the answer is a crucial issue for all feminists and is two-fold. asian-american women (and more importantly, white men) are bombarded with images of what asian sexuality is. the predominance of asian porn on the internet, the orientalist notions of exotic women of the east in literature and the essentialist delegation of an asian women’s face to the domain of sex in film are a constant media perpetuation of the age-old myth in america - asian women are submissive whores. and while certainly women of other races are viewed sexually, the association of asian women and sex in the broader culture is nearly universal and complete. “me love you long time” has a particular resonance here - there is no equivalent for black or hispanic women.

and generally in these media and cultural portrayals, asian women are denied individual beauty or a broader womenhood. they are presented solely as submissive “faces” represented only by sexuality, or some derivative thereof. with their individual beauty denied, their sexiness is apparent only because they are asian i.e. “that’s a sexy asian”. this essentialist notion is the most damning as a form of cultural oppression.

the question now is how feminists of other races have been able to move on, but asian-american feminists are still confronting the issue of sex. it seems to me, obvious. the general culture still presents asian-american females based on their sexuality. in films such as “the last samurai”, the asian women is still solely the prize of the white man, who won her hand in marriage a.k.a. sexuality by killing her husband. it doesn’t matter that he’s a “foreigner” and those cultural rules don’t apply to him. it is this “traditional american fantasy”, which since the 1930’s has been presented to american audiences in film and novels that has laid the groundwork for the further dehumanizing sexualization of the rampant asian porn market, which is generally served with some byline like “these submissive orientals will please you long time”. i won’t even mention mail-order brides. i dread the day when my kids google the word asian.

so, overall, i’d have to say that it’s that asian-american feminists have not properly addressed the systemic problems with asian-american sexuality in a sufficiently public way. and while the general culture is slowly being exposed to asian-american women in less sexual contexts (reporters, representations depicted by other asians), the asian sexuality subtext in alive and kicking, and generally over rides those benign representations. it’s no surprise that memoirs of a geisha was written by an old white man, or that mike meyers has twins “fuk u” and “fuk mi” as his sexual desire, because with a history rich in subjecting asian women to solely sexual positions, americans easily understand the stereotype.

just my two (and a half) cents.

However, it should be understood that the men can’t be leaders of such groups because they can’t completely represent female interests. It’s similar to D’s argument that a person in an inter-racial relationship isn’t suitable as a leader for a race-based organisation because if they want to be pro-active about racial issues, well, they’re not practising what they’re preaching.

I wholeheartedly agree that men should not be leaders of women’s organizations.

People of color in IRs should not be restricted from leading race-based organizations. Applying this standard to gender-based organizations would require their leaders to stop dating/marrying men.

Now, while I can empathise with something like the favouring-boys-over-girls bit (I come from a traditional Chinese family myself and my brother is the only son), I find that Asian-American feminists tend to make that sort of topic the main thrust of an argument and focus on the “I’m a victim!” part when other feminists of colour have already moved on or made peace with it.

However, you can’t quite compare a family’s treatment of boys and girls with the treatment of Asian-American woman and men in media, politics or the workplace. Those arise from very different circumstances and are dependent on many other outside factors as well.

Before I forget, it’s AWESOME to have you back!

I was leaning more towards xian’s side on that IR debate (I think it was jaehwan and xian vs. D and mao), but I agree with you 110% on the feminism thing. It’s funny because whenever I pressure…um…certain “Asian American feminists” on the roots of their movement, they always reference Gary Okihiro, who is a guy! I’ll quote said feminist:

These self-identified non-feminists assume that feminism is a cultish fervor over White men and Whiteness that cultivates an assault on Asian men as universally sexist and unworthy, when in point of fact, the ideas of Asian American feminism is best defined by Gary Okihiro’s “When and Where I Enter”, which argued against the patriarchy of minority communities and cautioned that Asian American equality could only be achieved by the joint elimination of both racism and sexism, both inter- and intra-racially.

Ummm…does anyone see some irony in having an “Asian American feminist” movement founded by…a guy? Moreover, isn’t is suspect that she uses his definition of “Asian American feminism” to talk about how bad Asian men are, as opposed to what Asian women can do? So basically it’s a feminism that doesn’t focus on women? (That’s according to what Okihiro says. How it is actually practiced mirrors what you mention above.)

So I agree with you 110%. We should participate, but we shouldn’t take highly visible roles as feminists.

However, it should be understood that the men can’t be leaders of such groups because they can’t completely represent female interests. It’s similar to D’s argument that a person in an inter-racial relationship isn’t suitable as a leader for a race-based organisation because if they want to be pro-active about racial issues, well, they’re not practising what they’re preaching.

Therefore, while men are welcome and should participate in feminist groups to gain better understanding, leadership or any other highly visible role would be counter-productive for the group.

As for your question on how Asian-American men can help, I can`t give you that much advice. All I can do is echo some of Dialectic`s previous thoughts: be a person who is empathetic, understanding and smart enough to sift out the bullshit, appreciate the Good, the True and the Beautiful in life, and don`t take things too seriously sometimes.

This is a hard one. All my life, until today, really, I was thinking that it was patriarchal for Asian men to get involved with any kind of Asian American feminism. I thought Asian men joining an Asian women’s movement would be like white people joining Malcolm X; it would brown the black coffee and make it lukewarm.

However, I now think that Asian men have to be proactive. Why? Because I now think that Asian men’s destinies are tied up with Asian women’s. (Lest I get slammed by any of the AA feminists which Jade describes above: No, I’m not talking about destiny which comes from marriage to…gasp…Asian men, and no, I’m not trying to control your sexuality. Date whomever you want. Seriously.) I think Asian men and women rise and fall together. Therefore, it is a part of Asian American male self-interest to take part in Asian American women’s affairs, and vice-versa, Asian American women need to take part in Asian American men’s affairs.

Which basically means–if my thinking is sound–that you need to get involved with organizing. Proactive organizing.

So Aznbro, if you’re interested, stick around. Let’s think this one through together.