“She would have felt it more if you were white”
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Last week I was sitting at a lunch table with a few other people from my working group: one Jewish-Canadian woman, “Gillian,” one “white” Canadian woman, “Tracy,” one Romanian-Canadian man, “Alexandru,” and one “white” Canadian man (of Dutch descent, but had no real connection to actual “Dutchness”), “John.”
We were having a discussion on the reportedly rising “Culture of Deafness.”
This refers to a rising sentiment among North American deaf people to be proud of their deafness, to be confident and proud of themselves, and to view their deafness not as a “disability” but as a culture, a lifestyle.
Gillian and I agreed with the sentiment and the reasons behind it, and in this respect, it’s not that different from cries of “Asian Pride!” or “Black Beauty!” which have come from ethnic minority groups.
At the same time, however, what has apparently happened, I assume (and I hope) on a small scale, is that some deaf couples, if they have a child together who also has a hearing problem, believe that it’s okay, and that it is their choice, their right, not to give their child treatment so that their child will fully appreciate and be able to fully participate in the “Deaf Culture.”
Gillian and I had an issue with that. In our “opinion,” deafness is a disability; you have a higher chance of being hit by a truck or attacked unawares when you’re deaf. You’ve lost a major sensory capability, and the perpetuation of that loss, when it can be prevented, is, in my view, irresponsible and dangerous. Am I trying to take away the deaf parents’ fundamental right to choose? (I’ll discuss this in another post.)
My companions, being the happy white people that they are, tried to draw a comparision between deafness and race. Alexandru, innocently enough, asked me that if I had a choice, if we had some sort of hyper-advanced reconstructive surgery, would I choose to be white, because of the increased opportunity it would afford me? Would I rather have grown up white?
My serious response was that the two situations were NOT analogous. My joking response was, “I would have made love to a lot more women if I had!”
John’s immediate response:
“And they would have felt it more, too!”
John is of course happily married to a Chinese woman.
He’s sitting approximately 10 ft. away from me in another cubicle right now. He’s educated, getting a law degree, the son of a diplomat, and so rich he owns a house, a boat, an $8,000 fridge, a Benz, buys custom-made jewelry for his wife, and is looking to buy property in Belize for his projected retirement at the ripe old age of 43.
This is no uneducated, culturally-isolated working-class joe who doesn’t appreciate the meaning or implications of these sort of comments.
He is going to go home to his wife tonight, to whom I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and assume doesn’t know he makes these jokes, and they’re going to have the same grand old time they have every night. (He was holding her back on the fridge, by the way. She wanted a $24,000 restaurant-grade one with a glass door, but he thought that was excessive.)
“She would have felt it more if you were white”
That’s a pretty good joke, huh?
In the not so distant past, several American radio DJs, black and white, have made some comments about Asians. I’m told a particular DJ felt the overwhelming desire to comment on what little dicks we Asian males have. He was of course shouted down by the wonderful advocates, taught the error of his ways, and made to apologize. Sponsors pulled their support, and we felt gratified in our righteous anger.
These advocates, many of whom are female, and at least some of whom support the notion that they can date or marry whoever they want, whenever they want, even when they are representing Asian females and males, and even when it’s a white man they’re with, they told this radio DJ what he was and wasn’t allowed to say.
I thought free speech was a fundamental right?
Or do fundamental rights have limits? Or do they only have limits for other people? Or do they only have limits when the exercise of those rights hurts you?
These advocates can do whatever they want with their personal lives when they are public representatives, but this radio DJ can’t make one public joke in his capacity as a private citizen, a private employee of a private network? The last I checked, he wasn’t representing me, or any aspect of the public, in any way. Hm.
Advocates: peoples’ perceptions shouldn’t and don’t matter to you, you say? That’s not what you said when the DJ played his tune. Peoples’ perceptions mattered to you very much. But do they only matter when it’s convenient to you? “I can say and do what I want when I want, but you can’t!” That’s what you’re telling the world.
“She would have felt it more if you were white.”
