The Asian and the Acorn

[Dialectic]

An omega attractor is a healthy potential end state of a system. This means that the system is naturally attracted or pulled toward this state of existence. Once a system reaches its "omega point," it transcends its previous level/ state and becomes something "higher," more complex, more inclusive, and more whole.

I am referring to this idea of constant change and development when I say that our forum and vision are "developmental." We do not believe in taking static views on life, people, and existence, and an approach which accounts for change and evolution is much more effective in addressing, well, everything.

I would like to very briefly discuss the development of the human mind. From Wilber:

The psyche, for better or worse, is going somewhere, and that is why the process can get stuck, why it is fraught with frustration, arrest, fixation, stick points, logjams. If the mind weren't going somewhere, it could never get stuck, never get "sick." And these "sick points," these "stick points," can only be understood in terms of the mind's omega points, of where it wants to go ... "there is no structure that lacks a development, and ... the process of development can only be understood in view of the structure which exists at the beginning and the structures into which it will evolve."

-- Wilber, Sex, Ecology, and Spirituality, p. 83-84

It seems to me that a few members of this forum are suffering from having hit "stick points" in their development. This is causing trouble and suffering in their own lives, the lives of those around them, and is even reflected in the integrity of this forum. Almost all of the pathology we have seen here stems from stunted or retarded psychosexual development.

This also points up a fact that all psychological growth theorists ... have known for a long time: most neurosis is due not primarily to past conditioning per se, but to a future omega prevented from emerging. Even Freud's fixations, when they occurred were aborted omega points: libido cannot distribute in its normal and preferred pattern, but instead is traumatized in its growth, much like stepping on an acorn. These aborted omega drives then become conditioned and thus appear as past fixations, but that is not how they started. Recovery therapies in general ("regression in service of the ego") thus attempt to return to the point where the past conditioning was an aborted future growth, then take the boot off the acorn, and thus allow the growth to proceed forward in a more normal pattern, following its more natural omega. (Of course, it's a little more complicated than that - the acorn has continued to grow in slightly twisted ways, and this can't simply be cleanly undone; but the point is clear enough.)"

-- Wilber, Sex, Ecology, and Spirituality, Notes for Pages 84-95, p.565

So everywhere, we have these yellow male acorns getting stepped all over when they're forming, and their sexual growth, or line of development, is severely undeveloped in comparison with their other lines as well as the psychosexual lines of those around them. And we have seen even on this forum how this results in fixation.

Very Angry constantly talks about how to get dates, woo women, manipulate emotion, and trying to be a player. ABC obsessed over "pure Asianness" in blood and dating track records. Kalbi always tries to discuss how all women want to be owned and manipulated. Watercrest was only interested in posting about the wonders of dating Latinas. A ton of guys are fixated on ripping on CCBs. And the list goes on and on and on.

Please understand that I am not targeting these gentlemen for an attack, nor am I trying to single them out or ostracize them. In fact, I'd like them all to put together their own site and forum, and we could all benefit from mutual exchange. Also, I'd like to emphasize that I am not making blanket judgments on their psyches, and I know that this is an anonymous online forum where, as Kalbi put it, people let their "dark sides" out. The thing is, if development wasn't damaged in the first place, if there wasn't a hint of truth in their online behavior, there wouldn't be a "dark side" to let out.

This developmental model is, at present, the best way we have of compassionately understanding AM emasculation in North America, and the very non-trivial pathology/ fixation which results. There is no quick fix to this, no "just do it" solution, "get over it and go out and get a girl and fuck her brains out, son!" Even if we successfully take the boot off the acorn (and this "boot" is a complex thing, involving media, White and Asian culture, self-suppression, and communication barriers), its growth will not immediately proceed healthily and normally. AMs, nonetheless, must take responsibility for their own lives and development, and at the same time, we must all enact change in the larger social and cultural systems.

[Dialectic]

With regard to the usefulness of the above post itself, I think that "The Asian and the Acorn," along with the "Jump" and "FOB" Features, can serve as a good and hopefully insightful introduction to anyone unfamiliar with the emasculation/ disparity issue.

