strong, but not big. Muscular hypertrophy is generally a response to a high volume work output; therefore, by keeping the sets and reps low with heavy training, you wont have to fear getting overly big (this really isn't even an issue due to the physiological reasons mentioned earlier).

Why then is it commonly recommended that women train with lighter loads? Well, there are a couple reasons. First, there is the typical stereotype that women are weak, fragile creatures who can't handle anything more than pushups on their knees and bicep curls with pink dumbbells. Try telling that to 123 lb Mary Jeffrey who bench presses a world record 275 lbs and you'll likely get smacked upside the head with a 45 lb plate. Give me a break. Secondly, the belief that high-rep training increases muscle tone is 100% myth.

Strength training guru and Muscle Media contributor Pavel Tsatsouline explains this quite nicely, "Your muscle fibers are like mouse traps... they go off by themselves, but need energy to be reset to contract again. A dead body is out of ATP, the energy compound that relaxes the muscles... A high rep workout exhausts ATP in your muscle and leads to temporary hardness... The only way to make such 'tone' last is by killing yourself." Hmmm, sounds like fun to me. Pavel goes on to note, "You better get on a first name basis with heavy dead[lift]s if you are after a hard butt!" This brings us to our third and final point.

Source: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi12.htm

[The Ram]

TomL: Thanks for the links, these are some advanced techniques most
people don't even know about..props to you man.

[toml]

TomL: Thanks for the links, these are some advanced techniques most people don't even know about..props to you man.

No prob :)

Glad to help. And remember to pass this knowledge on to other AMs so that we can all improve ourselves.

Btw, I think your avatar is starting to give me seizures! HahaÖ

[doppelganger]

Tone comes from tension, and tension comes from lifting heavy weights (a la 5x5).