I don’t know what the radio DJ’s exact joke was. It’s safe to assume that it was along the same lines as the joke I heard at the lunch table. Honestly, I doubt the DJ’s audience would have found it that hilarious. After all, the joke is pretty old. They probably got a chuckle out of it and moved on.
But you know the joke that you advocates don’t get? The one you keep fresh every time you speak?
When you get off the podium, when you walk back into the arms of your white lovers, you’re telling the same joke.
It’s another version of the same punchline.
And white people? Those ignorant white people who only got a chuckle out of the radio DJ’s comments? Those ignorant white people whose perceptions you only care about when it’s convenient?
Those ignorant white people are getting a great, big, fat belly laugh out of your version. Your version of the joke is so much better. It’s okay when they tell it with their words. But when we tell it with our lives? They’re laughing so much it hurts.
Do you hear that? That’s the sound of the biggest little dick joke that’s ever been told.
You’re telling it.
And I feel it more when you’re Asian.
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kwak76
12:49 pm | Jul 20, 2007That’s fucked up that happened at the meeting. I still don’t understand why it so hard for some people to see that your life style reflects who you are. If you stand for Asian causes and are proud of it . It makes sense that your personal life should reflect it with an Asian partner. If your partner is not of Asian descent than it goes agianst Asian pride. It ’s not hard to put together.
maloy
1:12 pm | Jul 20, 2007nice post, D.
nightshade
2:11 pm | Jul 20, 2007Great personal essay–perfect companion to the last post.
JadeDragon
3:55 pm | Jul 20, 2007You always articulate your thoughts well, D. And buying a $8000 fridge is still one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
SamuraiJack
9:13 pm | Jul 20, 2007My response to that is usually with pure fact and logic. It isn’t true that white people have bigger dicks. Dick size is proportional to height and height is proportional to nutrition. Asians have just begun the upward slope on nutrition as well as (for better or worse) hormone-fed livestock.
Dialectic
9:42 pm | Jul 20, 2007I appreciate what you’re saying, SJ, and I agree and have said so myself, but that’s really not the point.
Vahz
12:34 pm | Jul 21, 2007What annoys the hell out of me is that so many defenders of AF/WM couplings state that it’s her personal choice. That’s fine and dandy but these same individuals never factor in how other non-Asians view this pairing, specifically white men. It’s one of extremely ignorance and, dare I say it, naivety.
I got an experiment for everyone. We should have a white interviewer ask random white men what they think of Asian women with white men? Let’s see if they report back that 1.) Oh, it’s the Asian females choice and they just happened to fall in love regardless of color or 2.) if they give off the impression that Asian men are inferior to white men.
Let me issue an example; I work in the investment banking group of a major financial firm and, suffice to say, it’s under extreme stress and is never a politically correct environment. In fact, I’d state that it’s a pretty hostile working enviroment but you’ll be surprised how many people would stay here given the money everyone is making.
I’ve hear sexist and racist statements run through my office on nearly a daily basis.
On black people: “Man, I know all about them when I lived in Jersey. They’re way too emotional about problems and never ever think logically. That’s why they never get anything done. It’s like their brain lacks logical reasoning.”
On women: “What’s her problem? They always want something for nothing. They’re like flies.”
On Asian women: “Getting a blowjob is easy. It’ll just cost you an ear of corn and 25 cents. Sex is a bit more expensive; 4 apples and 65 cents.”
These statements were just uttered this past weak. Now, mind you, these aren’t blue collar workers but ivy-league educated and rich white collar employees of which many are managers.
I’ve had my Asianness and masculinity constantly put on trial on nearly a monthly basis and let’s just say that the subject of Asian women with white men come up often to “prove” the situation.
People who think this doesn’t have an external effect on Asian men are, well, extremely ignorant or lived a very sheltered life. Many Asian women don’t care because, hey, it doesn’t affect them.
From my experiences here and after hearing all these remarks directed at Asian women, I’ve learned that their sex appeal is actually viewed as whorish and made me understand their perspective that white society hasn’t actually treated them any better than Asian men.