[Dialectic]

[Re-posted from another thread]

With regard what Alita said feels like a "slap in the face" about how some AMs love the sistas and then discuss how to get White women, I don't think it's quite that harsh or cruel-intentioned, for the reason that it's reactive (it doesn't make it right, I know), and it addresses the disparity in an "equalizing" manner (again, doesn't necessarily make it right). In this sense, it is not quite the cut-and-dried "double-standard" that some AFs think it is.

For example, fetishizing and self-hating is wrong, but if were at least happening equally in both genders, then not only would disparity problems and inter-sex hostility disappear, but many AMs would be a lot less frustrated, more confident, and happy. From this point, self-hating and fetishizing could really be addressed, as the relationship between the sexes would be more amicable.

Many AMs do need to regress, at least for a little bit, to try to compensate for fucked-up growth that cannot be easily repaired. I say this of course with a proviso: regression for future healthier growth is good, regression without end or as an end in itself is bad.

One true point some of the crazies (a few of whom we banned, most of whom have left) were trying to articulate was that it is more difficult for an AM to take a higher moral ground in matters of sexuality, because he has been disadvantaged (both internally and externally) his whole life, and feels like he's missed and is missing out on so much, and that he may never be able/ permitted to have the fun everyone else is having.

[Scowl]

Recovery therapies in general ("regression in service of the ego") thus attempt to return to the point where the past conditioning was an aborted future growth, then take the boot off the acorn, and thus allow the growth to proceed forward in a more normal pattern, following its more natural omega. (Of course, it's a little more complicated than that - the acorn has continued to grow in slightly twisted ways, and this can't simply be cleanly undone

One true point some of the crazies (a few of whom we banned, most of whom have left) were trying to articulate was that it is more difficult for an AM to take a higher moral ground in matters of sexuality, because he has been disadvantaged (both internally and externally) his whole life, and feels like he's missed and is missing out on so much

This is exactly why I cannot condemn the kamikazes; as a mod, I can enforce the rules and vision of the forum, but that's about it. And fuck, I've been there. I haven't been very vocal about it, but I flinch every time someone tries to take the "morally superior" stance.

"Not only are you wrong, but you have major problems if you can't see past that." And that's exactly the point - we do have major problems. And it's a helluva lot more complex than just "getting over it" or "seeing past that." A lot of guys are trying. Trying to beat them down without any attempt at empathy does not help at all. Wyn Ngo has come up with some great posts here; he has taken some fire for being sexist and racist. While there is some truth in those accusations, you have to remember where he is (and no, I'm not talking about the city he lives in), and who he's talking to.

Guys, tojo's "voice of compassion" isn't just lip service intented to retain forum members. Like I've said before - not all guys will go through this, but those who haven't are alien and foreign to me; the same way that these "crazies" must seem to them.

Shit, I don't even know what I'm talking about, now. I guess what i'm saying is that, while understanding is a two-way street, it may be easier to cross from one side than it is the other. Hah, I don't even know what that meant.

[JadeDragon]

"Not only are you wrong, but you have major problems if you can't see past that." And that's exactly the point - we do have major problems. And it's a helluva lot more complex than just "getting over it" or "seeing past that." A lot of guys are trying. Trying to beat them down without any attempt at empathy does not help at all. Wyn Ngo has come up with some great posts here; he has taken some fire for being sexist and racist. While there is some truth in those accusations, you have to remember where he is (and no, I'm not talking about the city he lives in), and who he's talking to.

I think that many of the disagreements between Asian men and women can be attributed to crossed signals or plain miscommunication. One of the major problems regarding this is that many Asian women simply aren't as aware of the racism and sexism inherent in society because they've been treated in a vastly different manner from Asian men by whitey. Let's face it, the dominant media organisations like to make Asian/Black/Hispanic/non-white women the poster children for despising their male counterparts, and by extension, other races. It's psychological warfare at its best. Divide and conquer. They pretend that they care for all human beings and uphold the attention they pay to all these women as an example of the "happy, happy, joy, joy, love, love" stance they've taken on interracial issues. When someone confronts whitey about the unfair treatment that Asian/Black/Hispanic/non-white men receive as the flip side of that coin, they immediately point towards something like the measures taken to prevent female genital mutilation in Africa (I'm not saying that this isn't an important issue, which it definitely is, but just that it's often used as a smokescreen for ignoring other equally important issues) and say, "Whatchu talkin' about, bitch? Look at what we've done for the women here. We ain't discriminatin', haters!!!111"

