In general the article wasn’t well received by the students at Daewon. They felt that it cast their efforts in too negative of a light, especially the part about school romances. haha

Haha…well, the American media likes to throw stuff like that in from time to time! When I first went to Japan, I was surprised by how alive the people were. And why wouldn’t they be alive??? It’s funny how our media sometimes perceives other groups of people. So there is an unintentional, misguided bias that somehow comes out on this side of the Pacific!

That’s also a pretty impressive stat about the AP classes. I actually think it’s much better that way. With AP classes, students study for the test. I would assume (though I don’t know) that not having AP classes would encourage kids to learn the subject better and study for the test on their own time.

By the way, referencing something that was said earlier in this Daewon conversation–I really would like to visit a place like Daewon someday. Not just to learn more about their SAT scores :), but also to learn more about where your students and teachers come from. It really is fascinating to learn about how things are done in different cultures.

Something that was mentioned in the nytimes.com article and does reflect the truth is that many of our students also take the various Advanced Placement exams (in English) and score perfect scores. There are no AP classes offered at our school currently and, for the most part, those students self-study for the exams.

In general the article wasn’t well received by the students at Daewon. They felt that it cast their efforts in too negative of a light, especially the part about school romances. haha

That was exactly the question/possibility that I was trying to raise when I said that I would NOT be surprised if the valedictorian of Daewon beat the valedictorian of Exeter. It was also my question in post #10 about Daewon not being an international school. I could understand if there are a few super-achievers, maybe even a significant amount of superachievers, but I couldn’t figure out how the grand average were doing so well in a non-native language; not because I thought they were less intelligent, but because most come from a non-English background and are pulled from the Korean populace for many talents, not just English and/or language. I guess we were talking only about the average of those who took the test, and it was just a small percentage.

Your explanation makes total sense. Thanks so much for shedding light on my question! I’m so glad you came to our board! Now I no longer have to stay up late at night thinking about this!

The undocumented truth that is not being told in the article is that not all the students at Daewon take the SAT (since many of them have no interest in attending American universities.) The students who DO take the test definitely deserve the recognition they got for their achievement, but it’s a small percentage of the total student body. Also most of those kids (if not a vast majority) have lived in some kind of English speaking country (if not the USA) for a significant percentage of their life.

it doesn’t bother me because everyone is entitled to their opinion. the issue here is not of disagreement but your refusal to acknowledge your bias and prejudice against asians.

I’d have said the exact same thing if the article was writing about kids in France or Spain or Nigeria. It’s got nothing to do with the fact that they’re Asian but that they live and are from a non-English speaking country. But I didn’t mean to demean anyone in any way.

jesus christ, dude, even your example with the rappers is so fucking ridiculous. do you honestly think that these privileged, hard-studying kids in korea would want to throw all that work away to be rappers?????

Most of these prospective Asian American rappers and performers come from middle class backgrounds. Even that guy Lee Hom Wang comes from a privileged background. Actually, one of the top rappers in Japan comes from a privileged International School background. He raps in English and Japanese. I don’t think he threw anything away–he probably has more bank than the entire 44’s crew put together.

i can’t waste my time on this bullshit anymore. i really used to assume that asian americans and transnational asians could do really productive shit together, but uncle phil on fresh prince was right. if you assume, it makes an ass out of u and me.

I hope we still can, but obviously it’s not going to be smooth sailing the whole time, given the fact that we live so far apart and have different experiences.

It’s clear that my statement was offensive to both you and nightshade, and I know both of you are intelligent and reasonable people. I retract my statement without any ifs, ands, or buts. I’m really sorry for offending you, and I’ll stop.

You’re getting to the point where you’re pretty much saying, “I’m sorry you’re offended.”