Dialectic
4:33 pm | Jul 21, 2007Ah, an i-banker! I’ve known several of you myself. Stop dropping $500 a night at the strip clubs for god’s sake! Good for you, by the way, for getting such a ridiculously high-paying job.
Yeah, those sorts of comments are exactly what I’d expect from the i-banking environment, particularly an American one.
This is just my feeling, which might be wrong, but I get the impression that a lot of white dudes married to Asian women feel faintly (or obviously) superior to Asian males, and Asians as a whole. I’ve seen it myself, and it’s particularly annoying when they think that they can’t be racist just ’cause they’re married to an AF.
Since I’m able to chat with people pretty well and can get on with whoever I want, I can remember a few times when, thinking that I’m at a certain level of intelligence or understanding, and more importantly, that I can sound and act totally white, white guys tell me how crazy their wife’s Asian family is, or make all these observations on Asians without thinking similarly funny things about whites, and the like. What can you do, you’re the top dog, that’s gonna make you think a certain way.
Your last paragraph sums up the part of the feminist argument I agree with, that really, they haven’t been treated better. The difference is in how it manifests, and this explains why some AMs become a little “bitter”: if they internalize the racism, their self-hate manifests as a rejection of their own Asiananess and AMs, but they still have access to sex and media representation (albeit in a bad, racist way), whereas it doesn’t happen to nearly the same extent for AMs at this point. (Nobody knows who the hell Frank Chin and Terry Woo are, no one can actually name Daniel Dae Kim and they just know “the Korean guy from Lost who can’t speak English,” and I ain’t ever seen the male version of Connie Chung or Lucy Liu.)
mndeg
9:00 pm | Jul 21, 2007“My serious response was that the two situations were NOT analogous. My joking response was, “I would have made love to a lot more women if I had!””
Sorry, but you set yourself up. You displayed weakness and he took advantage of it. If you failed to call him out after what he said you just failed some more.
evil_FUX
3:25 am | Jul 22, 2007^If you read the Interracial dating feature you’d see in the comments that he did call that guy out, and wtf, how does he get blamed for creating an alleged “preemptive” strike?
Dialectic
5:37 am | Jul 22, 2007Mndeg, I actually hit him back by making a comment about flaccid and lumpy white cocks. It was fine. “Alexandru” even diffused the situation by saying, “Just because John and I have flaccid and lumpy cocks doesn’t mean all white guys do!” And John also said to Tracy right after that he’d gone too far.
And Mndeg, try not to be an asshole from now on.
As for that sort of humor, I don’t think that was a huge set-up; also, I make Russell Peters type jokes all the time, and people generally enjoy them.
A guy can be an asshole no matter what you say, kinda like you!
Veryangry
4:19 am | Sep 20, 2007Vahz, if I ever met those guys you mentioned on the street or anywhere really, I would not hesitate to slam dunk whatever I can onto their face. One drunken comment, KAPOW! Lights out baby.
ycformosa
5:13 am | Dec 26, 2007I have a story to tell. I worked for a mortgage company in IL. USA. Most people in this company are white and Arabs.
Here was this Greek American who moved from Greece when he was kid. He was from Grete Island Greece. One day I have a conversation with him with some people around us. I mentioned to him that I always want visit Greek island. He suggest me I should visit Greece in August because there will be lots of blue-eye, blonde hair Swedish girls visiting Greece. Then suddenly he looked at me-liked two seconds and lowed his voice, saying the phrase I did not exactly sure he used, but I did know what he meant. He meant that he was not sure that Swedish girls would like Asian guys. Then there was a silent, nobody said anything, one of guys around us would tried to break the awkward moment; saying “Hung would be OK”. I was speechless. This is how the white men see us. I would nine of ten white men have this kind views.