At the same time, whitey gets to degrade the Asian/Black/Hispanic/non-white male archetypes as well, saying that these men are only giving into their baser instincts and oppressing the shit out of their women. And unfortunately, many women fall into the trap of thinking, "hey, whitey's standing up for me, so he can't be all that bad, right?"; they begin to ignore what's really going down in favour of staying in a comfort zone, rather than stirring shit up. As a result, when the Asian man is being discriminated against, often many Asian women can't empathise very well because they've been desensitised from being coddled by whitey for so long or because they've never really experienced any form of overt racism in their entire lives (which they then take to mean that it doesn't exist because to them, it's "ancient history" or "it's never happened to me").

So, when the Angry! Asian! Man sees this, he becomes discouraged because the person he's most expected support and empathy from is just not getting it. Thus, he seeks other similar Angry! Asian! Men and they start forming Angry! Yellow! Sausage! Parties (gotta love those exclamation marks :lol: ) for solidarity and activity. They also start confronting Asian women, especially the CCBs, for being insensitive to the problems facing Asian men in society, for abandoning them at the altar to play Runaway Bride with whitey (or so to speak).

However, many Asian women either curl up and wait for their white knight in shining armour to come and rescue them or simply choose to avoid Asian men as a consequence. Some of them, like Michelle Malkin, take an active stance in decrying Asians, thus setting off more Angry Asian men. And the cycle continues...

But, I'm very certain that not all Asian men and women are stuck in these patterns of behaviour. After all, we're here on this website, aren't we? Unfortunately, sometimes it gets a little difficult to continue fighting the good fight when all Asian women are derided for "not wanting to understand and/or empathise with what Asian men have to suffer". There are quite a number of us, especially the Fighting Females, who DO want to understand and DO empathise, even if our concerns may not be exactly the same. Sometimes, it's very, very difficult for us not to simply say "screw this, I'm outta here" and walk off when we're met with hostility and misogyny. We understand your anger, because we're angry too. We're angry for ourselves, and we're also angry on your behalf. We, both men and women, are all victims of whitey here, even if the victimisation takes different forms. It may look like the women have it easier than the men, but truly, that's not the case, especially in the long run. The point is that we, as Asians, are all fighting to be recognised as strong, independent, intelligent, and complex individuals, and we need to educate, not ostracise, those who don't understand that yet.

It's going to be a HUGE undertaking, but can't we all just get along? 8)

[generaltojo]

I think that many of the disagreements between Asian men and women can be attributed to crossed signals or plain miscommunication. One of the major problems regarding this is that many Asian women simply aren't as aware of the racism and sexism inherent in society because they've been treated in a vastly different manner from Asian men by whitey. Let's face it, the dominant media organisations like to make Asian/Black/Hispanic/non-white women the poster children for despising their male counterparts, and by extension, other races. It's psychological warfare at its best. Divide and conquer. They pretend that they care for all human beings and uphold the attention they pay to all these women as an example of the "happy, happy, joy, joy, love, love" stance they've taken on interracial issues. When someone confronts whitey about the unfair treatment that Asian/Black/Hispanic/non-white men receive as the flip side of that coin, they immediately point towards something like the measures taken to prevent female genital mutilation in Africa (I'm not saying that this isn't an important issue, which it definitely is, but just that it's often used as a smokescreen for ignoring other equally important issues) and say, "Whatchu talkin' about, bitch? Look at what we've done for the women here. We ain't discriminatin', haters!!!111"

Well put, JD.

A classic divide and conquer strategyÖ or what management does to labour, or imperialists do in their colonies: promote half, denigrate the other, turn them against the other, have them fight amongst each other in order to ultimately maintain control over both.

It's going to be a HUGE undertaking, but can't we all just get along?

We can - as evidenced by the interrelations on this site - and we will. I'm of the firm belief that in the face of the social tides that are engulfing their world, unity is almost inevitable. To break things down, and build back up. To have them broken for us, to take it personally and rebuild it ourselves.

Somewhat romantically, I liken the schism in our comunity like the one between Isaac and Ishmael. In the end, they came back together to bury their father. And so shall it be for Asian women and Asian men. (Well, the ones who get it, anyway.)