Epic Fail: The Saga of PUA Dimitri the Lover and Olga
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On Facebook, director Michael Kang posted a video called “Douchebag Phone Message,” which consisted of two cell phone messages. I LOLed when I heard the messages and figured, maybe everyone could use a laugh. You can listen to the message here, or you can watch the lip synched reenactments by Eric Anderson.
Message 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ83use8YE8
Oh, noes! There’s a second message, from a guy who’s “a complete catch…who has nothing wrong with him”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7epDIrJImU
It gets even better: Dimitri the Lover is a Toronto-based former medical doctor and a current PUA guru.
Some highlights from that article:
“People do not understand the benign, positive, healthy nature of our meetings,” he insisted to the Sun.
“I adore women,” said his e-mail, in which he referred to his meetings as a “community service” where he helps shy and sexually inhibited men meet and have relations with women.
His website suggests otherwise.
“Learn the secret physical, verbal and psychological techniques used by Dimitri the Lover to seduce, pleasure and sexually enslave women,” says one of his program outlines.
Or this: “A man’s ‘basic operating system’ is composed of ‘rapist’ and ‘murderer’ programs which have been hard-wired into his brain.
“If there were no laws within society, the man would be constantly jumping women on the street.”
DESCRIBED AS ‘SLUTS’
Women are repeatedly referred to as “sluts” and his website is filled with immature and juvenile sexual references and animations.
“I have no issues with co-operating in the writing of an article in that the Toronto Real Men have nothing to hide,” Dimitri wrote in his e-mail to the Sun.
“Although I am a perverted sex pig, I am the most non-misogynistic man you will ever meet.
I wonder if he’s still very single.
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Xian
5:58 pm | Aug 02, 2008I tried but I couldn’t get through the first minute of the message.
What guys should learn from it is that PUAs absolutely suck at what they do, but are extremely assertive.
If you aren’t a complete ass, but are confident and assertive, you will be much more successful than the so-callled “PUAs”.
jaehwan
6:21 pm | Aug 02, 2008I’m not sure if this post was in response to my last post–could be just a coincidence. But if it was a response, I’m not sure what one has to do with another. APB, who is certainly much more aggressive and less sensitive than others, isn’t guilty of sexual misconduct on the ethical level. There are different kinds of PUAs–listening to these conversations and saying that “PUA’s suck at what they do” is kind of like saying that Catholic priests can’t keep their pants on because of something a few priests happened to do.
While I was in NY, I learned that some of these PUA’s met women on their first PUA outing and have been dating the same woman ever since. Some of them still remain quite shy, but they’ve learned to overcome it.
I’ll be the first to say that I disagree with a lot of the innuendos on APB’s site–and I did say so during my roundtable with him–but even if we disagree on the form it takes (or the way in which some people use the teachings), I think the concept of “teaching” Asian men better ways of coping with their situation is one that deserves serious consideration. Hell, of course it’s low brow, but don’t low brow types also need help?
VibeDaddy
7:26 pm | Aug 02, 2008That’s funny as hell, but self-proclaimed PUA wannabes are a dime a dozen nowadays. I hadn’t even heard of this clown until now.
Makulita
12:57 am | Aug 03, 2008… It still kills me you used “epic fail”.
:D
evil_FUX
3:20 am | Aug 03, 2008Hahahah genius post. I love how the guy even says, “my approach.” Even better is the second message where he sounds all annoyed.
THX1138
12:08 pm | Aug 03, 2008Well, instead of using expensive PUA programs, I think the following video would be much more beneficial in boosting the dating self-confidence of some AA guys.
It’s a musical homage to Asian dudes everywhere….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWAfbxXxbC8
Xian
12:33 pm | Aug 03, 2008Fair enough, change my first response to say, “All the self-proclaimed PUAs I’ve ever encountered are very good at what they do, provided that ‘what they do’ refers to ‘bilking hapless men out of their money by teaching them to misogynists’ and not ‘actually teaching someone how to building successful interactions with their gender of preference’.”
I have yet to met/encounter/read about a PUA who actually builds their clients’ skills in a lasting, healthy way. And if you are trying to get from LA to Seattle, me giving you ride to Hartford, CT is not helpful.
nightshade
1:30 pm | Aug 03, 2008Jae, this post details a saga of epic fail. It’s OK to laugh–it has nothing to do with APB or your post.
Candide
7:41 pm | Aug 03, 2008To Xian and the rest: the reason why you haven’t heard of other types of PUAs - you know, the ones who aren’t like Dimitri and whomever you guys like to make fun of - is because:
- Negative news sell.
- You already have a prejudice against PUA without really knowing what it’s about. Hint: reading a few sensationalised materials in mainstream media doesn’t count.