Fuck them
chocolatebutterfly
2:49 pm | Jan 07, 2008I am so pissed because I wrote a reponse to this post at like 3am this morning and for some reason when I hit submit it said I needed to be logged in to make a comment. O well..From reading this article I felt a few things one the stereotypical racism that still exists in this country regardless of the level of education. Typical of the ” I am not racist I have black friends” comment that has become a staple in the Black American Culture. As an Black person grwoing up I have been privy to many stereotypes and witnessed countless acts of racism,and when people are called to the carpet on it the ways they try to justify or ask why are you offended?. As a woman I think his comment towards you wa just stupid and would be safe in assuming that he is King Of the Small Penises hence why he purchases all of the superficial things to please his wife. I have dated men of various nationalities and small penises are UNIVERSAL!! Also I think that the way AF are viewed by American Men both Black and White are as subserviant waifs who can be easily controlled. Which is screwed up in itself. The fact that you would choose a woman based on the sole fact that you can control her is sad. Whether this is a misconception or not it is a horrible thing to expect from someone based on their culture. I think the fact that you didn’t punch him dead in the eye is commendable I am not sure I could have been so calm had this happened to me…. Crazy! Thanks for sharing
NICENURSE
4:01 pm | Feb 04, 2008Dialectic, I’m sorry you were subjected to such ignorance. Unfortunately that kind of thinking is here to stay. Minorities are just going to have to continue to rise above it. As far as AF/WM and AF/BM relationships go, I agree with some of ChocolateButterfly’s statment. I always here how that is the reason why these men hook up with AF. I am not saying that WM/BM are not attracted to AF. Whenever I hear men talking about asian women, They always talk about how submissive they are. I personally do not believe that. At least not for Asian American women. They tend to be pretty independent and don’t take shit off of anyone. I wish people could take you and just judge you on an individual level. Stop defining whole races of people by stereotypes. As far as big penis and small penis. I have said it before and I will say it again. No one race of men has a monopoly on big dicks.
valleydude
5:49 pm | Feb 20, 2008Speaking as YT with interracial relationship experience (all of them):
1. Yes, he probably does make those jokes in front of his wife. She might even find them funny in a perverse way. Lots of theories why (all on other threads), but yeah, she will find it insultingly funny, maybe. She might also say snarky things about his white relatives as well. However, work is not the place for that.
2. White guys who make these kind of jokes also tend to be hard on their own race as well (such as making fun of white trash wrestling fans). If not, well that’s pretty scummy and just outright racist. It’s good to know and remember no one’s perfect.
3. It really sucks to him to have made that joke to your face, unless this was the kind of over-the-top humor you guys normally do, and you tease him back in the same extreme way.
When white people do this (without some justification, like you making Canadian jokes about him or something) it shames us all. He wouldn’t have made the same kind of comment about watermellon to a black guy, right? So it was cowardly as well.
It is interesting that you know all of their detailed backgrounds — you’re a man after my own tastes. Do race, identity and ethnicity come up a lot as topics at work? Maybe it’s best to stay away from that so that no one’s feelings get hurt.
I do remember getting teased by Asian classmates about my Polish background when I was in Magnet school (mostly Asian student population), but I never bagged back about penile size. I don’t really remember bagging back at all. Maybe that’s why I’m angry too ;)
analogisnumberone
6:09 pm | Jul 03, 2008The white guy who makes jokes is a racist. Call him on it. Fight him if you have too. Life doesn’t have to be pleasant for him. The world is not his to profit from with his sellout Chinese wife. Being white is never a liability, so you have to make him suffer a little.
ShangriLa
12:57 am | Aug 03, 2008White people do think they are superior to other races. Extrapolate that further, and yes white guys do feel smug when they walk through Chinatown with that Asian girl with the big tits and round ass. Furthermore, they don’t feel in physical danger when they do so because most Asians are physically smaller than they are. None of this should be news to any of us. And by the way, Dialectic, you put yourself down first. You should ask yourself why you felt you needed to do that in front of all those white people. That would have been a better essay.
Dialectic
9:57 pm | Aug 04, 2008If you’re trying to imply that I have an inferiority complex, you’re a moron. I make jokes about all races and all people, including myself, all the time. Plus, I live in Toronto (as opposed to buttfuck, America) which produced Russell Peters, and good-natured race-based jokes are totally acceptable here.
You’re not making friends on the forum either, fyi.