The Fighting 44s

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   — October 28, 2008 @ 2:26 pm

13 Responses

#1

nskripchun

2:15 am | Sep 01, 2008

You should posted the picture with the ducks. Haha. ;)

So for this upcoming teleconference, is it going to be in real-time or people just submitting audio that you’re going to be combining?

#2

jaehwan

6:17 pm | Sep 01, 2008

Haha…I don’t know if others would appreciate the ducks as much as we did.

I was thinking of doing it in real time. No need to record unless people want to. My new service, according to the website, will convert the whole thing into a podcast with the permission of all parties involved, but there’s no need to do that unless people want that. Maybe people just want to chat and get to know each other.

:) You know me–whatever, whenever, wherever, I’m ready!

#3

AZN MAN

3:17 pm | Sep 06, 2008

Unfortunately, I haven’t had the time to listen to any of the Podcasts, so I can only respond to what’s been written by you Jaehwan, and others here and in the Threads.

From a Non-Activist, I praise you and all the others involved for reaching out and trying to make a difference within AA Communities, and while I understand the content due to shared ethnic experience in N. America, I do not agree with a lot of the methods behind the AA Activist Methodology as discussed here and elsewhere. I believe a good portion is devoted to being gender divisive.

Here is my food for thought. What I feel is needed in the AA Community is Mentoring Programs. I think there is a severe lack of successful Asian Americans across many career fields that don’t take the time to nurture young AA’s in the form of mentorship.

I’ve been mentored by both Asian and Caucasian peeps in the Entertainment Industry, and am presently looking forward to closing a couple of film deals very soon. While the films may be a goal of mine, my dream is to hold workshops and mentoring programs for other Asians/Asian Americans. I want to educate them with how I became successful, and how I dealt with the incredible oppression that infects this particular industry in N. America, and how to reach audiences globally.

In my mind, teaching others to become successful and hoping that they in turn teach other fellow Asians/AA’s would be the turning point in AA Activism. Quite simply > Successful Asians helping other Asians to become successful.

Think about it; any questions/comments are welcomed.

#4

THX1138

7:02 pm | Sep 07, 2008

Azn Man: Here is a link to an organization called APA FIVE that appears to be doing what you mentioned with respect to mentorships.

http://www.apa5.org/about.html

I don’t know much about this organization, but it seems to be composed of AA elites who want to “inspire the next generation of APA leaders” in 5 professional sectors: “Business & Management, Education, Arts/Entertainment, Nonprofit, and Science/Technology.”

Regarding this type of advocacy, it appears to be based on the Colored Faces in High Places principle. That is, the idea that putting people of color (like AAs) in positions of power will create social change.

I don’t know if this is necessarily true. Just because there are Asians Americans in executive positions in, for instance, Hollywood doesn’t mean that they will create more AA-friendly movies. You could get a situation where you have Asian American producers creating a show like, say, Samurai Girl, instead of White producers. The end result is the same–only that there is now a more multicultural veneer on it.

In other words, it’s important to promote AA decision-makers who have the *consciousness and political will to change the institutions* that they are part of–instead of just going along with the status quo and promoting their own careers and upward mobility.

#5

jaehwan

11:42 pm | Sep 07, 2008

Good points, THX.

Actually, I think APA5 was the organization that had this huge event with tons of AA celebrities a few years back. It was all about contributing back to the community. Despite having Yul Kwon and a bunch of other rich, influential, and powerful AA’s as speakers, the event flopped. People just weren’t inspired to show up.

You’re spot on about the “consciousness and political will” thing. More than just the will to change institutions, they need to have a well thought out message. This is what we try to develop with Thymos. If you bring tons of famous AA’s to address young AA’s and inspire them, it won’t work if they don’t have a good message to share.

#6

AZN MAN

11:41 pm | Sep 09, 2008

J,
I am glad that Thymos is involved with the mentor concept. What type(s)of messages have you discussed that you feel would make an impact on the AA Community in regards to mentorship?

THX,
Thank you for linking the APA5 Org, I was unaware of its existence. Although I only briefly browsed the site, it was interesting to see an effort being made towards AA empowerment across different industries. Since I’ve been involved professionally with Entertainment since I was 15, it is really the only Industry that I know intimately. Despite a growing AA presence within it, the profitability of AA Entertainment is so diminutive that the “Consciousness and political will to change the institutions” most likely will not take place by AA’s in decision-making positions; therefore we agree on that point.

In my opinion, the change will come from a global Asian economic presence, not strictly a North American movement; this is due to the vast monetary resources and profitability of Asia, not Asian America.

Thus,
Do you feel that AA’s can create change in other industries via mentorships? Do you think the change will come with Asian Americans as the focal point of the change(s), or from Asians as a whole, regardless of culture/country of origin?

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts or perhaps the thoughts of other members here regarding this.

#7

jaehwan

12:58 am | Sep 10, 2008

AZN,

We actually don’t do mentorships yet. Well, we try to, but so far we haven’t really put all that much effort into it. We do try to grow the network though–i.e. if a young person wants to get into finance, we introduce them to someone who does that.