- Therefore, you wouldn’t be able to recognize other types of PUAs.
Xian, you’re saying that PUAs absolutely suck at what they do. You must be a member of “the community” then, right?
jaehwan
11:01 pm | Aug 03, 2008Shades,
Okay, cool.
Xian
12:16 am | Aug 04, 2008Candide: Perhaps we are arguing semantics. I was using PUAs in the sense it’s always been used in our discussions: Not referring to actual “Pick-up Artists” who come in all shapes and styles and obviously are a diverse group, but to self-proclaimed PUAs who blatantly self-promote to sell a service.
I stand by what I said in that context.
Candide
1:32 am | Aug 04, 2008Some PUAs who are selling a service are pretty damn good at what they do. There are some hacks, but not all of them are.
My point is that you are obviously not in the community and have not studied it. I think you should keep an open mind on this, especially:
The PUA scene ain’t exactly on popular media, and besides, “a lasting, healthy way” is based on personal perception. Yours might not be what other people want.
nottyboy
11:18 am | Aug 04, 2008Hey Xian,
What do you consider healthy? Any specific examples of things you consider harmful as far as what you consider “PUA” teachings?
My bad if you’ve discussed that before.
-Notty
Xian
10:25 pm | Aug 04, 2008I don’t want to spend time in the community. That’s like saying that I haven’t spent enough time with white supremacists to get to know them.
I’m happy to reexamine some of the wonderful people in this community if you will direct me to someone who’s not a prick. Since I’m completely wrong in thinking that’s a tiny minority, it should be easy.
Going to APB’s page:
I think the general tone that pick-up is a competitive rather than collaborative exercise is damaging. Same for the blatant objectification of women. When I see two guys roll in with 40 girls, I think, “Are they actually interacting in any interesting way?” What are we still into owning other human beings to show power. That’s a shame.
He crosses “Good DNA” with “Good in bed”. More objectification. Holding up of blondness as indication of value.
Listen to some of the testimonials: some guy who got a handjob from a lesbian because she was jealous. Some dude in a foursome. Blah blah blah.
Now raise your hand if you think a decent percentage of women would be impressed by these stories…
A reminder–this is a homoerotic festival of self-promotion to sell a product.
Candide
4:25 am | Aug 05, 2008Xian, since you’ve already formed such a strong opinion by studying one PUA, despite your sarcastic request, let’s not waste each other’s time with a certainly fruitless discussion.
Xian
8:37 am | Aug 05, 2008No sarcasm there. I wasted 5 minutes of my life reading that crap. If you unicornish good PUAs do exist, you had your chance to move from hollow rhetoric to substance.
later.
Heyyu
11:43 am | Aug 05, 2008You know what, these PUA’s are not really doing anything that hasn’t been done before. Humans have been mating for thousands of years. There are no new tricks. Human nature hasn’t really changed much. What the PUA’s emphasize is what most every guy should know through common sense (but it’s harder to do in reality): Brush off rejection and move on to the next girl (in other words, the more women you approach, the more one might show interest), and be confident/assertive/funny without being a doormat (which our ancestors thousands of years could have told you as well). The difference is that back before the industrial age our ancestors were out toiling in fields trying to get food for the women & children. They weren’t sitting around on a computer wondering, “Why can’t I get women?” They just did it, and without this modern advice of pumping iron at the gym & all this other ridiculous crap.
nottyboy
2:19 pm | Aug 05, 2008Do you mean competitive as in man vs man, or woman vs man?
I think you’re referring to this entry in APB’s blog: . Specifically, these paragraphs:
I’m not saying that you’re wrong, but all I see in that paragraph is a blurb explaining Cialdini’s “Social Proof” concept, and tying it in with Mystery’s pseudo-evolutionary-psych stuff about how women look for replication value. I don’t want to cite the whole blog entry, but I just couldn’t find anything in there that implied owning other humans; they’re just showing up with a bunch of girls because it makes them look popular.
I also fail to see where the objectification is happening. All the guy is saying is that being seen with beautiful women gets you noticed by other women.
Let me turn the question around: Would a decent percentage of women have a problem with the fact that a guy was in a foursome or got a handjob from a jealous lesbian?
I can understand maybe having a problem with the style of communication in the blog. It is meant to sell workshops that supposedly teach a guy how to get laid consistently.
Honestly, even if someone provided a link to a real player, most people on this site would still dismiss it, mainly because it’s not a lifestyle of which you approve. I doubt that you would find any common ground in how you view people’s nature.
nightshade
2:39 pm | Aug 05, 2008Why did the joys of an epic fail turn into a PUA devotee penis measuring contest? Why?
JUST ENJOY THE EPIC FAIL!