Comments on: Epic Fail: The Saga of PUA Dimitri the Lover and Olga http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/ Uniting the Asian Conscience Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:57:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: nightshade http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6993 nightshade Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:39:57 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6993 Why did the joys of an epic fail turn into a PUA devotee penis measuring contest? Why? JUST ENJOY THE EPIC FAIL! Why did the joys of an epic fail turn into a PUA devotee penis measuring contest? Why?

JUST ENJOY THE EPIC FAIL!

]]> By: nottyboy http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6992 nottyboy Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:19:10 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6992 <blockquote>Going to APB’s page: I think the general tone that pick-up is a competitive rather than collaborative exercise is damaging.</blockquote> Do you mean competitive as in man vs man, or woman vs man? <blockquote>Same for the blatant objectification of women. When I see two guys roll in with 40 girls, I think, “Are they actually interacting in any interesting way?” What are we still into owning other human beings to show power. That’s a shame. He crosses “Good DNA” with “Good in bed”. More objectification. Holding up of blondness as indication of value.</blockquote> I think you're referring to this entry in APB's blog: <a href="http://theasianplayboy.blogspot.com/2008/07/video-big-pimpin-with-40-hotties.html" title="BIG PIMPIN WITH 40 HOTTIES!!!" rel="nofollow">. Specifically, these paragraphs: <blockquote cite="APB's blog"> So why is it that pre-selection by women works? Empirically, psychologists have shown that men that are surrounded by smiling beautiful women are considered more attractive by other women. Women are also more inclined to approach these men. Why is this? Think about it. Let's say a woman is down for a Same Night Lay or One Night Stand. So she's a women who is searching for a man with good DNA and replication value, in other words an INCREDIBLE LOVER! So they're looking for markers that indicate YOUR ability to PROVIDE AMAZING SEX. </blockquote> I'm not saying that you're wrong, but all I see in that paragraph is a blurb explaining Cialdini's "Social Proof" concept, and tying it in with Mystery's pseudo-evolutionary-psych stuff about how women look for replication value. I don't want to cite the whole blog entry, but I just couldn't find anything in there that implied owning other humans; they're just showing up with a bunch of girls because it makes them look popular. I also fail to see where the objectification is happening. All the guy is saying is that being seen with beautiful women gets you noticed by other women. <blockquote>Listen to some of the testimonials: some guy who got a handjob from a lesbian because she was jealous. Some dude in a foursome. Blah blah blah. Now raise your hand if you think a decent percentage of women would be impressed by these stories… A reminder–this is a homoerotic festival of self-promotion to sell a product. </blockquote> Let me turn the question around: Would a decent percentage of women have a problem with the fact that a guy was in a foursome or got a handjob from a jealous lesbian? I can understand maybe having a problem with the style of communication in the blog. It is meant to sell workshops that supposedly teach a guy how to get laid consistently. <blockquote>I’m happy to reexamine some of the wonderful people in this community if you will direct me to someone who’s not a prick. Since I’m completely wrong in thinking that’s a tiny minority, it should be easy.</blockquote> Honestly, even if someone provided a link to a real player, most people on this site would still dismiss it, mainly because it's not a lifestyle of which you approve. I doubt that you would find any common ground in how you view people's nature.</a>

Going to APB’s page:
I think the general tone that pick-up is a competitive rather than collaborative exercise is damaging.

Do you mean competitive as in man vs man, or woman vs man?

Same for the blatant objectification of women. When I see two guys roll in with 40 girls, I think, “Are they actually interacting in any interesting way?” What are we still into owning other human beings to show power. That’s a shame.

He crosses “Good DNA” with “Good in bed”. More objectification. Holding up of blondness as indication of value.

I think you’re referring to this entry in APB’s blog: . Specifically, these paragraphs:

So why is it that pre-selection by women works? Empirically, psychologists have shown that men that are surrounded by smiling beautiful women are considered more attractive by other women. Women are also more inclined to approach these men.

Why is this?

Think about it. Let’s say a woman is down for a Same Night Lay or One Night Stand. So she’s a women who is searching for a man with good DNA and replication value, in other words an INCREDIBLE LOVER! So they’re looking for markers that indicate YOUR ability to PROVIDE AMAZING SEX.