You really have to stop arguing here and actually try to see the point. There’s no defense to mount–you were in the wrong. I thought the statement was fucked up too.

jesus christ, dude, even your example with the rappers is so fucking ridiculous. do you honestly think that these privileged, hard-studying kids in korea would want to throw all that work away to be rappers????? you can’t even fucking compare. i’m just flabbergasted: it’s like if i said how come no exeter kids are rappers, is it because their command of english is too crappy for them to flow properly?

lord have mercy. i give up.

i can’t waste my time on this bullshit anymore. i really used to assume that asian americans and transnational asians could do really productive shit together, but uncle phil on fresh prince was right. if you assume, it makes an ass out of u and me.

good luck, guys. you’ll need it.

sigh…i accept your apology but…you’re still not getting why i find your statements patronizing.

Hey Mao,

I see what you’re saying on a logical level, but I don’t feel it. You’re right. I’m in the same boat as Xian: I can see what you’re saying, but I don’t read it on the same level. And I respect you way too much to pretend that I do. Point taken on Spelman vs. Harvard, but I’m coming from a different angle. Since I realize that those Korean kids are just as privileged as the Exeter kids. I’m not looking at privilege; I’m looking at experience.

This is the angle that I’m coming from:

A couple years ago, Park Jin-Young, the owner and founder of Korean media conglomerate JYP, was interviewed by a newspaper. He was holding these auditions in Los Angeles for Asian Americans who wanted to become pop stars in Korea. When asked why he would come all the way to America to recruit Asian stars, he said that Asian kids in America knew how to rap. He said that they’ve been raised on hip hop and R and B, and they tend to be much smoother than the Asian kids in Asia.

I don’t know if it’s just a marketing ploy to bring Asian Americans to Asia and capitalize on cachet that we bring because of Western colonialism, but the explanation makes sense. Especially if he’s looking for people to rap in English (which Korean pop-stars sometimes do), one would think he would find more candidates here, and the increased competition would yield a higher standard. The sample size is much bigger here, plus Asian Americans are exposed to R and B and hip hop on every level every time they turn on the radio.

Daewon vs. Exeter is much the same way. Kids at Exeter see the U.S. political debates, and they are exposed to the way people talk to one another. Plus, they’re pulled from a much larger pool of English speaking applicants. It has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with experience and numbers.

Now is Park Jin Young a racist or a colonized lap dog for believing that certain Asian American experiences contribute to a higher likelihood of greater rapping ability? I don’t know, but his explanation makes sense. One would expect people who live in an English speaking country to rap better English than those who don’t, just because of the numbers and experiences.

you know…this is seriously my final, despairing volley because i honestly don’t know how to explain this otherwise. i really do feel like i’m explaining white privilege to the same white people who pollute sites like this. i’m not an evangelist, so if you really can’t see what my point is, then so be it.

sigh…i really wonder if there’s any hope for you people sometimes.

Don’t be mad at me. We have tons of other stuff that we agree on 100%. You’ve explained other things to me, and I’ve seen them. In this case, I don’t see it as you do, probably–and this is where I can admit some bias–because I was not raised in an English speaking environment within an Asian country.

So can I just say that I currently don’t see it, but that given exposure to international schools in Asia, I someday might? Maybe that’s why privileged white people don’t see things too. I don’t see it because I literally haven’t seen it.

“I’ve never been to an International School, and I was just questioning. I don’t think that Americans are better, though it may have come out that way.”

it’s the fact that you questioned in the first place and then proceeded to defend your questioning.

look, let me try one last time to explain. suppose we were talking about a historically black college like spelman and harvard, and it turns out that students in spelman outscored harvard students consistently.

your reaction is equivalent to: “how could it be?? they’re black! they don’t have the same privileges as white people! their parents speak ebonics! they live in the ghetto!”

do you see now?

yes, it’s fine to question, but you should be aware of the prejudice behind your questioning.

you know…this is seriously my final, despairing volley because i honestly don’t know how to explain this otherwise. i really do feel like i’m explaining white privilege to the same white people who pollute sites like this. i’m not an evangelist, so if you really can’t see what my point is, then so be it.

sigh…i really wonder if there’s any hope for you people sometimes.