“The PUA Theory of Male Advancement”

http://www.thefighting44s.com/forum/showthread.php?p=45222#post45222

This way we can discuss this somewhat tangential issue without unduly prolonging the responses to Jaehwan Article.

Also, others may also wish to ask questions and it may be easier to accomplish that in the Forums area.

See you over in Forums.

I’ve never visited the forums, but I would like to chat about this subject or any other with you. Which conversation thread do I go to?

-William

I’m wondering if you and I shouldn’t wander over to the forum side and continue discussing there, if you’re willing?

It sounds like you’re referring to Nick Savoy’s work, “The Mystery Method.” It might be interesting to exchange ideas about it.

I, at least, am curious.

Well based on your definition of the PUA theory of male advancement:

The better men are at persuading women to have sex with them, the more confident, happy, and well adjusted he will be.

I once subscribed 100% to this theory. During the initial few weeks after my bootcamp, I spent a lot of time working on the basic fundamentals of social interaction, conveying oneself to a woman in a way that a woman can understand, and “being myself” using the structure that the ABCs of Attraction curriculum recommends. That actually DID make me better able to romantically connect with women, and during that time, that DID make me more confident, happy, and well adjusted.

However, I am at at a point now where this theory is no longer 100% useful in my life. Simply being able to romantically connect with a woman is something that I’ve already been able to accomplish many times over (thanks to the life-altering realizations and lessons I learned during my “bootcamp”), and now, just doing that in itself doesn’t make me happy– I actually need that, along with a long term relationship. I believe that the only way, though, to have a healthy long term relationship with someone is to build up one’s survival value, as well as one’s replication value. I have the survival value part pretty much down pat, but I’m constantly working on building up my replication value. I understand that many of the 44s already have both of these aspects of their lives together, and thus they have no problem with their romantic lives. I, however, have a bit more catching up to do. If you’re interested, here are my latest thoughts on survival and replication value.

http://www.betterasianman.com/blog/?p=84

-William

“I subscribe 100% to the Asian Playboy’s techniques for 1) being yourself, and 2) learning how to better convey yourself to women.

However, I do not know what the PUA theory of male advancement is. Could you explain to me what that is?”
——–

To answer your question, I’d first look at the Wikipedia definition of a Pick Up Artist.

“A pickup artist, commonly abbreviated PUA,[1] is a term used to describe a man who is skilled in meeting, attracting, and seducing women. The use of “pickup” in this context, slang for making a casual acquaintance with a stranger in anticipation of sexual relations…”

“…The term is also associated with the seduction community, a male subculture based on the goal of improved sexual and romantic abilities with women using either self-help, an understanding of social psychology and/or techniques derived from Neuro-linguistic programming.”

The basic theory of male advancement, in a nutshell, and from what I’ve been able to cobble together from reading different sites is as follows:

The better men are at persuading women to have sex with them, the more confident, happy, and well adjusted he will be.

That’s my impression from my looking around so far, but tell if you think I’m getting it wrong.

Jaehwan - You took two random sentences out of context and applied your own theories about the innate difference between men and women to them.

I am not a pick up artist, but, as I mention in all of my posts under the “One Asian American Man’s Life” category on my blog, I DID take a class taught by pickup artists (one of whom was the Asian Playboy). This class is also referred to as “a bootcamp.”

I subscribe 100% to the Asian Playboy’s techniques for 1) being yourself, and 2) learning how to better convey yourself to women.

However, I do not know what the PUA theory of male advancement is. Could you explain to me what that is?

My vision for http://www.betterasianman.com was to show people how I became more empowered in my life by showing people what I was like before I took my bootcamp, and what I am like now that I have completed my bootcamp. I also leave things open at the end of each post to give people a chance to chime in because I DO believe that there are other ways to improve one’s love life without having to take a class with the Asian Playboy, but I have been unable to identify one that has made as dramatic, and also consistent, results.

-William

I have to say that your site is MUCH better than the PUA sites that I have perused thus far. I’m curious, do you even call yourself a PUA? Your vision seems to be much broader than the standard PUA philosophy, from what I can tell.

I couldn’t read through your entire site in one sitting, of course, but I’ll continue to look around. As I said above, I’m not sure to what degree that you subscribe to the general PUA theory of male advancement, but here are a few points that I wish that all PUAs would begin their programs with:

1) There is very little that I can do for you, as a PUA, if you are a 2-rated guy and looking to date an 8-rated girl. Even if you are “relaxed” and “confident,” the chances of that happening in real life are pretty slim. However, I am willing to teach you how to better manage your expectations in a more realistic and healthy way.
* number ratings used on humans only for the sake of brevity in this post

2) The world of dating is much more a venue for failure than success. In order to succeed, it is likely that you will fail many times over. Therefore, we will focus more on handling rejection without undue embarrassment, anger, or ego damage, and less on the “secrets of how women’s minds work.”

3 A considerable amount of effort will be devoted to the deconstruction of the Hollywood/Madison Avenue image of the “ideal femme.” Our course will attempt to reveal that the “perfect woman” (as males often perceive her) is more often the result of professional makeup, trick photography, hair extensions, dental implants, cosmetic surgery, and hours of airbrushing rather than of human genetics. By the end of the course you will have gained the important skill of delineating the difference between real women and fantasies.

4 A questionnaire will be administered to all clients and reviewed by a professional. This step is particularly helpful because the trouble that many men have in dating women is actually more rooted in their deeper (and somewhat unrelated) psychological issues) than in their dating methodology. Referrals to counselors will be provided upon request.

That may come across as a bit loony, but perhaps something less dramatic but in the same spirit?

Regarding your comment:

I was trying to make the point that if PUA truly is for the “social betterment” of these men, it would be taught in such a way that they would be better able to relate socially to people.

Do you think that the material taught by the Asian Playboy is taught in such a way that students who learn it would be better able to relate socially to people?

If you think there is a reason why guys act like frat boys and women don’t, let me know.

Because they are socially programmed to be misogynist and self-defeating. Women are also programmed to be misogynist and self-defeating. That’s why you can always dig up a bushel of women to agree with you. This is the same as any mainstream argument:
White people didn’t used to be racist because at that time it was socially normal to be racist.

I can take this ridiculous argument and dig up a dozen non-white people who would be happy to support it, but it doesn’t make it true.

Pointing to the best seller status of the poorly researched, “Women are from Jupiter, Man are from Uranus” is not evidence either–it just shows how people in the status quo are comforted by reading misogynist crap.

Instead of essentializing what society defines for gender roles, and then having pissing contests about it, why not develop ideology around gender the empowers and uplifts people rather than confines them and promote that?

I’ll start: There are some biological differences between women, just as there are large biological differences between individuals. These are easily trumped by nurturing of individual agency and equitable opportunities in the society. We cannot merely shove this in people’s faces, but must respect the power of the current socially constructed gender roles and work within them to explode them.

That didn’t hurt too much, did it?