Birth of a new '44 or Not "Oriental", ASIAN!

[Disciple4]

Hi. After reading the many enlightening and positive posts about my fellow AA bros struggle I had to join in. Finally its about time that we brothers banded together to fight. The site looks very organized and well made. Kudos to the OG Fighting 44's.

For myself, I am an Asian American male in his early twenties, graduating from UCLA soon. I am fucking sick of the same issues many of you have addressed and I am Furious. As a pledge of the 44's i will do my best to fight the good fight against the establishment that is White America.

On another note: Although I applaud AA who are angry/irate,.... i especially applaud Girth for his witty and intelligent posts. Big props my man, you kick ass!

On yet another note: I'd like to talk about the word "oriental" in lieu of saying Asian. Personally for me im offended by that label, and my blood starts boiling whenever some ignorant whitey uses that term to describe Asians. One time i was flipping the car radio when some radio jock said it was ok to use the term "oriental" to his fellow jock, and this is a very well known station in Los Angeles. Isn't it kinda like dropping an "N-bomb" in front of a black person? Is it just me? Some feed back my bros, (and sisters).

[evil_FUX]

Well I suppose it depends on how you view the word, not to mention the context. I mean some use oriental to describe asians, but in that same respect they could be using oriental in the historical sense that it was used. I suppose either way is bad since it's not PC. Frankly, I'm against it. I mean what the hell is so hard about saying asian or specifying which asian ethnicity one is talking about? wtf.

[vinh tha azn crazy]

more like calling a black a negro. nigger = chink/gook, negro = oriental. I don't mind if it's someone busting my balls that i /know/, otherwise, ass kikcing time

[generaltojo]

Welcome aboard, disciple.

My take on the word "oriental" isn't a popular one, but...

The term "Asian" is largely a (mis)appropriation by East Asians during the Civil Rights movement tailored by Asian American activists in the 60's and 70's. People still use the term "oriental" with no malice - Canada, the South, UK. Specifically in the UK, "Asian" means south asian, and "Oriental" means East Asian.

I understand the academics behind not using the O word - ethnocentrism, Edward Said, neo-colonial thought, etc etc. But still, I've always felt that the (mis)appropriation of the term "Asian" by AA activists was a powerplay, backed up by what I consider ideological bullying. Now I can't hear the O word without feeling uncomfortable - so I guess the strong-arming worked. Thanks, oh great AA activists who have no sensitivity or concern for any other context of asians in other parts of the world. Thank you for enlightening us heathen.

(Technically, the term "Asian" as it is used is incorrect - it does exclude Russian Asians, South Asians, Middle Eastern Asians. And some members in these groups are quite rightly pissed about the (mis)appropriation. I can't blame them.)

[Disciple4]

more like calling a black a negro. nigger = chink/gook, negro = oriental. I don't mind if it's someone busting my balls that i /know/, otherwise, ass kikcing time

Lol i was thinking about the word negro when i used "n-bomb" (fergot about the "n*gger" word, but yeah i totally agree.

The use of the term "Oriental" i just think its a way outdated, ethnocentric (Like tojo mentioned), term that needs to be squashed to the ground, like the head(s) of Vincent Chen's Killers.

[redguard]

hmm now that i think about it i guess guys are right. B4 i never really found orientals to b offensive.. but ill b sure to remember that the next time somebody uses it...

[Anarchrist]

Welcome aboard, disciple.

My take on the word "oriental" isn't a popular one, but...

The term "Asian" is largely a (mis)appropriation by East Asians during the Civil Rights movement tailored by Asian American activists in the 60's and 70's. People still use the term "oriental" with no malice - Canada, the South, UK. Specifically in the UK, "Asian" means south asian, and "Oriental" means East Asian.

I understand the academics behind not using the O word - ethnocentrism, Edward Said, neo-colonial thought, etc etc. But still, I've always felt that the (mis)appropriation of the term "Asian" by AA activists was a powerplay, backed up by what I consider ideological bullying. Now I can't hear the O word without feeling uncomfortable - so I guess the strong-arming worked. Thanks, oh great AA activists who have no sensitivity or concern for any other context of asians in other parts of the world. Thank you for enlightening us heathen.

(Technically, the term "Asian" as it is used is incorrect - it does exclude Russian Asians, South Asians, Middle Eastern Asians. And some members in these groups are quite rightly pissed about the (mis)appropriation. I can't blame them.)