I’m not saying that you’re wrong, but all I see in that paragraph is a blurb explaining Cialdini’s “Social Proof” concept, and tying it in with Mystery’s pseudo-evolutionary-psych stuff about how women look for replication value. I don’t want to cite the whole blog entry, but I just couldn’t find anything in there that implied owning other humans; they’re just showing up with a bunch of girls because it makes them look popular.

I also fail to see where the objectification is happening. All the guy is saying is that being seen with beautiful women gets you noticed by other women.

Listen to some of the testimonials: some guy who got a handjob from a lesbian because she was jealous. Some dude in a foursome. Blah blah blah.

Now raise your hand if you think a decent percentage of women would be impressed by these stories…

A reminder–this is a homoerotic festival of self-promotion to sell a product.

Let me turn the question around: Would a decent percentage of women have a problem with the fact that a guy was in a foursome or got a handjob from a jealous lesbian?

I can understand maybe having a problem with the style of communication in the blog. It is meant to sell workshops that supposedly teach a guy how to get laid consistently.

I’m happy to reexamine some of the wonderful people in this community if you will direct me to someone who’s not a prick. Since I’m completely wrong in thinking that’s a tiny minority, it should be easy.

Honestly, even if someone provided a link to a real player, most people on this site would still dismiss it, mainly because it’s not a lifestyle of which you approve. I doubt that you would find any common ground in how you view people’s nature.

]]> By: Heyyu http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6988 Heyyu Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:43:57 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6988 You know what, these PUA's are not really doing anything that hasn't been done before. Humans have been mating for thousands of years. There are no new tricks. Human nature hasn't really changed much. What the PUA's emphasize is what most every guy should know through common sense (but it's harder to do in reality): Brush off rejection and move on to the next girl (in other words, the more women you approach, the more one might show interest), and be confident/assertive/funny without being a doormat (which our ancestors thousands of years could have told you as well). The difference is that back before the industrial age our ancestors were out toiling in fields trying to get food for the women & children. They weren't sitting around on a computer wondering, "Why can't I get women?" They just did it, and without this modern advice of pumping iron at the gym & all this other ridiculous crap. You know what, these PUA’s are not really doing anything that hasn’t been done before. Humans have been mating for thousands of years. There are no new tricks. Human nature hasn’t really changed much. What the PUA’s emphasize is what most every guy should know through common sense (but it’s harder to do in reality): Brush off rejection and move on to the next girl (in other words, the more women you approach, the more one might show interest), and be confident/assertive/funny without being a doormat (which our ancestors thousands of years could have told you as well). The difference is that back before the industrial age our ancestors were out toiling in fields trying to get food for the women & children. They weren’t sitting around on a computer wondering, “Why can’t I get women?” They just did it, and without this modern advice of pumping iron at the gym & all this other ridiculous crap.

]]> By: Xian http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6986 Xian Tue, 05 Aug 2008 12:37:58 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6986 No sarcasm there. I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that crap. If you unicornish good PUAs do exist, you had your chance to move from hollow rhetoric to substance. later. No sarcasm there. I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that crap. If you unicornish good PUAs do exist, you had your chance to move from hollow rhetoric to substance.

later.

]]> By: Candide http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6985 Candide Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:25:19 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6985 Xian, since you've already formed such a strong opinion by studying one PUA, despite your sarcastic request, let's not waste each other's time with a certainly fruitless discussion. Xian, since you’ve already formed such a strong opinion by studying one PUA, despite your sarcastic request, let’s not waste each other’s time with a certainly fruitless discussion.

]]> By: Xian http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6983 Xian Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:25:36 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6983 I don't want to spend time in the community. That's like saying that I haven't spent enough time with white supremacists to get to know them. I'm happy to reexamine some of the wonderful people in this community if you will direct me to someone who's not a prick. Since I'm completely wrong in thinking that's a tiny minority, it should be easy. Going to APB's page: I think the general tone that pick-up is a competitive rather than collaborative exercise is damaging. Same for the blatant objectification of women. When I see two guys roll in with 40 girls, I think, "Are they actually interacting in any interesting way?" What are we still into owning other human beings to show power. That's a shame. He crosses "Good DNA" with "Good in bed". More objectification. Holding up of blondness as indication of value. Listen to some of the testimonials: some guy who got a handjob from a lesbian because she was jealous. Some dude in a foursome. Blah blah blah. Now raise your hand if you think a decent percentage of women would be impressed by these stories... A reminder--this is a homoerotic festival of self-promotion to sell a product. I don’t want to spend time in the community. That’s like saying that I haven’t spent enough time with white supremacists to get to know them.