What we mostly do is throw ideas back and forth both in person and over our e-mail list. These ideas are powerful regardless of what field people are in. So it’s pretty cool because people from different fields contribute different opinions on topics that we all deal with. And then we all find ways to make our own personal contributions.

#8

jaehwan

7:22 pm | Sep 10, 2008

King and THX,

It was good talking to you both on the teleconference last night. It’s always good to connect real voices to screen names. I hope more people make voice contact in the future.

That small part that we recorded was understandable but not great. Now I know why William paid so much for that expensive phone patch. Anyway, the openness we got from not recording was more than worth it.

#9

THX1138

10:45 pm | Sep 10, 2008

AZN MAN: You’re right about the significance of the economic rise of Asia.

However, from a White American viewpoint, all they want is to exploit Asia as a market. Just because these vultures … sorry White Hollywood producers see dollars signs in their eyes in the Asian market, doesn’t mean that they will change the content of their film masterpieces accordingly. In fact, Hollywood films have been invading Asia for decades.

There is also a significant Asian film industry from Indian Bollywood to Hong Kong cinema to Korean “K-dramas.” And there are Asian American media creators who are interested in looking to Asia in a variety of ways.

http://chasingchan.blogspot.com/2008/07/feature-asian-american-cinema-global.html

Whether these latter trends will be able to change America remains to be seen.

As for mentorships, this is just a tool. The most important question is this: What agenda does this tool serve?

If mentorships are designed ONLY to get more Asian people in, say, Hollywood, I think this will have limited results at best. At most, it becomes a glorified jobs programs for Asian American elites.

But will it benefit the AA community beyond these elites?

Will it change the same old tired McShit films/shows/depictions you see about Asians in America?

I doubt it.

The Colored Faces in High Places paradigm cannot and will not effect any fundamental progressive change–whether that be in Hollywood or, for that matter, by putting a Black President in the White House.

It’s cosmetic change–not the real deal.

Only a grassroots mass movement that is not afraid to confront mainstream America and “speak truth to power” can do that.

Anyway, here are my feelings about the American media in general. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6MlwT1lBk0&feature=related

JAEHWAN: The talk was interesting. I’ll try to write up a summary about it.

#10

minorTruths

11:27 am | Sep 14, 2008

AZN MAN, I understand your point to be that the sphere of influence(s) wielded by the East will inevitably increase, spanning the globe and reach far beyond mere politics, economies, or international trade as the world’s wealth shifts from the West to the East. In other words, as Asian countries’ economies become stronger or grow at a much faster rate relative to Western economies, specifically the United States’, roles will become reversed eventually. Cultural, social, and artistic influences as perpetuated through the media will then undeniably have a heavy Asian clout.

I don’t necessarily disagree with this thinking. This type of change is a natural by-product of increased economic power. However, this type of change takes a very long time even after economic power is achieved. There are ways to help speed up this process as you have suggested either through mentorships or by having more Asian faces in positions of power and influence here in America. But as THX1138 has pointed out, these are just tools in the toolbox. What we need as THX has suggested are “AA decision-makers who have the *consciousness and political will to change the institutions* that they are part of”.

For example, many big Hollywood production studios are owned by Japanese companies. Whether these production studios are majority owned by Japanese holding companies solely to bolster their investment portfolio or not, the point is that financial gains alone do not guarantee any meaningful change in addressing the number of Asian/Asian American issues discussed here. Actually, AZN MAN, maybe you could help me out with this since you’re in the business. If many of these Hollywood production studios are owned by Japanese firms, where are the influences of these Japanese firms seen or felt in the types of movies made beside in the financials? How does it work man?

THX, I find your socialist ‘leanings’ very interesting. How do you balance and blend your ideas on Asian American issues/activism with your socialistic beliefs? Is a capitalist Asian American activist the same as a socialist Asian American activist? Is a capitalist Asian American activist as effective as a socialist Asian American activist? I know you mentioned on one of the podcasts that you are not an activist per se. So maybe instead…define for me socialism from the viewpoint of an Asian American? Sorry, I really don’t mean to put you on the spot…I am just truly interested in hearing your thoughts and understanding more.

Guys, sorry I missed out on the teleconference. I won’t mind taking part in one. I’ll be glad to share any little amount of knowledge I might have on issues, but I am not an activist per se. To Garrett’s point, I think I’m in the ‘building up a consciousness’ stage. I have a lot of things going on now, so I don’t know timing wise what would work best. But yeah, I’m down.

Jaehwan, have you heard of the website Racialicious? I think that website is one of the best websites out there that tries to bring awareness about race in pop culture and politics to the forefront. They are very comparable to theFighting44s in terms of the quality of content. However, their approach is a little different. We are a bit more edgy in letting our expletives land where they may. Racialicious is bold as well, but they don’t have a forum section like theFighting44s’ where most of our ‘edginess’ happens. All of their content is from blogging done by main contributors to the site, special correspondents, guest contributors, and from the comments from people in response to those blog entries. The guest contributors can be guests who knowingly blog a piece for the site or it can be excerpts and postings from other sites and news outlets that are reposted on the Racialicious site. Interestingly enough, they have never reposted or referenced anything theFighting44s have written.