Concering Edward Said et al. if you take the time out and look it up (as I did like the freak that I am), Oriental actually means anything east of the Holy Land (Jerusalem). The traditional opposite was the Occident, which pretty much makes the term Oriental somewhat of a vast oversimplification. Heck, I may be picky, but I have a problem with the word Asian. It falls down to American ethnic semantics, and a social issue we're continuously struggling against, namely, the curse of perpetual foreignization. If you African American, you're Black. If you're a fucking pinky, you're white... Both of which are dsignations of color, which denotes the possibility of existence anywhere on the globe. Yet, what are we? Asian? Is that the best we could semantically be designated as? A term that already initially marginalizes our identities to people from Asia? The unfairness is in the geographical implication of the term which influences the immediate assumption upon the listener that we are from Asia. Shit, white people aren't casually known as European-Americans. It's time to switch up the vernacular, and I dont mean changin' it ta Yella'. C'mon, pump out some terms that are prefereably monosyllibic and roll off the tongue...Gold? A'ight. Is there a monosyllibic word for 'just fucking superior'? Just kidding.
Anyway, the term Asian is only a slight variational result of the usual dialectics, however it's still a blatant extension of 'Oriental', and still stands to promote 'Orientalist' views. And you know what I say about Orientalists.
Fuck 'em.

[Dialectic]

Great post. I had similar thoughts concerning the term "Asian," though I didn't think through the "outsider" implications of it to the extent that you did, but just the inconsistencies in labels between minorities.

[angi]

Hispanics aren't called browns either. If anything, the usage of Black/White exemplifies the polarization of the two groups in America. I don't think that is something Asians or Hispanics should wish for themselves.

[Anarchrist]

Hispanics aren't called browns either. If anything, the usage of Black/White exemplifies the polarization of the two groups in America. I don't think that is something Asians or Hispanics should wish for themselves. It is true that hispanics aren't called browns, however you do bring up an interesting term that is in essence a misnomer. Hispanic is a designation of much contraversy as well since it identifies an ethnicity based simply on a language that they speak. This calls for many inconsistencies, for instance, Brazilians aren't considered Hispanic simply because they speak Portuguese, while they geographical come straight from the middle of Latin America, while ironically, people from Spain can be deemed Hispanic doubtelessly. An especially crude example of the erroneous nature of the term Hispanic concerns a lady from Central America that actually spoke Mayan and very little Spanish. In fact, her English became better than her Spanish by the time she had moved to North America for a while, and yet, she was still considered Hispanic (and not native american, although by all considerations, that's what she is). Incidentally, the term Asian is also indicative of American polarization, as opposed to the oversimplified 'oriental'. Unfortunately it condones the idea that our "pole" is on the other side of the planet.
The United States is a country founded on a political doctrine exemplifying independence on the conceptual grounds of democracy (and capitalism, but that's a whole other story). Unlike places like Bangladesh, where the formation of a country was based on something outwardly cultural, like a language, the only qualification an American must have to be American is simply by I) being born here or II) being naturalized. Any other informal parameters should be acknowledged as prejudice, or at the very least, opinionation. As Americans, I would hope we could formulate means of identifying groups of American citizens by more than where they are from. Although designation by color is still a pretty primitive and marginalizing way of identifying people, the term itself is less indicative of a person's culture, beliefs or geographical origin. (Unless expressly for the purposes of things like demography...) Associating a group of 'citizens' (specifically) for purposes of common language by akinning them to cultures from another region, is not only presumptuous and disrespectful, it is misrepresentative of Asians native to the Americas. (some may argue with my application of the word 'native' here, however I mean it in much the same way children of Northern settlers during the 19th century identified themselves as native if they were born in the country [as opposed to immigrants]) This reminds me of a pathetic moment when a Taiwanese-American banker friend of mine invited me to one of his get togethers at an anglo-saturated trendy yuppie trap on 30th street. One of those little lounges with a 'hip' logo for a name. So this big Biff looking drunk bumbling pink idiot comes over, (a co-worker of his) and is blithering about pimps; talking about how he, my friend and some other Italian (like FROM Italy) guy were all pimps. Then he continued on by identifying all of themselves in succession by stating, "Look man, we've got the European pimp here, the Asian pimp and the American pimp here" (referring to himself). My friend exclaimed impishly, "yeah, huh huh". Then I took him aside and said, "yo, this is the lair of the devil, bro". Pretty depressing. Scowl knows the guy, even if he's silent about it, I'm sure he nods in assent. Anyhow, here's a prime example of how the term Asian makes it's way into mainstream society, and becomes an 'acceptable' way to communicate all kinds of racist bullshit.