I’m happy to reexamine some of the wonderful people in this community if you will direct me to someone who’s not a prick. Since I’m completely wrong in thinking that’s a tiny minority, it should be easy.

Going to APB’s page:
I think the general tone that pick-up is a competitive rather than collaborative exercise is damaging. Same for the blatant objectification of women. When I see two guys roll in with 40 girls, I think, “Are they actually interacting in any interesting way?” What are we still into owning other human beings to show power. That’s a shame.

He crosses “Good DNA” with “Good in bed”. More objectification. Holding up of blondness as indication of value.

Listen to some of the testimonials: some guy who got a handjob from a lesbian because she was jealous. Some dude in a foursome. Blah blah blah.

Now raise your hand if you think a decent percentage of women would be impressed by these stories…

A reminder–this is a homoerotic festival of self-promotion to sell a product.

]]> By: nottyboy http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6980 nottyboy Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:18:25 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6980 <blockquote> I have yet to met/encounter/read about a PUA who actually builds their clients’ skills in a lasting, healthy way. And if you are trying to get from LA to Seattle, me giving you ride to Hartford, CT is not helpful. </blockquote> Hey Xian, What do you consider healthy? Any specific examples of things you consider harmful as far as what you consider "PUA" teachings? My bad if you've discussed that before. -Notty

I have yet to met/encounter/read about a PUA who actually builds their clients’ skills in a lasting, healthy way. And if you are trying to get from LA to Seattle, me giving you ride to Hartford, CT is not helpful.

Hey Xian,

What do you consider healthy? Any specific examples of things you consider harmful as far as what you consider “PUA” teachings?

My bad if you’ve discussed that before.

-Notty

]]> By: Candide http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6975 Candide Mon, 04 Aug 2008 05:32:05 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6975 Some PUAs who are selling a service are pretty damn good at what they do. There are some hacks, but not all of them are. My point is that you are obviously not in the community and have not studied it. I think you should keep an open mind on this, especially: <blockquote> I have yet to met/encounter/read about a PUA who actually builds their clients’ skills in a lasting, healthy way. </blockquote> The PUA scene ain't exactly on popular media, and besides, "a lasting, healthy way" is based on personal perception. Yours might not be what other people want. Some PUAs who are selling a service are pretty damn good at what they do. There are some hacks, but not all of them are.

My point is that you are obviously not in the community and have not studied it. I think you should keep an open mind on this, especially:

I have yet to met/encounter/read about a PUA who actually builds their clients’ skills in a lasting, healthy way.

The PUA scene ain’t exactly on popular media, and besides, “a lasting, healthy way” is based on personal perception. Yours might not be what other people want.

]]> By: Xian http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6973 Xian Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:16:58 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6973 Candide: Perhaps we are arguing semantics. I was using PUAs in the sense it's always been used in our discussions: Not referring to actual "Pick-up Artists" who come in all shapes and styles and obviously are a diverse group, but to self-proclaimed PUAs who blatantly self-promote to sell a service. I stand by what I said in that context. Candide: Perhaps we are arguing semantics. I was using PUAs in the sense it’s always been used in our discussions: Not referring to actual “Pick-up Artists” who come in all shapes and styles and obviously are a diverse group, but to self-proclaimed PUAs who blatantly self-promote to sell a service.

I stand by what I said in that context.

]]> By: jaehwan http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6970 jaehwan Mon, 04 Aug 2008 03:01:33 +0000 http://www.thefighting44s.com/archives/2008/08/02/epic-fail-the-saga-of-pua-dimitri-the-lover-and-olga/#comment-6970 Shades, Okay, cool. Shades,

Okay, cool.

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