Another difference is that Racialicious has achieved national recognition and have reached a lot more people. The lady who runs that sight has been quoted, interviewed, and referenced in major media outlets including CNN, NPR, and the New York Times. I neglect to mention that the sight is not solely focused on Asian American issues. The site deals with race in pop culture from all perspectives. However, the founder of the site is of Asian descent and hence a lot of blogs do deal with Asian issues.

Anyway, the point is not to promote Racialicious, even though they are a great sight with great writing and insight. But I was thinking they could be another avenue of exposure in reaching more people and increasing readership and support for theFighting44s. Whether that happens through guest blogging, commenting, or podcasting, I don’t know. But it would be nice if we could collaborate with such a site and share some of the same clout. What do you think?

#11

jaehwan

2:53 pm | Sep 14, 2008

MinorTruths,

Thanks for your deep input! It’s awesome to hear your perspective.

We wish we could’ve had you for the teleconference. We can technically do podcasts over the phone, but the quality…well, we tested it with me, THX, and King, and let’s just say that after being on BetterAsianMan and using my MacBook Pro built-in mic, the phone ‘cast isn’t exactly professional quality. The dialogue is intelligible if you crank up the volume, but…still.

Check your pm box. Send me your e-mail address, and I’ll e-mail you next time we schedule another teleconference so that we can definitely get you in. I really do believe that voice contact is what will make big things happen.

I know of Racialicious. Carmen, the owner, runs that site professionally; it revolves around and aids her diversity consulting business, which means that she does it full time for pay, which gives her a huge advantage over any other AA site out there. I think it’s great that someone is covering the intersection of pop culture and race relations (most of us usually don’t have much interest in pop culture; I think the last time we brought in pop culture was with D’s piece on Edison.) Carmen has done very well both in terms of money and outreach. As you mention, she has been covered and interviewed in much of the mainstream media.

About cross-collaboration: we both know of each other’s existence. Carmen and her old partner Jen Chau did an interview with Reappropriate Jen a while back where they talked about how sites like the 44s perpetuate sexism by questioning the IR disparity–I can’t find the interview, but I think it revolved around D’s article here. It was basically just three women saying the word “sexist” in fifty different ways over the course of a fifty minute interview. Because, you know, D and others should just “get over it.”

I’d be open to collaborating with them, and I appreciate what they bring to the blogosphere, but I don’t think they’d be open to collaborating with us. We’re the black sheep of the AA net. You’ll notice, for example, that we link Reappropriate on our front page, but the favor isn’t returned. It’s just the way it is. Certain sites, like Reappropriate, Raciailicious, AngryAsianMan, Zuky, and Asian-Nation, promote views that are mainstream enough, ie safe enough, to get along with the mainstream, and we threaten that relationship. Sites like the 44s, modelminority, the old Fallout Central, and now BetterAsianMan, fall into the “black sheep” category. This doesn’t mean that groups of one category are necessarily better than others–modelminority has some crazy people who need professional help, and we don’t link them up for good reason–but there is a pretty strong dividing line between mainstream and not. Certain people are acceptable and allowed into the club, while others are not. It’s kind of like high school.

Which (and this brings us back to the original post) is why we need voice contact. People like us need to be louder because we’re not status quo. We’re not accepted by the mainstream, so we need to try harder. For many of the 44s, we’re not content just to complain; we want a means to change the rules of the game. As we mention in the podcast, the web is great for exchanging ideas and theory, but if we’re going to seriously take action, it requires taking the communication and collaboration to the next level.

#12

THX1138

7:42 am | Sep 15, 2008

minorTruths:

How do I balance Socialist/Leftist views with Asian American issues? Well, Asian American politics tends to be much more mainstream than the Left. So I feel it’s wise to tone down my politics some when I focus on AA issues–otherwise people will tend to tune you out as a wild-eyed radical.

Is an Asian American socialist the same as a “capitalist” Asian American activist?

No. The former is willing the question and challenge society at its foundations, whereas the latter accepts the legitimacy of its socio-economic and political system. Put simply, Asian American socialists want the to work for systemic change (i.e. revolution), whereas mainstream Asian American activists are working for modest reforms within the system.

The Left is weak in the USA. And the Asian American Left is probably even weaker. So mainstream AA activists who support capitalism are certainly more influential and powerful, so I guess you could say that the latter are more effective in that sense.

There is a trade-off politically. The more mainstream you are politically, the more resources and power you will probably have, but in the process your politics will be diluted, and you might have to sell your soul as a result.

Technically, socialism means the social or collective ownership of the “means of production.” That is, economic life is subject to public ownership and control rather than in private hands. Also, economic production should be based not on the profit motive but on the fulfillment of social needs.

Regarding Racialicious, I frequent that site fairly often. In terms of their discussion of race and pop culture, they are pretty good and not afraid to take a stand. On more substantive issues like the election, they are fairly superficial, although that is not what their site was really designed to do. Somebody affliated with 44s could submit a piece to them and see if they publish it. They do accept submissions.

Here’s a sample of their posts on Samurai Girl and “Farnfucious”:

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/09/10/samurai-girl-premieres/

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/09/11/yellowface-puppet-on-youtube/